Bronson: Nicolas Winding Refn interview

Danish filmmaker Nicolas Winding Refn has carved a niche in violent cinema. He broke through with the ultra-violent Pusher (1996) at just 26-years-old and more recently directed murder story Fear X (2003) starring John Turturro. Refn's latest subject is Charles Bronson. Not the Hollywood actor; the icon of British thug culture (played by Tom Hardy) who was sentenced to jail for armed robbery in 1974. Instead of taking this as punishment, Bronson saw prison as a venue to further indulge his penchant for wreaking havoc.

Refn talks to us about his continuing fascination with murder and mayhem and why Britain's 'most violent inmate' has much in common with children's author Hans Christian Andersen...

Your first film Pusher was also your breakthrough film. Were you surprised by how well it was received given that it is very violent?

I was very much surprised that I was even able to make the movie when I did. I was very young and inexperienced so getting it off the ground was very surprising and it was even more surprising when I went on to make more films because then you realise just how difficult that is. In terms of its success, I never thought the movie would leave Denmark; Who would want to see a Danish gangster movie, you know? After Pusher I did a movie that was more experimental called Bleeder. I guess, in a way, it's my most interesting film. It's not the most successful film [in box office terms], but it's the one I have the highest regard for.

You made Fear X more recently. Given the setting and the American cast, it might look as if you were making a Hollywood debut, but there was no US money in it...

Yes, with Fear X there was no American money. It was a purely European setup shot in Canada. But it was a very difficult production because I had very high ambition and I had to learn about international financing and the impact of the whole distribution setup the hard way. But it was a very good experience.

The common thread through all your films is violence. Is it fair to say that you have a special fascination with this, or have you been pigeonholed?

Well, I have a very dark side. I think with Bronson I have been exorcising that out of me. I certainly don't like watching violent films very much anymore, especially now that I have children. I prefer to sit down and watch a romantic comedy, but I guess the brutality comes naturally to me...

You have been accused of glamorising violence. How do you feel about that?

In terms of my films, especially my earlier films, there were more people who had opinions about them than had actually seen them. I mean if you actually look at my films the violence is always taken as very negative. There are filmmakers out there who do the exact opposite and glamorise it and make it a part of pop culture, but in my films there is always a conflict there with the violence; you see that if you act violently, you lose. Same thing with Bronson.

Was the Bronson project something you went after, or was it offered to you?

I became involved because of the producer Rupert Preston who I've worked with for many years. He distributes all of my films in the UK and he got a hold of this project which I guess had been flying around for many years without getting made. He suggested I look at the script and I did. Actually, at that point I was very sick of anything to do with violent men so I thought it wasn't really going to be my cup of tea and I wasn't crazy about the way it was done, but I could see something very interesting in it; I just didn't know what it was exactly.

Were you aware of Charles Bronson at all before the script came into your hands?

I had no idea who he was. Rupert had to tell me the background, but when he got a copy of his biography and I read it, Charlie talks about how he 'always wanted to be there', talking about prison, and that's when I thought, 'maybe this is what I've been looking for. This is the way into the Charles Bronson story.' This film isn't about getting out of prison, or defying the experience of being in prison, it's about getting in. This makes him a fascinating character.

Tom Hardy in another demented display as Bronson.

Did you get the chance to meet and speak with him directly?

I quickly realised that I wouldn't be allowed to meet him. And I didn't really have a big desire to meet him. I mean once I saw my angle on it, I just took it in that direction. I knew I wanted to tell that story, you know? The film is not a biopic of Michael Peterson [Bronson's real name], it was about becoming Charles Bronson. I guess I drew very much on my own life and the life of Hans Christian Andersen.

Hans Christian Andersen, the children's author? Are you joking?

No. Actually, Hans Christian Andersen had a very interesting existence because all of his life he wanted to be famous, like desperately. And he tried very many different art forms before finding what he was good at and, of course, when he found it he became who he is. But he was completely obsessed with fame through all his younger years until he reached it. And I was very similar to him in that way. When I was young, that was a driving force for me, and I didn't just want to be famous, I wanted to be legendary, you know?

From your standpoint as an outsider, what do you think the Bronson story says about the penal system in this country and British culture in general?

Well, I can't really comment on the legal system and how it works; I don't know enough about it, but I think every country has an odd obsession with an outlaw, a dark horse who becomes a cultural icon. Bronson is a very personal thing for British people compared to the way I look at him, observing him as an outsider. To me he is just a fascinating personality.

The film looks great; it belies the low budget. But were you mindful not to make Bronson's world look too enticing?

There was no way we could make it look enticing, because being in prison is not glamorous, even if that is how Bronson sees it. I think the real challenge for us was, with the money we had, to make it an interesting looking movie. Again, we very quickly found out that we wouldn't be able to get into a real prison to shoot the movie. The Home Office wouldn't allow it because of the subject matter. Because of that we came up with the idea of shooting in an old Victorian building, which would give us an almost gothic approach to the concept of incarceration. The location people found an abbey for us to shoot in, up in Nottingham.

Do you prefer having the restrictions of a low budget if it means you're not being censored?

Definitely. That's how I like to work. Working low budget, of course, can be very aggravating because you're always nervous, thinking you might not be able to make it, and 'what if it doesn't work?', 'there's not enough money to go around', all those things. But at the same time, having a lot of money is a big headache. The higher the budget, the more restrictions you have. And the bigger the headache. What I like about having so little money is that it actually gives you more move-ability in what you can do and what you want to try, because there are less people around you who are nervous.

Bronson was nominated for a Grand Jury award at Sundance. How important are awards like that when it comes to getting the film out there?

Very important. Low-budget films are really dependent on festivals; they're the platforms [for them] to be released, or get picked up by a distributor, which is the most important thing. So, from a distribution point of view it means a hell of a lot because you're up against all these majors with all the money to spend on advertising. On a personal level, it's always great to get recognition and so forth. I mean, who wouldn't be happy if people are liking what you do?

Bronson is released in UK cinemas on Friday 13th March 2009.

Stella Papamichael | Published 13th March 09