BBC HomeExplore the BBC
This page has been archived and is no longer updated. Find out more about page archiving.

24 September 2014
Hereford and WorcesterHereford and Worcester

BBC Homepage
»BBC Local
Hereford & Worcs
Things to do
People & Places
Religion & Ethics
Arts and Culture
BBC Introducing
TV & Radio

Sites near Hereford & Worcester

Black Country
Mid Wales
South East Wales

Related BBC Sites


Contact Us

About Herefordshire

Hereford/Wales map. Original (C) Ordnance Survey
How the border could look.

Herefordshire in Wales?

It's been suggested that Herefordshire could be better off by being part of Wales. But what do you think?

It's claimed Herefordshire could benefit from being integrated with Wales.

A member of the Welsh assembly suggested the county would benefit from Welsh investment in rail links and could even contribute to building a line to the Rotherwas Industrial Estate.

"King Offa would be turning in his grave at the thought of moving the borders anywhere other than on his dyke!"
Leominster MP, Bill Wiggin

Simon Edwards farms on the Herefordshire/Welsh border and is the former county chair of the NFU.

He says the county would benefit from such links: "We always look over the border and are envious of the farmers in Wales as they have a Welsh Assembly that really cares about the countryside and cares about farming.

"They know that by having a strong vibrant countryside, they create employment.

"By giving farmers money from grants, it stimulates the economy in the countryside and they're more understanding of the farming community.

Hereford City Wall (C) English Heritage
The city wall was built to keep the Welsh out!

"In England, we haven't anybody making decisions in the English parliament that knows anything about agriculture."

But MP Bill Wiggin, a former shadow Secretary of State for Wales, says Welsh public services are in a perilous state and might drag Herefordshire down: "What we've got to be grateful for is we've got a particularly unique heritage in Herefordshire.

"There are tremendous cultural links on both sides of the border and we should be celebrating that, rather than moving it.

"King Offa would be turning in his grave at the thought of moving the borders anywhere other than on his dyke!"

last updated: 13/11/06
Have Your Say
Do you think Herefordshire would be better off in Wales? Let us know what you think...
Your name: 
Your comment: 
The BBC reserves the right to edit comments submitted.

John Davies
An extract from the discussion of Hereford on Wiki....Hereford: Founding Date?This article has the founding as 'around 700 AD' but the article on the Bishop of Hereford says the See was founded in 676. Surely there must have been a settlement there before then or could the See have been founded on a 'green field' site? --Cavrdg 13:01, 27 July 2005 (UTC)I think the point missing here is that Hereford really didn't appear out of the blue in either 700AD nor 676AD. It was re-named Hereford once the assimilation into Mercia was completed in the 8th Century. "Hereford" and the Welsh kingdom of Ergyng (the sister kingdom of Gwent) has many hundreds of years of history before the Mercians "founded" the town and you may be interested to learn that it was not until the Laws In Wales Acts of 1535 and 1542 that the uncertainty over the border was unilaterally put to bed by English Law. However, Herefordshire remained predominantly Welsh speaking until the 17th century with Welsh being spoken as late as 1750 in the Kentchurch area. Just out of interest....

About to leave the county....
It seems to me that Herefordshire has become mecca for people from the South East and London to build their castles in their very own corner of 'England'. All the traditional friendly, welcoming traits of Herefordians slowly being replaced by the cold, impersonal touch of the inhabitants of the South East. Perhaps if we moved into Wales where these qualities are more common we could cherish our heritage a little more. Herefordshire is not Surrey, Berkshire or Kent, but the longer it stays a part of England than it may as well be. We should look West not East.

Di Baxter
I was born in Hereford and am vey proud of thanks to England. It's as if Hereford is in a time bad thing in my view, as it remains unspoiled. Would we be better off as part of Wales? Probably...we wouldn't be worse off for sure and many have Welsh routes.

In a lot of ways the attitudes of the Herefordshire public crystallize everything that is ugly about the English nation: xenaphobic, jingoistic and totally ignorant. Why don't people just accept that historically a lot of Herefordshire has far more in common with Wales than England?

Richard Ap' lewis Ap'davies
The Comments made regarding the beaker people is absolutley wrong. The beaker style pots found throught largely southern Britain in which the design came from the Beaker peoples doesn't denote that they were the original indigenous peoples of Britain. Anyway the Group what is decribed as beaker peoples were only a collection of scattered tribes who used that style of cooking ware and not a defined ethnic group & finding pots just denotes that there was trade with Welsh (Brythoneg) Tribes in Britain. Artifacts from Syria have been found but this doesn't mean the Syrians were Indigenous my friend! Recently Bones from Pavaland Cave site in Gower were tested for DNA & When They extracted DNA from the World famous Red Lady " Recently decovered to be male" of Pavaland & that the the burial was older than thought and that they was determined to be 29000+Yrs old , Also the remains were found to be from the same era of Gower penisular and that they were interred. The scientists found also that Welsh people were of the same DNA. The beaker people your refer to only go as far back as 300BC or 5000yrs ago! Fat saxon please don't be ashamed of your German heritage , embrace it!

Fat Saxon
I agree we English are strangers in out own land and should be deported back to Northern Europe where we belong. Then the whole of "Lloegr" including Herefordshire would return to its its indiginous population ie the Beaker Folk !

Richard Ap ' Lewis Ap' Davies
I find It quite hilarious at all the People squealing Hereford is English , esecially theose so-called English folk with Welsh surnames. Ponder this! If you regard yourselves English you actually are foreigners to britain anyway as your ancestors came from Grmany , Holland & Demark in the late 6th to 9th century when The whole of England & Half of Scotland used to be Welsh speaking. The welsh word for England is Lloegr actually means Lost lands to the Welsh. You cannot deny or re write history! The bare facts are out there just read The manuscripts from ancient Welsh scholars: Gildas , Nennius who documented your ancenstors invading our celtic land of Prydain.

Herefordshire is just another generic 'shire' county in England with very little to offer. The people who live here are too narrow-minded to acknowledge that their county has any welsh identity whatsoever.This is a shame becuase if they did their home might stand a chance at actually developing into worthwhile place to live. Take a look around, Herefordshire is dying.The county is bottom of the pile as far as England is concerned - the transport links are awful and the only people who want to come here are retirees looking for cheap housing and Eastern European migrants here for a quick buck.At least in Wales there is an actual identity and a way of life to protect and help prosper.It doesn't take a genius to see that Herefordshire's Englishness has just been painted over it's welsh origins.Richard the Lionheart may feaure in the stained-glass at Dinmore Manor for example, but the name originates from the welsh 'Din Mawr' meaning 'great hill'.Perhaps if the ignorant public of Herefordshire paid a little more attention to their county's origins they might appreciate their Welsh ancenstry a little more.

Engish Pembrokian
give the Engliah back monmouthshire and pembrokeshire (little England beyond wales) and u have a deal

Tim Hodgins
It was once our land, we should have Hereford back in Wales. You need our help, money and sporting achievers.

sorry to say but hereford used to be part of wales! this is why it has alot of street names in welsh! hereford use to be part of the ROYAL HOUSES OF WALES. the kingdom of powys! alot of land of wales has been been taken by english over the past years! its only fare to see it returnd to its turn owner

Welshman in Exile
Clinging to the notion that Hereford is in the 'West Midlands' does not make it true, the last time I checked Llandinabo was nowhere near Solihull!

I am certainly not going to let any 'Welsh' person render me as a foreigner in my own country. The city of Hereford was founded by Anglo-Saxon soldiers, you will find there is a Herford in Westphalia, Germany close to Saxony. If Leominster and Ross wish to go Welsh, that's fine by me. But Hereford is where our English nation begins.

Fiona, Bromyard WORCS!
We'd be much better off in Worcestershire as you Herefordians would be in Wales. Here in Bromyard we always have considered Worcester to be our 'big' centre anyway. Herefordshire was only created 10 years ago on the grounds of a stupid little municipal whim, and 10 years down the line, look at what a backward little place it has become. It cannot even afford to keep it's roads and pavements even! Only a bit of Welsh wisdom can sort the isolated shambles of a county out west and south west of here, and let the eastern half be returned to Worcs as it was before 1997

Englishman, Herefordshire
Sir Henffordd, you run a huge risk of sounding like Wales' answer to Alf Garnett. I refer of course to Farmer Llywelyn from 'The Green Green Grass'!

So, sir henffordd, how about marching in Westminster and Birmingham to demand that Herefordshire as a county is recognised by the powers that be instead of being constantly forgotten? For instance campaigning for the dualling of the A4103 road which will give the County a fast link with the reat of the world - instead of wanting to 'jump ship'and be a burden on already fragile Welsh resources.I re-iterate my point. Herefordshire is as proud to be English as Powys and Monmouthshire are to be Welsh. Recognition by the outside world is what's needed here.

Sir Henffordd
Herefordshire has much more in common with Wales than England, the longer the so called 'English' inhabitants of Herefordshire insist on remaining a part of a country that practically ignores their existence then the the sooner it will dissappear.Hereford United supporters consider Shewsbury Town's visit a 'local derby' yet it is 60 miles away!Split the county down the middle and return the Western region to it's rightful home. WALES!!!!!

Herefordshire is a part of the West Midlands region of ENGLAND. Wales begins at the Monnow Bridge, Pontrilas. Perhaps we wouldn't be having this debate if the inhabitants of the county actually tried to make their voices heard and then, the place might actually find its way on to the map.

henffordd yng nghymru
Nothing to do with free prescriptions and modern politics. Hereford is geographically and characteristically Welsh 1. 'local' surnames like Watkins, Preece and Powell are in fact Welsh names. 2. Herefordians tend to support the Welsh rugby team rather than the English. Any Hereford retailer will tell you that Welsh rugger shirts outsell English ones! 3. We pay 'Welsh Water' rates, not Severn Trent! 4. Our rail transport links have long since favoured Wales rather than England, in fact both Hereford and Leominster stations are operated from Wales. 5. The Herefordian accent is unmistakably Mid Walian without any trace of West Country! The Welsh border must, for the sake of both Wales and England be re-drawn so that the entire course of the River Wye and the main North-South Wales road, the A49 runs in Wales. Therefore, Llanllienni (Leominster), Henffordd (Hereford) and Y Rhos (Ross) can be put out of their misery at long last, with Bromyard and Ledbury returned to the Malvern Hills district of England and the cider region of Much Marcle to Gloucester in the English West Country. That way the stupidly run Herefordshire Council can be taken care of once and for all.Now we need Plaid Cymru and other Welsh nationalists to stand in parishes in the western half of the administrative region to get the ball rolling!Cymru am byth!England for ever!Hereford in Wales NOW!

Welshman in Exile
Whatever you do, don't allow Hereford to become part of the bleak, corrupt, mediochre and poverty-hit disgrace that is modern Wales, run for the financial benefit of half a dozen Welsh Nationalist families who live comfortably on the South Coast. The light-hearted term 'Taffia' is sadly all too true. If the people of modern Rome were legally obliged to speak Latin all of a sudden 'because it was their birthright' and discrimination began against businesses and individuals for speaking Italian, do you think for one second that they'd put up with it? This is what has happened with the Welsh language, and it has been partially responsible for the dire state in which the Principality finds itself.If you can find an example of ultra-nationalism being a positive influence on modern Europe, feel free to point one out. I can only think of such movements in Germany and Italy - not great Nationalist successes, with the cozy Plaid Cymru/Labour alliance reminding me that 'Nazi' was short for 'National Socialist.'

obviously hereford would benefit from Welsh intelligence. they appreciate their heritage and would never agree to the carnage of the Rotherwas bypass. there are other ways, there are always other ways. to continue building a road over the newly discovered Rotherwas serpent is immoral and sacriligious and only has the go-ahead by men who have no connection to this beautiful part of England except by the financial profits they will make for themselves and their families - not the residents of Hereford.

hereford was once in wales until borders were moved i thought,I would welcome the move ,maybe we could get a decent road system ,even ludlow has a bypass,and maybe we could get some investment into local industries as well

Neale Martin
i would rather stay on the english side of the fence thank you

Bryn Goodall
We have to become part of Wales, theres so much rugby on SC4 more sport on tele has to be a plus. But on a better point we wouldnt be question for our weird accent or some of the words we use well i use.

Sarah Davies
I'd love hereford to be part of wales.People like me who live on the borders, when travelling to other parts of the country are frequently asked if we are welsh- because the accent sounds so similar!

I agree with Lover of the Ford.....Hereford is English and always will be. I'm not giving up Hollyoaks for anyone else either!!!.

Hereford is English, and us Brummies wont let it go, its took us years to build this place up, not to give it up to the Welsh.

The dispute is not about Hereford, it's about Herefordshire- read the title!Stop looking at history with selective memories!Information provided by Archenfield Archeology and taken from the Herefordshire history website:"Hereford was one of the first towns founded in England after the end of Roman Rule. Early Hereford was a frontier town on the border between kingdoms inhabited by the ancestors of the Welsh and of the English before there were such countries as 'Wales' and 'England'. The English never totally conquered what is now modern Herefordshire as the many Welsh place-names in the county attest - parts of Herefordshire were never in 'Anglo-Saxon' England."

Juliet Gallagher
Why! Where would this Welsh invasion stop. No no no!

No! The way Herefordians, english people feel about Hereford means it could simply never be in Wales. People will not stand for it, free nhs is not enough to make any true Herefordian want to be welsh!

Rachel Evans
I can see why people want to stick with their heritage etc but I love next to the Rotherwas industrial estate and have see the start of the building of the Rotherwas bypass road - it cuts straight across beautiful country side and there are yet more housing estates to be built around that. There used to be a railway stop at rotherwas - why not bring it back?! Then there would be no need to ruin the reputuaion of our beautiful countryside (which has been sold off for the road and houses). At this rate We will lose the value of our heritage either way - whether we are Welsh or English.

Free Prescriptions guys!! Think ahead!

We won Hereford fair and square back in the medieval period!we're not giving it up without a fight!

Chris Jones hsfc student
i have studied Hereford for my A'levels and it has nothing to do with wales.... who ever has suggested this has no concept of history or of the implications it will have generally. Hereford has been english for 1000 years (at least) and has been fought over many times and is a betrayal of everyones for farhters who fought to keep the welsh out of this county in years gone by.

Charlie Quick
Wales is big enough as it is. If Herefod becomes part of Wales im moving somewhere else!Who thought up this silly idea?Im voting Hereford to stay where it is thank you.

Sir Henffordd
It really is very sad how so many people can discard and ignore their heritage. anyone who claims that Herefordshire is 100% English is very short sighted, unfortunatley English culture has diluted Hereford's Welshness to a miniscule amount.I'm waiting for the results of a recent genetic study done in the county as part of a history of Britain, perhaps then we will see just how 'English' Herefordshire is!!!!

No, no, no - outrageous, nonsensical, absurd. Herefordshire has been a part of the Kingdom of England since at least 927AD and before that part of the English Kingdom of Mercia. What a ridiculous idea!

William Gruff
Give them an inch and they'll take a yard, as we say in England, but then no one expected the Welsh to take too long getting above themselves at our expense. The number of people in England who favour the establishment of an English Parliament now outnumbers those who do not by two to one and independence isn't so very far ahead. The Welsh may well come to decide that being part of Herefordshire is a better long-term option once the English take control of their exchequer and put an end to Barnett Plus but it's nice to see them feeling optimistic, for a change.

David Ford Lane (English Democrat)
The Welsh and Scots continue to benefit from investment and additional monies provided through the Barnett Formula. The asymmetrical devolution that has been imposed in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland cannot be reversed. It has led to social injustices that will no longer be tolerated by the people of England. English demand for justice has fomented a new and vigorous English Nationalist movement that will not be denied. The lab/Cons/Lib Dems are directly responsible for this dire situation and continued support for them will only serve to encourage their destructive ambition and further fragment cross border relationships.In a recent ICM poll 68% of the English population want their own Parliament. More significantly an astounding 59% of the English want Scotland to be independent and out of the Union. Scotland’s clamour for independence is now so strong that some think that it will inevitably lead to the end of Britain, as we know it. England will justifiably demand full fiscal independence and will inevitably pursue policies that have been hitherto confined to the nationalist parties of the smaller countries of Britain. A few free prescriptions will seem like 'fools gold' some are calling it 'celt gelt' will be very different when they have to finance it themselves.Hereford is English!

Colin Ray
Simon Edwards extols the virtues of the Welsh Assembly and then says ..."the English parliament doesn't know anything about agriculture".. For the sake of educating Mr. Edwards, England, unlike Scotland and Wales has neither a parliament or and assemby. The English parliament he refers to is the United Kingdom parliament in Westminster, where Welsh and Scottis MPs vote on purely English matters.Perhaps if England had its own parliament, English rural affairs would dealt with with far less incompetence that is currently the case.

Country Bumpkin
No way, just because people have "Welsh" surnames does not make Hereford Welsh, anymore then it makes Wales French because some folk there have a Norman surname!

W Churchill
Never thought of why English taxes subsidise the Welsh through the Barnett formula. what we need is an English parliament.

Campaign for an English Parliament to look after the interests of us English. I here Monmouthshire is set to return to England after the May Welsh Assembly Elections.

Lee Davis
No it should not be integrated with Wales! It is English land and should remain that way!

Lover of the Ford
Hereford is English and always will be. Anyway it has to be for us to get channel 4 and i'm not giving up Hollyoaks for anyone.

Robert Apps
Bill Wiggin obviously does not recognise that part of his constituency is west of Offa's Dyke. The border should be the A49.

Ceri Davies
Wales or England? What, where and who is Herefordshire. Modern boundaries have it in England, but history would have it in Wales and, lets be fair many of the place names and people names show a welsh ancestry. Surely though who you are is more local than these more modern national creations as both England and Wales are. Hereford sits in a rural area on the Wye in the welsh March and surely in the first instance people should have some loyalty to this region rather than to an artificial boundary? The Wye valley being the natural area? English or Welsh you share more living in the Welsh March with each other than you do with people from other areas of either country. As for being better, Wales would win, it’s more local, and for most Herefordians (Davies, Evans, Williams, Morgans, and Rees et al) it is the land of your fathers.

Moy D
Herefordshire would not be better off in Wales - unless you want your Council Tax banding to go up by two bands and never need a Dentist

Interesting that many people think that if Herefordshire became a part of Wales they would become Welsh. As a Welsh man who has lived in many parts of England for most of my life I would support the idea of the change for economic reasons alone.

John Nr Ludlow but in Herefordshire
Maybe the council tax would be cheaper! its at least £400 more expensive in Herefordshire compared with Powys. Would be good to incorporate Ludlow, as once it was reputed to be the capital of Wales. Our culture would benefit by being independent of England. The roads are dreadfull in Herefordshire/Shropshire, you just have to go over the border to see how its done.

Look over the history books and you will find how the border has changed hundreds of times over the years mostly back towards the welsh side under english opression. I want the english people reading this to take a look at a map and see how many welsh named places there are along the border english counties. I believe Herefordshire would not only be a better and more prosperous place to live if it were part of Wales but it would also be justice to the welsh nation!

jill of hereford belive me you would not want to poach brecon we are a town full or road works and closed streets come and visit and see for your self!!!!

I think that if HM Government would stop faffing around in Iraq and spent money on English rural areas... we wouldnt need to be part of Wales!

Jill of Hereford
I dont think you are serious. Its in England. What would you say if we wanted to poach Brecon or Swansea? Now theres an idea!

Not only are a lot of surnames in Herefordshire anglicised Welsh ones, the name Hereford itself is Anglicised from the Welsh HEN FFORDD meaning old crossing through the river.

The ignorance on show here about Herefordshire's history truly belies belief!!!!! Herefordshire was never totally conquered and thus WAS NEVER A PART OF ANGLO-SAXON ENGLAND! Can I invite anyone named Williams, Morgan, or Rees (or any other Welsh surname) to take a quick look at their family history and I think you'll find that your family aren't as 'English' as you may think! The 'border' as we know it was only created afterwards! WALES FOREVER!

we deserve a better service from our goverment if they cannot help maybe it would be better for hereford to be part of wales,most of english people already think we live in wales i am all for it we will get better roads etc.

I agree with the first comment from Sarah, it seems most people in Herefordshire with welsh anglocised surnames. It seems all those Powells, Jones, Jenkins', Hughes, Watkins' Thomas' etc have turned their back on their heritage and bloodline. It's funny how two anti-welsh comments on here are from people named James and Davies! What turncoats! Your ancestors fought hard for their independance and suffered hundreds of years of English oppression only for you to denounce them! Herefordshire is Wales in all but name! Cymru am Byth!!!!!

Heather Howick ne Herbert
Having lived away from Hereford for some time i remain fearlessly loyal to my hometown Hereford. We are English, always have been, always will be.Be proud of our county where and as it is. we are unique and should remain so.Having travelled all around the uk i always feel i am home once i cross the severn bridge and dont want it any other way. Leave well alone!

Mrs U Heap
If we were in Wales,we would have better roads Ours are a menace at the moment, mainly the B and C roads, we feel cut off from the rest of England, most people do not know where Herefordshire is.

mathew rees-hereford
proud to be english,proud to be herefordion!we dont want to be part of wales

Julian in Bromyard
Who would shoot who with a long bow from the Cathedral tower in Hereford on a Sunday??

Lewis Williams
awful idea. people fought and built walls to keep the welsh out. english till i die

Myrna Harding
If we became part of Wales our costs would go up seriously. We are privileged to live in Hereford, please don't change it.

most people who live in Hereford are originally Welsh -most of the surnames are anyway-they've just been anglicised over the tears-so it wouldn't be a dramatic upheaval for us.

Graham Bridge
Why not change sides. We get precious little from the Government at the moment and we might get a lot more from the Welsh Assembly.

prescriptions would be cheaper!!!!

No. I'm from Herefordshire but now live in Bristol. Everyone I've met here thinks it's in Wales and its very annoying! If we changed sides, I'd never hear the end of it!!!!!!!!

Daniel Wilkes
Whilst I am of the opinion that in this country we are ALL British and that attempts to make distinctions between Welsh and English, Scots and English etc. are divisive and pointless (I am in fact a bit of all three), looking at previous disastrous changes the borders of the County of Herefordshire I would far rather leave things as they are.

ari parry
would we all get free welsh lessons? I'm up for it!

mark bean
yeah why not. everyone thinks ross-on-wye is in wales anyway! as part of england, herefordshire is certainly a forgotten backwater. this might change that.

Anthony Smith`
Richard the Lion Heart sold his rights and privalages for either a yearly amount or cash. One of these was Citizenship to the people of Hereford in Wales. So why not become part of Wales. The amount of interest given to us by the West Midlands on rail and roads and other infrastructure is miniscule. We would be better served as part of Wales.

Jason James

No Way, it is in ENGLAND! How can you just change your nationallity because of some daft parlimentarian, no way, never!

Roy Davies

Michelle Morgan
Heaven forbid! As much as i love the Welsh, us Herefordians have fought hard for centuries to remain English and i believe most Herefordians would be horrified to suddenly become Welsh.

Boris Henry
No Way, im proud to be English, hereford is fine how it is!

go for it!

andy wigmore
not a chance.we built walls to keep the welsh out.HEREFORD IS ENGLAND,ENGLAND IS HEREFORD!!!

Tim Tranter
I think agian this would be a smart move, Herefordshire would benefit from extra funding and once upon time Herefordshire was in Wales and it would be nice to see it returned to its rightful home

i dont agree with the idea hereford is in england Not WALES

bob davies
I am a Herefordian by birth and I am also English. As far as I am concerned, my native county will be English for ever. Most people in Herefordshire will not accept a change of nationality

Brian Croose
I think its an Amazing Idea. I am Welsh so the thought of coming home to the Land of my fathers without physically selling up and moving is great. If it is True that Hereford would attractive more Investments from the Welsh Assembly is in better News. I am 100% behind the idea the sooner the better.

Go to the top of the page

Leominster Priory
Some the most interesting buildings in the two counties

Traffic Jam
Latest travel news

About the BBC | Help | Terms of Use | Privacy & Cookies Policy