WAR IN THE DALES

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Quentin Clarke
It is very sad that the people advocating the ban of motor vehicles on the very few ways left with vehicular access rights are being selfish and bigoted. There are many more miles of footpaths and bridleways which are free from motor vehicles, I think the figure quoted on your program was 98%. These tracks (RUPPs) are historic rights of way and have been use by all types of traffic over the centuries including motor vehicles in the last 100 years, the reason that they are what they are now is lack of use, due to never having being surfaced, consequently lack repair and churning up by agricultural vehicles which need the access. So I find it, as a walker better to use footpaths with added advantage it avoids the crowds and helps keep the more remote, less used paths open. Being a walker myself I now avoid such areas as Dove Dale, Alstonefields as people are shipped in by the coach load.

Jim Darling
Are the ramblers forgetting that they have to use the car to get from home to the Dales? And then drive in the Dales, over the Dales and away from the Dales in those cars? How can you reasonably object to 4x4 usage, and motorcycle usage on the RoW's in the Dales, if you yourself are causing pollution and noise just by getting there? Have you considered the impact your own feet are having on the RoW's? The footprint of a motorcycle will stress the RoW surface much less than a 100kg rambler. Are ramblers actively involved in preserving, conserving and repairing the RoW's for the benefit of ALL users? As has been mentioned here before, vehicles have access to less than 5% of the countryside RoW's, this leaves the walkers the Lion share of RoW's in which to seek thier right to peace, tranquility and solitude. We should all be working with each other to ensure that ALL user groups have continued and improved access to the WHOLE network of RoW's.

Chris Blomfield
Off road vehicles can only legally use 5% of all the available rights of way, walkers have 100%,there is room for all considerate users of the countryside, but we have to have some tolerance between user groups.I frequently trail ride in my local area,but rarely encounter any problems,most countryside users are very tolerant of each other,it is only a vociferous minority that wish to ban others from their leisure activities.

ross cameron
Walkers have unlimited access to the whole 189000km rights of way network. In addition walkers have the unique prospect of an unlimited number of new routes as a consequence of the right to roam. In view of this the campaign to ban vehicles from byways and RuPPs, which represent just 5% of the RoW network, is a staggering display of self-centred intolerance incompatible with today's society in which large numbers of people wish to enjoy a wide range of legitimate recreational pursuits. Why is there such determination to ban vehicles? One of the few conclusions that can be drawn is that byways, because they are often wide and follow relatively easy terrain, are ideal for large groups to stroll along and socialise without having to worry too much about looking where they are going or where they are placing their feet. If this is a motivation then it confirms the selfishness of the anti-vehicle campaign.

Voyager
I run a off-road shop in Essex and concentrate mainly on the Green-laners for my main customer base. This motion on closing lanes will have a drastic effect on my business yet again like the Foot and Mouth episode a couple of years back and some of us didnt get compensation! Let them ride the lanes surely we have much bigger issues in this country to worry about than re-inventing laws that have been resurrected to suit the NIMBY (not in my back yard) people who move and live around these areas.

Robert Burden
I think vehicular access to the lanes should remain in tact. I am a motorcyclist who rides the lanes and feel that at least everything is controlled at the moment with riders using the lanes and not the fields etc. I feel that the 'problem' would become worse with illegal riding taking place on areas other than the old lanes themselves. We only have access to 5% of the lanes in this country but it seems the ramblers want it all!

Mike Dowsett
I have heard & read some very biased opinions. The countryside is something many different people want to use and enjoy. Just because the users of motorised vehicles are in the minority (vs. walkers), they should not be victimised. There are only about 5000 miles of legal lanes for vehicles to use in this country. If people feel so strongly about the use of motor vehicles, surely they should stick to the 100,000+ miles where vehicles are not allowed ? There must be a workable solution that is a win-win for all users !

Michael Pote
I enjoy to ride my motorcycle on legal routes in the countryside, there is room for all of us in the countryside, if a walker doesn't want to meet a vehicle on a walk, then there are plenty of places he can walk where he is not going to meet one, a footpath for instance!!!

M Gregory
It is a pity that certain individuals and organisations see it fit to use subjectivity against responsible vehicular users in their cynical and selfish efforts to build themselves a utopia. As a responsible vehicular user I do not seek to judge others but co-exist with them. Viewed objectively walkers have access to far more rights of way than vehicles, erosion is also caused by feet, delve a little and it is easy to find accounts of footpath erosion in Wales and on the Pennine Way in publications such as the Times. I regularly see evidence of vehicles driven by Council contractors and agricultural users on byways, bridleways and footpaths. Taken subjectively none of this matters, the good work done by vehicular users such as lane maintenance and support at equestrian events counts for nothing. In the real world the true picture is very different, deal with irresponsible users whether vehicular, walker, horserider or mountain biker, encourage and support the responsible user groups and above all retain balance. Take a long hard look at yourself before you see fit to judge the majority of responsible vehicular users for the deeds of others.

Andrew Wilson
In England and Wales there are around 120,000 miles of footpaths and bridleways where motorcyclists cannot go. On the other hand, there are around 5,000 miles of minor, unsealed vehicular road and, of course, walkers, cyclists and riders also enjoy much of this. Also, walkers now have – or will soon have – thousands of square miles of open access countryside as well, plus they can wander at will on urban commons and through Forestry Commission plantations. If a rambler of cyclist does not want to share a minor road with motorcycles (most horse riders are far more tolerant – maybe because they are a beleaguered minority too) then they can very easily choose to go somewhere where they will not meet a lawful vehicle. They already have exclusive rights to most of the British countryside: now they want the rest too.

Greg Masters
A number of your correspondents take the view that damage is only caused by motorised wheeled vehicles. Multitudes of walkers will cause damage as will just a small number of horses (especially of the 'going' is soft). But the weather too causes soil erosion, so perhaps it's a little unfair to blame 4x4 and Green Lane bikers. The law demands that vehicles should be taxed and insured and use road-legal tyres, just as it also demands that walkers keep as closely as possible to the right of way. But none of the groups are whiter than white! Tolerance and the realisation that there is plenty of opportunity for us all to enjoy the countryside in a responsible manner - and, for those who want to get away from engines and wheels, an understanding that the vast majority of unsurfaced rights of way are yours, exclusively, to enjoy. Don't stop 4x4 and bikers from the few miles they have legitimate access to.

Ian Allder
As both a walker and a green laner I am in favour of keeping the greenlanes open. If more were created then the pressure on the land would be reduced. Illegal or irresponsible use cannot be condoned in any circumstances whether in the Dales or on the tarmac. Banning does not stop those intent on lawbreaking. Simply 'banning' is too popular a call and pastime in the UK - we have much to learn from the continent where attitudes reflect a spirit of sharing and tolerence. No lobby/action group should be able to have the power to solely implement their selfish point of view. The countryside is a facility to enjoy - whether on foot, on bike, in 4x4. Why deny our future generations the experience ?

Amanda Smailes
Motor cycles and 4 x 4 should be banned. People go walking to get away from noise and pollution and to enjoy the country side - how on earth can 4 x 4 or motorcyles enjoy the scenery around them if all they are doing is scramblling in and out of mud ditches which they have created? We have roads for cars, lets leave it that way-walkers do not congregate at car rallies etc, why would they? The law neds to change, gone are the days of transport being by horse and cart.

William Mitchell
They should be alowed to drive there, but only 4x4s and farm machinery.

Thomas Vaughan-Jones
Personally I think the rambling association are being totally unreasonable, fair enough we are causing a bit of damage to certain tracks but so what! We may as well use the planet as much as we can before we die! As a green laner we only have 5% of all tracks to use. I think that ramblers should be banned from using them or do at their own risk. I will do everything I can to help fight against the closure of these lanes. However I will still use the lanes even if we are banned.

John Melville
I was pleased to see that the BBC had brought this issue to the surface and was making people not involved with the issues more informed. It was a pity that the BBC decided in the interview to use someone clearly biased against motorised use that had been given time to prepare, whilst expecting a ballanced view to be formed by the public when the other side of the debate is put by people out for the day and have to ad lib. I think that they did very well under the circumstances butthe BBC should now arrange a follow up with equal representation. This is a well debated issue with lots of background, hidden agendas and misinterpretation, a subject fast becomming of major importance this year if irevocable damage to our human rights and our heritage is to be avoided. Many times the users have invited Minister Alun Michael to discuss the issues with them but he remains elusive.The BBC have made inroads with this article,it would be good if they could now finnish the job.

Jim
As a keen walker myself I feel that the sight of a track, be it damaged like this one or not is a very normal thing to see. Its part of the landscape and often a joy to see others using when your miles from anywhere! If a rambler saw a large tractor, with a farmer going a about its usual business and it was causing damage, you wouldn't think nothing of it, because its perfectly natural. Why should it be different for greenlaners?

Julian Harding
The green lanes need to be managed correctly as with other roads, bridleways and footpaths, illegal drivers and motorcyclists need to be stopped and punished, legal users should recieve the same respect as walkers and horse riders. country side for all!!

Robert Civil
I spend much time in the countyside with my family walking and cycling, I also responsibly ride my motorbike "offroad" on legal row's or "Green Lanes". I believe there is room for everyone in the countryside as long as they are responsible and considerate users. I am a member of the TRF who promote responsible use and help maintain, support row's etc Everyone should work in harmony with as fellow countryside users. On a typical day out I will come across all kinds of people, on horses, walking, cycling, or motorised vehicles, in most cases people are polite friendly etc, apart from the odd biggot.

Tony McCusker
If people want peace and quiet on their walks the answer is simple, don't walk on roads. The impression given in this item on your programme gave the impression that people were riding and driving all over the countryside. The fact that vehicle rights of way are a tiny proprtion of the whole network was faded out early in the item and ignored on the second when Alan Kind made the point again.If there are vehicles on other rights of way, the law already exists to deal with the problem. If the structure to deal with this problemis inadequate what chance is there of further legislation succeeding? The law abiding groups will refrain but the others will not and the problem remains. This was not a fair presentation, because some people do not like us is not a good reason for banning us!

Ian Parker
Many off road groups actively repair lanes in association with their county councils to ensure they can be enjoyed by all. Where as ramblers lobby their local councils to take action. In general I feel the anti laning factions have grabbed the media spotlight and their agenda is to make laning as socially unacceptable as possible without providing a sound argument for the banning of this activity.

Graham Thorn
You have only posted the views of the pro vehicle lobby what about all the people who object to the destruction of the country side by motorised vehicles?

Chris Marsden
Stop winter use, drop some stones in, and walkers can walk anywhere away from the lane. A bit of common sense required. But tractors must also be stopped, their use is hundreds of times more, and very much more damaging!

Sean Kearney
There are quite a lot of disabled people who cannot walk up the hills and will be denied the chance to be in the countryside and take in the views unless these roads remain open.

Paul Rubery
Considering the goverment can and do build motorways through green belt land it dosnt really show that they can be serious about stopping recreational driving off road, or is it a case of there not making any money from it?

N.Leyland
Some people are physically incapable of walking any distance and 4x4 vehicles provide their only real access to the desolate areas others think so highly of. Off Road sites are not an alternative to using greenlanes, they are in general a completely different experience……..to intonate sites as being a “pay” option is akin to suggesting walkers use there local park! I see no one has mentioned the impact on the rural economy. Greenlaners typically spend on fuel, food and drink and camping or hostelry fees, I would like to see members of the rural business community comment on what they think closing lanes would mean to there lively hood!

Michael Dyer
Responsible use of unsurfaced rights of way should not cause a problem to anyone with a reasonable degree of tolerance. ALL users should band together in the condemnation of the illegal and irresponsible users who cause so much distress.

Ross Kennedy
It's not a "war", although this makes dramatic headlines. We have an anti-motoring lynch party here. Did you know the 'tranquility' is sometimes disturbed by helicopters airlifting in materials to repair Footpaths? No 4x4 damage there ... so who should be banned for that?

Pat Warren
I strongly feel that motorised vehicles (other than farm vehicles) should not be allowed to offroad because of the destruction they cause. I would point out that Ramblers' ethos is to maintain the countryside.

Will Jones
Lets be sensible about this now, as i fear big problems around the corner if we cannot learn share the countryside.

Leigh Ryder
I walk, mountain bike and drive a Landrover on green lanes when my health allows me. The selfish intentions of individuals trying to ban vehicles is disgracefull. They are effectively trying to prevent access to a large number of people including young familes, the elderly and people with mobility problems from our beautiful countryside. If they don't want to see vehicles pottering along at around 12mph I suggest they walk on the 98% of network vehicles can not access.

Colin Smith
They should be banned of course. Walkers should be banned as well, it's been shown that walkers cause erosion of the pathways. Lets just ban everyone, it's much simpler, a licence similar to a fishing licence should be required to gain access to the Dales.

Alan King
I have witnessed first hand the kind of antics the 4x4 brigade get up to at Malham ~ coming towards us was a convoy of 4x4's driven by 30/40 somethings led by a Landrover flying the Union flag and driven by shaven headed 20 somethings. It was follow my leader up and down the worst part of the track, carving up the ground even more. I spoke to the park warden about the incident and he relayed that these drivers head for the deepest ruts as part of the drivers challenge. Sometimes when vehicles become stuck and they have a winch on board, they have been known to winch from a farmers gatepost and end up destroying the post in the process. I am personally not convinced that the very wide and deep ruts we saw on the TV were made by a tractor as farmers tend to use land rovers on the open moorland. Good luck to Mike Bartholomew.

Sandra King
Both my husband and I enjoy walking in the countryside, my husband also enjoys riding his motorcycle in the countryside. Why do some walkers always attempt to spoil individuals free time fun.. Get a life it only comes around once.

Jamie Cooper
Has anyone thought of the access rights for disabled people regarding this issue . I know of people who use 4x4 vehicles as a means of getting out into the country. As they cannot walk or cycle , closure of these green lanes will effectively mean that they have no access at all

Paul Wheatley
I believe a weight limit should be imposed. The heavier vehicles cause the damage, just as on surfaced roads.

Keith Cracknell
I think with better management (weight limits bans during bad weather etc and people working together to fight illegal use these places can be shared as i feel i may not be able to walk for the rest of my life so in sometime yet i hope i may have to resort to either a quad bike or some form of transport to get me about as i will struggle over style etc but byeways and most rupps are easier access for me lets think of all including the disabled and the old,i hope to be hiking for many years to come but when i cant what will i do?

James Chester
Being brought up on the edge of the Yorkshire Dales, I spent many of my formative years walking, climbing, camping and generally enjoying the local countryside. I particularly enjoyed the opportunity to walk many of the less used footpaths, nearer to nature and all that. I would now like the chance to show my sixteen year old son some of the countryside right on his doorstep. Unfortunatly he is profoundly disabled. The only opportunity he gets to see the Yorkshire Dales is via the few legally driven green lanes, for which we use a four wheel drive. I do not drive illegally, and would be the first to report the idiots who do the vast majority of green lane users a great disservice by their selfish activities, driving too fast, over unsuitable lanes or lanes which have TRO's. There are still countless miles of footpaths and bridleways for walkers to walk without being disturbed by four wheel drives - you cannot get a Landrover over a style! Why should my son be deprived of his rights because of a few, albeit extremely vocal walkers, selfishly wanting the Yorkshire Dales to themselves. Do they never consider how lucky they are to be able to walk? They obviously do not consider those unable to.

Julian Kempson
If a walker gets hurt on the moors and needs help what happens? They are rescued by some one in a 4x4 if they can get to them if not they would need a helicopter or people on foot to get them out If 4x4 cars are banned from the lanes they will get over grown and would be harder or impossible for help to get to them. I have in the past given lifts to walkers caught up in bad weather and not perpared for it if we were banned then they may have got into trouble.

Ron Eddings
Banning will not stop the cowboys. They will continue to use the lanes and any other piece of open land for illegal use.

Daniel Taylor
We motorcyclists have paid our way to use a limited amount of byways which are now being threatened. A motorcycle leaves about 1% of the damage that a 4x4 does, so please, dont put us all in the same group. If we pay for tax, insurance and MOT to use these byways, then its the council who should be in charge of the upkeep of these lanes. But, please, dont put motorcyclists in the same class as 4x4, we dont leave anywhere near the same amount of mess!

Christian Smith
I think motor bikes and jeeps should be banned they make the country side a horrible place to be, and the smell is horrible!

John Sackley
Yesterday I spent £750 on bits for my off roader with out byways I wouldn't have done so - where would that leave the business that I brought from? We believe the government is acting with out all the facts and as things stand at the moment negative media is not helping our cause. We need all the help we can get into saving our favorite past time.

Philip
Let's ban everything: cars, motorbikes, hunting, fishing, shooting, walking, guns, bird watching, smoking, alcohol, dancing and thin people because every one of the above is a cause of irritation to someone somewhere...

Mrs. J.A. Hawkesworth
All engine-powered vehicles should be banned from using byways, ridgeways and tracks originally intended for horse drawn vehicles. Only walkers, cyclists and horse riders/drivers should have access.

Dan Bartholemew
If we want the countryside to be a nice quiet place, where no damage ever occurrs, why stop at banning 4x4 drivers from roads which they have a historical right to drive. Why not also stop the cyclists, horse riders, fishermen, walkers, bird-watchers and every human being. This would make the countryside fantastically quiet and deserted! much better for all!

John Warton
My concerns are that walkers appear to be taking on this issue on the basis of impact on their own use and not on straight forward merits of whether vehicle users have a fundmental right to access. PS I use green lanes, bridle ways and footpaths etc. generally on foot, ocassionally on bicycle, rarely on horseback but to date I am not a motor vehicle user of green lanes.

Ian Weston
The local government have stuck their heads in the sand for too long and failed to maintain these highways which is why we are at crunch point. A dedicated network of unsurfaced rights of way should be introduced across the land, thus allowing continued motorised recreation in the countryside and a clear and concise right for everyone.

Mr Scott Johnson
Define surfaced - so a greenlane is unsurfaced - then is it? sorry but it is surfaced just because its grass and not tarmac doesn't make it unsurfaced. As i understand it Byways UCRs are roads that didn't get metaled over the years because they were of little use to most people. We all cause damage to the routes whether it be on foot on horse or in/on a vehical. Their are lots of cases were local land rover trails bikes clubs have work for no money or reward to repair routes damaged by walkers and horses as well as damage from wheels. When do you see walkers working out in the middle of no where? never.

Tim Crowther
There's almost nowhere left to ride off-road. Can't a sensible compromise be reached or do the rambles expect us to pay for our sport while they roam everywhere for free?

J. Goldsmith
No vehicle should be used anywhere other than on a purpose built road (unless being used for agricultural purposes). All vehicles cause noise and pollution and no one has the right to contaminate the land for possibly generations to come.

Andrew Beevers
Responsible usage of 4x4s and motor bikes should be allowed to continue. There are many disabled people whose only acess to some of our beauty spots is via a 4x4. Live and let live!

Graeme Hoose
Studies undertaked so far prove that walkers and farm vehicles are the major causes of erosion and damage in on the current ROW network. All damage shown allegededly due to "green laners" is usually caused by farm vehicles, and in one case in the Dales by industrial plant that had to be moved in to repair the damage done by Ramblers ! Get real Ramblers, the pollution and congestion you cause travelling to places is far more damaging to the environment than the odd tyre track or the noise of a engine labouring through the mud caused by the tramping of your feet.

Rick Yeomans
4x4's are the only way I can get out into the countryside. I've suffered severe joint problems for 12 years and find walking difficult. I'd be very restricted if these vehicles were banned.

Andy Hall
Sadly, we live in a society where people have more money and leisure time, and increasingly less social responsibility. People need to realise that we are all custodians of our heritage for the brief time that we are on this planet. We should always endeavour to leave things in an improved state. It is quite clear that off roaders do not care for the countryside, and do not demonstrate this social responsibility.

Richard Talbot-Smith
Any law will not deter the very element the legislation wishes to exclude (i.e. illegal users), as what they currently do is illegal. The proposal to reduce the time in which evidence may be gathered to make a claim for byway status from 25 years to one year is totally unjustifiable. In my opinion, this one point highlights that this consultation is merely a token gesture to protocol and that the government is pandering to these opposition groups. Researching of these claims can and does take years of work, to reduce this timescale is an insult to all of the people who have spent years researching this element our heritage and cultural past. I sincerely hope that this proposed legislation is re-assessed and a based upon factual evidence (rather than opinionated guidance) that is indicative of current state the entire 5000 miles of vehicular access routes within the UK, rather than the cherry picked sites visited by the Rural Affairs Minister.

G. Owen
Ramblers have been trying to have 4x4s and motorbikes banned from byways for some time, and the Early Day Motion (EDM) 380 which was first put down on 8th January 2004 by John Mann seeks to ban all motorised vehicles from byways. It has also been known for byways to be blocked with wire, branches and on rare occasions devices designed to damage vehicles. This is completely unacceptable, as these byways have historically been used by traffic for hundreds of years. The Green Lanes of the UK are maintained by people who are enthusiastic about being able to travel along these Rights of Way, and who are fed up with being wrongly perceived by the media because of the irresponsible actions of a minority. It seems obvious to me that the traditional mismatch of opinions between ramblers and off road drivers needs to be solved to allow any solution to be workable. Perhaps a body to govern the use of byways and guard against irresponsible behaviour by off roaders, as well as looking into unofficial byway closing tactics would be the best solution, allowing both sides adequate representation and impartiality.

Ian Muir
Off roading in any of our national parks is nothing more than vandalism. This small minority are scaring the countryside, spoiling it's natural beauty enjoyed by the majority of people who visit and financially help to maintain them.

Greg Williams
Law abiding use of unsealed roads is a legitimate recreational pastime. Damage caused by any of the user groups is a problem that should be managed by co-operation and agreement.One user groups views and wishes should not be promoted above, and to the discriminatery exclusion, of others.

Essex Land Rover Club
We have a rights of way officer who is very active in the local community and works with local parish councils and the county council. Just last weeken, we had a large team of volunteers out clearing lanes to make them enjoyable by all. Last year, we helped a parish council clear a footpath - a route we cannot use! the maintenance day was open to all to help, but no walkers were present, aprt from those who stopped on their Sunday afternoon stroll to moan that we were on the footpath! (without vehicles that is). there is a lot more to this issue than your programme suggests.