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24 September 2014

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Rangers invasion: your views

After the Rangers invasion for the 2008 UEFA Cup Final, Manchester has been left with some big questions to answer. Why did a joyful carnival of football end in chaos, violence and devastation? And was it all badly managed? What's your view?

Aerial shot of Rangers fans in Piccadilly Gardens

Blue invasion [photo by Richard Turner]

It was always going to put a massive strain on the city. An invasion of up to 200,000 Rangers supporters for the UEFA Cup Final in Manchester swamped the city’s pubs and bars and the dedicated fan zones.

Initially, the celebrations were good natured as a sea of Scots in replica shirts turned the city blue. The sun was shining and, with retailers keen to cash in, the beer flowed. And flowed. And then flowed some more.

The clean up in Piccadilly Gardens

Fans left 7.5 tonnes of rubbish

But as kick off approached, the party mood turned sour. Fan zones were full to bursting and, in the scramble to find a screen, confusion reigned.

Then disaster: at 7.30pm, the big screen in the fan zone in Piccadilly Gardens failed leaving 25,000 fans angry and with nowhere to watch the game.

Ugly scenes then erupted as a minority of supporters clashed with riot police. Others tried in vain to find their way to a screen at the Velodrome. But it was all too late.

Your views

What was your experience? And who's to blame for what went wrong? The fans, the city council or the police? Bad planning? Poor communication? Too much beer in the sun? Or did Manchester bite off more than it could chew?

Gavin, 23 in Dundee

Although no-one is 'blaming football' as a sport itself, Anthony Baldwin from Wigan makes a good point about other sports, such as rugby league, which in the North West/East of England ostensibly come from a tough, working class culture which likes a drink. We don't however see these kinds of scenes at the Challenge Cup final when two northern clubs take thousands of fans down to Cardiff, London or up to Murrayfield The differences between these fans and the Rangers supporters are numerous and cultural, and the inevitable intimidatory atmosphere (inevitable that is when Rangers supporters are involved) seems to have been stoked by too much alcohol and sun, and ignited by the result. Anyone who has witnessed Glasgow city centre at 3am on a Saturday night when the clubs come out knows what the Mancunians are talking about, and the sheer number of fans will only have made things worse. Bad organisation or not, I would like to apologise to the people of Manchester for the conduct of some of my fellow countrymen. Treating your city in this way is a disgrace. As a Scot I am ashamed, although sadly not totally surprised.

Alexander King, 22 in Helensburgh, Scotland

Many of the complaints displayed here revolve around the amount of litter created and public urination. However in Manchester yesterday there was a severe lack of bins and refuse removal systems, and it took me until 10pm until I laid eyes on my first line of portaloos. With so many people crammed into three small central public areas the lack of organisation created a tinderbox atmosphere. This was further fanned by the apparent signal breakdown from the large screen which displayed the message 'Go to the Velodrome' - with many people, including myself, asking where it is and how do we get there? - highlighting shortcomings with a lack of general information and basic signposting directing people throughout the day. On the issue of glass, I was shocked to see the official beer tents selling glass bottled lager, is this even allowed at an open air event of such nature? There was many things wrong about yesterday in Manchester City centre, but the eventual thuggish behaviour of those who chose to tag along has left me deeply embarrassed, and for that there is no excuse.

Scott Richards, 37, Deptford, NJ, USA

Remind me again what obligation the city of Manchester had to provide police and big screens for people who had no tickets? Why should the taxpayers of Manchester foot the bill for something they received no benefit from whatsoever? It is fascinating to me that Rangers "fans" crucify the police and city of Manchester, but does a big screen not working give license for assaulting innocent civilians, rescue workers, and police? If I was a police officer, I would have a department wide, one-day "sick out" to remind the Tories of the value these hard-working police officers bring to the community. Rangers FC owes the city of Manchester a huge apology for not telling its' fans don't bother making the trip if you can't get in the door. They threw the city of Manchester under the bus.

Chris, 30, in Manchester

I work in Manchester city centre and yesterday’s events were unbelievable! You could tell from very early on (7am Wednesday) that the potential for trouble was high, due to the sheer levels of intoxication and numbers of Rangers fans. By mid-afternoon thousands of drunken fans (NOT IN DESIGNATED FAN-ZONES) were causing chaos in the city centre, urinating in shop/office door-ways in broad-daylight, verbally abusing members of the public, chanting sectarian songs, smashing glass and dropping litter everywhere. Many businesses closed early for fear of/because of trouble. It is a misconception that trouble was caused by a minority as far as I’m concerned and I certainly don’t accept that Manchester city council or GMP were to blame for any of this, other than agreeing to host this event knowing that Rangers got to the final.

Richie, 25, in Glasgow

The Rangers fans are an utter disgrace. None of this happened in Seville in 2003 or even the Roy Keane testimonial in Manchester, so please don't tar all of Glasgow, or Scotland, with the same brush. I feel bad for the people of Manchester.

Stu Birchall, 35 in Manchester

I completely agree with Deborah Bartlett's comments. The council leadership treat the city like a plaything or giant toy town, with no regard whatsover for the people who live and work here, and who have businesses that only stand to lose from such events. MCCs appetite for new social and sporting events is egotistical, greedy and faintly meglomanical. We don't want our city turning into an open air concert venue, running track or sports arena. It's a community where people pay council tax to live and work. The situation over the past two days saw public order compromised, infrastructure services disrputed and people's lives put at risk. Ask any of the people LIVING here what they thought of the 'carnival atmosphere' The council leadership is a disgrace. How many of them actually live within the city boundaries and how much time do they actually spend here? I hope Manchester residents remember this come the next local election. And to cancel the screens for the MANCHESTER united game? It's disgracefully ironic.

Pete, 31, in Lancaster

I shared a train into Manchester, arriving Piccadilly at midday, with hundreds of Rangers fans. There was good natured banter and a cheerful mood all round. Yet even then it was clear trouble could be ahead: But I didn't anticipate the level of violence which would follow. Given the case histories of large cities hosting big matches, this case of foul, pathetic, and downright stupid behaviour undertaken by some of the fans should have been anticipated, and hence better handled. That's not to let those childish, cowardly thuggish Rangers fans off any of the responsibility - indeed, they did a disservice to their team, to Glasgow and to their country. But it mustn't be overlooked that they were actively invited to come to Manchester and encouraged to drink by the decision to allow public drinking. In my opinion, the city council should be held liable for contributory negligence. The police action I saw seemed fair and by no means disproportionate to the violence being aimed at them, paramedics, big screen engineers and - perhaps most regrettably of all - innocent bystanders trying to make their home.

Neil, 36, in Manchester

So the Scottish Tories think Manchester police over reacted do they? If I was on MCC i would be sending the Scottish junta a bill for the clean up costs of their boozed up incoherent wasters who decided to turn our city into a replica of a landfill site, I thought Hadrian's Wall was supposed to keep these savages at bay?

Mark, 25, in Chester

As a Rangers fan, I decided to sample the atmosphere in the city. i got into the city centre about 6 30 pm to be greeted by a carnival type atmosphere ok the screen broke it was 5 minutes into the game before any reaction was made and this 100% was caused by the police at entrance to the fan park on Piccadilly this theme ran all thou the night some police i encountered were extremely helpful and directed fans it was not until the police with batons and riot gear charged and started to use there batons with NO reason i for one was completely sober and own my own and was treated like this in Manchester by a part of a unorganised arrogant and completely unlawful police force i feel i can say this and have the bruises to prove it !!! I also would like to add that a small minority of fans should not have reacted to the way they were treated by some of the police force but today after reflecting on it all i do not blame them . so the city is a mess do people blame UEFA, Manchester city council, Rangers FC Zenit or the police well i can tell you it for me 100% the police they got this wrong on a huge scale. PS i wont even start on the rumour that the screen was turned off for health and saftey reasons to many people in the 'zone' ??????????????

Andrew McDonald, 55 in Manchester

Words fail me...This says it all, Scottish Prime minister, Scottish Chancellor, We the stupid English tolerate this from the Scottish thugs and lowlifes, they are smiling and laughing at valdalising our city. Collect all the rubbish using every person who wants to be paid. Load into a large fleet of trucks. Send them to Glasgow and dump it in front of their town hall. Mind you they would'nt notice, the city is a dump anyway. Bit like ours now they have finished with it. Thats it. I'm emigrating.

Paul, 24, in Manchester

"Shame on Manchester" more like shame on Scotland id be embarrassed to say the least if i was Scottish. The mess they have left our city in is appalling. I live in the city centre and the views from my balcony were shocking (urinating/fighting/drunken states) and waking up from what very little sleep i had and having to smell the stench in the air this morning was unbelievable. The Rangers fans are blaming this on a faulty screen more like the amount of alcohol consumed through the day and being unable to control themselves they should all be ashamed. We welcome them to our city only for it to be trashed, walking through town to work this morning was more like walking through a giant tip! The council shouldn't take all the blame i agree they could have been considerate for city residents and workers but this is down to Rangers you only need to look at the footage of the night to see that and now as a result of them we now lose the privilege of watchin our own team on the big screens in our own city!! 

Marcus Jackson, 20, Manchester

Absolute disgrace! But what did they expect? 100,000 yobs on the back of a cup final defeat?! Nearly ran about 10 over on my drive home from the gym as they lay drunk or asleep in the road on Deansgate!

Anon, 35, in Bury

whenever theirs a football match that involves any of the scottish teams u end up with town full of them no matter whether its Scotland itself or 1 of their national team.th thing is they dont have to be a rangers or zenith supporter or fan it could of easily of been someone whose not a football fan of either the 2 teams? but someone who turns up wanting to start or cause trouble.also how did the person who stabbed that zenith fan get passed the security carrying a knife or whatever was used. blunt object  or bs ait WHY didnt m/c council not put up notices & signs banning alcohol everywhere in & around m/c shops that sell any alcoholic drink it would of been a quite & trouble free day but it wasnt and the end result proved it it doesnt have to be fans of scottish and foreign teams but by or between any english team includin any local or none local teams etc.ive read m/c city council are not going 2 show the champions league match between man-utd & chelsea on the big screens next week have they forgot to do the same by not showing the FA Cup Final this saturday coming!also any forthcoming Cup related matches in the near future?

Gareth Wane, 28, in Stockport

What a great day.  I didn't have any trouble.  Had a few beers.  Chatted to some very drunk Scots.  They had a good time. I left M'cr and headed back to Stockport 20 mins before kick off as I knew I wasn't gonna be able to see a screen or tv.  I did think the screens were too small and was surprised that there weren't at least 2 in Picc Gardens.
Good old press making out Manchester have done badly in the organisation.  they did amazingly.  What other situation would you see that many people flodding into one city for one day. Congrats to all involved. It was just a shame it broke and there was bound to be a bit of trouble.

Stuart, 21, in Manchester

Rangers fans were appalling; fans fighting each other, drunk, urinating, rude, mocking English people that went by, total disregard for people who have to live in the city. The city this morning smells, its filthy and fans were still drinking!! Total mess... This game affected everyone in the city for the past two days, thank god they've gone home! I have been to Glasgow before and wouldn't dream of doing what they did to our city.

Russell Yates, 37, in Manchester

I am amazed at the reactions to yesterday's events. I live in the city centre of Manchester, along with thousands of others. For Richard Leese to suggest that the majority of fans were peaceful and that only a few fans caused severe problems did not obviously visit Manchester city centre yesterday. Riots perhaps can be expected, football does not exactly attract the more delicate citizens into its fold, but even if there had been no rioting, it is not something that anyone would want on their doorstep. The city centre was a war zone by 4pm. I did not buy an apartment in the centre of Manchester to live in the middle of a football pitch, or actually, a toilet. It would be impossible for anyone not having been in the city centre to imagine how awful it really was, more reminiscent of the first day of '28 Days Later' than a celebration of any kind. We were constantly being told throughout the day that the 'event' would bring in £25m to Manchester city centre. However it would appear that the only gains were made by hotels and pubs. Employees working in the city centre turned up late due to congestion or were sent home as shops closed early. Many others simply stayed away. Transport in and out of the centre was cancelled. Residents, workers and shoppers were abused. It has been reported that no ambulances would enter the city centre after 9.30am without a police escort. Helicopters continued throughout the night. Presumably for all this inconvenience and withdrawal of services, residents will be receiving a Council Tax rebate (?)

I would be interested to know who will pay for this ‘fabulous’ event. How much of the expected £25m windfall made by those lucky companies aimed at this end of the market will pay for the police, security, street cleaning, destroyed bus shelters and street lamps, and simply restoring the terrible reputation that anyone other than someone involved in these ‘festivities’ visiting Manchester city centre for the first time yesterday undoubtedly left with, never to return.

I would like to draw parallels with the city’s ‘policing’ of the annual Manchester Pride event, something which is not on the same scale but which costs hundreds of thousands to police and manage, the cost of which must be paid for out of revenue gained from the sale of ‘charity’ ticket sales – money which is diverted away from the good causes it was set up to assist – and in addition which by its nature and clientele is good natured and in my opinion over policed (compared to last night which was clearly under resourced given the additional reinforcements that were required). This should never have been allowed to happen in the city centre which is now a heavily populated residential area. Residents were not consulted on this and I’m sure if they were they would not wish to see a repeat of yesterday.

Deborah Bartlett

Apparently the presence of the Rangers fans generated c. £20 million for city centre businesses - mainly bars and booze shops I imagine. The greedy members of the chamber of commerce  and other 'considerate' members of Manchester City Council - i.e. those who decided to allow  this violent fiasco to take place, should personally take part in removing all the filth and mess from the streets. I, along with hundreds of others, was seriously affected by an event which was of no interest to me.  Traffic disruptions in the city centre led to me having to negotiate my way through pavements covered in newspapers, broken glass, discarded cans, with intimidating drunken crowds pushing me on all sides. I had to walk from Piccadilly Station to Victoria in order to travel home by Metrolink.  I am disabled and have to use a walking stick so this journey was long and slow and painful. The noise that the Rangers fans created added to the discomfort, and the sight of many of them urinating in public was disgusting. Clearly, the prospect of certain people making huge profits overrode the consideration that a large number of Mancunians would be seriously inconvenienced by this event.

Stacey, 23, Manchester

The technical fault was unfortunate, but these things happen. So what? Manchester is now being criticised for not having a crystal ball and the ability to predict this technical favour.Yesterday the council invited 100000 Rangers fans into the city, relaxed street drinking laws, set up 3 city centre fan zones and last minute buses for those who were affect by the screen breaking, to get to the Velodrome where they could watch it. Personally, I think Manchester did more than enough. How disgusting that a proportion of Rangers fans saw fit to behave in an appalling manner firstly because of a techincal glitch and then because their team lost. Pathetic. If the same service was to be put on for the Champions League final next week, fan zones and a relaxed atmosphere, I am sure there'd be no trouble. That's because as Mancunians we respect our city. That minority of Rangers fans clearly were unable to define respect, let alone display it.

Tom Elder, 19 in Salford

I was working until past 10pm last night at the MEN arena and was disgraced at the way the council handled this event. My friend had to meet up with me, terrified because he had been chased by a mob of angry fans post match for simply refusing to sing rangers chants. We then had to walk our way home to Salford for a good hour due to literally no public transport being running, through hoards of violent and disrespectful fans, and to top everything off my uniform includes a green and white t shirt (the colour of rangers' biggest rivals for the non-football fans). I can't condem every fan i passed as a mindless thug though, some were actually apologetic to me as a local for the way their fellow countrymen had behaved. All in all though as has been said before this event was always a recipe for disaster and am even more disappointed that as a Man United fan our gatherings next week will now be cancelled because of this atrocity, putting local people in the same bracket as these "trash the place and leave" hoodlums is simply not acceptable.

MOT, 61 in Manchester

I can understand the Rangers fans being in the party mood, but what happened to the big screen? Why if Manchester City Council knew they were going to get an invasion of fans, why didn't they think of opening up all the other football grounds to accommodate all these people? In M/C there is Old Trafford plus other grounds that could have been used. All this has done for the fans of our island is to set us back to where we were over ten years, the eyes of the world will only see us as a mob once again. MCC need to organise these events with their eyes wide open.

Jo Manuel, 21, Manchester

I think it was a disgusting display. I agree with the comments above, when this was all being planned who was thinking about the residents of Manchester? No one. We pay high prices to live in the city centre and there was no consideration or warning given to us. It took me an hour to get through the masses of sunburned men brandishing horns and beer cans, and shouting offensive slurs. It was a frightening experience. The city looks a mess littered and stinking. Why did these people even feel the need to come here if they didn't have a ticket to watch the game? They should be ashamed of thier disgraceful behaviour.

Joel, 22, in Manchester

Most people have echoed my sentiments exactly in this thread. There was never any "joyful carnival" atmosphere. The nationalistic and drunken Rangers fans behaved like animals. I'd go as far as saying this was the vast majority of them. I had to get home from town around 5.30PM yesterday, and even by then, the centre had been completely trashed and was rapidly turning into a war zone. It ws one of the most intimidating moments of my life. Their behaviour was disgusting, and they were a disgrace to both Glasgow and to Scotland.

Carly Beatson, 26, Manchester

We invited the people of Glasgow here to watch the game, all I saw on the North West news yesterday was reports about the amount of money that the city was going to make. If the council invites people here to watch the game it should be well organised the police presence was not as high as it should have been and contingency plans should have been in place by the council to deal with a failure of the tv screens, it was estiamted that the Manchester economy benefited from yesterday to the tune of £20 million, why wasn't some of this money spent on organisation?

Debra, 53, in Manchester

I was shocked at the behaviour of some football supporters yesterday, in particular the 6 who urinated over a car mid aftrnoon outside my place of work and in full view of the window. Today I am in disbelief at the state of my city and the rubbish representing the remains of yesterday's out of control behaviour by drunken football supporters. I cannot believe that a human being would defecate on a football scarf and leave it on the pavement but yes there it was with the discarded beer packaging. Utterly disgusting. All this in a city that bans drinking on the street and fines children and their parents for dropping wooden ice lolly sticks and pie crumbs. Richard Leese and Pat Karney should hang their heads in shame. There is no excuse at all and the law should have been observed. It's sad that the events of yesterday have spoiled the view that many people have of our beautiful city. 

Simon, 29, in Manchester

You can't blame this on football. Did the same happen when AC Milan and Juve played here in the Champions league final? no!! What a idiot to blame it on a game, stay in Wigan and eat your pies!!!! The council has to take the blame for this, the organisation was shocking. Today Manchester city centre stinks, I walked to work this morning with rubbish and smashed glass everywhere, the clean up has been too slow.

Alistair Reid, 47, in Aberdeen

Although I have nothing to do with Glasgow or Rangers, as a Scot I apologise to the people of Manchester for the appalling behaviour of those people I am ashamed to call my country men.  Having nothing to do all day is simply not an excuse.  They didn't have to get drunk, sing their offensive songs, intimdate local and urinate in the streets.  Why even go to Manchester if they didn't have a ticket?  Morons.

L, 27, in Rochdale

Thanks to Manchester Council for its consideration of Manchester's non football fan ordinary citizens. As someone who is six months pregnant, having to walk from Picaddily Train Station down to Victoria station ploughing my way through hoards of drunken, thuggish and volatile football fans was a frightening and thoroughly stressful experience. Why can't these people behave like human beings? And, where was the provision for the regular people of Manchester? Who cares about us?! We can be left to fend off the animals!

Leila Fielding, 27, Manchester

Thanks to Manchester City Council for a sleepless 2 days, have you any consideration for the residents of the city centre that pay a premium price to be quite literally kept awake all night and worried about leaving the apartment! Also it will be the Manchester residents that suffer because of these antics, rubbish everywhere, stinking streets, empty shops and cash machines and the cancellation of the champions league on big screens, look after your own I say to the council, that is certainly what those scots were doing for the last 2 days! Really pathetic!

Kitty, 25, in Withington

Why is everyone so shocked this happened?! Every resident of Manchester knew this would be a bad idea... and we knew it would be even worse if the team were to lose. And what is with all the fans drinking in the streets without being reprimanded? I thought it was illegal to drink on the streets of Manchester! Looks like the council will do anything to bring in a few quid!

Leon, 26, in Thomas

The behaviour of a substantial proportion of the Rangers fans was atrocious. They seemed to think that drinking from 7am was somehow acceptable, and everyone with an ounce of sense could see where it would all end.  The failure of ONE of three screens is not an excuse to reduce an entire area of the city to a war zone.  This morning every single street was filthy, with even the war memorial in St. Peter's Square used as a dumping ground and public toilet by hordes of inebriated Glaswegians. Manchester has hosted the Commonwealth Games and the Champions League Final and I have never, never seen people treat a host city with such total disrespect.

Rupert Kendal, 24, in Manchester

Whilst it is undeniable that events such as last-night’s provide an injection of money for the city, it forgets the needs and concerns of a significant proportion of the local population.  My father has spent his entire working life in central Manchester.  Now a pensioner coming into his city to help his old firm on an advisory role, I found him distressed by the sheer volume of people and alcohol.  It was when I lost count of how many times he had been knocked off his course by the beer-belly-bared lager-fuelled fan amidst a soundtrack of sectarian songs that I concluded that even without any bad behaviour, these situations are deeply intimidating and unfair towards vulnerable people who have no choice but to use their own city.  Naturally one cannot prevent people travelling, but to have tankers of beer; a complete disregard for the law and a statement by the local council (North-West Tonight, 14/5/08) welcoming those without tickets to the city with open arms suggests the situation we found ourselves in yesterday was exactly what the city wanted.  I'm not so sure all of us did, and the assumption is exemplary of Manchester’s endemic tendencies to ignore those without a strong voice who get in the way of a chance for capital.

Mike Smith, 48, in Stalybridge

I had a reservation on the 0745 train to Edinburgh this morning. I arrived at the station and was met by hundreds of drunk and still drinking Rangers supporters. The station was quite frankly trashed. Vomit, cigarette butts, bottles, cans. The scene was appauling. The platform was 10 deep in supporters who didn't have tickets but poured onto the train anyway and invaded every inch. I got onto to the train then was unable to get from the lobby to the carriage. A police officer advised me to get off, which i did with great difficulty. The police and train authorities didn't care and quite rightly whether these people had tickets, they simply wanted them out of the city. This is a disaster for Manchester, there was less damage after the IRA bomb!

Anna, 23, in Manchester

As a Manchester resident who lives in the city centre I would like to say that I was disgusted by the behaviour of the Rangers fans. I live on the north side of the city and, due to the locations of the dedicated 'fan zones' and the halting of public transport, had no option but to walk through the Rangers fans to get home last night at around 8pm. On my way home I witnessed dozens and dozens of fans urinating on shops, on a church, in alleys, in the street - just everywhere. They were rude and abusive towards my friend and I as we struggled to get through the crowd to our flat which is just on the other side of the Cathedral Garden fan zone. Furthermore we were kept awake last night by the helicopter which was hovering overhead 'til god knows what hour and the shouting of angry fans. I appreciate that this kind of event brings a lot of revenue to the city, but it was to the detriment of the residents of the city centre. This morning the city is absolutely covered in broken glass, empty beer cans, discarded food and various other unsavoury items. I feel for the council workers who were out first thing this morning doing a sterling job in clearing up the carnage - I hope that they are being paid extra to clean up the terrible mess that has been left. The city has an aroma of urine and stale lager and it is disgusting. I am baffled by the decision of the council to put on such an event - the fans who travelled down to Manchester for the game should feel ashamed of themselves.

Chris, 42, in Manchester

What do you expect when you let 100,000 drunken football fans descend on a city, any city? this kind of event demands detailed planning with multiple contingency plans in place to meet whatever eventuality that may arise. Better to let these big games take place in one of the cities involved, instead of a neutral ground. The pubs/bars/off licences should all cough up somethng as they are the ones who cashed in on fuelling them all with limitless alcohol which certainly sparked any violence. And are Glasgow and St. Petersburg going to be forced to foot the clean up/policing bill? After all, it was their denizens who caused all the havoc!

Steve, 45, in Manchester

If you wanted to let fans without tickets see the game, where would you NOT want them near?? ANSWER:- The STADIUM. So where did MANCHESTER City COUNCIL put one of the screens? THE VELODROME opposite the STADIUM - how STUPID is that??
WHY did they not use the G-Mex?

Eleanor Ashworth, 24, in Manchester

I think the council should be ashamed of itself for the poor organisation, did they really think 100,000 Rangers fans drunk in the middle of the city centre, was not a recipe for disaster? What did they think the outcome might be if Rangers lost? Which they unfortunately did. Fighting was bound to erupt with that many people all shoved together. Its lucky no-one was seriously injured, it only takes one broken glass bottle in someone's neck . They should have had people cleaning up all day so the amount of litter was not so dense. They should have thought about having a screening in Heaton Park or somewhere away from the centre where it would be not be so disruptive to us. Or why not use Old Trafford? Obviously all they were thinking about was the 25 million the council stand to make which no doubt will be used on something completely useless to Manchester and not schools or hospitals or more police, Similarly I think the state of town this morning does a major discredited to Glaswegians, if a load of United supporters went and wrecked their city and left so much rubbish I don't think they would be happy. Ok so the screen broke , these things can happen, the way it seems our city was disrespected is a disgrace and I'm sure leaves a bad opinion of Rangers fans in most peoples minds. Its just a shame their reputation has now been marred by a few idiots. I think Glasgow is a brilliant city and lived there for a short while, there is no way would I think of treating it the way Manchester was treated yesterday. It makes us all look stupid as a ''United Kingdom" and is just another example of how we now live in a society void of any respect or regard for others.

Dean Stanley, 39, in Manchester

On the train coming home to Manchester had to help two female passengers with babies to safety! utter chaos, alchohol induced violence and abuse!!! It was like being in a zombie horror movie. We were given protection by a member of staff whilst fans banged on windows, vomitted and urinated  everywhere. Totally disappointed at the visitors' lack of respect! What thanks for a positive warm welcome? You should have been in my shoes and to all those cab drivers who turned a woman with a baby away to make more money from fans!! shame on you. I dont think the whole story will come out for a few days. Dont blame a tv screen failing for justifying violence blame the amount of Alcohol that was consumed that caused your anger! would be nice to see some blue shirts cleaning up today.

Mr Beds, 39 in Manchester

Yesterday Councillor Pat Karney went on GMR full of beans and promising world class service. Later in the day we see him having a go at Tesco - for doing what every retailer was doing - raking in the extra £20m we were promised. The council failed to plan therefore planned to fail. Where were the provisions toilets, rubbish collectors, tested screens, contingencies? Funnily enough no sign of Mr Karney today!!

Mandy Adamson, 48 from Clitheroe

I don't understand why the game was hosted in Manchester and what the powers that be hoped to gain for Mancunians.  The national chains, such as Tesco, Sainsburys, McDonalds and Travel Lodge did well out of it, but what about the ordinary traders of Manchester?  As someone who works in Manchester, it has been two days of disruption to get to get to and from work and dismay at seeing our lovely city resembling a rubbish bin/public toilet this morning.  I know the media talked about a "street party", but frankly as a woman I found it all vaguely threatening.  There was the underlying fear that the mix of beer and over-excitement meant things could kick off at any moment and of course they did. I also find it astonishing that a couple of weeks ago, when a community support officer accused a man of dropping an apple core in Swinton, he was kept in police cells for hours.  Looking in disbelief at the rubbish around today, it clearly seems to be one rule for the average citizen and different rule when the big corporations want to boost their profits.

Anon, 25, in Stockport

I could even get to the train staion after 10hr shift at work. I asked a police women could i please go round the back of them and they made me walk thought the middle of the crowd. The fact im 5'1 girl didn't help me wile im being groped. just like to thank the police for not doing there job well.

Tam, 36, in Jedburgh

Why the hell did they set up fan zone in the city centre? you cant say that the council and police did not know about the numbers strathclyde police and rangers football club told them to expect 100,000+ in no way do i condone the conduct of a handful of idiots .However if there was a pop concert with 100,000 fans how many arrests would there have been?

Theo, 23, in Manchester

As the sirens continued to blare at 1am, Manchester sounded like a worn torn country. The state that our city has been left in is disgusting and now Rangers fans get to leave it all behind whilst we have to cope with gradually getting back to normality!
Shame on Scotland and shame on Glasgow.

Andrew Oliver, 27, in Manchester

100,000 rangers fans + supermarket selling boxes of discounted booze + nothing to do all day till the match kicks off = trouble. We the residents man Manchester saw this coming so why did the police and the council not see it. Keeps the big screens for sports events but IT MUST BE CONTROLED AND WITH A FREE TICKET. PS. I also had to pick my 2 year old son up from a city centre nursery. His face said it all. Today he does not want to go out, he is scared.

Marc Goergen, 40, in Manchester

Richard Leese, Leader of Manchester City Council, should resign. I walked through Manchester city centre, past the Town Hall, yesterday at 2pm. Things were already out of control at that time. There were broken glass bottles everywhere, and Rangers fan urinating against the wooden doors of the Town Hall. To my surprise, there was very little police presence. I am afraid CCTV cameras and helicopters are not the answer to keeping 100,000 football support under control!

Fabian, 31, in Manchester

Frankly this was inevitable, and the blame has to lie with football as a whole. Bear in mind that some of us, even in Manchester, are not football fans. My perception, gained from a lifetime of extensively reported examples, is that wherever football goes drunken violence follows. The 'beautiful game' is the only sport that carries such a reputation to such an extent. Look at one case study: a chap on the local news, clearly already drunk by late afternoon, proudly (and very loudly) exclaimed that he would be sleeping on a bench since he had not had the forethought to arrange accommodation. If I went to Glasgow, drank on a street corner from noon, shouted at passers-by, then fell asleep on a bench, I would expect to be arrested as a vagrant. But, in the name of football, we bend the law to allow his unruly behaviour. The truly sad thing is that this guy wasn't an isolated voice in an otherwise reasonable crowd. He was closer to being a spokesman for the entire heaving mob. Make no mistake, this was not a good-natured crowd of charming fans as reported - this was an aggressive, alcohol-fuelled pack of animals who made it difficult for local residents to even enter the city centre. The answer to this issue has to come from within football's governing bodies. They should not expect cities to police their events if they can't guarantee a reasonable level of fan behaviour. Yesterday's behaviour was not reasonable by any definition: Oh, the television broke, well let's commit criminal damage instead.

Al, 36, in Manchester

I worked in a City Centre bar all day yesterday. The place was packed with about 150 Rangers fans singing their hearts out till 7pm when we closed. All I can say is that from my point of view the behaviour of the fans I met was impeccable. Later that night I walked out of a bar on Portland Street to see what appeared to be a baton charge by the Police against two or three guys peacefully eating kebabs and a stray dog... all of whom looked pretty bemused by the situation. Heavy-handed policing?

Liz, 23, in Manchester

Manchester Council and the Media (that's you BBC NW!) have used completely the wrong language. They have continually called this an "invasion" - it was in fact an invitation for people to come to Manchester. In calling it an invasion they set the tone for a loutish violence. We should learn from this - it would be a shame for Manchester to shy away from hosting these events, but they need to be carefully planned & managed, and local media and PR need to be sensitive about how they convey events. 

Anthony Baldwin in Wigan

Same old football, Same old fans, Cretins the lot of them. Rangers are meant to be a placid set of fans.  Drunken yobs fighting and smashing things up. Football has a herd mentality and people follow the next man like lemmings.  There is no other sports to support according to the media. In Wigan we have a choice between rugby league and football.  We have chosen rugby league. Families on a great day out. Thousands of opposing fans together with no trouble. Fans mingling and banter and drink flowing. This is what sport is about. Football, the beautiful game?  Disgraceful.

Rob G in Manchester

Shame on manchester city council, terrible organistation and to not have the screen working was disgusting. ruined the atmosphere, reflects terribly on manchester.

Lucy in Manchester

i live in an apartment in the city and nipped out just to see what the atmosphere was like. i was surprised it wasn't menacing in the slightest, very very busy and a bit unerving that everyone was drunk!! the worst thing is our city is trashed, it smells like a cesspit and broken glass and urine everywhere you step

Tony in Manchester

I've just got back from Manchester after leaving and giving a lift to people who were too scared to walk home.  There are riot police everywhere.. the residents weren't warned of this, and the streets are full of urine and sick.  I was scared of running people over as they're lying drunk in the streets.  It's a shambles.. this should never be allowed to happen again... The cleanup will come out of our council tax as usual.  Keep the glasgow fans in glasgow.  Why are they here anyway?

Gemma in Manchester

I think Rangers fans saying 'shame on Manchester' for the technical fault on one of the screens is disgusting. They were then put on buses to see another screen. I'd like to see if the Scots would be as welcoming if one of our local teams played there.

Adam, 17, in Manchester

I went into manchester to watch the game an was clever enough not to wear my shirt. the atmosphere was friendly and everyone was having a laugh until rangers went 1-0 down. then the happy funny rangers fans turned! they got violent an because we are english turned on us. we left 5 mins before the end to get away an thought why are we running when this is our city and home?

Your views on the Rangers invasion of Manchester:

last updated: 19/06/2008 at 12:02
created: 15/05/2008

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