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BAN TTHE BURQA?

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Messages: 1 - 50 of 3620
  • Message 1. 

    Posted by Ustaad (U4770953) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009


    Yes its that old chestnut once again... sorry folks but I am compelled to express my disgust at France and the French President's stance of criticizing the wearing of the Burqa by Muslim women in France.

    This is by no means a new debate - Far from it but what is particularly disturbing is the endorsement of this viewpoint from the highest office in the land of France!

    It is not just Islam that advocates the wearing of the veil. Other religious texts also speak of veiling.

    “When Rebekah raised her eyes, she caught sight of Isaac and she swung herself down from off the camel. Then she said to the servant, “who is that walking in the field to meet us?” and the servant said, “it is my master”. And she proceeded to take a head cloth and to cover herself” (Genesis 24-64-65)

    The Bible then treats the wearing of the veil as an inherently righteous undertaking.

    Perhaps the French President should look more closely at the pictures of the Virgin Mary in the Louvre and note that she is depicted in works of art with her head covered!!!!

    France needs to engage in dialogue with its Muslim communities and banning the burqa is not the way to do this.

    What say you, folks?

    Report message1

  • Message 2

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by The Doctor (U13737004) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    Yes its that old chestnut once again... sorry folks but I am compelled to express my disgust at France and the French President's stance of criticizing the wearing of the Burqa by Muslim women in France.
    --------------

    We are you not disgusted that Saudi Arabia FORCES women to wear the Burqa?


    Report message2

  • Message 3

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by The Marvellous Mechanical Mouth Organ (U3327060) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    If the veil is advocated in the Quran, why do the vast majority of Muslim women not wear it?

    Report message3

  • Message 4

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by CastingStones (U11051802) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    The people of Europe have fought for rights of equality. We are not there yet - but the Burqa goes against all that women have fought for -

    So from public place, from schools and hospitals, it has no place.

    It is not even a religious requirement. But a cultural symbol of oppression.

    Report message4

  • Message 5

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by jono1959 (U12612855) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    I wouldn't ban anything

    If you want to walk round with a neon sign on your head saying all hail to the jaberwockee its absolutely up to you

    BUT ..

    we need to remember 2 things

    1) face covering is not a requirement of Isalm
    2) If you do wear neon signs, Burkas or crash helmets and thus by choice partially exclude yourself from the rest of us; don't expect us to make allowances for you - I.e. you can't work or move effectively and safely in a large number of environments and will be excluded from them.

    Hiding your face is stupidity in the extreme

    Report message5

  • Message 6

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by Madame De Pompadour (U1749776) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    To the vast majority of women the burka is the most vile, horrible garment ever designed by man.

    France is a secular country, more so than Britain so there is no point is pointing a paintings of Mary in a headscarf as justification as to why it should not be banned.

    Report message6

  • Message 7

    , in reply to message 6.

    Posted by Join Together (U5344821) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    Hello Madame De Pompadour
    Ref 6

    Just curious, do you think it should be banned as in any lady wearing it outside her home.
    I do not think it should be banned allthough there are places it might not be appropriate to wear it and should therefore not be allowed.

    I think we are back to openness in education and the freedom for each person to have there say with regards opinions to dress, male and female of course.

    Cheers and keep up your good work on here with regards to ladies equality.

    Mick.

    Report message7

  • Message 8

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Drepf (U1812902) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    The OP seems confused as to the difference between covering the head (hijab), the apartheid full veil (niqab) and the vile prison tent that is the burqa.
    I have no wish to interact with anyone hiding their identity and facial expressions behind either of the latter and neither does anyone I know.

    Report message8

  • Message 9

    , in reply to message 8.

    Posted by Madame De Pompadour (U1749776) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    Hello Mick I hope you are well.

    I do not think the Burka should be banned as I recognise that the banning of one thing can lead to the banning of others. Much in the same way that I intensely dislike that there are lapdancing clubs. On the other hand I recognise that for these to be banned could lead to other things being banned. i.e courting couples being banned from dancing together in nightclubs etc. I may not like the ladies who choose this line of work but it is their choice much in the same way as the burka. Both are on the fringes of mainstream society.

    Report message9

  • Message 10

    , in reply to message 7.

    Posted by JP (U10590564) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    Masking the face has anti social undertones in western culture. Masking the face in public has no place in western culture.

    The people who wear it have no respect for the culture of the land in which they live.

    Report message10

  • Message 11

    , in reply to message 8.

    Posted by Stazbumpa (U4044370) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    I have no wish to interact with anyone hiding their identity and facial expressions behind either of the latter and neither does anyone I know. 

    ^ This.

    I do not think banning the burqa/niqab is going to achieve anything, however the modern thinking elements of society should be allowed the right to completely ignore anyone wearing it.
    The wearer must take responsibility for wearing such an outwardly divisive garment.

    Report message11

  • Message 12

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by juswonderin (U1905495) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    m1

    ustaad

    the very fact that a European head of state, backed by his Algerian born MUSLIM WOMAN cabinet minister, has called for the banning of the burkha, because it represents the oppression of women, speaks volumes for itself.

    Moreover, it is an attire that is disliked, and possibly also hated, across much of the Muslim world, which is why countries like Turkey have banned it, and why countries like Morocco and Tunisia actively discourage its use.

    So please don't feel disturbed by what the French are saying, many Muslims support his POV.

    Report message12

  • Message 13

    , in reply to message 9.

    Posted by Join Together (U5344821) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    Hi Madame De Pompadour
    Ref 9

    <quote>

    Thanks for answer and as I thought it would be .I'm fine and thanks for asking.

    To think I keep going to these lap dance places so I can see your "face" and your not there. I can't understand why I go to them, at my age I can't remember why and what to look atsmiley - biggrin smiley - smiley smiley - winkeye

    All the bestsmiley - peacedove
    Mick.

    Report message13

  • Message 14

    , in reply to message 13.

    Posted by Madame De Pompadour (U1749776) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    Mick smiley - laugh

    To quote my namesake

    'Intelligence has no gender.'

    Report message14

  • Message 15

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Andrew (U7234690) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    “When Rebekah raised her eyes, she caught sight of Isaac and she swung herself down from off the camel. Then she said to the servant, “who is that walking in the field to meet us?” and the servant said, “it is my master”. And she proceeded to take a head cloth and to cover herself” (Genesis 24-64-65)

    The Bible then treats the wearing of the veil as an inherently righteous undertaking.

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    It does not. The above from your message refers to an event and does not instruct on covering the head.

    Mary's veil covered her hair and not her face.

    Regards

    Report message15

  • Message 16

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by shazeer (U6562866) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    The people of Europe have fought for rights of equality. We are not there yet - but the Burqa goes against all that women have fought for -

    So from public place, from schools and hospitals, it has no place.

    It is not even a religious requirement. But a cultural symbol of oppression.





    you can state your personal opinion but dont try and act as though you know the requirements of muslims

    i think youll find that there are women around the world who do wear the burqa or veil becouse they want to
    women in this country are a perfect example

    it has seemed to me that the number of women wanting to cover their head has increased as i see more and more women over here covering their head
    alhumdulillah
    may allah bless all the muslim women who cover their head with dignity and pride

    Report message16

  • Message 17

    , in reply to message 16.

    Posted by martg44 (U14046142) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    ""it has seemed to me that the number of women wanting to cover their head has increased as i see more and more women over here covering their head
    alhumdulillah
    may allah bless all the muslim women who cover their head with dignity and pride""

    As long as it is purely consensual, then I have no problem with that (I'm not too keen on the veil though).

    One thing I can't quite get my head round is that during a walk round town (stoke-on-trent) today I saw half a dozen or more ladies (aged 20ish to 30ish) in traditional 'hijab' dress of various style (none were veiled) with their (I assume) husbands, who were dressed in a totally western way e.g. jeans, shirt/TeeShirt. Are their husbands being 'less' devout by dressing in this way?

    Martg.

    Report message17

  • Message 18

    , in reply to message 17.

    Posted by LairigGhru (U14051689) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    shazeer,

    So, knowing how we feel about the issue, is it the case that those same Muslim women are careless about our feelings and just want to slap all of us - millions of us - in the face?

    Report message18

  • Message 19

    , in reply to message 16.

    Posted by Join Together (U5344821) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    Hello Shazeer
    Ref 16

    may allah bless all the muslim women who cover their head with dignity and pride 

    How do you know if this blessing takes place and if it does was is a blessing and how does it help the person. Or are you just saying that in your opinion they are doing the correct thing and keep it up.

    I just see the words as something somebody thought God told them to say to "good" people, back to what did God rearly say and what does he do when "blessing".

    Cheerssmiley - peacedove
    Mick.

    Report message19

  • Message 20

    , in reply to message 1.

    All this user's posts have been removed. Why?

  • Message 21

    , in reply to message 17.

    Posted by U14101126 (U14101126) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    "Are their husbands being 'less' devout by dressing in this way?"

    If that is true they should be ashamed of it, they should be more sympathetic when it comes to supporting their women with respect to their dress, it totally gives the wrong impression, it is unfair to expect the women to dress like that and the men to dress, in the opposite way, have they become emasculated? or are those women are more tougher than the men, in the way that they dont feel inferior about their identity when they go out, even if it means they have to tolerate the insults and dark stares of others they are not afraid what others will think, they are not doing it for others and whether view them to be 'devout' or not.

    Report message21

  • Message 22

    , in reply to message 16.

    Posted by Tooting Popular Front (U2615522) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    shazeer,

    You're right about more headscarves been worn by women in the UK.

    In the area where I live there has been a really noticible increase in this over the last few years. Principally because our area has had a large influx of Nepalese and the practice of wearing headscarves appears to be common especially when women reach a certain age.

    TPF

    Report message22

  • Message 23

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Join Together (U5344821) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    Hello Ustaad
    ref 1

    I wonder if a bald lady needs to cover her head or maybe just her neck and facesmiley - smiley

    Cheers
    Mick.

    Report message23

  • Message 24

    , in reply to message 16.

    Posted by mawskrat (U4974655) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    girly men in burqas try to blow up oil facility.

    online.wsj.com/artic...

    Report message24

  • Message 25

    , in reply to message 21.

    Posted by martg44 (U14046142) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    ""If that is true they should be ashamed of it""

    Jamil, while I obviously can't confirm if the men and women who were together were married, everything else was as stated. Although we had the 'Tour of Britain' cycle race here today, every thing else was as normal (some roads closed - hope I can get homesmiley - laugh).

    Martg.

    Report message25

  • Message 26

    , in reply to message 18.

    Posted by shazeer (U6562866) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    So, knowing how we feel about the issue, is it the case that those same Muslim women are careless about our feelings and just want to slap all of us - millions of us - in the face?


    why is this a slap in the face
    how does this affect you
    these women wear the headscarf to puify themselves and so that they are noticed why are you offended by this
    you must be very insecure person

    Report message26

  • Message 27

    , in reply to message 26.

    Posted by Drepf (U1812902) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    <quote>these women wear the headscarf to puify themselves and so that they are noticed why are you offended by this
    you must be very insecure person?<quote>

    You appear to be being deliberately obtuse.
    For most British people I know,
    headscarf= no problem
    face veil = offensive
    Is that simple enough for you?

    Report message27

  • Message 28

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by rockjacksor (U14137980) on Wednesday, 16th September 2009

    who cares its an article of clothing. If people told me what to wear i would be p***ed. Let those women wear whatever they like. Its not my place to interfere and its not up to some lesbian feminists to assume every women walking the planet is supressed. People can fight there own battles. Lord knows Ive had too lol.

    Report message28

  • Message 29

    , in reply to message 28.

    Posted by LairigGhru (U14051689) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    <>

    Remember that what this thread is talking about is the burqa, which is a very extreme sight to impose on the British people in their country. My remarks were not aimed at the hijab, although I admit that the sight of them annoys me incessantly. My opposition to the burqa and niqab is completely reasonable and your attempt to employ a psychology phrase in an attempt to abuse me is silly, inappropriate and unjustified. It probably just shows your desperation and lack of persuasive argument.

    Report message29

  • Message 30

    , in reply to message 28.

    Posted by friendlykamustaka (U12870744) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    "Let those women wear........."

    Women?

    online.wsj.com/artic...

    How long before the wearing of Islamic headress is criminalised?

    Report message30

  • Message 31

    , in reply to message 26.

    Posted by juswonderin (U1905495) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    you must be very insecure person 

    shazeer

    the insecure person is the man who needs to cover his wives head to foot in a burkha/niqab, possibly even in a hijab. He's obviously utterly insecure about how his wife might react to an admiring glance.

    Report message31

  • Message 32

    , in reply to message 28.

    Posted by Devon_Rex (U8846278) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    its not up to some lesbian feminists to assume every women walking the planet is supressed.  

    Are you for real? smiley - doh

    Report message32

  • Message 33

    , in reply to message 32.

    Posted by CastingStones (U11051802) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    Why wear a Burka?

    Report message33

  • Message 34

    , in reply to message 33.

    Posted by Join Together (U5344821) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    Hello CastingStones
    Ref 33

    Why wear a Burka? 

    To go to heaven and watch the men with the virgins.smiley - smiley


    Cheers
    Mick

    Report message34

  • Message 35

    , in reply to message 31.

    Posted by shazeer (U6562866) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    juswonderin

    men wanting to protect their women from the evil
    adulteres
    peadophiles
    rapists
    something that this society knows allot about

    Report message35

  • Message 36

    , in reply to message 35.

    This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the House Rules in some way.

  • Message 37

    , in reply to message 35.

    Posted by martg44 (U14046142) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    Re Msg 35

    ""men wanting to protect their women from the evil
    adulteres
    peadophiles
    rapists
    something that this society knows allot about""

    How's their clothing going to do that?

    Martg.

    Report message37

  • Message 38

    , in reply to message 35.

    Posted by Join Together (U5344821) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    Hello Shazeer
    Ref 35

    If Muslim men can control themselves by what they see in this country don't you think women can as well.

    Cheerssmiley - peacedove
    Mien.

    Report message38

  • Message 39

    , in reply to message 37.

    Posted by U14101126 (U14101126) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    By not dressing loosley, she is giving the message through her actions that her body and beauty is not for benefit of the strangers out there by their hands, lips or eyes. Those that are dressing loosley or suggestively and putting their bodies on display are giving message, that they are available and an indirect permission to seek delight and cheap gratification by allowing them unrestricted access to gaze at their bodies.

    Report message39

  • Message 40

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by AFChashi (U13145982) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    Once again a thread for a munch of non-Muslim men to discuss Muslim womens wardrobes. Why are you guys so obsessed with what these women wear?

    Report message40

  • Message 41

    , in reply to message 35.

    Posted by tipsytopsy (U2348087) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    re 35

    men wanting to protect their women from the evil  

    Note the words "their women" – the use of the collective possessive when referring to human beings. It tells you everything you need to know about Islam's attitude to women.

    Women do not belong to men. They are not "their" women. They belong to themselves. And what they wear should be their own choice and no one else's. Time those among Muslim men who are prescriptive in this regard learned to mind their own business and stopped interfering.

    If Muslim women actively (and not passively) choose to go round disguised as tents it may be inexplicable to non-Muslims and it is certainly rude to and intolerant of our culture, which is one in which the face is open to scrutiny, but it is their choice and we can choose to tolerate their rudeness. But how women dress should never be the business of men, any more than how men dress should be the business of women.


    Report message41

  • Message 42

    , in reply to message 40.

    Posted by martg44 (U14046142) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    ""Once again a thread for a munch of non-Muslim men to discuss Muslim womens wardrobes. Why are you guys so obsessed with what these women wear?""

    My original query was why the muslim men that I saw weren't wearing loose clothing (not that I'm obsessed with what these men wear smiley - laugh )

    From whats been said above, aren't women just as likely to get adulterous thoughts when they see a man in jeans etc?

    Martg

    Report message42

  • Message 43

    , in reply to message 42.

    Posted by jono1959 (U12612855) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    Hey Mart ... good point !

    I'm not sure what the regs are for Muslim men I'm sure a minimum of short sleaves - i.e. no powerful bare shoulders on view and I think trousers below the knee ? perhaps someone can clarify ?

    but my wife will happily turn her head to see powerful male thighs or buttocks in tight jeans - she is pretty good at it ( I hardly ever catch her ) and laughs at how bad I am at doing the male equivalent (she always catches me )

    smiley - laugh

    Report message43

  • Message 44

    , in reply to message 42.

    Posted by AFChashi (U13145982) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    You guys are definitely obsessed. After terrorism, this is the second most posted topic on this forum. I think I need to warn my mum, sisters, aunts etc.., that there is a group of non-Muslim men who have an unhealthy obsession with their clothes. It's very disturbing smiley - smiley

    Report message44

  • Message 45

    , in reply to message 44.

    Posted by tipsytopsy (U2348087) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    Re 44

    I don't think it is an obsession with their clothes - more an irritation and bafflement at the irrational double standard that Islam applies to women.

    Report message45

  • Message 46

    , in reply to message 45.

    Posted by The Doctor (U13737004) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    I think I need to warn my mum, sisters, aunts etc.., that there is a group of non-Muslim men who have an unhealthy obsession with their clothes. It's very disturbing
    ----

    Not as disturbing as seeing your sisters sub-human if they leave Islam.

    Report message46

  • Message 47

    , in reply to message 46.

    Posted by AFChashi (U13145982) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    WHY would my sisters leave Islam?

    They are not weak, like a certain doctor smiley - smiley

    Report message47

  • Message 48

    , in reply to message 47.

    Posted by The Doctor (U13737004) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    WHY would my sisters leave Islam?
    -----

    Because She started Thinking for Herself?


    --------
    They are not weak, like a certain doctor
    --------

    Why not tell them they would be sub-human if they leave Islam or marry a non-muslim.

    I am sure they will tell you how Beautiful is Islam. Such Beauty Such Beauty!


    Report message48

  • Message 49

    , in reply to message 48.

    This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the House Rules in some way.

  • Message 50

    , in reply to message 41.

    Posted by shazeer (U6562866) on Thursday, 17th September 2009

    Note the words "their women" – the use of the collective possessive when referring to human beings. It tells you everything you need to know about Islam's attitude to women.

    thier women as in thier wives their sisters and their doughters

    now i see
    i have to explain such a verse to you
    how can you understand the holy quran?
    you all being such an intelligent bunch

    Report message50

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