China's death row TV hit: Interviews Before Execution
In Henan Province, in central China, millions of people have been tuning in every week to watch an extraordinary talk show called Interviews Before Execution, in which a reporter interviews murderers condemned to death. The show ran for just over five years, until it was taken off air on Friday.
Every Monday morning, reporter Ding Yu and her team scoured court reports to find cases to cover on their programme. They had to move quickly, as prisoners in China can be executed seven days after they are sentenced.
To Western eyes the show's format may seem exploitative, but Ding disagrees.
"Some viewers may consider it cruel to ask a criminal to do an interview when they are about to be executed.
"On the contrary, they want to be heard," she says.
"Some criminals I interviewed told me: 'I'm really very glad. I said so many things in my heart to you at this time. In prison, there was never a person I was willing to talk to about past events.'"
End Quote Ding Yu
I witness the transition from life to death”
Interviews Before Execution was first broadcast on 18 November 2006 on Henan Legal Channel, one of 3,000 state-owned TV stations in China. Ding interviewed a prisoner every week until the programme was taken off air.
The move follows a handful of reports about the show in foreign media, which were triggered by a documentary to be screened on the BBC tonight and on PBS International in the near future.
The aim of Interviews Before Execution, the programme-makers say, was to find cases that would serve as a warning to others. The slogan at the top of every programme called for human nature to awaken and "perceive the value of life".
In China, 55 crimes carry the death penalty, from murder, treason and armed rebellion to bribery and smuggling. Thirteen other crimes, including VAT fraud, smuggling relics and credit fraud, were only recently removed from the list of capital offences.
Interviews Before Execution, however, focused exclusively on cases of violent murder.
Bullet or injection
- There are thought to be more executions than in any other country, although the exact number is a state secret
- There is no presumption of innocence in Chinese law and confessions are sometimes taken before the suspect has had access to a lawyer
- Convicted prisoners are killed by a single shot to the back of the head or by lethal injection inside a mobile execution truck
It never interviewed political prisoners or cases where the crime was in question, and the team received the Henan high court's consent in every case.
"Without their consent, our programme would end immediately," Ding told the BBC documentary team.
Broadcast every Saturday night, the programme was frequently rated one of Henan's top 10 shows, with nearly 40 million viewers out of the 100 million who live in the province.
It made Ding Yu a star, known to many as "Beauty with the Beasts".
If people failed to heed the warnings the programme offered, she says, then it was right that they should face the consequences.
"I feel sorry and regretful for them. But I don't sympathise with them, for they should pay a heavy price for their wrongdoing. They deserve it."
Many of the cases featured in the programme were motivated by money and one case in particular stands out for Ding.
The perpetrators were boyfriend and girlfriend - young, educated college graduates.
The couple planned to rob her grandparents but it went wrong and the young man, 27-year-old Zhang Peng, ended up killing them both.
"They are so young. They never had the chance to see this world, or to enjoy life, a career, work, and the love of family.
"They've made the wrong choice, and the price is their lives," Ding says.
But after more than 200 interviews, little surprises her.
"I've interviewed criminals even younger than that young student, some just 18 years old. That is the minimum age you can be sentenced to death."
Homosexuality is still a huge taboo in China, and when in 2008 the show covered the case of Bao Ronting, a gay man who murdered his mother, ratings soared.
It was the first time Ding had ever met an openly gay man.
"I had never come close to a gay man, so I really couldn't accept some of his practices, words and deeds.
"Though he was a man, he asked me in a very feminine tone, 'Do you feel awkward speaking to me?' Actually I felt very awkward," she recalls.
Find out more
- Interviews Before Execution is part of the latest This World series, broadcast on Monday 12 March at 23:20 GMT on BBC Two.
- Watch again on iPlayer (UK only) using the link.
She and her team made a further three episodes on the case of Bao Ronting and followed him until the day he was executed in November 2008.
During one of these meetings, Bao asked Ding: "Will I go to heaven?"
Remembering these words, she reflects: "I witness the transition from life to death."
Bao Ronting was paraded in an open top truck on the way to his execution with a placard around his neck, detailing his crime. The practice is illegal in modern China - but the law is not always observed.
Judge Lui Wenling, who worked closely with the programme-makers, says things are changing in the Chinese legal system.
"The present criminal policies in China are 'To kill less and cautiously' and 'Combining lenience and strictness'.
"It means, 'If the case is fit for lenient treatment, give it lenience,' and, 'If the case should be strictly treated, give it a strict punishment,'" he says.
Ding recently covered the case of Wu Yanyan, a young mother who murdered her husband after allegedly suffering years of abuse.
End Quote Judge Pan
Since the death sentence for criminals is itself a violent act, then we should abolish it”
She was initially sentenced to death for the murder. But since 2007, every execution verdict in China has to be approved by the Supreme Court, and in this case it took the view that the abuse provided mitigating circumstances.
The higher court kept returning the case to the local court until the death sentence was suspended.
Ding visited the prison with Wu Yanyan's daughter for an emotional reunion. If the young mother continues to behave well in prison, after two years she could ultimately be released - a small sign of changing attitudes in China.
Some senior figures in the justice system foresee more far-reaching reforms in the future, including Judge Pan, another judge who has worked closely with the programme.
"A life could end in the twinkling of an eye after a trial. I'd say this is also very cruel," she says.
"It's also a means of getting rid of evil deeds through an evil deed.
"Should we abolish the death penalty? Since the death sentence for criminals is itself a violent act, then we should abolish it. However, I don't think our country is ready yet.
"But in the future, it would be good to abolish it."