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You are here > Test Match Special message boards > England > Second Test

Discussion:

Second Test

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Message 1 - posted by Left arm unorthodox (U2080819) , Mar 13, 2006

Congratulations to India on winning a match which looked like a dead draw at the end of the third day.

A great debut by Munaf Patel, who bowled sharply and got excellent reverse swing this morning, and more solid, top class batting by Dravid. I'm sure the match will be remembered, rightly, as the one in which Kumble got his 500th wicket. He bowled and batted superbly, proving once again how great he is.

England, however, can count themselves very unlucky. They had the rub of the green at Nagpur, but the pitch won the day. Here they had appalling luck and it cost them the game.

True, the batting in the first innings was not good enough and England eventually paid for it, but the umpiring yesterday was woeful and turned the match. It carried on today, though in a lost cause, as Taufel added to his errors.

Once again England's bowlers were excellent, apart from Plunkett, who showed his inexperience. With a bit more luck and better umpiring they would have wrapped up the Indian first inning much quicker and taken a few more scalps today.

Overall an interesting match, but one which England can rightly feel aggrieved at losing and which the Indian's will be delighted to win. Both sides can take some positives from the match and hopefully Mumbai will provide a fitting finale to the series.
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Message 2 - posted by Billy-Liar (U1996317) , Mar 13, 2006

We were outplayed.

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Message 3 - posted by mightywillow (U1727989) , Mar 13, 2006

The rub if the green is important when two sides are evenly matched.

You are right to say that India had it here, and England had it in Nagpur.

But to lose inside 4 days is a bit disappointing when you consider that England have won the toss again. Winning the toss in India is one of the most important pieces of luck that any side can have, and to have won the toss twice and only scored 393 and 300 1st Inns on good batting pitches is poor.

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Message 4 - posted by jsa - ¡¡¡\• (U1844352) , Mar 13, 2006

We were outplayed.

Quoted message from Billy-Liar




outplayed and outclassed

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Message 5 - posted by Left arm unorthodox (U2080819) , Mar 13, 2006

I disagree. England did not score enough in the first innings, but the bowlers were excellent and England deserved a lead. No luck and poor umpiring gave India a sniff and they took it, bowling well. An even match turned on its head. These things happen, but they shouldn't.

We were outplayed.

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Message 6 - posted by Left arm unorthodox (U2080819) , Mar 13, 2006

Winning the toss on a batting wicket is important and England did not score enough runs. However, the weather on the first two days did them no favours and the bowlers did not get the results they deserved in India's first innings. India played brilliantly once they had a sniff of victory, but they were given that through no fault of England's.

The rub if the green is important when two sides are evenly matched.

You are right to say that India had it here, and England had it in Nagpur.

But to lose inside 4 days is a bit disappointing when you consider that England have won the toss again. Winning the toss in India is one of the most important pieces of luck that any side can have, and to have won the toss twice and only scored 393 and 300 1st Inns on good batting pitches is poor.

Quoted message from mightywillowmightywillowmightywillowmightywillow


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Message 7 - posted by Sir_virgsandzamora (U2787561) , Mar 13, 2006

I disagree. England did not score enough in the first innings, but the bowlers were excellent and England deserved a lead. No luck and poor umpiring gave India a sniff and they took it, bowling well. An even match turned on its head. These things happen, but they shouldn't.

We were outplayed.

Quoted message from Left arm unorthodoxLeft arm unorthodoxLeft arm unorthodoxLeft arm unorthodoxLeft arm unorthodox




Well said - we got the rub of the green in Nagpur but yesterday was crucial. The decision to give Pathan not out was unbelievable and allowed India to get a lead!

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Message 8 - posted by mightywillow (U1727989) , Mar 13, 2006

We were outplayed.


outplayed and outclassed

Quoted message from jsa - ¡¡¡\•jsa - ¡¡¡\•




The real class came from Kumble with the ball & Dravid with the bat. Hardly surprising considering their ability & records.

But all the England players got in during the 1st Inns and then got out. I think that made the big difference.

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Message 9 - posted by mightyreturns (U3317277) , Mar 13, 2006

It's the batting, the same old problem.

Not enough in the 1st innings and another pathetic 2nd innings score.

I seem to be the only one on these boards who keeps bringing up our terrible 2nd innings scores of late(even during the ashes).

Strauss(after a great start for england)is having problems, it's hard to blame the youngster cook(although he had a poor match).
Bell tried hard, jones made 50 in the 1st innings(a rare thing indeed for him and normal service resumed in the 2nd innings with 5).
The middle order looks so brittle and a long tail in this match didn't help.

India by far the better team in the end of this test match.

Well done flintoff though, a 70 and a 50.
No blame layed at his feet for the defeat.
Shame some of the others didn't put in the hard work like him.

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Message 10 - posted by mightywillow (U1727989) , Mar 13, 2006

Winning the toss on a batting wicket is important and England did not score enough runs. However, the weather on the first two days did them no favours and the bowlers did not get the results they deserved in India's first innings. India played brilliantly once they had a sniff of victory, but they were given that through no fault of England's.


Have to disagree on that one. England did make mistakes, it wasn't down to the umpiring. Look at the way the batsman got out in the first innings, both KP & Flintoff should have converted to big hundreds. The first innings had nothing to do with luck, it was poor cricket from England then that has cost them.

Quoted message from Left arm unorthodoxLeft arm unorthodoxLeft arm unorthodoxLeft arm unorthodoxLeft arm unorthodox


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Message 11 - posted by Left arm unorthodox (U2080819) , Mar 13, 2006

Thanks, Virgs. I'm quite happy to admit when England have played badly or been outclassed, but though they did not bat as well as they should have in this match they bowled superbly without reward. The Pathan and Pietersen decisions were crucial and swung the match.

I disagree. England did not score enough in the first innings, but the bowlers were excellent and England deserved a lead. No luck and poor umpiring gave India a sniff and they took it, bowling well. An even match turned on its head. These things happen, but they shouldn't.

We were outplayed.


Well said - we got the rub of the green in Nagpur but yesterday was crucial. The decision to give Pathan not out was unbelievable and allowed India to get a lead!

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Message 12 - posted by courteousfairplay (U3348255) , Mar 13, 2006

England have nothing to feel aggrieved about. They were outplayed. Yes, some of the decisions went against them but in Nagpur the decisions went against India.That's the way it goes. The only thing players can do is to perform to the best of their ability and England did n't do that. We should stop moaning and plan on how to improve for Mumbai.
Congratulations to India on winning a match which looked like a dead draw at the end of the third day.

A great debut by Munaf Patel, who bowled sharply and got excellent reverse swing this morning, and more solid, top class batting by Dravid. I'm sure the match will be remembered, rightly, as the one in which Kumble got his 500th wicket. He bowled and batted superbly, proving once again how great he is.

England, however, can count themselves very unlucky. They had the rub of the green at Nagpur, but the pitch won the day. Here they had appalling luck and it cost them the game.

True, the batting in the first innings was not good enough and England eventually paid for it, but the umpiring yesterday was woeful and turned the match. It carried on today, though in a lost cause, as Taufel added to his errors.

Once again England's bowlers were excellent, apart from Plunkett, who showed his inexperience. With a bit more luck and better umpiring they would have wrapped up the Indian first inning much quicker and taken a few more scalps today.

Overall an interesting match, but one which England can rightly feel aggrieved at losing and which the Indian's will be delighted to win. Both sides can take some positives from the match and hopefully Mumbai will provide a fitting finale to the series.

Quoted message from Left arm unorthodoxLeft arm unorthodoxLeft arm unorthodoxLeft arm unorthodoxLeft arm unorthodox


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Message 13 - posted by mightywillow (U1727989) , Mar 13, 2006

I disagree. England did not score enough in the first innings, but the bowlers were excellent and England deserved a lead. No luck and poor umpiring gave India a sniff and they took it, bowling well. An even match turned on its head. These things happen, but they shouldn't.

We were outplayed.


Well said - we got the rub of the green in Nagpur but yesterday was crucial. The decision to give Pathan not out was unbelievable and allowed India to get a lead!

Quoted message from Sir_virgsandzamora




The Pathan decision was wrong, but hardly unbelievable, it was the tiniest of edges and even Harmison only made half hearted appeal after Jones had gone up.

So you can understand the umpire not giving it.

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Message 14 - posted by funkysi1979 (U2226977) , Mar 13, 2006

Like everyone including Willis said no bigs runs from the key men in the 1st innings. 2-0 India is my prediction. Jones out, Read in and Vaughan not to return until loads of runs scored in county cricket.

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Message 15 - posted by Left arm unorthodox (U2080819) , Mar 13, 2006

I disagree. This was a close match. England were not outplayed by India until the Pathan decision, which proved to be a massive turning point. I said it the moment it happened. England were on top at the time and Pathan's innings, the time it took, and the way it spurred the rest of the Indian team on, enabled them to get into a position of strength. England's response could have been better, but they were recovering when Pietersen was wrongly given out. Such a double blow is hard to reover from in a tight match on a pitch which is not offering a huge amount of help.

As I said in my opening post England's rub of the green at Nagpur was never going to help them to win as the pitch stayed so good.

England have nothing to feel aggrieved about. They were outplayed. Yes, some of the decisions went against them but in Nagpur the decisions went against India.That's the way it goes. The only thing players can do is to perform to the best of their ability and England did n't do that. We should stop moaning and plan on how to improve for Mumbai.

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Message 16 - posted by jsa - ¡¡¡\• (U1844352) , Mar 13, 2006

some didnt even get in...
We were outplayed.


outplayed and outclassed


The real class came from Kumble with the ball & Dravid with the bat. Hardly surprising considering their ability & records.

But all the England players got in during the 1st Inns and then got out. I think that made the big difference.

Quoted message from mightywillowmightywillowmightywillowmightywillow


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Message 17 - posted by Sweet_old_game (U3317650) , Mar 13, 2006

Stupendous display from the Indian, they pinned down Pommies hands down. They were apprehended by Jumbo (Kumble's pet name) but ultimately it was Munaf's deadly yorkers which took the last breath out of them. This match was just a promo, coz in Mumbai English team may be left hopping and jumping against the turners of our finger magicians, so may God give them enough stamina to hop well.
And it's droll when people make a lot of hue and cry about umpiring decisions, for me it betrays their sheer agony and tribulation. Hope they imbibe the reality sooner than tatter.
I disagree. England did not score enough in the first innings, but the bowlers were excellent and England deserved a lead. No luck and poor umpiring gave India a sniff and they took it, bowling well. An even match turned on its head. These things happen, but they shouldn't.

We were outplayed.

Quoted message from Left arm unorthodoxLeft arm unorthodoxLeft arm unorthodoxLeft arm unorthodoxLeft arm unorthodox


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Message 18 - posted by U1748867 (U1748867) , Mar 13, 2006

Well, how many runs do you think Pathan's innings was worth? And, remember, India still had about 2 hrs and 45 mins of batting left, scoring at over 4 per over, with 1 wicket down, so they would have probably still won.

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Message 19 - posted by U1748867 (U1748867) , Mar 13, 2006

I had worked out that, scoiring at 4 per over, they could have conceivably added another 160 at least, probably more with Dhoni, Pathan, Sachin, Harbajan to come, and 9 wickjets remaining, so they would have probably won anyway.

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Message 20 - posted by Sweet_old_game (U3317650) , Mar 13, 2006

Notice -- In my prior post, while replying to Virgsandzmora1, by mistake I conflated his post with mine. So my urge to the readers is, please don't get hoodwinked. Thanks.

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