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You are here > Test Match Special message boards > England > Pakistan hard done by ?

Discussion:

Pakistan hard done by ?

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Message 1 - posted by surreysnob (U2670334) , Aug 21, 2006


I feel very sorry for the Pakistan players and supporters this morning, If there has been an accusation then there must be evidence.

I think Inzy team have conducted themselves throughout the tour extremely well, I have enjoyed the cricket, particularly watching Pakistan bat - they have been excellent and the series has been good, and generally from what I have seen played in a good sprirt between the sides.

What happened yesterday was bizarre in the extreme, I very much hope that the ICC, PCB and E&WCB can sort things out. Of course the result won't change but I really hope that the good relations between the teams and the supporters can be maintained.

I cannot see any evidence so far of Pakistan players having cheated and if there is some - then why not say how and what it was

Every england fan knows that we are not advers to exploring the dark arts ourselves, yet I am sure that we would defend our players against accusations just as Pakistan have rightly done .

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Message 2 - posted by surreysnob (U2670334) , Aug 21, 2006

Fairly typical of this board

Had I posted something illogical or inflammatory I'd have got about 50 responses by now.

There are a number of fans on both sides trying to pour petrol on this situation. which isn't helping anyone.

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Message 3 - posted by PacketOfCrisps (U5373402) , Aug 21, 2006

I suggest you take a look at the front page of today's Metro if you want conclusive evidence.

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Message 4 - posted by CNB (U2700001) , Aug 21, 2006

The problem is until we know (or at least get an opinion from the ICC) about whether or not the ball was tampered with, I don't know whether to feel sorry or condemn Pak!!

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Message 5 - posted by GeoPakistan (U2497493) , Aug 21, 2006

SurreySnob:

I agree with your comments. I am just amazed at the amount of people (unfortunatley English supporters) who find Pakistan as the side to blame in this incident.

As well as the number of people who have feel Pakistan did cheat..without any proof what so ever.

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Message 6 - posted by Christmas Stardust (U1726166) , Aug 21, 2006

at last..a reasonable and honest England fan. It makes me both laugh and feel sick at the hypocrisy that clouds this board.

If England had experienced what happened yesterday in say, Karachi with a neutral (but Asian) umpire, do you think they would have just accepted it without any protest at all (remember that the accusation was done in the most condescending of manners with NO EVIDENCE).

No, of course not...and to hear Gatting yesterday say that the Pak players were out of order beggars belief.

Remember a guy called Shakoor Rana, Mike?!!

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Message 7 - posted by nastykiwi (U2328066) , Aug 21, 2006

Well, based on the presumption of innocence until proven guilty, I fully support the Pakistan team on this one, and think that Hair is completely out of line.

He has acted in a totally high handed manner, arrogant in the supreme, and seems to think that he is above the game. And its not the first time he has been the source of contention.

He should be sacked. Get rid of the muppet.

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Message 8 - posted by cricket-Angel Swann (U3382697) , Aug 21, 2006

I have the strongest sympathies with the Pakistan team.

It seems that a complete breakdown of communication is at the crux of this.

Why, when the Pakistan team first emerged from their dressing room after making their protest, did the umpires (who were making their way off the field at that point) not simply turn around and walk back to the middle? All of this escalation could have been avoided at that point. It seems that both the unpires and the Pakistan team let their pride become more important than the game.

But ultimately it was the umpires who decided this game could not go ahead, not Pakistan.

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Message 9 - posted by Rover-the-Top (U1751589) , Aug 21, 2006

As well as the number of people who have feel Pakistan did cheat..without any proof what so ever.

Quoted from this message


But there is evidence - the men charged with making sure the rules are adhered to decided that Pakistan were cheating. Until there is firm evidence to prove otherwise, I will believe the two umpires acted correctly.

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Message 10 - posted by WarleyBear (U1719739) , Aug 21, 2006

The original incident may / or may not have been poorly handled by the umpires, but the point is that Pakistan may have started to see the game slipping away from them after a difficult and frustrating day in the field. I can understand that the Pakistan players may have been (rightly or wrongly) upset but they should have discussed the incident after CLOP at a senior level. Instead they tried to break the batsmens concentration by playing psychological games after the break. Can you imagine if a wicket had fallen just after their actions? So the umpires were correct to lift the bails and award the game to England. To not do so would have meant any club, county or country could try this over any umpiring decision to effect the outcome of a game. In retrospect I would suspect that Pakistan regret their actions.

A sad event for Pakistan, that snowballed out of conrrtrol, and a sad event for the whole of cricket.

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Message 11 - posted by Daphne_Whitethigh (U1773749) , Aug 21, 2006

I agree with the post mentioning the front page of the Metro, well worth a look, if you want evidence, there you go!

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Message 12 - posted by ak30rigg (U1773002) , Aug 21, 2006

"If there has been an accusation then there must be evidence."

The evidence was the change in the state of the ball in the eyes of the umpires.

"Every england fan knows that we are not advers to exploring the dark arts ourselves, yet I am sure that we would defend our players against accusations just as Pakistan have rightly done ."

Would we? - Atherton was in the wrong in his "ball-tampering" moment, Gatting overreacted badly in Pakistan.

Pakistan were wrong to refuse to play - they deserve the forfeiture penatly and may well be further penalised by the ICC.

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Message 13 - posted by U2573996 (U2573996) , Aug 21, 2006

Looking at the so called evidence I can see that Pakistan have not cheated and Pakitstan have therefore been hard done by.

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Message 14 - posted by CNB (U2700001) , Aug 21, 2006


Well, based on the presumption of innocence until proven guilty, I fully support the Pakistan team on this one, and think that Hair is completely out of line.

He has acted in a totally high handed manner, arrogant in the supreme, and seems to think that he is above the game. And its not the first time he has been the source of contention.

He should be sacked. Get rid of the muppet

Quoted from this message




If you are presuming innocence before judging guilt then that should also be extended to Hair!

That is why at the moment it's impossible to know who is being hard done by.

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Message 15 - posted by The Spirit of Adge Cutler (U4094429) , Aug 21, 2006

Anyone got a link? Some of us live in the styx and don't get Metro!

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Message 16 - posted by surreysnob (U2670334) , Aug 21, 2006

I just cannot see how any reasonable person can blame the Pakistan players at this point.

It seems to me that there was a complete communication failure between umpires, captains, referees and team coaches. I'd certainly like to know what was said to woolmer before he asked to speak to the referee.

Anyway my basci point remains, I think its a real pity after a sucessful away tour to Pakistan and nearly concluding a great series in England that we have managed to stir things up again for another ten years between these two great teams.

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Message 17 - posted by CNB (U2700001) , Aug 21, 2006


Anyway my basci point remains, I think its a real pity after a sucessful away tour to Pakistan and nearly concluding a great series in England that we have managed to stir things up again for another ten years between these two great teams.

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I think everyone will echo that sentiment!

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Message 18 - posted by WarleyBear (U1719739) , Aug 21, 2006

Two issues simply:

1. Ball tampering - guilty or not guilty ?

2. Leaving the field of play / refusing to play - guilty or not guily ?





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Message 19 - posted by ak30rigg (U1773002) , Aug 21, 2006

"I just cannot see how any reasonable person can blame the Pakistan players at this point."

It is unreasonable to refuse to continue to play a sporting contest simply because you disagree with an umpire's decision.

Now they may have a case to feel aggreived - none of us on these boards know whether or not this is the case - but their eventual reaction was intemperate and wrong.

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Message 20 - posted by Peter38 (U1905637) , Aug 21, 2006

I can’t believe that an umpire of Hair’s experience would take a decision like that unless (after studying the ball carefully) he was convinced that it had been tampered with. Why would he? It is such a big step to take without being 100% sure of the evidence of his own eyes!

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