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You are here > Scrum V message boards > Deleted > Points to note from todays game

Discussion:

Points to note from todays game

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Message 1 - posted by LockingHell (U3119463) , Feb 4, 2006

Four:
1. Dwayne Peel is class.
2. England were far too strong especially as the game went on.
3. So nice to see England throwing the ball around and making the breaks.
4. Cuetto skinning Shane Williams for the first try.

What else??
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Message 2 - posted by Evil-J-Horns (U1684729) , Feb 4, 2006

Banjo's got his arm back. The shaky restarts of the last couple of seasons are a thing of the past. Stevens emerges as an all-singing all dancing prop.

And less happily, Sheridan rather anonymous.

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Message 3 - posted by Steve and time is up, let the season begin (U2744539) , Feb 4, 2006

Tindal still not that good but getting better.

NOON=CLASS

CUETO=CLASS

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Message 4 - posted by BetterNewDays (U2815527) , Feb 4, 2006

1.Huge strength in depth in our front row.
2.Better defensive pattern that seemed to communicate better and play a more patient game.

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Message 5 - posted by WharfedaleTiger (U2724838) , Feb 4, 2006

Dillagio returning to form.

Great play and tackling by ellis

Ditto for Hodgeson.

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Message 6 - posted by LondonTiger (U1021669) , Feb 4, 2006

Tidndall showed what he is good at - and why most on this board do not want him in the team. His passing again was diabolical.

Sheridan did well in the scrums - his opposite number went off knackered.

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Message 7 - posted by frontrowrock (U1675580) , Feb 4, 2006

Four:
1. Dwayne Peel is class.
2. England were far too strong especially as the game went on.
3. So nice to see England throwing the ball around and making the breaks.
4. Cuetto skinning Shane Williams for the first try.

What else??

Quoted message from LockingHellLockingHellLockingHell




Actually he did'nt, he came in on a good angle but Williams caught and tackled him, bringing him done over the try line.

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Message 8 - posted by Polynikes (U1675726) , Feb 4, 2006

OK here's my thoughts...

In the first half England struggled...this is because Wales expended a lot of energy containing the England pack and bossing the general play.

This meant they tired by the 60 minute mark & the scoreline flattered England in the end...the Welsh were exhausted and had the game lasted another 10 minutes I think England would've kept on scoring.
Fitness counts - lesson#1 for Mike Ruddock.

For Wales:

Dwayne Peel is good but so was Ellis who was subbed because Robinson wanted Dawson's experience on the field in the closing minutes.
Not sure why Peel was subbed by Ruddock but England's superiority meant he was barely noticeable.

Of the rest of the Welsh team, Martyn Williams looked OK but Charvis was anonymous...the Welsh pack were second best all day.

Mark Jones looked very good as did Shane Williams who nearly scored what might have been a game changing try.

Gareth Thomas sadly looked a forlorn figure...I don't think he contributed anything except cathing Ben Cohen's embarrasingly inept "chip" kick.
Time for "Alfie" to hang up his boots I think and make way for a younger guy.

For England:

Didn't see much of Sheridan or Thompson or Grewcock (until the very end) in the loose...Thomspon messed up one lineout that led to a Wales score and got in the way of a rare 1st half back move.

I'd still keep Thompson for now but whereas he was the best available option by some distance prior to the RWC, now he's a marginal selection.

Sheridan will have better days and is still improving...Stevens justified his place - it's hard to see how Vickery would've impoved the team today.

Moody is still athletic but still not an openside...he left a gaping hole for Peel to dart through and set up Wales' try. We need an openside...Sanderson or Lund.
Lesson #1 for Robinson.

Corry looked OK but laboured...I feel he'll be dropped by the end of the campaign and I feel sorry for him.

Ellis is the man now at scrum half but Charlie missed a sitter again...that said he was generally good - his other gaffe was his sliced clearance kick under pressure.

Tindall and Cohen must be dropped. I know Tins scored but he was laboured to put it mildly and his poor handling (I might say apalling) cost two intercepts that thankfully came to nothing.
Sure he tackled but that's the bare minimum I expect.
Lesson#2 time for Tindall to go (but then that hardly needed learning).

Cohen was worse. His stupid lineout to himself led to a Wales score and although he (partly) redeemed himself by knocking back Shane Williams' clever kick ahead to save a try, he fouled up again with a "chip" kick that was emabbarasingly in its ineptness.
He was slow and dull compared to Shane Williams and whilst I wouldn't want little Shane clone in the England team...I don't want Cohen either.
Lesson#3 time to start with a sprinter like Varndell (or at least Voyce assuming Lewsey is fit for Italy).

Noon looked good & deserves his place.

If you've read down to this...thankyou for reading.

Cheers from Rich

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Message 9 - posted by LockingHell (U3119463) , Feb 4, 2006

Ok, Point taken. Still nice to see though

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Message 10 - posted by wannabebig (U2868286) , Feb 4, 2006

Martyn Williams try can't be blamed on Moody. He was doing what every openside does off the lineout and that is run flat out at the outside half (as an openside myself I know this) and the No8 should follow behind to close the gap. Unfortunately Corry was involved in the lift which is confusing because in that part of the field he most definately should be concentrating on defending. I'm sure they will learn from this mistake as they are a developing side, first game of the tournament etc.
Thought the backrow played pretty well altogether, they nulified the welsh backrow. Charvis seemed nonexistant, Owen was showed up again at international level and williams was quiet. Worseley however didn't look the part so I feel there is an opportunity for someone else to come in there.
I agree the defense was good and wales only looked dangerous on turnover ball which to be fair was limited by the strong english pack.

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Message 11 - posted by midnight26 (U2475243) , Feb 4, 2006

Ellis had a great game and his running was excellent to watch.

Worsley looked out of his depth so I would bring Lund in.

Cohen - pretty quiet game but did ok.

Tindall - Again quiet and I would change him for Abbot.

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Message 12 - posted by jif293 (U1717359) , Feb 4, 2006

at least england now have a basis to build upon and in the forwards look excellent.
Tindall exchanged for Abbott- Noon can cut it at top level but Tindall is still not a distributor.
Worsley exchanged for Lund/Sanderson when fit. Having said that Dayglo played well when he came on. Moody move to BS where he can become a world class player.
Cohen exchanged for Voyce. What does Cohen bring to the team? Voyce looked dynamic when he came on although it was at full-back

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Message 13 - posted by exileinwales (U1675630) , Feb 4, 2006

I don't understand what people expect of Sheridan.The guy is still learning his trade today he saw off an experienced much vaunted Welsh prop.Our scrum never faltered. He ran with the ball and such was his potential danger Wales committed 2/3 players to bring him down.He's not a three-quarter he's a prop give the boy a chance

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Message 14 - posted by matt_mardell (U2537969) , Feb 4, 2006

Just a point........Moody wasn't at fault one bit for the try. He was quite rightly doing his job of covering 10 and Charvis. Mid you I thought Stephen Jones didn't need watching today. He is mediochre...no invention whatsoever. good to see goode appear i thought his handling and passing was exceptional and opened up the tryline for a lot of opportunities. i cannot help but think we need a bit more pace on the wing in place of cohen. He is a great physical presence on the wing but i think Voyce shone today and is bright for the future along with Varndell. I like to see where we go against France. up the middle or out wide. Any opinions?

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Message 15 - posted by Blue Elli (U1677923) , Feb 4, 2006

OK here's my thoughts...

In the first half England struggled...this is because Wales expended a lot of energy containing the England pack and bossing the general play.

This meant they tired by the 60 minute mark & the scoreline flattered England in the end...the Welsh were exhausted and had the game lasted another 10 minutes I think England would've kept on scoring.
Fitness counts - lesson#1 for Mike Ruddock.

For Wales:

Dwayne Peel is good but so was Ellis who was subbed because Robinson wanted Dawson's experience on the field in the closing minutes.
Not sure why Peel was subbed by Ruddock but England's superiority meant he was barely noticeable.

Of the rest of the Welsh team, Martyn Williams looked OK but Charvis was anonymous...the Welsh pack were second best all day.

Mark Jones looked very good as did Shane Williams who nearly scored what might have been a game changing try.

Gareth Thomas sadly looked a forlorn figure...I don't think he contributed anything except cathing Ben Cohen's embarrasingly inept "chip" kick.
Time for "Alfie" to hang up his boots I think and make way for a younger guy.

For England:

Didn't see much of Sheridan or Thompson or Grewcock (until the very end) in the loose...Thomspon messed up one lineout that led to a Wales score and got in the way of a rare 1st half back move.

I'd still keep Thompson for now but whereas he was the best available option by some distance prior to the RWC, now he's a marginal selection.

Sheridan will have better days and is still improving...Stevens justified his place - it's hard to see how Vickery would've impoved the team today.

Moody is still athletic but still not an openside...he left a gaping hole for Peel to dart through and set up Wales' try. We need an openside...Sanderson or Lund.
Lesson #1 for Robinson.

Corry looked OK but laboured...I feel he'll be dropped by the end of the campaign and I feel sorry for him.

Ellis is the man now at scrum half but Charlie missed a sitter again...that said he was generally good - his other gaffe was his sliced clearance kick under pressure.

Tindall and Cohen must be dropped. I know Tins scored but he was laboured to put it mildly and his poor handling (I might say apalling) cost two intercepts that thankfully came to nothing.
Sure he tackled but that's the bare minimum I expect.
Lesson#2 time for Tindall to go (but then that hardly needed learning).

Cohen was worse. His stupid lineout to himself led to a Wales score and although he (partly) redeemed himself by knocking back Shane Williams' clever kick ahead to save a try, he fouled up again with a "chip" kick that was emabbarasingly in its ineptness.
He was slow and dull compared to Shane Williams and whilst I wouldn't want little Shane clone in the England team...I don't want Cohen either.
Lesson#3 time to start with a sprinter like Varndell (or at least Voyce assuming Lewsey is fit for Italy).

Noon looked good & deserves his place.

If you've read down to this...thankyou for reading.

Cheers from Rich

Quoted message from PolynikesPolynikes




Fair points but don't forget the Welsh have only just started to recover from the Lions tour - most of their stars have been out for months & they're really struggling with match fitness & form which is clear from the Welsh regions results in the Celtic league - not really Ruddock's fault to be fair?

Yes a big win for England but not that convincing when you consider the opposition's limitations & still the back play was nothing special

How can a tub of lard like Goode make the England 22 as well? Yeah he can kick but noway would he EVER last 80mins in a flowing game!!!

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Message 16 - posted by 16minuteseast (U2631630) , Feb 4, 2006

Felt that Stevens came of age today - plenty of good carries and seemed to be at the heart of much of the turnover ball too.

Good to see Ellis and Moody not doing anything stupid.

Was a bit worried when Lewsey went off but though Voyce looked completely at home and found plenty of action.

Dayglo looked pretty hungry too, and what a guy to have available for the last quarter - not who you want to see coming on when you're knackered. Same true for Julian White too - off goes Sheridan, on comes one of the game's best scrummagers.

Enjoyed seeing some swagger back in the side - it's been missing since RWC.

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Message 17 - posted by Polynikes (U1675726) , Feb 4, 2006

Martyn Williams try can't be blamed on Moody. He was doing what every openside does off the lineout and that is run flat out at the outside half (as an openside myself I know this) and the No8 should follow behind to close the gap. Unfortunately Corry was involved in the lift which is confusing because in that part of the field he most definately should be concentrating on defending. I'm sure they will learn from this mistake as they are a developing side, first game of the tournament etc.
Thought the backrow played pretty well altogether, they nulified the welsh backrow. Charvis seemed nonexistant, Owen was showed up again at international level and williams was quiet. Worseley however didn't look the part so I feel there is an opportunity for someone else to come in there.
I agree the defense was good and wales only looked dangerous on turnover ball which to be fair was limited by the strong english pack.

Quoted message from wannabebig




Take your point about the openside striking out for the outside half but collaring the scrum half is also his job...don't spint away from the ball!

Worsley took every Welsh kick off immaculately - I can't think of any mistakes he made yet can't think of anything brilliant he did either.
Perhaps as Sanderson isn't fit for next week...someone like Lund could come in and Moody shift to blindside or even play Dallaglio there from the start or even (wild pick) go for Andy Beattie or Ben Skirving?

Michael Owen isn't up to test rugby level - he's like James Forrester - talented but too weak. He should be playing basketball or cricket.

Charvis wasn't in the mood today and it showed...I certainly wouldn't want in him in my team if I were Ruddock.
He obviously didn't feel today's match was a cause important enough for him to make a total effort.

Martyn Williams looked good in patches but that was more because there was no natural England openside to challenge him.


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Message 18 - posted by LockingHell (U3119463) , Feb 4, 2006

Totally agree with your point re Varndell. Hope AR gives him his chance soon. Perhaps against Italy, although (straying from the point) They did present Ireland with a few problems today.
Just a point........Moody wasn't at fault one bit for the try. He was quite rightly doing his job of covering 10 and Charvis. Mid you I thought Stephen Jones didn't need watching today. He is mediochre...no invention whatsoever. good to see goode appear i thought his handling and passing was exceptional and opened up the tryline for a lot of opportunities. i cannot help but think we need a bit more pace on the wing in place of cohen. He is a great physical presence on the wing but i think Voyce shone today and is bright for the future along with Varndell. I like to see where we go against France. up the middle or out wide. Any opinions?

Quoted message from matt_mardell


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Message 19 - posted by 16minuteseast (U2631630) , Feb 4, 2006

How can a tub of lard like Goode make the England 22 as well? Yeah he can kick but noway would he EVER last 80mins in a flowing game!!!

Quoted message from Blue Elli




When he trotted on I thought we'd brought on another hooker!

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Message 20 - posted by ChileExpat (U1700485) , Feb 4, 2006

Ellis had a great game and his running was excellent to watch.

Worsley looked out of his depth so I would bring Lund in.

Cohen - pretty quiet game but did ok.

Tindall - Again quiet and I would change him for Abbot.

Quoted message from midnight26




Disagree about Ellis - thought his passing and decision making were poor. But he's young so needs a good run. Would get Perry on to the bench - he's probably the best 9 Eng have but let's not rush it too much.

Cohen is always ok these days - not the blockbusting winger of 2/3 years ago. Would start Voyce, with Varndell on the bench.

Agree about Worsley and Tindall.

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