B,C&T
Thank God for that!! Hooray!!!

stephen
city of culture 2008 . the world in one city

Annie
Build a bridge, a viewing tower, a big wheel, an eiffle tower, a 'bridgewater' hall. We are so far behind so many cities ... we need parks .. look at Central, Hyde and Tivoli gardens in Copenhagen .. we need a decent theatre, an ice rink, a dance hall .. City Council .. stop the talking and start doing!

Bob Blundell
Now the the 4th Grace has been stood down. Show Liverpool what a great Port City she is. Hack out the whole of Mann Island and with the dry dock already there put in one of the Queens like they have in States. What a wonderful sight that would be for the City of Culture and for visiters and spend the rest of money saved on building a bridge near the ship across the Mersey. The sight would rival Sydney Harbour bridge and their Opera House. Come on Liverpool! Now you've blown that 'Cloud' away! Get the horse and cart out and start shifting the dirt and make it happen with a sensible 4th Grace. And also to fit in with the Albert Dock close by. So find yourself a good Engineer and get stuck in.

Philip Osborne
I don't live in Liverpool but the majority of my family are from there and I visit often. I think the biggest mistake made was to select this design. It's important for Liverpool to progress and modernise. However, surely one of the key qualities of the Fourth Grace should have been ... well ... grace! This was the most ungraceful of the four proposed designs - it looked like a screwed up piece of tin foil. It IS possible to create something modern AND beautiful - they don't need to be mutually exclusive! I particularly liked the Foster design. To now, after all this, just cancel it is a huge blow for the city. This was going to raise the profile to sit alongside such landmarks as Sydney Opera House. Why could the project not simply be postponed while plans are revised to reduce costs. Maybe this wouldn't have happened if they'd gone with one of the more beautiful and yet simpler constructions of the other designs.

John
Maybe the fourth grace was not the best choice of building for the waterfront but it was part of a bid to get the the capital of culture and many people (especially living outside of liverpool) must be thinking that there is some element of a fix at work here. Having lived in Liverpool for 6 years now I think that it is a wonderfull city but without signifigant improvement to the existing buildings and the addition of some world class facilities (e.g. concert and sports venues)it falls well short of what should be expected of a capital of culture - the docks are nice but are lacking in comparision to many other waterfronts around the country, I spent a weekend at Birminghams (the other main contender in the competition) canalside waterfront last year and have to say it provides more lesuire, conferance and hotel facilities that the dock and without some major feature being added here, will continue to do so. Come on Liverpool Council - Start delivering on the promises you made when the bid for Capital of Culture was made and lets all be proud of the City for 2008 and the future!

James
All this villification of Liverpool because it has decided not to build one (ONE) building. No surprise it is coming from other beaten cities. And also, Liverpool is not introspective. Liverpool people have their own mind, don't like being dictated to and are very forward-looking. The animosity shown against The Cloud was because it was ugly and came last out of all the choices proposed. Of course, it is easy (and lazy) to snipe at Liverpool so what should we expect? The narrow-minded nature is more obvious in people's attitude to Liverpool people than within the city itself. Grow up Britain.

Neil Butler
As a scouser, now living in Saudi Arabia I can appreciate the inpact of new architectural statements but I am far more concerned about the neglect that surrounds them. I go along with other comments here. Liverpool needs a world class sports stadium, concert and exhibition venue along with a massive cosmetic and infrastructure clean up. We also need it by 2008. Let's hope the city council will stop wasting money trying to be politically correct, start being pragmatic and get the job done. Get your heads out of the "cloud" and let's have a true architectural statement that truly marries form and function.

Paul, Liverpool
Definitely a case of emperor's new clothes this building. Everybody telling us how progressive this building was when it is patently obvious that it would have been one large blot on OUR landscape

mark(from birkenhead)now living in berlin.
its seems Liverpool wants to remain a second rate English city and not to become an international city. When i first saw the design i did not like it but fully understood buildings like this are needed to take a city forward in the world. Talking about calling Liverpool a city of culture seems strange as all the culture seems to be getting removed and that it is just becoming a big shopping centre. There is a separate issue of whether it was right to spend this kind of money on a project like this when you take a look around the city at the state of some of the housing and social problems. I still love the city but i am concerned in the direction it is going.

Jon
Glad that one's been shelved, The cloud looked like my mother-in-law on Halloween night. Trust me, that's not the best way to entice potential trade!

graham
cheat cheat cheat what do you expect from liverpool give the culture prize to birmingham before any more damage is done to british reputation in europe

alan ROBERTS
what liverpool needs is a massive stadium, for 2008 incasing a theatre, sports arena, shops, ice rink, top state of the art football ground, liverpool is looking a tired city and needs an awakening. SO COME ON LIVERPOOL COUNCIL GIVE US WHAT WE DESERVE

paul, netherley
capital of culture my arse! another waste of money the whole thing. Put a fraction of the money to assist those who cant pay the extortionate council tax.

Dave
Idont think the council intended to go ahaid with this project at all, they just used it as a lever to become the city of culture.This Council are renound for all talk and no action.

Andrea
The Cloud would not have suddenly made Liverpool a better place to live, or even visit. The waterfront is spectacular enough as it is, hence the recent designation as a world heritage site. I think we should concentrate on cleaning the city up, improving what we already have, and putting Liverpool on the cultural map in terms of music, theatre and the like. The reason that the biggest bands and shows go to Manchester is because they have the facilities, we currently do not.

Ken
I agree with Marco. Time to look at what replaces the Cloud. Two ideas have struck me. One is rebuild the original 4th Grace - the Customs House - knocked down after the war where Chavasse Park is now and put your theatre and museum in their. It will compliment the other graces and you can have a space age interior. Anyone who has seen the Customs House in Dublin, which was similar to Liverpool’s, will know how breathtaking the architecture is. And for anyone saying that's harking back to the past, would you make the same argument about London resurrecting the Globe Theatre? Thought not. The other idea, which I saw a while ago, was to build a bridge from the Wirral. That could be iconic if it was done a la Sydney bridge style. It would bring the Wirral closer to Liverpool and in a way grow the feel of the city centre. It would also allow visitors and locals the chance to admire the beauty of the waterfront 24 hours a day. Now that would help regenerate both side of the river in terms of new restaurants on the Wirral side for people to enjoy the view while they eat and creating a buzz of activity that European cities have at night, especially in the summer. You could also use it as a viewing platform for the new cruise liners, and like the Sydney Harbour bridge be used for celebrations – firework displays etc. And as a bridge leading into a World Heritage site, in terms of marketing the city it would be quite a striking image. And for the world of engineering, it would generate worldwide interest as it would be an amazing project to work on – your new technology bringing new life to the old Liverpool. If there’s nearly £100m in the public coffers still swilling around after the Cloud, then you are well on the way to do either of those two proposals.

Arthur
Looking like something out of a Salvador Dali painting, the Fourth Grace was always going to stand out like sore thumb when compared with the other buildings on the Liverpool waterfront. Here was an opportunity for an architect to design something that would blend in whilst also being very modern. Perhaps now that the plans have been dropped we may actually get something we can all be genuinely proud of.

Céline, France
I never thought the Fourth Grace was adequate with the rest of the waterfront. I'm quite happy the Cloud won't be built but I hope it won't have negative consequences on the European Capital of Culture stuff!

Dave
Best news for a long time.Hideous eyesore.It should never have been contemplated.

Andy
This thing should never have been given the gio ahead in the first place, it would have looked so out of place amongst the historic building that surrounded it and would also have a huge wast of money that could be better spent on refurbishing run down housing or even historic buildings in the city that have been neglected for years.

Tony
I think it's a huge pity that this beautiful building won't see the light of day. It's controversial appearance would have been a talking point for everyone- visitors and residents- the detractors would learn to love it. The last piece of modern architecture built in Liverpool was in the 60's- the Metroploitan Cathedral..high time we had another. It's a massive blow for Liverpool not to be able to have Allsopp's design as part of the new waterfront..wonder what we'll get? As for ugly buildings, look no further than Quiggins- a hangout for weekend Goths from the Wirral. So- here we are- four years to go..no fourth Grace, no stadium..shall we cancel now or wait for the City Council to embarrass us any further..?

Iain Scott
So what are we going to do with the site? One of the most important in the world. Leave it as a porsche garage or car park or build some mock classic building which will please all the moaners or landscape it with a few cafes? No one has laughed at Manchester for building an off kilter ventilation shaft out of Salford Quays (War Museum)so why should anyone laugh at Liverpool for having a squashed coke can. Has anyone ever noticed that all the three Graces are completely different architectural styles! As the independent said on Monday there was huge opposition to The Liver Buildings when that was proposed because it was totally modern and unique. Compared to Cunard and Port buildings it was no doubt regarded as a "monstrosity". Liverpool has some serious thinking to do. Unfortunately we cannot rely on public opinion in the city. I'm sorry but its too conservative and provincial. Unfortunately we are in the hands of the professionals and they had better not mess it up. This weeks cock up has left me feeling very disappointed and a little nervous. Will Liverpool deliver after all the hype?

USA Scoucer
Thank God!! Someone finnaly saw sense. when i was told that it was going to be built, I was appalled. Liverpool has a beutiful skyline, this would have ruined it.

craig
while it was controversial, it got people talking about liverpool. im just wondering what will go in its place

Brian
The heritage honour stated any building had to be in keping with the rest. The cloud wasn't. It was totally out of context where it was proposed to be built.

Dennis
At last common sense and good taste prevails! A fourth grace should be in keeping with the other three graces, magnificent and impressive not an embarresment on the fabulous waterfront we have now.

JOAN
WE LOSE THE CLOUD WITH SADNESS, WHAT A LOSS FOR LIVERPOOL,I HOPE WE DONT GET ANOTHER SQUARE GREY BUILDING ,AS NICE AS THEY ARE, WE NEED TO HAVE A BIT MORE IMAGINATION, AND THE CLOUD WAS OUR FUTURE.

Doug
Pathetic. The National Discovery Centre, Everton @ Kings Dock and now Mr Alsop's fabulous 'Cloud'. All of these projects have been proclaimed nationally, each has failed leaving us looking like the bunch of idiots the nation loves to paint us as. Those of you who disliked this forward thinking building, the Parisiens despised the Eiffel Tower before it was built... but at least it was built.

David W
The best news we could have had! Let's do something visually in keeping with the magnificent three graces instead.

Karl Duvall
I am disapointed this building was chosen over the other candidates. I am therefore glad this decision has been scrapped, i only hope they choose the fosters option. As for Mr Alsops comments, He should prehaps re visit Liverpool and ill show him exactly what our amazing city has to offer, how dare he say we have nothing now his wacky spaced out cloud has been scrapped. good riddence. Please re invest in the small districts of Liverpool, and give every visitor an appealing approach no matter how they arrive in our city

Lesley
Please can we have the Fourth Grace on the Cammel Laird site in Birkenhead. It will have a better view - ie of the existing Graces and would look wonderful from the Liverpool waterfront. It was a lovely building, but the Liverpool waterfront just wasn't the right place for it. But please Liverpool City Council, don't go and build a horrible apartment block, like the one the other side fof the Albert Dock.

hillers
I feel that Liverpool will always struggle to accept a "new" aesthetic for our urban landscape / waterfront. Yes lets preserve good examples of architecture from our past but is it not time we created buildings that our grandchildren will be proud of us for in years to come.Financing progressive architecture is what will identify our generation in years to come.The comments relating to "eye-sore" or "monstrosity" surely miss the whole concept about regenerating our historic waterfront. This Will Alsop building would have been an excellent examplke of how Liverpool & it's people are forward thinking and cultural. This should not be about old versus new. Yes its a challenging design but more often than not these "modern" buildings are fantastic buildings to be in and mill around outside of. How many of you actually go inside The Liver Buildings or St Georges Hall (except for 3 days to see a floor that is covered up for the rest of the time.) Please try and raise the level of debate for any future "landmark" buildings from discussions about glass, bricks and concrete to a discussion about public quality space and attempt not just to preserve our past but to create historical sites that will communicate our aspirations and culture in the next couple of hundred years...COME ON !

Lily
Plans, plans, plans, I'm sick of reading about them. They NEVER come to anything. It's been like this for so many years, now when I see 'plans' in the newspaper I just turn the page. NOT interested anymore. Feel like walking away from this city. Does nothing ever go right!! It's a disgrace we have turned Alsop away. Don't talk to me about trams and canals...IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN>

Rog
I'm very pleased that this monstrosity has been cancelled-I don't wish to see our world famous waterfront defiled by such rubbish!

Rob
he ugliest building i have ever seen...and as usual the srty politically correct groups pushed it on us.. i'm glad it's not being built.. i cant understand why the Quiggins building has to go either.. again,that decision was made in the face of public opinion..

Marco
So - what are we going to spend the 228 million on now. Lets stop whingeing and think about that instead!

Nick
I am delighted, this monstrosity would have ruined the image of the three graces. It looks like a meringue, not a cultural gem.

Simon
Extremely disappointed, i think before people slag off the building - they should maybe look at some of Will Alsops other buildings and realise that concept isn't always the same as finished. It's a great shame that we (as the people of Liverpool) could not open their minds a tiny bit to a potentially great scheme. After all, St. Georges Hall was hated by the people of Liverpool when the scheme was first proposed. What happens now? Newcastle has the guts to go for groundbreaking schemes - give Capital of Culture to them - they deserve it more...

JON NEWTON
I THINK THE FOURT GRACE IS A DISGRACE IT LOOKS LIKE AN EYE SORE, YOU WOULD BE BETTER SPENDING THE MORE ON A PROJECT-S THAT WILL GENERATE MONEY INTO THE CITY..

rich
Yet another plan down the toilet. I really hope this isnt the start of a series of cancelled schemes. As the parent of a young boy I have high hopes for Liverpools future but this makes me feel slightly uneasy.

Katharine, Runcorn
I would have actually liked to have seen the Forth Grace in town. I think it would have shown our critics that we are more than worthy of the Capital Of Culture title we worked so hard to get and perhaps then even set an example to other cities of where modern architecture is heading.

Chris
Im a bit dissapointed by this, but then think, well why dont they make this into a really nice open space, adjacent to the new canal link, and save some truly iconic architecture for areas around the decrepit north dock side of the city. Surely this is a cheaper and more sensible alternative?

lorenzo
Capital of culture... liverpool c'mon guys don't make me laugh...

les tasker
the cloud was an eyesore not fit to stand alongside the three graces

Ian
Liverpool will never learn. I say that as one of its biggest fans and also critics.Instead of creating a museum city we need to be creating memorable buildings for the twenty-first century.We need to be at the cutting edge.No tall buildings so as not to upset UNESCO and English heritage, no sense of innovation that's Liverpool.What a load of cobblers.So much potential but city-fathers/mothers with no bottle.It should be the Manhattan of Europe instaed it's another Eurodisney with a Mickey Mouse mentality and nothing inspirational.It's so disappointing but it's become symptomatic of a city that doesn't want to look forward.Keep your Beatles buildings, and your Beatles museums and your Beatles cafés.Liverpool you're (we're)so provincial it's untrue.

Lyn
Thank goodness. I think 'the cloud' would be a stunning, exciting building but I think putting next to the present buildings would spoil the waterfront. Elsewhere, perhaps in the middle of a 'piazza' would show it in all its beauty.

James
When are this Lib Dem council going to get to grips with things? Just about everyone except their little coterie did not want this scheme yet they went ahead and wasted £1.5MILLION of public funds. Just like they wasted £500,000 on the Kings Dock stadium, renovated Williamson Square for the SECOND time! They are a joke and never see life outside of the Town Hall. Don't listen to what local people want or say. AND yet they remain in power! I suppose you get the council you deserve.

ROSS
Sense at last the whole project was a fiasco and financial disaster waiting to happen, look at Manchesters Hubris and Sheffields now defunct pop museum. This building would have been a target for scallie yob culture prone to vandalism and seagull droppings! IT would have been the fourth Dis-grace. A giant musical statue of Sir Paul Mcartney like TALOS in "JASON AND THE ARGONUAUTS" with a foot on either side of the Mersey looking out to the west with bass guitar in hand would be more visually stunning!

Frank
I have noticed throughout these posts that supporters of the cloud revel in calling people who were against it names. This debacle is partly the forward thinkers faults for being so desperate for something new they couldn't tell the difference between iconic and downright ugly. Other Cities have their iconic buildings but they are placed where they had NOTHING before. We have something to be proud of. We don't need to gild the lily.

David Roberts
I think it's good news the thing is ulgy and would ruin our great water front.

Howie
City loses: The Peoples Centre, The Picket, Quiggins, £2,000,000 on the 4th Grace. City gains: Luxury flats, and department stores, (and maybe a tram to Kirkby).

David
The cancellation of the fourth grace project makes a mockery of our city of culture bid and our city. We have been lied to...the Cloud exists in the hearts of many Liverpudlians, just as it was proudly diplayed on the hoarding that covered St.George's hall. I am truly dissapointed.

Mandy Phoenix, Liverpool.
If Liverpool really wants to be forward-looking city I suggest we drop the '3 Graces', raze them to the ground; so saying good-bye to the Liverpool they represent: a city built on piracy/thuggery/slavery/greed and misery. Then forget height restrictions, build the tallest, the greatest, the most Iconic buildings we can imagine; but in humility make one of those buildings a National Museum of Slavery. Form a new vision of Liverpool for the people today. But acknowledge our past, face up to our ghosts. Onlt then can we dream new dreams. Only then can we truly run towards our future.

Andy Green
Come on Sue! This is the 21st century not the 19th! This city has to move on. Yes, we've got some of the best Victorian architechture in the country but does our architectural heritage have to end there? The conservatism of some people in Liverpool frightens me!

IAN. Liverpool
yet again the City of Liverpool shows that it s greatness lies dust covered in the history books. Once again Liverpool decides to celebrate it distant and redundant past and become the turn into a cith of the past rather than the present and the future. To the people of Liverpool - Heritage is not static, it does not mean, old and stagnant, because the what is ahead is our future heritage. What happened to attitude Liverpool, is it in the past?

SHIRLEY
I think this is very sad that the plan has been scrapped. However, I do understand the concern with regard to the fluctuating costs in order not to build it. It is a beautiful design and it would be an asset to Liverpool just for an esthetic view. It seems to always be the case though you get an estimate and then the cost ends up being a lot more. I am quite sure people would begin to complain if the costs go over budget. So they are just saving themselves the grief. Besides if we can come up with that much money try investing it in the hospitals which are needed more. Shirley

Robert
Im from the North East and just heard about the latest cancellation in Liverpool of a building that was one of the main ideas for 2008 Capital Of Culture. How much of Liverpool has changed to help your bid that was successful? We might of lost out to you for the bid, but we have a number of buildings completed, plans in place to show the Newcastle and Gateshead skyline off to its best. This aint a go at Liverpool for there plans, but like most people on here, you would of thought Liverpool would be ahead with there plans, while the contenders that lost out to the bid would be the ones finding it hard to complete there plans. I hope Liverpool manage to stage a good Capital of Culture 2008, as most people in the country will.

T Rogers
Liverpool again shows a complete lack of vision and will remain forever a place which rests on its laurels.Forget a building that fits in with the other Graces.Lets have something even more groundbreaking..

paul wilks
thank god this monstrosity has been canciled liverpool is suposed to be the city of culture. this was a discusting biulding and whould go down like a lead ballon ask the people to vote on what thay want as its our city not the councils thay make enough mistakes.

j fullo
it was an eyesore anyway, it looked out of place with the current buildings

Mandy
Storey and Co were so desperate to provide a forward thinking, modernistic building they took their eyes off the ball. Alsop has had buildings built all over the world and they are awful. The Sharp Centre In Toronto looks like a giant kleenex box propped up on felt tipped pens. Perhaps this was the very kleenex box that the crumpled tissue design of the cloud came from. You can have modern buildings that aren't Ugly. The "It must be good because its an Alsop" Attitude reminds me of the story of the emperors new clothes, Somebody had to tell teh forward thinkers that they were building a shambles before it was too late.

Jim
Liverpool has always stood the test of time,the cancellation should help to assure that we do not look like the idiots down south.At least we faced up to a posible cost overun and made the hard choice.Let us hope we can recover and come up with an alternative that can make the citizens of this great city proud.Come on decision makers be alert and get busy.Work together for the people and the future.

Simon H
Why don't scousers wake up and smell the coffee. Be honest... Scouseland is a dump!!! Cancelling this abomination is absolutely a sensible decision. Just build something of the quality and staure of the Liver Builing and it won't just that Liverpool will be proud. The Country will be proud. For cyring out loud stop relying of bloody football and resting on your laurels.

Doris P
I am so pleased that commonsense has prevailed and that the abomination that was the 'Fourth Grace' has been shelved. How on earth could ANYONE think that such an ugly construction as that enhance the elegant buildings around the Pier Head. I am NOT from Liverpool, however I was appalled that the design was chosen. It was only fourth in the popularity poll yet it was chosen. Obviously by someone who had left their brain behind on that particular day. If there has to be some sort of commemorative icon let's make sure that it will stand the test of time as the Liver Buildings have done.

robbie
we are told that the spend so far is about 2 million - how much of it was used as part of the feasibiliy - to be 100 million out takes some doing - who did the original figures and who was keeping an eye on them - great project management eh? - if we were not talking about all of the leaders of the respective agencies being accountable here - someone would lose their job - someone still should - its a PR disaster - Liverpool Vision - I dont think so

ANDY
i'm from liverpool and now live in leds and all i can say is that i am in shock! admitly a voted against the cloud but at least it was something!but now i am worried, is there a plan B? and if lcc had 240 million to spen on the cloud will they have the same amount to spend on the plan B? but what i can't understand is that how come leeds manchester newcastle and sheffield can almost drag buildings up and liverpool still can't? it is a total embarassment!!!

Tom - N.G.
I thought this type of forum put together by the B.B.C. is one that allows people to express their opinions Lisa? I'm well aware i don't speak on your behalf but how pig-headed of you to think that you speak for 99% of the people in Liverpool. Have i touched a raw nerve with a member of the coucil i wonder?

Paul
What I would like to know. Is what is wrong with our waterfront anyway? It is already known worldwide, so why try and add something that we don't need!

Peter Cassidy
What can i say? If anything can show how bad Liverpool counsil is this should it. if i remember correctly wasn't this the least fovourd of all the proposed potental forth graces? when the people of liverpool were asked to vote the cloud came bottom, but the counsil in all there wisdom chose it. I was against the design but at least it was something, but now that it has been canselled it just makes liverpool a laughing stock! i bet it wouldn't had been canselled if it was in manchester! and what is going to happen to the 200 plus million that was going to be spent on the cloud? will it be ploud into another sceme? i doubt it, it will probably disappear, just like so much of this cities money!!!

Steve
Another shot the foot for Liverpool Council. It seems the only thing this council can do with any certainty is raise motoring costs, (parking fees for the Kings/Albert dock area. Now talk about a congestion charge similar to London. Let's get all these in place before 2008 so that we can screw any visitors who should come to see our ancient relics. It's great to remember our past heritage, we have the buildings to show. Let's now go forward like other cities and create something now so that future generations can look back on a fourth grace. Let's get our finger out and do something. Time is running out.

Ste C
World Famous Skyline? I'm bored of the 3 graces and I'm bored of the beatles! When is liverpool going to move on? The council is a joke. Ok so Alsops design wasn't to everyones taste but we can't live in the past forever. What happens now? A cheap, rushed building which will look even worse or a blank space? Well done liverpool council & liverpool vision.

Joan K.E. Martin
this is one of the most horrible looking creations I have ever seen. Liverpool is beautiful without this!

Gret
Delighted to hear we can't afford this tacky mess - we want a classy modern bulding, not something that looks like a sleazy disco light.

Jon (still in Shetland!)
And another thing..... is anyone going to mention the MerseyWave…..!!! What does the picture used to cover St Georges Hall during the renovations, the numerous pictures on the wall outside Lime street or the website of Liverpool vision company have in common: The have all got the picture of a made up waterfront on them. Complete with 4th grace, cruise liner berth, kings dock completed…. its all fantasy. I reckon they have actually started to think thats what the city looks like now!!!!! IT DOESNT!!! Anyway where are the talented Scouser programmers when you need them theres a liverpool vision website out there with a massive 4th Grace on its opening webpage..... surely a comical hacker can get rid of it for us...!

SUSAN
thank good ness they have shelved this awful building. There must be someone who can design a building to fit in with the 3 Graces and the Albert Dock Area. Come on Liverpool lets get it done.

Sue
I’m absolutely appalled this has happened. Whatever gets built in its place will never be as beneficial as the Fourth Grace we have lost. After the announcement of Will Alsops design had won and our Capitial of Culture victory I started to strongly promote Liverpool to so many friends outside the city and the country that they really should plan on visiting us soon. All those positive beliefs I had have gone following this decision. Forever in Manchester failing further behind all the time.

Paul. Liverpool
Good news for Liverpool! It was the wrong project for the wrong location. A project of political arrogance and commercial greed. Those who claim its loss damages the city are quite wrong. It is the folly of the project which is damaging. Yes other cities have big modern buildings, but not in such locations, they use such projects to rejuvinate run down or wasteland areas, eg Stanley dock area! Opposing the cloud does not make people luddites! Some people really are talking rot and seem to make up planning and architectural history to suit their lack of real vision for and pride in the city. The Buildings at the Pier Head were not the result of crass ideas but strict rules. The Port Building original design had no dome. housing was removed from the Man Island area, not to be replaced by two blocks of flats! Look at the real visionary plan drawn up in 1947. And get your history and facts right folks.

Paul Thomas Anderson
When I heard about the news I was truly saddened, this city is destined to never change. I’m also disgusted in the fact so many ignorant people are actually celebrating the decision, they don’t know how much harm this has done.

Ian
Tom from Toxteth, it is also very arrogant of you to assume that "99%" of the people were against it. I for one and deeply disappointed that the people with no vision, imagination or forward thinking are allowed to win the day once more. You should all be ashamed of yourselves for never letting this city leave the past while all the other cities just march on into the future.

I like some modern building designs but most defin
P O'Grady

Paul
In view of the news we should give the capital of Culture back to Newcastle. Once again Liverpool fails to deliver and we are a laughing stock

Murdock
This is truly a sad day and step backwards for the city. Reading so many overjoyed comments over the decision on various sites really frightens me that Liverpool will always be all talk and no action.

Philip
Very sad . It was really special and unique design that demanded attention and would have led to worldwide interest from those who respect and appreciate qaulity design. Nevertheless cost is vital and cannot be ignored. I do hope another iconoclastic building can be developed on the site but it is essential that the boldness , moderness of Alsop's superb design is not followed by an unimaginative 'safe' building.

Patrick
I think on paper it looked like a bold and exciting vision - it could have been spectacular, and would undoubltely have proved a major attraction. I just hope the council can now come up with something inspiring and eye catching to replace it. If they decide to have some sort of unimaginative, heritage/Beatles thing in its place I think we'll be a complete laughing stock as it will show the world that Liverpool is a second division city living in a mythical "glorious" past.

Martin
I don't live in Liverpool, but the City I do live in would absolutely kill for a project like this.

Sue
Thanks goodness they have pulled out of what could have been another 'millenium dome' - now that would have been embarassing. Any way why try to hide the view of Liverpool Cathedral from the waterfront.

Marc
The common man was won as always. Nothing will now be built that would of been as beneficial as Alsops design. Capital of Culture is one course to being nothing more than a sham.

Clare
The Liver Buildings may have been bold in their day but one thing's for sure Mike ... they didn't look exactly like a huge toilet!

STEVE
IT IS RIP OFF TIME AGAIN

Ken
I'm bitterly disappointed. The contrast between the Three Graces and this superb example of modern architecture would have been stunning and put the city back on the world map. This city's leaders are useless - nothings changed there then!

Irene
I was never over impressed with the design of the 4th grace, but it is a total embarrassment for the council that it has been scrapped. Back to being the laughing stock of the UK. When will something ever actually HAPPEN with our city, instead of just talk by the council ?

rob jones
what a joke! Liverpool the new barcelona...I doubt it vey much

Andy Green
This is terrible news for the city and really damages our credibility. The crowing from the backward-looking crowd is disappointing but sadly not surprising - they'd have probably objected to The Liver Building had they been around at the time. Liverpool has to move on and this was a perfect opportunity for us to be bold and show the world that we've got a future instead of constantly dwelling on the past. Let's hope something can be salvaged from this disaster.

Half A Scargill
The City was investing in a unique building which could not be given justice to by artists immpressions in a newspaper. We would have had something which would have made people talk about Liverpool from a world class architect. Sydney had the same problems with the Opera House and people travel half way round the world now just to look at it. Get real all you backward thinking people, do you really believe we will now have the opportunity of spending 200 million on something else...i'm afraid the opportunity is now lost and dread to see the 'New' plans they have as option B. This council hailed the signing of a contract to build yet more houses on the green space of the old garden festival site a success, god knows what thay plan for our waterfront. Put your efforts were they are appreciated Mr Alsop, our city is run by a bunch of line your own pockets cowards. Funny how our councillers are far braver when it comes to making poeople redundant though.

Mike
I'm disappointed, whilst not my favourite of the designs submitted, it marked Liverpool's bold new entry into the 21st Century. Critics should remember that the Liver Buildings were bold and forward thinking in their day. We are in the 21st Century and we should have the same forward thinking as our forebears.

steve
it should be replaced with two domes and a big tower, as a testament to the people who care more for what tourists think than their own constituents

Dom
I braced myself for the predictable wave of "thank god it's not happening" responses and I wasn't disappointed. Perhaps the Luddites would like us to continue building houses made of mud with thatched roofs? Progress for this city does not mean building a Fourth Grace which look exactly like the ones alongside it but in newer brick! Sydney, Seattle, Toronto, Bilbao etc etc - they all have 'controversial' yet breathtaking buildings & attract visitors in their droves. Move forward people of Liverpool & stop being so sentimental.

Mark
Where is this skyline that people keep talking about? We don't have one!!

the real, real Lisa
Oh you do, do you Tom? I think 99% of Liverpool people are aware that sweeping generalisations like your own fuel the sort of stalemate this city is now mired in. Cut the c**p and stick to your own opinions. You don't speak on my behalf.

Tom - N.G.
I,m glad the cloud has been cancelled,it was repulsive. I'd like to know though just how much of council tax payers money was wasted in the development of this non event;i.e.planning,meetings,proposals(cocktail parties). Everyone associated with the whole sham should be brought to book.

Peter Ab
Ok so it's gone, we have no doubt lost money and time on this project. Now it is time for LCC to show they are real leaders(?) and go ahead with one of the other projects that were put forward. The blame should however not be fully placed on their doorstep, I believe the planners and contractors are also to blame; like Cowboys they make quotes and then when the contract is given, up their price. This is the reason so many projects end up being cancelled and being overpriced. Unfortunately it is a trate of this country that will take a long time to lose. I can only hope that the next time I return to Liverpool, some of the planned and promised improvements(?) will have developed into something which has found fruit, and not just become another pipe dream. There has also been comparisons made to other Cities, one Vancouver, has become famous for using what few features it has to their full advantage by improvement in some areas, but in those of historic value also kept; i.e, the old town. We have lots more History, lets just not limit it to Matthew St. and the 3 G's/Albert Dock. One thing I would try and improve instead of bringing in Trams, would be to improve the roads of the City. This is one of the biggest complaints(alongside the dirt) that I have heard from people visiting Liverpool.

Mike
This is a great shame... a disgrace! We need an iconic building for Capital of Culture a focal point that says "Liverpool has arrived" Without an iconic building on this site 2008 will be a wash out. The cynics can not be allowed to win, all they are doing is stopping progress, imagination and innovation. Come on Liverpool sort it out, let us prove we are Capital of Culture!!!!

Ivor
I have lived in Merseyside for over 20 years, and in all that time all I've seen is plans.Plans for King's Dock, plans to re-develope New Brighton,plans for the waterfront - but nothing happens. While this place goes round in circles, everywhere else is actually making some progress.

John
Shame! The capital of culture will probably end up all about The Beatles and football - past glories! At least this was looking to the future which is what the city needs to do if it's to be taken seriously as a cultural region.

Tom Toxteth
I think 99% of Liverpool people are glad it's been cancelled. It was deeply unpopular & would have been a total act of vandalism against the grandeur of the Pier Head had it been built. It was very arrogant of Liverpool Vision (Jim Gill) to totally ignore public opinion after consultation & opt for the least popular design. What a waste of time & public money. Heads should roll! Will Alsops design was not an icon, more of an eye sore. Any new building at the Pier Head must have the support of the people. Liverpool Vision sucks!

Mark - Wirral
I'm glad it failed. It would have been an eye-sore on what is left of a once great sky line. How about spending the money on improving housing, transport and services for youth ?

D J Flynn
I have seen several beatiful and graceful modern buildings, whish could have added grandeur and style to our waterfront, notably in Manchester and Birmingham. Yke'cloud' would have added neither, and would have seriously detracted from the magnificence of the Liverpool skyline. I cannot regret scrapping.

Martin
This is a shame for the city. We are in danger of missing the opportunity to capitalise on the City of Culture status which represents the only window of opportunity in the foreseeable future to change for the better. In order to become a world city Liverpool needs modern iconic buildings which stir up discussion and bring people to the area. while there are still lots of other exciting projects on the table (fingers crossed they happen) tourists, journalists, academics etc don't tend to get so excited about a tram system on the other side of the world and thus the city will not receive the profile it is looking for. The Fourth Grace (in one form or another) is vital in ensuring all of the projects and the city as a whole moves forward and is attractive to investors. Also, what about risk management- if you make the fourth grace such an intragal part of the Culture bid, what alternatives have been discussed?

John
I worked with the model of this proposed building, and learnt to love it. There were some thoughtful features that could've really pleased the public. It was the only competition entry that didn't look dreadful from ground level (which is a view you NEVER see in the mockups or models). It's a damn shame. Sort it out Liverpool, you deserve better than this.

Dave
The original building were constructed as lavishly as possible, without a care given to the cost. The fact that such stringent planning and financial conditions were placed on the new buildings show that Liverpool is simply not in the same place as it was 100 years ago. If something is to be built on this site then the only limiting factors should be the architect's imagination, and not the number of apartments or over zealous planning officials

Peter
I'm glad the "cloud" has been blown away

LOL
I must admit i wasn't keen on the design of the fourth grace,but i'm sorry it wont be built.It seems to me by the time 2008 has arrived nothing will have been done,and it will give the rest of the country the chance to have ago at us once again and rightly so.If manchester can rebuild after the bomb in such a short time why can't we,Do we always to come 2nd,3rd,or last at anything we do.

Rich
It's a brave move by the council to cancel this now rather then let the project get further out of hand, as has happened with other projects around the country. I just hope that the council now use the land for something that will enhance the waterfront in the long term, and not just 'fill the space' in time for 2008.

RichD
Having lived here for seven years, I thought that this building really epitomised a new way of thinking for the people of this city. What the cynics failed to understand was that people come to cities to see new iconic structures. If it wasnt for the Opera House, Sydney wouldnt get half the revenue it does. We need a HUGE statement to prove that we are changing. Now Liverpool is back to looking like a laughing stock.

Jon (Now living in Shetland)
I was one of the many people who took the time to visit the public displays and I placed my vote for what I thought was the best. Like many people I put "the cloud" last and not just last by a little, it was way down. In fact I actually wrote on my form that "IF this building is chosen I will pack up and leave liverpool". Well to my disgust after it was voted last by the PAYING public our council ignored us (not for the first time) and went for their own choice. I as promised have packed my bags and now live in the Shetland Islands! Having spent some enjoyable years in liverpool I just felt let down by the council. So it gives me great pain to say it but, I think we should be handing back the title. We all moaned about the National stadium fiasco and we are about to be made the laughing stock of the country. How much do we have to pay Mr Alsop to get out of the contract? And will newcastle etc now take legal action now that our bid was made up of lies and false promises? Liverpool City Council you are stain on this great city, we all saw the pictures of you soaking up the credit on the day of the 2008 victory now show your faces in shame now and resign before you make even bigger fools out of your electorate.

Kate
Remind you of anything? Wembley? Millennium Stadium? Once again we witness a major gaffe on behalf of politicians and planners with dreams of eternal recognition bigger than the size of their wallets. I just hope that we don't see the usual anti-Scouse reaction from the rest of the country, having a go at the ordinary people of Liverpool when really everyone in the country is suffering under the same inefficiency and lack of realistic vision. Now its not happening, can we see some investment in something that really matters - the people of this wonderful city?

Dick
Fourth Grace 0 Planners 1. When will we learn not to allow these backwards lunatics in the planning department to exercise their personal (dated) preferences over the future of our city.

Eddie
Much as I love our City, anyone who talks about the 'World Famous Skyline of Liverpool' is living in a fantasy land. Have you ever been to Manhattan?! Why is it London finds no difficulty building massive buildings that showcase the development of their City, like Canary Wharf, and we can't even sort out a small building on the Waterfront? Why can't the alacadoos of this City pull their fingers out? Beetham Tower shows what we can achieve, lets see some more if we are truly going to earn the respect the title 'Capital of Culture' brings!

Robbie
This setback along with the tram project only goes to show that Liverpool simply was not ready to catch up with Manchester. I was delighted when Liverpool won the 2008 bid, but knew we would blow it before it even happened!!

Carole
Why is everyone so surprised this is not happening? Personally I am glad it has been cancelled as this was not the type of building the city wanted in the first place to be built next to the beautiful three graces? Liverpool City Council - get your act together. We have buildings such as the old post office started but not finished. This could be such a grand building but instead it is an eyesore. There are plans for trams and a canal link etc but I fear these will never happen due to Liverpool City Council being unable to plan and budget. How much money has been wasted in just drawing up these plans? Money that could have been spent more wisely on other more realistic projects.

Liverpool No Vision!
They do it again, thankfully I live in Manchester. 2004 and still can't get things moving. Have a competition, select a winner, then change the goal posts. Willie must be steaming.

Gavin Amos
I do urban regeneration at the University of Liverpool i believe the cancellation of the fourth grace represents a real step back in the capital of culture development and i believe we may be in the same position as Greece is with the Olympics with the plans constantly changing resulting in a the city failing to reach its full potential as plans are scrapped due to time restrictions and no one body taking hold of the reins!

Max Molyneux
It shouldn't of been chosed as it didn't fit into the waterfront area. Although the Norman Fosters design would and should be built instead. Plus we have the positive places still being built.

Paul
It is not a blow at all that a scheme that came fourth out of four in a public consultation has failed.It is a reason to celebrate! The cloud was a monstrosity that would have destroyed the waterfront.Its is a great day for Liverpool that it won't be built. However, this news does make the positions of Jim Gill, Mike Storey and David Henshaw untenable.They are the the ones who asked for the publics' opinion and then ignored it. Is it too much to ask that we get people who actually have talent to run the city? As for trams, has the fact that we don't actually need a tram system escaped everyone's attention?

Clare
Liverpool has done it again. The Fourth Grace was such an integral part of the bid for City of Culture 2008 that the award must surely be given back. If it isn't people will quite righly accuse Liverpool of winning the award on merits that don't exist. I might be a scouser, but I'm under no illusions about the faults of this city and its people. I was genuinely shocked when I hear that Liverpool had won the award - there are few less deserving cities because of the current attitude of the Council and people. It's a good job we have nearly 4 years to 2008 - it will take that long to find any real, meaningful culture in Liverpool

harry
hooray!

Paul Holloway, Leeds
Lisa, don't worry. It's not a competition. This isn't going to go ahead, but no-one should be too concerned. Liverpool has a great future ahead of it, and it's present isn't that bad either. Let's see what other ideas appear for this area - it's prime space, and there'll be people falling over themselves to make the best of this opportunity.

John
The worst thing about this decision is it gives another excuse for the doom mongers to whinge. Perhaps if there'd been more public support for the scheme it would've stood more of a chance. Another victory for the "can't do" scouser mentality.

steve
that was close,nearly destroyed the waterfront,

Andy R
What a total and utter shambles. All this project money wasted and a big fat nothing to ever come out of it. It didnt really matter what was built on the site, just something that would announce to the world that 21st century Liverpool was here and meant business. Sadly thats not going to happen due to the mismanagement of the project, all we have now is negative publicity. What a start to the build up to 2008.

Mrs Ann Doran
I am so glad this has been cancelled as I thought it was a disgrace and a total waste of money..This money could be put to better use..

jackie m
come on all us liverpool people we don't need a 4th disgrace, which in my mind is what it was.if liverpool needs anything to grace our fab water front it should be that new arena or stadium that keeps getting talked about and then put on the back boiler againe,liverpool is a wounderful city so lets get behind it and spend £228m on it we have got 4yrs to make it show.

Brian
Disaster! i knew something like this would happen! a cool new building gone! Manchester is miles ahead, with the Libeskind designed war museum, the Lowry and more. what has liverpool got now?? more ugly Beetham flats? what a joke! if they cancel the new canal link i'm gonna cry!!!

Christopher T. George
With due respect to the architect, who meant well, I believe it is much better for Liverpool that this eyesore not be built to detract from the existing beauty of the waterfront. Chris George ex-Liverpool Baltimore, USA

Tony L
Glad the threat of that monstrosity has been removed from the waterfront....it looked like a giant Beefburger. Lets have a building more in keeping with our famous skyline.

Rick the Manc
The design chosen by the council, not the public, was probably the worst of them all. Be thankfull that it was never built. It would have been your version of our Arndale. However, the fact that this project was central to the capital of culture bid should not be ignored. Though Liverpool has been deprived of a fourth grace, other bidding cities such as Newcastle and Birmingham must be fuming, after losing out to a city who promised but failed to deliver.

Darren
This is a huge shame. Myself and everyone I kno had got ourselves excited waiting for, and lookinf forward to this building being built. This would havae given Liverpool a true modern European feel, to rival that of any modern european city. This is a huge loss.

Lee
Alsop came bottom in the public vote. So how did it become the choice for the city? I am not sorry to see it falling by the way-side. Lets now wait to see what inspirational idea the council comes up with to replace it...

Andrew McShane
Liverpool City Council - All talk, no action. Why bother putting these ideas forward if they are never going to come to fruition. Perhaps the Echo should start a 'Continue the Rot' campaign.

Jamie
Fantastic news that this 4th rate monstrosity isnt going ahead. Hopefully this will keep any more 'visions' from the vastly overrated and self obsessed Alsop from our city. Fosters design was always welcome.

John
What happened? I am very disappointed that the fourth grace was axed as it would of put us on the map and modernised the city!

Roy
Yet again grand plans come to nothing. What will tourists say when they arrive in 2008? "I was here in 2004 when they Liverpool was announced the Capital of Culture and nothing has changed." It really upsets me when grand plans (as usual) come to nothing. Whats going to fall though next...?

Sam
Who cares if we've lost out on an eyesore? With the money we should build what Liverpool really needs- a proper music venue.

Stephen
I'm delighted that the fourth grace has been axed - there are far better ways to spend the millions of pounds bringing culture to the people of Liverpool than a giant silver t*rd on the dockside

robbie
i wonder how much of this has got to do with the agencies involved - its typical of regeneration in liverpool - we need a project which will capture international attention - the city deserves it - what going to replace it?

Tom
The project was always controvertial, no one i spoke to about it showed any great enthusiasem

Phil Garston
This isn't a blow to the City at all. This monstrosity should never have even been considered. I suspect that the cost argument is teh CIty Planners way of saving face in the light of overwhelming public rejection of this project. Perhaps next time they have a public consultation over something they will actually take notice of the results.

Matt, Wirral
thankfully my Liverpool waterfront views will not be disrupted by this monster. A new building should be proposed in keeping with the existing 3 graces.

Tommy
The board of Liverpool Vision should be sacked. This is the second major scheme they've been ivolved in that has collapsed,the king's dock scheme with Everton was the other one. They are a bunch of small town amateurs turning the city into a laughing stock.

Chris Lloyd
Alas, this is no surprise. Perhaps a more viable scheme should have been selected in the first place?

Charles
This is very sad, and all the philistines crowing at the demise of this 'monstrosity' should be ashamed of themselves. For a minute there it wasn't so embarrassing to be a Scouser, but now I feel we're right back in retroland -- where most of us seem quite happy to remain

the real, real Lisa
how can someone say that Liverpool has more amenities than Manchester or Leeds? I'm a proud Scouser but there's no reason to lie like that. we just don't. simple as that!

Goodbye, new Liverpool
so what's the jewel in the crown for capital of culture now? a souless shopping centre with a private police squad who can eject people they don't like the look of? the city needs an inspirational building scheme. the 4th grace was that scheme. now we have nothing.

Hughie.
The fourth grace was a disgrace to the Liverpool watefront. A fourth grace should be in similar architecture to the exisiting three. Anyone who is unhappy about the cancellation of the fourth grace should move to London.

DNewman
The design was excellent and would have been a great feature to the landscape, shows how great london architects are, a great shame not to have such a magnificant alsop building

Phil
I must admit that I was never overly enamoured with the design of the building for the location. It could have looked good somewhere else in the city, but I think this development may be a blessing in disguise. That said, Liverpool really needs to get its act together. I'm about to move to London for better job prospects and I hope to be able to move back one day. The way the city is run at the moment, I'm glad I'm going.

Mike
Mark, only the 4th grace has gone. Chavaasse Park - oparadise St scheme is happening. The canal link is not dependent on 4th grace. LFC are going to planning committee in a few months. And the concert arena is still on the cards. And the crusie liner terminal will be ready by the end of 2005. So chin up lad. Not everything goes to plan. Don't fall into the old trap of doom and gloom.

Ceris
So Jonathan says look to the waterfronts of other world cities for inspiration. You're living in a bubble, man. LCC have capped the height at which new city building can grow, without public consultation, meaning that instead of a modern high-rise skyline like Vancouver (consistently voted the no.1 best city to live in the world), we have to genuflect at the foot of the Liver Building. Dream on fool, dream on.

JIMBO
Glad the waterfront won't be destroyed by this eyesore after all. How could anyone seriously consider putting this lump next to three such wonderful buildings ? Don't suppose it will make any difference to the ongoing destruction of the city's real 'culture' - as usual, it's only a clique who get their views put forward based on money, money, money. Who needs a bunch of upmarket shops no-one can afford to go into ?

GED
Glad - what a monstrosity

Peter
Liverpool has lots of great plans - the fourth grace, the tram line, the canal in front of the Liver Buildings, the Chevasse park development. When will Liverpool City Council ever make the leap from plans to reality??????

Mark
We've managed to do it again, grand plans come to nothing. It doesn't come as a surprise anymore. Of the projects in the pipeline to be done before 2008, how many more will fail to materialise? Take your pick, the trams, Liverpool's new ground, Chavasse Park, the canal extension, a concert arena. Who runs our council? Why doesn't anything ever get done? How many millions have been wasted in feasibility studies? If we want to be seriously considered as a world city, get rid of whoever is in charge at the moment and let's have someone with some bottle. The cloud wasn't my first choice, but so what if it did cost more than expected, you have to speculate to accumulate. It galls me to say it, but that is why we're so far behind Manchester, and we're falling further behind.

the real Lisa
Manchester and Leeds need to dream on. Whoever posted that tho, well, it made me giggle!

alan gray
thank God it's been cancelled. It looked like a used tissue.

lou tyson-smith
Well, well, well what a surprise... so the city have cocked it up and we are still 4 years off the capital of culture crowning. Isn't it more than a little dishonest not to build the 4th grace considering that it formed a key part of the bid for the award? I'm a scouser born and bred and am proud to be so, but can we look to the future now please or must we all wear cheeky mop top wigs and talk about the Cavern for ever?

Jonathan
There was nothing 'cultural' about the building as it was a monstrosity anyway, and virtually anything else would be an improvement. If you need ideas for a waterside, seafront development look to Sydney, Perth, Hong Kong or Singapore.

Kevin
I was always worried that we would shoot ourselves in the foot after getting the capital of culture bid but the council had suprised me with some shrewd and bold decisions such as getting the Sydney games organiser in rather than merely trying to do everything ourselves, but this decision is a real blow even though I personally wasnt sure it a good design I like the fact it was so different. I'm sure we could still have something in it's place which we could be proud of and not at a cost.

Nick H
With the £228m saved, Liverpool FC should add their £80m for the new Stanley park stadium, and build a new national stadium to rival Wembley!!

Lisa
When I heard the news I actually cried. Now we'll never catch up with the likes of Manchester and Leeds. I feel numb.

Sean
Shame on Liverpool City Council. SHAME ON YOU!!! As this bid formed the basis of our Capital of Culture bid, the city should now hand back this title and allow a more progressive, effective, forward-thinking regional authority to get on with celebrating innovation and creativity instead. Liverpool clearly aren't capable of it. Will ALsop is a respected and talented architect whose work is celebrated in other countries but routinely mocked here in the UK for extent of vision. And what a triumph for those backward-looking revivalists who would rather we all donned Beatles wigs and danced a jig to some faded fifties beat at the base of the Liver Building; no longer an iconic testament to city pride, but the chief bluebottle atop a pile of steaming, redundant nostalgia. SHAME!

Mike
Does anyone get the feeling that Liverpool is going to blow the golden opportunity we were given for Capital of Culture? Maybe it was never planned to be built after all