A Point of View: The Oxbridge interview

 
Trinity College, Cambridge

Mary Beard reflects on the purpose of the much-maligned Oxbridge interview and defends the "would you rather be an apple or a banana" school of questioning.

I am about to undergo a strange transformation. By this time next week, I will have ceased to be a decent, hard-working university teacher, attempting to educate and inspire the next generation.

Instead, if you believe all those press accounts, I shall have become a hide-bound, eccentric and slightly sadistic old don enjoying a few days humiliating some very bright and very nervous teenagers.

In other words, I shall be conducting Oxbridge interviews, posing all those unfair and silly questions that not even 27 A*s at GCSE could possibly prepare you for.

You'll find them listed with gleeful horror in the papers - "How do you know that California exists if you haven't been there?" and "Would you rather be an apple or a banana?"

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Mary Beard
  • A Point of View is on Fridays on Radio 4 at 20:50 GMT and repeated Sundays, 08:50 GMT
  • Mary Beard is a Professor of Classics at Cambridge and an author

A few weeks later, when we've made our decisions, there'll be the inevitable sequel - a front-page story about some impeccably qualified candidate (usually female and photogenic) who has been turned down thanks to utter incompetence on our part or outright discrimination.

The local MP will most likely be fighting her cause (out of a genuine sense of injustice, maybe - but Oxbridge-bashing is also a favourite sport across all political parties, and a reliable route to a headline or two, in the silly season after Christmas). Before long, there will be demands that these hopeless amateur interviewers get some training or that the process be taken out of our hands altogether.

Simon Hughes was suggesting earlier this year that interviews should simply be handed over to professional administrators - as if the choice of students to read Latin and Greek, for example, would best be made by people who knew not a word of the languages concerned. (And quite why university interviews are thought to be inherently unfair, whereas no-one bats an eyelid about job interviews, beats me.)

The good news, though, is that this media caricature is exactly that - a caricature. And most of the scare-mongering is plain wrong (just for the record, Mr Hughes, we do have interview training). Inevitably, I - or we - make mistakes.

Apples and bananas Which would you rather be?

Nobody but an idiot would pretend that they had an error-proof way of choosing the "best" out of hundreds of perfectly qualified applicants - not for university or for anything. But interviews are a useful part of the process, and, whatever you read, they're really not full of those malevolently unanswerable questions like, "What happens when you drop an ant?".

OK, occasionally in the course of an interview I might bowl a googly. "What did the Romans wear under their togas?" is my equivalent of the "apple or banana" teaser. But actually it's to help, not to hinder, the interviewee. I usually pull it out as a last resort, when I've tried every other way of steering the candidate off her long, carefully-learnt speech about why Virgil (or Horace, or Tacitus, or whoever) is the best author the world has ever seen.

Look at it my way; my priority is to get the kids to talk themselves into a place, not talk themselves out of one. And as for those scandalous rejections, we know that it can feel very unfair to be turned down. But the headlines are only one side of the story. The local MP can say what they like - I cannot reveal the secrets of the interview room, beyond those platitudes, true as they are, about the intense competition.

But if these stories are so misleading, why do they live on? Partly because of the "Oxbridge myth". In real life, Oxford and Cambridge are two excellent universities, like many others in the country. They are full of highly intelligent, hard-working and quite ordinary students and teachers.

In our collective cultural imagination, however, Oxbridge means the dreaming spires - a kind of massive Bullingdon Club where rich undergraduates still flaunt their boaters and blazers, and dotty dons get sozzled every night on the college port (while hoping to avoid the Inspector Morse-style murders in the quad).

Of course, for most of us, this isn't remotely how it is (I've not tasted port for 30 years and, apart from bicycle theft, the crime rate in Cambridge is low). But truth isn't the point here. The "myth of Oxbridge" has its own momentum. It's a quirky fiction - fuelled by the British preoccupation with class, privilege and elitism, and by shared anxieties about inequality, exclusion and the function of education. Despite our best efforts, the whole process of applying has become part of the myth too.

Student in Oxford Beware the "myth of Oxbridge" - with its dreaming spires

But it's not just about Oxbridge. We've come to take it for granted - but actually the whole business of university applications in this country, for any university, is needlessly tortuous. The end result might be OK - happily many kids get where they want to go.

But the route they have to take is more difficult and stressful than it should be. It relies on ridiculously minute distinctions between exam grades, it demands shameless self-marketing from the students on their application forms, and it operates according to a timetable that any outside observer would say was plain bonkers.

No wonder it all looms so large.

Start Quote

One of the odd things is the student's personal statement, which most universities - heaven help them - now rely on instead of an interview”

End Quote

One of the odd things is the student's personal statement, which most universities - heaven help them - now rely on instead of an interview. Even when I applied in 1972, this was known to be risky territory. I still remember trying to dredge up something to write about from my frankly rather dull life as a teen-aged swot.

I had read quite a lot about the American Black Power movement and wanted to mention that. "Absolutely not," said my school, thinking it would make me look like a junior revolutionary.

Twenty years later, my elderly mother soon got the measure of the local school kids who would call on her looking for something "charitable" to insert into their personal statements. They would knock on her door in the autumn term asking if they could "visit" her. She had, she would explain, a very active social life not likely to be much enhanced by chats with a 17-year-old - but if they wanted to put "I visit an old lady" on their university application form, she was sure they could come to a temporary arrangement.

Today's statements are much less concerned with good works, and are often uncomfortably corporate in style - weaving together clever quotations from Shakespeare and Aristotle with carefully constructed personal anecdotes, to create an implausibly perfect impression.

They're so professional that they have to be put through "plagiarism detection" software - which apparently many fail.

Actor in Roman play Better find out what's under the toga before next week

I've also seen, over the years, a few nasty examples of dirty competition between the applicants themselves. The worst was in my first job, when the application form was not yet online, and when there was still a question on it about your proposed career. On the form of one applicant, some classroom enemy (or irresponsible jokester) had crossed out "lawyer" or "teacher" or whatever safe bet the kid had written down, and inserted instead - clearly in another hand - the word "gigolo".

You can imagine the flurry of embarrassed letters from the school when this came to light - and the punishment that must have been meted out to the culprit.

But more than anything, it is the bizarre timetable that makes the application process so preoccupying. When we say in January or February that someone "got in" to their chosen university, we don't actually mean that. We mean that they will have got in if they achieve the grades demanded by the university in their summer exam, which even if all goes well, drags out the nail biting for a good six months.

If it doesn't go well and they don't get the grades, they enter a whole new round of applications in August. This is a frenetic process, with applicants tracking down the remaining unfilled places by email and phone - then being given maybe a few hours to accept a place for a course they haven't really explored at a university they know little about.

The chief executive of UCAS, the body which runs the application process, has said that we really have to consider moving to a system in which most places are allocated not before, but after the crucial exam results are known.

It would involve more upheavals than you can imagine - from the impact on the university and school year and the timing of the exams, to the traditional family summer holiday and the arrangement of visas for foreign students. It may turn out be too difficult to arrange. But it's one big thing that would take the unnecessary heat out of the whole process.

And, me, I hope that the change might be brought off.

But perhaps you're wondering what happened to gigolo boy. Well, it takes more than a prank to derail a university department. He got in and did well, and must now be in his 40s. How he's earning his living, I wish I knew.

 

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  • rate this
    0

    Comment number 314.

    I had two interviews during my application to Oxford - both fair and related to my subject. Often these 'wacky' questions are completely taken out of context: a question that was posed was 'what percentage of a cow is bacteria?' which makes very little sense unless you've been talking about the symbiosis between cells and mitochondria. It didn't stop me bursting into tears afterwards thought!

  • rate this
    +1

    Comment number 313.

    there is not a strong correlation between IQ and good education & grammar. many Menseans I know who are mathematicians have 'poor' english skills including me and my punctuation. It is all about being able to reason logically and abstractly and find relations between things. Being able to conceptualise. anyway I have to go to bed and dream about 'not being able to get to sleep...'

  • rate this
    +3

    Comment number 312.

    A lot of the replies here stress that these the questions are to tease out how logically the applicant can think, I don't think that's right, I think its to test how creatively the applicants can think.

  • rate this
    +5

    Comment number 311.

    308 HughC
    Twice as long as half its length?

  • rate this
    +4

    Comment number 310.

    Those people without a chip on their shoulder who have actually experienced the modern Oxbridge applications process are unanimous in their agreement that it is good.

    My interviewers did everything they could to make me feel comfortable. They helped me when I needed it and the questions were all fair and sane; just tricky and unusual, as they naturally have to be to be discerning.

  • rate this
    -1

    Comment number 309.

    I will give an example of such a question/test: A spectator is at an art gallery and see's an abstract painting of blue oranges in an elliptical shaped bowl. 'Good Lord' the spectator thinks to himself, this is the way the painter must see it in real life. Q: is this silly thinking and if so why ?

  • rate this
    0

    Comment number 308.

    I went to Manchester and was interviewed in a huge room by at least five people. I was asked "How long is a piece of string"? I just said what came into my head. I got in , I dont know if it was my answer that did it , I rather think not, but it certainly didnt hinder me. Any ideas about what my answer was?

  • rate this
    +2

    Comment number 307.

    306.1958OxfordMorris
    Just now
    The interviewer asks these apparently 'silly questions' to see if the candidate can think logically. It is a bit like asking yourself 'what if I were another person...' logically this does not make sense and you would need to know why. we discuss these sort of questions in MENSA


    In MENSA, do you discuss why you put plural "these" with singular "sort"?

  • rate this
    -1

    Comment number 306.

    The interviewer asks these apparently 'silly questions' to see if the candidate can think logically. It is a bit like asking yourself 'what if I were another person...' logically this does not make sense and you would need to know why. we discuss these sort of questions in MENSA

  • rate this
    +2

    Comment number 305.

    At my Oxford interview (Medicine,1999) I had 2 interviews and a written exam. One interview was thinking out loud trying to figure out the answer to something I was (expected to be) clueless about.
    The second went through a topic at A-level and beyond. They then asked about my personal statement.
    In the written exam we were given an article and asked questions on it.
    All very normal. I got in.

  • rate this
    +4

    Comment number 304.

    I don't feel there's anything wrong with this sort of questioning as long as interviewers look at a range of criteria. It might help them identify candidates who can clearly demonstrate origional thought above the more run-of-the-mill.
    It certainly beats the questioning I had at an interview; 'Have you got a boyfriend?' 'And what does HE say about you wanting to move over 200 miles from home?'

  • rate this
    +2

    Comment number 303.

    I've had experience both with being interviewed and helping with the admissions process for Maths [Ox].

    The tutors are interested almost purely in ability - they give you questions in the interview you can't answer, and see how you react to hints and guidance. A large emphasis is also placed on the entrance test, especially for science subjects.

  • rate this
    -3

    Comment number 302.

    What about a simple standardised entrance exam. The same questions for everyone. No names on the exam papers, just numbers.
    No bias possible, everbody is equal, academic capability rules.
    Maybe Oxbridge prefers the continiued ability of exercising a degree of preferential bias?

  • rate this
    -3

    Comment number 301.

    @194. Epidia

    Yes, if you're studying for an BA. I have yet to hear 1 person use the word "read" to describe engineering. This includes many people in the industry and universities.

  • rate this
    +5

    Comment number 300.

    These are questions to demonstrate how you think and not what you know. It is patronising to say that they favour students from middle class homes since it implies that they have the monopoly on intelligent thought. Hardly the case. Questions such as these separate the slavish followers of curricula from the thinkers whose abilities will flourish in the right environment.

  • rate this
    +4

    Comment number 299.

    As a 17,18 year old I was hopeless at these sort of questions; I was too wrapped up in wanting to give the answer I thought the interviewer wanted, instead of thinking on my feet & giving my own answer as I thought it through. As a 40 something, they're a lot easier. Am I more intelligent now? - NO! Just more confident & capable of coming to my own conclusions, with a dash of origional thought.

  • rate this
    +3

    Comment number 298.

    At some point we all have to learn that life is much more like one long series of interviews than one long series of exams.

  • rate this
    0

    Comment number 297.

    292.Simon densley
    8 Minutes ago
    my life's desire would be to reproduce more of my own kind .. being in the UK that would be more likely if I produce apple seeds rather than banana - so an apple.



    I love the wide range of types of apple. However you will be disappointed by the vegetative method of propagation to ensure true-to-type reproduction rather than sexually produced seeds.

  • rate this
    +5

    Comment number 296.

    Many critics here assume that Oxbridge interviewers come from very privileged families. But most academics there are not from public schools: students from prestigious fee-paying schools tend to turn their noses up at academic careers - and academic salaries! Those who stay on in universities after graduating do so out of love of their subject, and are usually sympathetic to poorer applicants.

  • rate this
    -3

    Comment number 295.

    @288
    You smell lovely and well informed.

    I speak as someone who was part of this interview system. The ill-defined 'performance' criteria that acted as a basis for the eccentric questions served to weed out the blushing oiks. An unspoken rule. Part of the class system. One of the reasons I left academia.

 

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