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You are here > Test Match Special message boards > England > Too much respect for McGrath?

Discussion:

Too much respect for McGrath?

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Message 1 - posted by MKGooner (U1726006) , Jul 21, 2005

Do the England openers give to much respect to McGrath?

Ok, he is an amazing bowler, but why don't they attack him more. We saw it in the ODIs as well, ok different format, but with the same results!

Surely against McGrath the best form of defence is attack?
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Message 2 - posted by mightyreturns (U1675585) , Jul 21, 2005

Do the England openers give to much respect to McGrath?

Surely against McGrath the best form of defence is attack?

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It's exactly what i've been saying..I'm not saying run down the wicket and give your wicket away..You can attack by hitting 2's or 3's along the ground, but staying back in your crease in ultra defensive(scared to death of him)mode is asking for trouble.

He's the best defensive bowler in the world and england just played into his hands(don't we always?).

Just using your feet to try to put him off his line will keep him thinking.
At the moment, he's just running in without a care in the world..It really shouldn't be like that on this pitch in the bright sunshine.
It's not a flat deck by any means, but it's hardly a minefield.

Funnily enough, pietersen is covering his off stump better than any other player so far.
And this is from a guy who i think has a dubious technique at test level.
He's certainly using his feet.

It's been a tragic showing from england with the bat so far against an australian team who seem very much a one man show at the moment.

It's all mcgrath.

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Message 3 - posted by lahoriyah (U1726974) , Jul 21, 2005

england was overconfidence which cost them the test match here. They thought that just becoz we got them out we can dominate well that didnt happened looks like england now need a good plan against them in coming days of this test match. I think they shoud open with bell and tres. no question wat so ever that glenn is a magician he can turn the match on his own what a great bowler.

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Message 4 - posted by MKGooner (U1726006) , Jul 21, 2005

Glad it's not just me that thinks so.

Just like the bowling this morning, the batsmen should take more of an aggresive stance.

Ok, I'm not saying to act like it's an ODI or 20Twenty but bat with a little more confidence!

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Message 5 - posted by gunslinga79 (U1723726) , Jul 21, 2005

totally agree with your common sense,
ultra orthodox technique is suicide against mgrath on the slope.
the 2 openers showed too much respect..they should have come out of the crease or tried sometihng.
As for the 3 right right handers, you've got to take a huge stride forward covering the stumps!
Have you seen chanderpaul and ganguly bat?
Unorthodox , covering the stumps but they frustrate and get the runs (against mcgrath..check the records).
terrible technique.

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Message 6 - posted by lahoriyah (U1726974) , Jul 21, 2005

yeh there is no confidence wat soever, its like watching a school kids playing, no one knows where is there off-stump is, no one has hardly used their feet against glenn.i think the best way to tackle him is to go after him make him feel that he is just a bowler and not a great bowler. Its true some batsman give him too much respect which in the end cost them their wicket. That why i like south african they just take him on ...

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Message 7 - posted by epistrophy (U1675217) , Jul 21, 2005

they went from one extreme to the other. In the 1 dayers they started with kamikaze batting, got routed, did it again, got routed again, and then shrank back into their shells. They have to go after runs, while trying to minimise risk. Also KP is getting well forward to McG which is helping. Good policy.

It's clear - our top order sort out this proble, we have a chance to win. If they don't, might as well give up now.

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Message 8 - posted by stella k (U1158261) , Jul 21, 2005

Well we started ok , - i missed the 20 minutes after tea so didnt see strauss and tresco fall.

We need to use some unorthodox way to defend against him. I'm not worried about scoring but just staying in. England have to try something , he's the threat . If we can play him , then we have a chance .

As it is we are staring down the barrel .

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Message 9 - posted by Garmez (U1726877) , Jul 21, 2005

But the technique was'nt orthodox, that was the problem. Tres fiddled around off stump as usual, Bell left a nice gate between bat and pad, Vaughan played back to one that he shouldnt have. Jones and Pietersen got in line and life seemed much easier!

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Message 10 - posted by canenglandplay (U1727861) , Jul 21, 2005

Once again Mcgrath was able to intimidate all our top order batsmen, we need to think like the Aussies, Get out there make runs and put the other guys under pressure.

The Aussies have been masters of this in the recent past, get on the feild, score quick runs and put the opposition bowlers on the back foot, then take command of the game.

This is done by taking on every bowler and not thinking OMG here comes McGrath...there goes my wicket

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Message 11 - posted by Swlabr (U1724596) , Jul 21, 2005

Average batsman v quality bowler

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Message 12 - posted by mightywillow (U1727989) , Jul 21, 2005

Yep, that just about sums it up.
None of these batsmen with the big exception of Michale Vaughan have actually proved themselves against the very highest class of bowler in the past 12 months - primarily because they haven't had to face any (through no fault of their own imight add).

The guy has 500 test wickets, and you don't do that without being special. He has dismissed both Lara & Tendulkar more times than any other bowler. Thats should tell you that simply trying to hit him off his length is easier said than done.

He's a class act, bowling against players who haven't faced too much class lately . Smashing he sub-county standard Bangladesh bowling arund was hardly the best preparation. Look at the shot Trescothick played - easy against trundlers, but not so easy against someone who bowls off-cutters as accurately as McGrath.

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Message 13 - posted by stella k (U1158261) , Jul 21, 2005

I still think we are over rating him . The batsmen have got to play better than this. Kp and G Jones played him well as he tired and did ok against the others.

Only Flintoff got a real stinker of a low ball, the rest have to look to their own mistakes for getting out. Either our top five score against him or its bring back Thorpe.

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Message 14 - posted by Swlabr (U1724596) , Jul 21, 2005

Graham Paul Thorpe, Probably the best batsman in England.

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Message 15 - posted by mightywillow (U1727989) , Jul 21, 2005

503 test batsman might want to disagree with your statement that we are over-rating McGrath. Those wickets have come at an average of only 21 as well !!

The batsmen just have to work out a way of playing him. The way Trescothick tried to flick him through mid wicket wasn't clever, but the others were got out.

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Message 16 - posted by stella k (U1158261) , Jul 21, 2005

Given that we played the first 3 overs of his spell ok and then lost five wickets in under five overs I think the problems are more on our side .

The slope and some indifferent bounce added to it but seeing KP's sound technique today I think the batsmen played their own part in giving mcg five wickets. Either we get somebody in who can get through his spells or we try another tactic but we cannot continue with this timid approach to one bowler.

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Message 17 - posted by Swlabr (U1724596) , Jul 21, 2005

I thought Brett Lee bowled quite well

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Message 18 - posted by Faisal Taquie (U1728189) , Jul 21, 2005

What a start to the Ashes!! This is as good of a rivalry as India vs. Pakistan. I wish I was watching the first day with Harmison knocking off the helmets of the Aussies!! I think after a long time, or maybe for the first time in a very long time, Aussies are getting a taste of their medicine. I'd be surprised if England don't win the Ashes!

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Message 19 - posted by Faisal Taquie (U1728189) , Jul 21, 2005

I agree with gunslinga79, the best defence against the Aussie bowling attack is to take the game to them. Attack from the word go, anything to be hit, hit it!

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Message 20 - posted by Swlabr (U1724596) , Jul 21, 2005

What bad deliveries

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