I don't quite follow how what they wear affects the quality of the album. Nor can I understand why their clothes on the back cover is "disturbing".

"As director, Prizeman’s influence looms long over Libera. Because it is an ensemble made up of children, one suspects that any stylistic decisions come from either Prizeman or other, more industrial figures. The boys are decked in now-trademark monastic white robes on the sleeve and, more disturbingly, appear on the back cover wearing identical white hoodies, black trousers and Cons, as if they’re on some kind of choral downtime. This, though invisible to the dedicated audience, is packaging to make a saleable whole. With better direction and handling (doing away with the robes would be the first thing to do), they would stand a chance of making an album of worthwhile artistry – this current model can only continue to tread water."

I'm not sure that this is their 17th album. Certainly not under the name Libera.

9th [ or 11th if you include the Japan only releases], but not 17.

There were previously 4 CDs under the old name Angel Voices and 1 CD as St. Philip's Boys' Choir.

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A completely useless review, typical of reviewers these days who are more interested in slating what's before them in the most controversial way just because 'they' presume it will get a better response by readers.

This is shown by his last comment "but it’s clear that if ever there was an ensemble that had no cares for what the critics thought about them, it’s Libera" written specifically to bait the audience into giving a response. I almost didn't want to play his game, showing this reviewer the indifference he deserves.

However I'd be interested to hear Daniel's suggestions on how Libera who have topped classical music charts in many countries and sold out concert halls with their flowing white robes for the past 4-5 years, could change their current format to produce an album (as he puts it) of worthwhile artistry.

Well I'd be interested to the point were I could have a good laugh, because I can guarantee you that whatever he proposes would have a significant shorter shelf life, than the continued success of Libera under Robert Prizeman's directorship.

I discovered Libera here in the heartland of the United States after majoring in choral music many years ago at a Lutheran college.

In 2007 I traveled to England solely to attend a concert by the boys of Libera in Arundel and to also visit the small church where this phenomenon developed. The magnificence of these experiences combined with the depth of passion in their earlier recordings (both audio and video) remain a source of exquisite beauty and artistry for my personal life.

Thus the review in the BBC by Mr. Ross is quite off the mark, and I would suggest that he research further the unique development and artistic achievement of this group of boys developed by Mr. Prizeman and others in south London. I would further suggest that he meet some of the boys and their families in person as well as a few devoted English followers of this movement, as I did during my visit to his great country. Then perhaps the English writer of the article will better discern the priceless contribution of this movement (with their new CD) to the cultural milieu of our planet.

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“though invisible to the dedicated audience”

How so?
We ‘dedicated audience’ members have see it all.
As do many choirs the boys have a ‘concert’ uniform (the robe) and any number of outfits to wear as befits the occasion, travelling, before and after church services, etc.

“disturbingly, appear on the back cover wearing identical white hoodies…”
Disturbing in what way? To whom?

“an album of worthwhile artistry”
Have you listened to any previous albums?

“had no cares for what the critics thought”
Would you know how many times their albums have been shortlisted for respected awards?

Your closing sentence reveals considerable ignorance and a lack of basic research.
Mothers Day has nothing to do with it.
The release date probably has more to do with support for their annual tour to Japan and Korea, which this year will probably take in the USA and the UK.
Many artists release an album and tour to promote it.

Of course, the point of Daniel Ross isn’t the quality of his writing; it is fact he bothers to write at all.
Who is Daniel Ross?
Perhaps if we knew something of his experience and ability in his chosen field we might be inclined to take him more seriously.

“The boys are decked in now-trademark monastic white robes on the sleeve and, more disturbingly, appear on the back cover wearing identical white hoodies, black trousers and Cons, as if they're on some kind of choral downtime. This, though invisible to the dedicated audience, is packaging to make a saleable whole. With better direction and handling (doing away with the robes would be the first thing to do), they would stand a chance of making an album of worthwhile artistry” – Do you even have eyes? I don’t think so. What about the Vienna Boys’ Choir’s sailor uniforms? How about the ones in Ely’s Cathedral? These choirs have different looks to help promote themselves, yes. But what exactly is disturbing about that? If you’re in the arts, you would understand such artistry and respect it. You have the right to voice out what you don’t like about their music, but leave the ‘hoods’ to the boys. It’s their trademark. Respect it. And just like any artist, they do tours to promote their music, and not because Mother's Day is coming. Just so you know Mr. Daniel Ross, Libera does not need Mother's Day or any occasion to make their music sell. They can release albums anytime they want, and people will love their music because " if ever there was an ensemble that had no cares for what the critics thought about them, it’s Libera".

I find it amusing that Mr Ross is attempting to give Libera marketing lessons, seeing as their recordings tend to vastly out sell those of more traditional choirs that have been plodding along for hundreds of years.

Mr Ross reminds me a bit of Paul Johnson's review of The Beatles in The New Statesman, 28 February 1964, where he described the fab four as "this apotheosis of inanity", with Beatles fans termed "a bottomless chasm of vacuity", and pop critics as "barely more literate or articulate" than those who buy the records in the first place. He then described the true hope of the future, as "the sensible contingent of teens who diligently apply themselves to the works of true cultural greats" (Milton, Wagner, Debussy, Matisse, El Greco, Proust), unlike those who embrace "music which not only cannot be heard but does not need to be heard".

Given this drubbing, I'm sure Mr McCartney sobbed all the way to the bank.

There are some critics who feel that displaying any sense of populism will undermine their bona fides as a 'serious' critic. Mr Ross appears to fall squarely into that category.

ROFLCOPTER at 17 albums!?! Where did Daniel Ross get that information? Fakepedia?

Obviously Ross doesn't listen to Boy Choirs.. Look at the other reviews he has written for.

Peace is the most anticipated album of Libera so far. If you check the YouTube channel of EMI Classics, one of the songs from this album, Time, ranks third in the most viewed videos - that's one month from its YouTube debut. Considering that the first two most viewed videos have been posted for a year, it's an indication that Libera is becoming more and more popular maybe not in the UK where Mr. Ross hails but in the different parts of the globe. Clearly, Mr. Ross is not the right person to trust when it comes to marketing strategies. Moreover, he does not do his research prior to sacrificing his credibility as a critic in doing album reviews. Oh yeah, where's the album review?

It is tempting to simply call the reviewer a jerk because he does not appreciate a CD which I have eagerly awaited from the group prese4ntinmg the best sound that has been heard on this planet since the angels sang at the birth of the Christ, BUT way beyond that is the pathetic quality of the review.

What does the attire of the singers have to do with the quality of the music? What innovative or creative brilliance is he accustomed to hearing from other treble groups?

The suggestion that the timing of the release is somehow connected to "Mothers' Day" is ludicrous. What fraction of Libera's fandom are mothers?

OK, I will now stoop to the reviewer's level and say the following: The review appears to have been written by a bitter little man who had a deadline he needed to meet when he was in a rotten mood.

He gets 17 because that is the number Wikipedia lists. No other site lists 17.

No further comment necessary.

Despite all the other references not having anything to do with the actual music....I agree with the critic. This CD is lame. Prizeman putting all the tracts on Amazon was an error. All that did was give the curious, possible/former/current fans the chance to listen, realize what they are getting for their money, and make a decision not to purchase it. It does seems like Prizeman is just throwing something out there so they can have something "new" to push on their perfuntory Far East concert tour. Im sure with economy in the UK being what it is, EMI's and Prizeman's bank accounts probably need a quick shot in the arm right about now also. He is clearly counting on the loyal fans, (and some "others" who outnumber fans) who buy just because it has Libera written on it. This CD was being ripped by more than just this Ross person,(thanks to the Amazon posting) even before it was actually released. I have read several other sites who aren't this kind. Unlike some of the previous CD's that people gladly purchased, this one is being file shared all over the net because people just dont think it is worth the money. Im sure it will do a brisk business on ebay when the original purchasers grow weary of it.

It seems that a fair portion of the negative reaction to this review comes from the factual inaccuracy of Libera having released 17 albums. Fair play, that's a mistake.

As for comments on the album itself, I stand by what's written in that review. To say that the release date of this album has nothing to do with Mother's Day is naive - of course it does. Anyone who's been privy at one time or another to major label release schedules will know this to be true (a particular favourite of mine was when Russell Watson fell critically ill and a slew of reissues appeared on his label's forthcoming schedule - when he made a recovery, these disappeared).

The monastic clothing is unnecessary, and serves only to create an impression of innocence. I dwell on it is to highlight how irrelevant it actually is - more focus needs to be put on their music. Far from offering 'marketing lessons' as someone suggested I was doing, I was merely suggesting that a focus on the music would be a means to greater artistic achievement. The photography is designed to create an impression of camraderie - people love to see it. It disturbs me that they wear the same hoodies and Cons because it's so forced and unnatural.

'Obviously Mr Ross doesn't listen to boy choirs'. This is silly. How do you know? By basing the assumption on the other reviews I've completed for the BBC? I'm not one to usually comment on such ill-informed things, but I was in fact a chorister as a boy and studied music (choral included) at degree level.

I'm not bitter about Libera, I point out that they're a great thing for young people to be involved with. My gripe is with the way they're sold to the public and the lack of innovation in the music itself (which is terribly unchallenging). Far from baiting readers as someone else suggsted, I have simply presented my opinion. If it provokes debate, then that's great. If people miss the point because they're enraged by a differing opinion, then there's little I can do to change that. Hopefully this has clarified a few things.

"The monastic clothing is unnecessary, and serves only to create an impression of innocence. I dwell on it is to highlight how irrelevant it actually is - more focus needs to be put on their music. Far from offering 'marketing lessons' as someone suggested I was doing, I was merely suggesting that a focus on the music would be a means to greater artistic achievement. The photography is designed to create an impression of camraderie - people love to see it. It disturbs me that they wear the same hoodies and Cons because it's so forced and unnatural."

You are completely correct about this. Prizeman does sell the "innocents" of the boys more than the actual music itself. On many occations Prizeman has consistantly chosen the "eye candy" boy over one far more qualifed to sing the part or solo. The people who he is really trying to capture with his product are those that listen with their eyes instead of their ears. The most recent evidence of this is when a boy "Tom" aged out of the group some time ago, and still many of the post made to the choirs personal sites and youtube videos are a bunch of obsessive tripe lamenting where he is, why is he gone, and how are they going to live without him. This is occuring because unlike the previous boys who got the same attention, Prizeman doesnt have a new "pretty boy" lined up yet to thrill and entice his "audience" with. Many boys with far superior skills and abilitis (one in particular had a far superiour ability and training that Prizeman couldn't produce in a hundred years, yet was ignored till the very end of his treble period, and then given one solo as a parting gift) have been denied or given backup rolls only because of their "not so easy on the eyes" appearance. This wouldnt happen if the actual focus was the music, as you so correctly pointed out. Libera claims that child protection is priority 1, but reality tells a different story. Prizeman knows who is audience really is, and he uses what he must to ensure his paycheck.

'Obviously Mr Ross doesn't listen to boy choirs'.

What they are really saying is that you dont obsess (or another word) over boys(take the compliment!). Probably a vast majority of these people have never heard any of the multitude of Cathedral/Parish Choirs (which have been around for hundreds of years longer)that litter the UK, and if they had, it was probably a brief once over at best. Why is this? As mentioned above, they are marketed as choirs, not a really "marketable" boy with extremely limited professional training and above average natural, yet untrained ability, being backed up by the less "marketable" who may posses far superiour skills or abilities. Occasionally you will see solo CD's come from exceptional singers in the real treble choir world. But as I just mentioned, the singers are exceptional, not their marketability or looks. I have never seen a Cathedral choir, or any other choir for that matter, put on a meat market spectacle like Prizeman does to sell their "music".

I'm not bitter about Libera, I point out that they're a great thing for young people to be involved with. My gripe is with the way they're sold to the public and the lack of innovation in the music itself (which is terribly unchallenging).

You are closer to the truth than you realize.........

Far from baiting readers as someone else suggested, I have simply presented my opinion. If it provokes debate, then that's great. If people miss the point because they're enraged by a differing opinion, then there's little I can do to change that.

Dont you know? You are not allowed to have an opinion about Libera unless it is completely obsessive, sickly sweet, gushing of adulation and completely void of truth as long as it plays in to the fantasy world of the Libera "fans", no matter how accurate, how truthful, how honest it may be.
(You can thank your own Moderators for promoting this type of behavior)

"I'm not one to usually comment on such ill-informed things, but I was in fact a chorister as a boy and studied music (choral included) at degree level."

That would be "Check and Mate"!


Good job.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

The point is, no music was reviewed here..lol so, lemme do ma thang :)
This album is certainly full of surprises and innovative. They are experimenting with new musical style in Exsultate, unique ad-libbing in Touch the Sky, lush violin-solo by Fiona Pears, and the fact that they use new soloists in almost 80% of this album only makes it fresher.
However, there's still weak point..that is recycling Lacrymosa with just a slight intro change.

That's it, my personal pseudo-review. Excuse my rather unintelligible language.

Greetings from Iceland

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Mr. Ross, you pointed out Libera's usual white robes and their occasional white robes are unnecessary and only exist to sell their innocent concept.

What's so wrong and bad about it? It's a concept just like every other artist has. Why do rock bands associate themselves with tight jeans and long hairs? Why do rappers wear blingblings? Why does Celtic Women wear fairy-like dresses? Do you think these are also unnecessary to their music? It's a part of performance and brand image they want their audiences to associate with.

Libera's innocent concept, which goes perfectly with what Mr. Prizeman produces, obviously sells very well despite your review. Their fan base is growing each year, almost exponentially. How would you interpret this concrete evidence of the number of CDs sold, which is more reliability than your opinion? It is true that some fans will buy the album just because it has Libera written on it. But how would you explain those tens of thousands people all over the world who purchased this new album?

I meant to say their usual white robes and their occasional white hoodies. my bad.

Sorry. I meant to say their usual white robes and their occasional white hoodies.

This comment is directed at Mr. Ross.

I appreciate that you have a heavy choral background, and I would disagree with some people here who dismiss your expertise so readily.

That being said, I'm a little bit confused. My understanding of this article: "Review of Libera - Peace" was that it is a *musical* review.

I don't see any discussion of music here. All I see are comments about their clothing and "innocent" image. To be honest, I would rather be a fan of a group promoting youth talent and innocence than sexuality among Disney-aged singers that represents the majority of contemporary music.

But as I stated before, the title of this article was misleading. There was no music reviewing here.

To Chase, Actually he did discuss the music on the CD. Granted, it wasnt a large part of his total commentary, but he did discuss the music.

"Peace is their 17th, and offers nothing in the way of musical innovation, but plenty in the way of fuel for cynics.

Broadly, you might describe Peace as a hybrid of New Age and classical – the instrumentation is sparse and largely electronically manipulated, but takes its source material from a light classical and choral canon. Consequently, we hear recognisable and unchallenging melodies from the Adagio from Mozart’s Clarinet Concerto (here delivered too fast and robbed of all maturity), an almost-obligatory John Rutter number and several traditional works, mostly arranged by Libera’s mastermind, Robert Prizeman."

My last comment was 'removed' (which I think was outrageous). I am determined to express my view that your review, Daniel, is nasty and ill-informed. The children and their parents will be reading your review - which is bad enough – but your immaturity is flabbergasting. You would do well to remove you review because its full of hate and first-year-undergraduate amateurism. It's bile-ridden. I don't care for Libera myself. In fact, I've not listened to their stuff all the way through... But you are clearly not a critic. You're a student with no sensitivity or mature empathy.

Comming back to the main issue in the review of Mr. Daniel Ross it can be sumarised as follow: It is the innocents of the boys that sells(robes and hoodies) and not their "unchallenging melodies".

Well, in the music-business it is the image that sells along with the music. Just look at the backstreet boys or the spice girls. I can not imagine baby spice looking like a doll all day. It is an image that was chosen for her. The same is to be said for Libera. It is an image that is chosen for the boys that works out very well. So why change it?

About their music: Do not forget that they have brought many young people in contact with classical music. As before classical music was concidered dusty and old, Libera made it new and exciting.

"To say that the release date of this album has nothing to do with Mother's Day is naive - of course it does. Anyone who's been privy at one time or another to major label release schedules will know this to be true."

If this comment of Mr. Ross is true than it is not only Libera who's album is released just before mother's day. So if that is the case then why is that a big deal?? Why would you write it in your review if every big record label operates like that? It holds no value what so ever to your review.

"I'm not bitter about Libera, I point out that they're a great thing for young people to be involved with."

The only thing to do with a review is to read it and acknowledge its existence as an opinion of one man. Libera is a great thing for young people to be involved with and maybe Libera will take this opertunity to become even better than what they are today.

btw: Sorry for the bad englisch here and there.

It is a pity that Mr Ross did not do a 'proper' review based on the music because his views are repeated by others on the net, though put down under their own name. The same thing sometimes happens with Amazon reviews.

For example, one might expect a proper music based review of the album Peace by a site called The Record Reviewer but we find they copy / paste Mr Roosss' review and pass it off as their own so for the visitors to that site, Libera's music still does not get an unbiased review.

http://www.recordreviewer.com/2010/03/libera-peace.html

david

Sad to se the ill-informed comments from Daniel in regard to the latest Libera CD 'PEACE'. I had thought better of the BBC! This 'Boys Band', as Libera liked to be called, sing with considerable discipline and beauty, and their young voices sound like angels in performing the
wonderful and imaginative arrangements set for them by their choir master and conductor, Robert Prizeman,of which 'PEACE' IS the latest example, as confirmed by their large band of supporters around the world!

As I predicted in comment #14, the original owners have already grown weary and this cd is now flooding ebay for less that a dollar. It hasnt even been 6 weeks.

Mr Daniel Ross should be ashamed of his comments about Libera. The BBC equally so for permitting their websites to be used for such poor quality reviews. Mr Prizeman fortunately puts his efforts into a very worthwhile group and cause. I discovered Libera fairly recently (last month)and have since listened to the majority of the tracks. They are superb and from all the comments I see on the net and the support for their concerts, I am one of thousands worldwide that share the same opinion.They are worthy of an excellent review.
Mr Ross, unfortunately is very misinformed and does not have any appreciation for real talent. Long Live Libera!!!

It is one thing to make a constructive comment/criticism, and another thing entirely to treat artists with such open scorn and distaste.

BBC, this is NOT an unbiased, objective, professional review, but a very personal and UNprofessional mix and match of semi-facts, half-truths, and personal (obviously highly unfavorable) opinion.

I suggest BBC check a little better what their authors are writing and posting to the public.
Your reviewers should excercise their personal frustrations somewhere else where they can't hurt or irritate anyone.

What an appalling so-called "review". No mention of anything to do with their music and it seems nothing but pure hatred against everything Libera stand for.

I have never read such a biased review from the BBC before, and this one is disgusting.

This so-called review is a laughable caricature of the thinking of sophomoric leftist “intellectuals” who hate the beauty of what is good in Western culture. Irony abounds in his output. This self-styled intellectual who gloats in superiority to the simple folk who love Libera cannot even spell. You mean innocence, not “innocents,” Mr. Ross. And camaraderie, not “camraderie.”


He refers to the “obligatory” John Rutter song in the latest recording. I have most of Libera’s CDs and none of them except "Peace"contain a Rutter song, although there is a video extant of their performing Rutter’s All Things Bright and Beautiful. I wonder if Ross also dislikes Rutter’s compositions, some of which have the same kind of stunning beauty as those of Robert Prizeman. Both men have extensive experience with choral performance and broad knowledge of classical music. The main difference is that Rutter works with trained adults who perform mainly for recordings, while Prizeman must train kids to sing harmony, memorize Latin lyrics, and perform in public, all of which they do remarkably well by any standard. I thought that the Cambridge Singers’ recordings were about the most beautiful music I had ever heard, until I found Libera’s renditions of Prizeman’s works. Many hacks can crank out complex and “sophisticated” music, but it takes a genius to produce accessible yet beautiful works like those of Prizeman and Rutter.

Ross attacks Libera because he thinks its music is “unchallenging”. What are you looking for, Ross? Grade-school kids who sing Renaissance polyphony? Frankly, I am utterly amazed that these mere children can sing harmony, on key, in a dead language, and do so in live performances. There is nothing simple or easy about their work.

Ross attacks Libera for delivering a Mozart melody “too fast and robbed of all authenticity.” How silly. They are not performing a Mozart concerto, Daniel! They are singing something which borrows a melody from Mozart; something which classical composers have been doing for centuries. Should we criticize Mozart or many other classical composers because they borrowed folk melodies while changing their tempo and and removing them from their context? Remember, folks. Ross attacks Libera for an alleged lack of innovation, then he claims they are not authentic. You can’t have it both ways, Mr. Ross.


The key to Ross’s attitude is found in the works which he does like. Click on his name and you will find glowing reviews for a woman who is part of the “indie-pop carousel” (translation:_ a current faddish trend, soon to be forgotten) while playing on a ukulele (hardly an instrument esteemed by any great musical tradition, whether classical, jazz, or even rock, but one which fulfill’s Ross’s demand for “innovation” at any price), and for a Syrian man who screams violent and gross lyrics. Clearly Ross is a man who finds value in what is grotesque, weird, and downright ugly. No wonder he does not like Libera! Other leftist intellectuals have tried for decades to interest the public in arcane and repulsive stuff, whether it be atonal and “serial” art music or the boring, depressing, and nihilistic fiction of writers like Camus. What always happens is that the intelligent but un-brainwashed public instinctively strays from this junk and gravitates to the beautiful. As G. K. Chesterton said, common people (unlike “sophisticated” intellectuals of the Left) have common sense. They have an inherent liking for what is positive, uplifting, and downright “sweet.” Great performers and composers have always played to this human need for beauty and moral encouragement, although in modern times, academically esteemed hacks, removed from the need to please humanity and funded by government grants, churn out faddish, forgettable, and ugly trash.

As for his dislike of Libera’s robes, irony is again evident. The acts he likes, like Omar Suleyman, who wears a headress like that of a Palestinian terrorist, are using dress as a self-conscious contrived statement of hostility to the West. Libera uses monastic robes not as a commercial gimmick (let alone a hateful one), but because much of their musical inspiration is the great music of the Western Christian tradition, including monastic chant.


I do think that Mr. Prizeman is engaging in a form of cultural subversion and manipulation, but in a positive sense. Faced with a popularized intellectual “culture” which glorifies the ugly and perverse (as evinced by Mr. Ross), a culture which has made many young people ashamed to participate in time-honored and wonderful traditions like religious choral singing, he has attempted to modify and even disguise that tradition in order to preserve it, while developing an environment in which young people feel joy and enthusiasm. Prizeman and his chief collaborators like Ian Tilley, Ben Crawley, and Steven Geraghty are all graduates of the St. Philip’s Choir. That says something to me. It indicates that Libera is a work of love, and that something about its culture generates loyalty. If Mr. Ross had bothered looking at any of the many videos of Libera, he would have seen that the camaraderie which he cynically sees as a promotional gimmick is real and unfeigned. These kids show what many of us knew all along: that discipline, dedication and teamwork are not incompatible in the least with friendship and having fun. The “saccharine sweetness” which cynics see in Libera is actually the joy, optimism and cheer which are inherent in the Christian world view. Libera, after all, is an outgrowth of a church choir, and their lyrics are almost all explicitly or implicitly Christian. Any intelligent person today knows that the intellectual climate of the UK today is dominated by Leftists who hate Christianity and other Western values. That is what is reflected in this so-called “reviewer’s” likes and dislikes.

With their tradition of open-minded eclecticism, East Asians have enthusiastically embraced the beauty of Libera, just as many of them have become great instrumental performers who are upholding the universal value of Western classical music, while Western “sophisticates” like Ross wallow in the bizarre and ugly works of a man from a one-party Third World dictatorship whose main export is terrorism and hate. How ironic but revealing that an alien but highly intelligent non-Western culture recognizes what is beautiful in ours, while people like Ross abandon beauty in favor of ugliness. Clearly Libera has tapped into something which is universal and transcultural, although its roots are in Western culture.

I close with a quote from the great classical composer Jan Sibelius: "Pay no attention to what critics say. No statue has ever been put up to a critic."

The fact that Daniel Ross was chosen by the Beeb to give a review of Libera is evidence of the hatred the Left feels for the land in which it lives. As an American, I think Britain should be proud of having produced the likes of Libera. Shame on you, BBC.

Some interesting points, Westerner16 - I'll attempt to answer them in order of occurrence. Apologies if it's a little hard to follow.

"This self-styled intellectual who gloats in superiority to the simple folk who love Libera cannot even spell. You mean innocence, not “innocents,” Mr. Ross. And camaraderie, not “camraderie.”"

Actually, I do mean innocents, as in more than one innocent person. No excuses on the second one though. Sorry about that. As for being a self-styled intellectual, this is a strange thing to accuse someone of being. I don't see myself as an intellectual, particularly, just someone with specialist areas and opinions on them.

Rutter is fairly obligatory in most sacred choirs. Having been in one myself, I can still hear the saccharine melodies in my head today. It's the equivalent of someone singing a Bob Dylan song at an open-mic night.

"Ross attacks Libera because he thinks its music is “unchallenging”. What are you looking for, Ross? Grade-school kids who sing Renaissance polyphony?"

I don't disagree that these are skilled singers, but what I'm getting at in the review is the unchallenging nature of the whole performance, rather than making light of the technical challenge it presents. It is difficult to rehearse a choir to such exacting standards, yes, but these are not challenging interpretations of the works.

I'm glad you bring up the Mozart melody. It is, as you rightly state, commonplace for composers to borrow melodies, but in this case Prizeman has elected to borrow a melody that has a tremendous amount of gravitas. All I'm saying is that, by delivering it too fast, they have made an emotional tune a rather empty one, one that just sweeps past with little event. Changing things around when you borrow a melody is fine (explore pop's mixed history of cover versions, perhaps), but my opinion of this particular theft is negative.

"Remember, folks. Ross attacks Libera for an alleged lack of innovation, then he claims they are not authentic. You can’t have it both ways, Mr. Ross."

You absolutely can. Without a doubt. Innovation can make you authentic. It means you're experimenting, you're in a cultural no-man's land and treating us to something we haven't experienced before. Authenticity is perceived and subjective, yes, but if an artist genuinely pushes back the boundaries of what's been done before, then it will ususally be considered authentic. At no point is this the case on Peace.

Re: the other reviews I've written for the BBC - this is an odd line of argument to take. Have you listened to Allo Darlin' (the ukulele one, if you're wondering)? It's not innovative, not at all. There are lots of bands that have influenced the record and some that sound similar - the point is that the songs are very pretty and the words are sweet and clever, resulting in a fantastic record. As far as Omar Souleyman (or 'Suleyman', as you put it - poor spelling affects us both) goes, I'd much rather listen to something with a terrifying emotion in it than one with something I've heard before, for the sake of talking about music and expanding your cultural horizons. It's just more interesting.

"Clearly Ross is a man who finds value in what is grotesque, weird, and downright ugly." - Who are we to say what is ugly? A mindset like that will severely hamper your ability to digest music of any other culture, viewpoint or gestation. Music should be the enemy of small-mindedness, and its criticism should be the antagonist to the opinion that certain things are 'just noise', or 'not even music'. It's also borderline-insane to assume that the common man (whatever that is) only likes sweet or uplifting music. How else do you explain the popularity of any number of harsh, aggressive musics over the last however-many centuries? From Mozart's Requiem to The Smiths, the common man clearly sees something in these less-than-chirpy tunes.

The issue of the way Libera dress is an issue, but the monastic robes are not the problem. The matching hoodies and casual wear are, in my opinion, downright strange. From a marketing point of view, a more successful approach would've been to just dress them naturally, not with clouds behind them or unnecessary heavenly imagery. I don't doubt that the camaraderie between the members of the choir is genuine, just that it's needless to effect it with the photographs on the sleeve.

"Any intelligent person today knows that the intellectual climate of the UK today is dominated by Leftists who hate Christianity and other Western values. That is what is reflected in this so-called “reviewer’s” likes and dislikes." - This is rather off-topic.

"With their tradition of open-minded eclecticism, East Asians have enthusiastically embraced the beauty of Libera, just as many of them have become great instrumental performers who are upholding the universal value of Western classical music…" I encourage you to read up on some Ethnomusicological issues before assuming that the beauty of Western music is some kind of objective for the rest of the world to achieve. Here's a good starting point: http://amzn.to/cMYWC7

Regarding the Sibelius quote - if you can find me one critic in the world that would seriously want a monument erected in their honour, then he/she is no critic. Critics comment on, describe, enhance and argue about the arts. They do not create them, and they know it.

Finally, don't blame the Beeb for this review, blame me. I asked to review this release myself because I believe I have some valid opinions on it. So if you're shaming anyone for having a differing opinion, make sure it's the reviewer, not the BBC.

Hope that's cleared a few things up.

Sorry, but your responses just fall flat. You choose to criticize Libera for not being innovative, then somehow allege that their innovative use of a Mozart melody is not "authentic," a term you use so loosely that it has no meaning. Basically, authentic is something Ross likes, that's all.

You now wish us to think that it's not the monastic robes which you disapprove of, but their other costumes, but in your original review, you specifically attack the robes in two different places. Sorry, Ross. You can't fool everybody.



The quality of being innocent is "innocence," not "innocents," and that is the meaning embodied in the context of your statement.

As for the spelling of Suleyman, there is no correct spelling because Arabic must be transliterated into English, and there are different ways of doing that.

As for the popularity of Libera (and other Western music) in the Orient, the people of that region have spoken. Too bad you, as a "multicultural" and anti-Western intellectual, chose to disregard that fact. No one forced Japanese and Koreans, and Filipinos to like Libera or Western classical music. They do, which indicates to most unbiased people that there is something objectively appealing to all cultures in "sweet" Western music. To the intellectual Left, there must be some ulterior cause, like "a legacy of Western colonialism." The trouble with that it that neither Japan nor Korea were ever colonized by the West. Give it up, Ross. There is something beautiful about Libera which can be recognized by people of diverse races and cultures. That is not true of the music of every culture, or all music of Western culture.

East Asian performers are now prominent performers of Western classical music. That's a fact, and one does not have to study "ethnomusicology" or read pretentious and pompous critics to know it. East Asians are also enthusiastic about Libera, although the group grew out of a religious and musical tradition different from their own. Maybe you should publish something in the Oriental media chastising Asians for their bad taste.

"Who are we to decide what is ugly?" you say. This is a laughable caricature of the relativistic intellectual attitude of today. The audience will decide, as it always has. Again and again, people have rejected ugly, harsh, and grotesque music praised by critics in favor of that which is beautiful and uplifting. Only during the last century or two have intellectuals tried to convince "the masses" that ugly junk is really better. They may succeed in creating fads and conning followers of fashion into paying attention for a while, but in the long run, things which are objectively beautiful are what lasts. Yes, there is a segment of the public, driven largely by fashion and commercialism, which gravitates to ugly "music" such as rap. In a decade or so, no one will listen to that stuff.

You sneer at John Rutter's melodies as "saccharine." Are you opposed to all melodies which are sweet? Do you think Ravel's Mother Goose Suite is to be derided, or Pachelbel's Canon, or some of Bach's more lyrical melodies? These are exactly what the intelligent public likes.

Admittedly, there would be no function for critics if they merely agreed with the verdict of ordinary listeners, so to make sure you are published, you have to quarrel with the popularity of Libera and pretend that you have some superior viewpoint. Fortunately, most people in the East and West make their own decisions about what is beautiful, and they have embraced Libera. When critics veer into sneering, snide, sarcastic rhetoric, it is not merely Libera which doesn't care about them. It is pretty much everybody.

Hi again. I'll try to answer these further points too, but bear in mind that most of them can be put down to a difference of opinion rather than one of us being right or wrong. As I stated before, that's sort-of the point of criticism. (Also, I can't even find the innocents/innocence thing any more. If I was wrong, I apologise - at least I wasn't wrong in the actual review. These comments are typed somewhat blindly without spellcheck.)

The authenticity debate will never stop in popular/classical/choral music, but the use of the word "innovation" is wrong here. It is not innovative to sing a Mozart melody, by any stretch of the imagination. In my opinion, to do so renders the performance inauthentic and it's exacerbated by the breezy way it is delivered.

The robes themselves are not necessarily wrong, and at no point do I say in the review that they are - only that the use of them as a marketing tool is. It may be a tad cynical-sounding to say so, but again, it's an opinion. Robes are the expected attire for a choir, but to use them as part of the saleable whole in an effort to create an impression of innocence is not good.

I don't dispute the popularity of Libera in other parts of world, but I really do take issue with the '50,000,000 Elvis Fans Can't Be Wrong' point of view. Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's necessarily good. I'm also a little offended to be described as 'Anti-Western'. Your point about there being something objectively appealing about Libera to non-Western cultures is perfectly valid - their popularity speaks for itself - but the idea that this Western "beauty" in music is some sort of goal for all musicians to aspire to remains backwards. If all artists strived for it, the world would be a musically redundant place. Thank goodness that there are plenty of artists who deal with life's many different shades of emotion and expression, not to mention the myriad musical tools and techniques they use to achieve it.

"There is something beautiful about Libera which can be recognized by people of diverse races and cultures. That is not true of the music of every culture, or all music of Western culture."

So, what you're saying here is that Libera are the most powerful musical force in the world. Is that really the case? That only the music of Libera can be appreciated by literally all nations? That seems deluded to me.
"Maybe you should publish something in the Oriental media chastising Asians for their bad taste."

You say this as if all Asians have exactly the same taste. In fact, you make this assumption about all the nations/continents you discuss. Mass opinion rarely exists on something as fragmentary as music. There are merely some artists that are more popular than others.

"Yes, there is a segment of the public, driven largely by fashion and commercialism, which gravitates to ugly "music" such as rap. In a decade or so, no one will listen to that stuff."

If only we had the luxury of a time machine. Your blanket assumption that all rap music is ugly is unfounded, and rather more heinous than me describing Libera as musically inauthentic.

Just because I am opposed to Rutter's melodies does not mean that I am opposed to all "beautiful" music, as you put it. As you have already seen, I've reviewed some rather beautiful music for this very website.

"Admittedly, there would be no function for critics if they merely agreed with the verdict of ordinary listeners..."

This statement totally legitimises everything I've said. So thanks for that. Discourse is so very healthy.

"…so to make sure you are published, you have to quarrel with the popularity of Libera and pretend that you have some superior viewpoint."

Not a superior viewpoint, just a different one. And you saying that I've been sneering, snide and sarcastic isn't quite right - I've targeted the musical directors and marketing teams behind Libera in a sensible fashion, not outright insulted them.

Again, I hope this clears up any outstanding issues.

You are frantically trying to spin your way out of the stands you took in your original so-called "review," where you in fact recommended that Libera ditch their robes, which are their trademark and are not simply what every choir wears. The robes are very significant, because they indicate that this is a group whose roots are in traditional church music, especially chant. Fearing the hostility to church and traditional choirs, Prizeman made a bold effort to create a somewhat novel image, but now that it is clear that a large segment of the public appreciates the traditional side of Libera, their music has increasingly revealed its Christian roots, as can be seen in their recent output. I note also that every venue where Libera has appeared (or plans to appear) in the U.S. is a church service. Almost all their songs have religious lyrics, although it might take a little understanding of Latin or a minimal understanding of Christian doctrine to reveal that. This is not in fact a "New Age" group, as is often said (including by you). With the exception of their cover of Enya's Orinoco Flow, their work does not show the monotonous, aimless melodies of New Age (designed to instill an altered state of mind) nor nonsensical New Age lyrics. Their style is much closer to that of John Rutter than anything else I can think of. This is, after all, an outgrowth of a church choir, as are Rutter's Cambridge Singers. To treat them as another pop or commercial product, as you do, is neither fair nor accurate. You accuse them of cranking out their latest album to coincide with Mother's Day, although you have no evidence for that whatsoever. The group consists of schoolboys who meet a few times a week; they cannot simply produce albums on schedule to meet commercial demand. Nor do they produce "art for art's sake," ignoring what ordinary people like to hear.

Your "review" is mainly an expression of your own cynicism. You are projecting onto Libera your own worldview, which is very stereotypical and unoriginal today. In contrast, what is to be seen in Libera is a manifestation of hope, cheerful discipline, and idealism which is very unusual today.

You should never have presumed to do a "review" based on gross ignorance of your subject. You didn't do your homework. Your original post was full of errors, such as the statement that Libera had produced 17 albums, that its members were 7-10 years old (the ones who perform publicly are about 9-14, or even 9-16), that they habitually perform works by Rutter, etc.

Hello again. We seem to be going in circles somewhat. Hopefully I can clear any outstanding issues up once and for all.

As I initially stated, I stand by everything I say in the review, because it's my opinion. I think if they did get rid of the robes it would be easier to focus on the music rather than how Libera are packaged.

"Fearing the hostility to church and traditional choirs, Prizeman made a bold effort to create a somewhat novel image"

If you mean the robes, then that's hardly novel for a choir. If, on the other hand, you mean the excessive heavenly imagery that's plastered all over the CD, then that's the exact problem I have. In my opinion, there's no need to continually push this image of innocence in everyone's faces. Let the music do the talking, as it were.

"This is not in fact a "New Age" group, as is often said (including by you)."

I do not expressly say they are a new age group (in fact, I quite clearly refer to them as a choral ensemble), just that the album shares a lot of musical similarities with the genre (ethereal drones, hushed dynamics, synthesised instruments).

"You accuse them of cranking out their latest album to coincide with Mother's Day, although you have no evidence for that whatsoever."

Yes I do, I explained it in an earlier post. It came out a couple of weeks before Mother's Day. What other evidence is needed? Having worked in the industry in a role where I was able to study release schedules, I'm certain that this isn't a co-incidence. To boil it down to marketing and demographics, this is music that people buy for their mothers.

"they cannot simply produce albums on schedule to meet commercial demand."

Most large record companies and artists work many, many months in advance to ensure that this is possible.

"Your original post was full of errors"

These errors (and I think there was only one, really - the discography one) were based on the ages of those appearing on the record. The discography information was supplied by Wikipedia, which the BBC uses for its biographical content on this site. I didn't say that Libera habitually perform Rutter works, I implied that Rutter works are pretty standard repertoire at one point or another for all modern choirs.

Think that's everything, hope that's been of some help.

One last comment, because you are really incorrigible. You wrote a review which was inaccurate, focused on visual imagery rather than music, and was designed to steer people away from their new CD. When challenged to provide evidence that the release date was contrived to coincide with Mother's Day, you provide no proof. Libera are not typical commercial artists. They are a parish church choir of boys who attend regular schools full time. Their church is neither large, nor rich, nor very old. It's remarkable that they accomplish so much within those time constraints, but they do not produce music to meet deadlines, except those of singing every week at their church services. The age of the boys can be found on Libera's website and numerous videos. You say you got your info from Wikipedia, which clearly states that the ages range from 7 to 16. (The younger ones do not perform publicly.) You clearly state that their style is a mix of New Age and classical. There are few if any "drones," as you put it, the dynamics are highly variable, the instrumentation is often not sparse, but downright orchestral, and there is certainly nothing exclusively New Age about electronic instruments. (Anyone wanting to hear monotonous, mind-numbing droning should listen to your friend Omar Suleyman!) New Age music does not feature explicitly Christian lyrics, either. Brian Wilson correctly noted the similarity between Libera's harmonies and those of his Beach Boys, who predate New Age by about almost half a century, not that Wilson invented that style of singing, either.

Libera's robes are a departure from traditional boys' choir robes, just as their singing style is. Their costumes are part of their image, just as that of your pa Omar Suleyman. Actually, the two have something in common: both do music which arises out of a culture and has a cultural function. Omar's is basically a wedding dance band. Libera is basically a church choir. Neither does music just to impress artistes and self-styled critics like you. A segment of the Western public seems to have been attracted to Omar because, I think, his music resembles the monotonous industrial techno dance music of the urban West. There is nothing unique or original in his music; it is pretty much standard Middle Eastern noise, but you tout it while running down the melodic and sweet Libera. That says nothing about the music, but lots about you.

Again, you have no demographic evidence whatsoever that Libera is "music people buy for their mothers." I certainly didn't buy it for that reason. Looking at the videos, the fan base in Asia seem to be concentrated among young women. In Western venues, the audience ranges widely in age and is of both genders; it looks pretty much like a typical classical-music audience. The venues they will be playing in the U.S. are all churches, in some of which they will sing at regular services, just as they do in England. Do you think only old women attend church? Not hardly, at least in the American South.

Dealing with you is almost like shooting fish in a barrel, but as long as you persist in defending you indefensible review, here goes:

You say that "we" are going around in circles. It is you who are going around in circles, Ross.

In your original post, you deride Libera's robes as being some kind of stunt to promote a commercial image: "the cult-ish robes," you call them. In your latest post, you now say the robes are nothing unusual for a choir. Fact: The robes are identical to the ones the boys wear in their home church. They are also identical to the ones worn by the adult members of that church choir. Conclusion: The robes are not a marketing gimmick.

As for the timing of the album release, it's a safe bet that gangsta rap and heavy metal albums were released at about the same time. Should we conclude that those albums are meant to be bought for Mother's Day gifts?

Give it up, Ross. Your ignorant, uninformed, and deceptive review would be just a pathetic joke except that you chose to attack something fine and decent.

Hello again. Hopefully this will put an end to it. All I've done so far is offer answers to your points - I only aim to clarify these points further, where possible.

I believe I cleared up the Mother's Day release date issue in my last post. It came out just before Mother's Day because, whether they're the actual demographic or not (they are), the perception amongst record companies is that mothers would like to receive this album as a gift.

They absolutely are typical commercial artists. They may be non-profit on their own, but they release albums on one of the largest labels in the country, making them a well and truly commercial product, industrially speaking.

What does Brian Wilson saying Libera's vocals are similar to the Beach Boys have to do with anything? Their vocals aren't that similar, come to think of it.

"There is nothing unique or original in his [Omar Souleyman's] music; it is pretty much standard Middle Eastern noise,"

An incredible statement. Would you care to describe "standard Middle Eastern noise"?

"As for the timing of the album release, it's a safe bet that gangsta rap and heavy metal albums were released at about the same time. Should we conclude that those albums are meant to be bought for Mother's Day gifts?"

No. We should conclude that Peace was strategically released at that time to maximise sales. Few mothers (and I speak from an industrial point of view) would be that bothered about gangsta rap and heavy metal albums, but then again, there aren't really any advantageous times of year for those releases.

The robes. Of course they are traditional, but in this context and presentation they appear cult-ish to me. In my opinion.

"Your ignorant, uninformed, and deceptive review would be just a pathetic joke except that you chose to attack something fine and decent."

Again, it's a differing opinion to your own. If you don't agree with it I'm more than willing to debate the points as we have done so far.

Thanks, hope that's of some help.

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