House of Lords corruption claim from Lib Dem president
26 June 2012 Last updated at 12:58 BST
The Liberal Democrat president claimed the House of Lords was an "unbelievably undemocratic institution" and an "appalling system of institutionalised corruption".
Tim Farron claimed some Lords did not attend, and some turned up just to claim expenses, eat a meal and leave.
But Simon Hart MP claimed voters would wonder "what on earth are they doing" watching MPs debate changes to the second chamber at Westminster.
Mr Hart, a Conservative, said he was not against reform, but did not back elections, and claimed even the Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg said it was "not important".
Michelle Rhee, from the US education system, warned having two elected chambers would not automatically solve problems.