Flemish far more than a dialect of Dutch
I'd like to congratulate you on the fact that you make a difference betweenDutch and Flemish in your feature on Languages across Europe. Some people here in Belgium and the Netherlands are stillfighting over the question whether there even is one. Officially Flemishdoes not exist, but every day life proves that it does. It pleases me evenmore that you indicate the nuances correctly. By the way, I'm Flemishmyself.The question whether Flemish is simply a local variation of Dutch is relatedto the similar question whether American is one of English. There is one bigdifference however. I can't imagine English television programmes beingsubtitled in the States and vice versa. Flemish drama seriesare! That is an important indicator of the language being similar, but notquite the same. It's a fact that most people in Flanders understandDutch when they speak their language, but almost none of Dutchinitially understand Flemish or rather what they mean. The grammar andthe spelling are identical, but as far as vocabulary is concerned there is a significant difference. You onlystart realising that when you talk to somebody from Holland.I'd like to add that I find it downright arrogant to labelFlemish as a dialect of Dutch. It's far more than that. Maybe once it usedto be only that, when the French-speaking bourgeoisie ruled the region. Butby now, it is my strong believe that it at least deserves to be treated inthe same way as American English.
Sent by: Sven
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The Flemish should create a separate Standard language which will suit them best. Then they don't have to be told by the Netherlands what is standard Dutch and what is not.
Just like the Netherlands created standard Dutch which suits the Dutch best the Flemish should create standard Flemish which will suit them best.
I spent the majority of my secondary school education at an International School in the Netherlands and learnt Dutch. However, we lived in Noord Brabant, about 45 minutes from the Belgian / Dutch boarder. I found, that I could understand the Dutch / Flemish spoken on both sides of the boarder quite easily, just as I could understand someone form Den Haag of Amsterdam. As part of my school leaving exams, I studied Dutch and we had to read two novels, one in Dutch and one in Flemish - indicating to me that they are considered one in the same language.
I don't like it at all when people call my language Flemish. I might be Belgian but speak Dutch and that's it. In fact, my local Antwerp dialect is not even from Flanders but from Brabant, just like the regional dialect(s) up in the province of Northern Brabant in the Netherlands. Everything else is politics sadly enough...
Funny, all the people here claiming that Flemish is different than Dutch, and comparing to Quebecqois and French. Most of these statements seem a bit nationalistic to me. Flemish is a dialect to Dutch. When spoken fast, it can be indeed difficult to understand for someone from the Netherlands, but mainly that's because we (the Flemish) integrate a lot of French words in our dialect. Personally I find dialects very intresting and enriching, but that doesn't mean I want to promote my dialect as a different language, and it's a bit narrow minded of the Flemish people that do. There's nothing arrogant about calling Flemish a dialect of Dutch, Sven. Plus, why would we want to call Flemish another language? We already win practically every Tien voor Taal contest anyway! ;-D (Flemish/Dutch TV co-production, quiz programme about the Dutch language).
My little brother and I grew up apart from each other; he in Belgium, and I in the Netherlands. I've seen him for the first time in nearly a decade recently, and I couldn't understand a word he was saying.
A few weeks back, I was standing at the train ttation in Florida of all places and I usually wear a small pin of the Belgian flag on my backpackso this guy comes up to me and ask if I speak 'Dutch' and I just said "yeah of course" and he started rattling off and I could partially understand him but you can always tell someone is from the Netherlands or even from Surinaam. A really big divide.
The difference between dialects and languages is not their mutual intelligibility or comprehensibility. It has everything to do with politics and culture. An example would be Norse and Swedish. These are considered two different languages by all means and purposes, but the speakers can easily understand each other. It is the other way around with Chinese. All the "dialects" of Chinese are hardly alike. Among sociologists the saying goes: A language is a dialect with money and an army (or power). The point is that there are no rules to test a language/dialect and see whether they are either one. In any case neither is better than the other.
As a Flemish person living in England, I do not see Flemish as a language separate from Dutch. Just like the English spoken in Manchester is not a different language than the English spoken in London. However, I do agree with the main point made in the posts above here: there are many variations of Dutch, both within Flanders, within the Netherlands, and accross the whole Dutch-speaking region.
Dutch and Flemish are two different languages. They may sound similar but they are different.
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The comprehension factor is irrelevent in the dialect/language debate. I can think of several English dialects that English people in general would struggle to understand, Jamaican patois for instance or Singlish.
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