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hey suzeemoon, i looked at your link. it's proper, got a good tone! wish you lots of fun and good luck with it!

tbh, was a bit hesitant, had some reservations/anxieties about your link, in case i might see your bum? which is ridiculous really i know!! especially in retrospect! the silly things that hold one back in life eh!? lol. ;@.

Kamy,
You are absolutely right and I agree with separation between feminist politics and submissive fantasies, but I am a product of my time. I do believe in internalised oppression and stuff like “Lilith’s Manifesto” in "Sisterhood is Powerful" and such messages had an effect. This was before Nancy Friday's stuff on fantasy. In an autobiographical piece I wrote about the experience:

I tried ‘regulating’ my unorthodoxy having read some earnest articles on the subject in the days of ‘Spare Rib.’ I seem to remember something on the lines of non-feminist fantasies being damaging and something the fantasisers should defeat/outgrow. I tried, honestly I did.

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I realise that I must sound very 'out' and bordering on the exhibitionistic, but one of the most difficult things I have ever done is come out to my two best friends, despite the fact they have to be two of the most open minded people in the world. I'm a bit over-enthusiastic about discussing the issue because I really want to see fetishes and BDSM become less of an issue to others. I honestly feel I have been liberated by my journey and want to spread the word. I don't want to be one of those embarrassing people who bang on about their sex life, but I do want to make things more open. Hope that makes sense.

Hope that makes sense.

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It does!

Possibly the change in attitudes over time shows how much sexual politics has come on – now that the male/female partnership in relationships or marriage is assumed to be equal, it's ok to play at being subserviant or submissive, then go back to equality in real life. When women were assumed to have lower social status than men, it was something we needed to struggle against more actively?

Possibly I'm talking out of my **se, but it's an idea.

Max Mosely very nearly lost his job over this piece of innocent fun - I certainly would not like THe News of the World to film me having sex.

I am sure he is absolutely right that there is no public interest in this, that it is an invasion of his privacy and that he has suffered damage to his reputation and personally because of the newspaper's faux indignation. So, he should be able to claim damages - like anyone else.

To be honest, I'm sure he will not find this kind of sex so thrilling now everyone knows about it - half the fun is the secrecy.

If you could give a good spanking (non-sexual variety) to anyone, who would that be?

For starters I can think of 600+ in Westminster. I suppose the problem is that some of them would enjoy it!

now that the male/female partnership in relationships or marriage is assumed to be equal, it's ok to play at being subserviant or submissive .... When women were assumed to have lower social status than men, it was something we needed to struggle against more actively?

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Kamy
I can understand why you say that, but it's more straightforward to say the earlier attitudes (as well as their present day manifestation) were wrong, repressive and sexually abusive.

Like so many attitudes towards sex, they try to make natural impulses, images and fantasies that a person experiences seem bad or dirty. They try to make people feel they "shouldn't" be as they actually are, and they interfere with comfortable sexaul development. Your "struggle against" either means the female internal struggle against guilt (for having those impulses or fantasies); or more usually, the "struggle against " meant the strident attempt to impose control, disapproval and guilt on men and women who enjoy images and fantasies which the "right thinkers" disapprove of.

just 2 mins to reply to your first question Suzee - I'm off to get blind material made up and have to rush out, so havent even read the rest of your post - will do so on return!!!!

Answer to your query is grammatical - "they" is meant to refer to "the attitudes".

thanks for such interesting thoughts and suspense, talk_it_over. Looking forward to tomorrow and stuff on 'them'when we recover from being pumpkins!

Hit Me Baby One More Time..

Had to giggle over the Mosley prostitute confessions “He liked to hear me talk in a German accent” very ‘ello elloesque

Funny old thing Pain. The Giving of it. The Receiving of It. And then there’s its close cousin, Constriction, and that chirpy flirty niece, Humiliation..
None of them present themselves as immediately obvious contenders for sexual expression and lasting satisfaction.
Yet millions upon millions of consenting adults regularly bring up the blood using everything from a tickling feather and fluffy cuffs to spiked paddles, hammers, nails, racks, pinions, razors, canes, harsh detergents, pieces of automobile, animal parts and various other bric-a-brac.

S&M, and it’s slightly more refined cousin, Flagellation, (Le Vice Anglais) really do span a plethora of fun and frolic to be enjoyed with lusty abandon, the odd cheeky welt from a cane wielded with fly-fish aplomb; though some practices seemingly allow you to drive straight past the simple and slightly retarded orgasm stage straight to the doors of the A&E department.

If you thought a man’s genitals are his own private kingdom, think again.
The role of fear in S&M is certainly a large part of the frisson.
Fear is not that hard an emotion to raise in one who is already bound to a bed with their legs slung up under their arms with a gimp mask on. Add the waxing waning drone of a highly charged humming of an outsized vibrator held to their ear heard through the spicy, musty leather darkness of a sightless mask and its all starting to build nicely.
Include a mouth bit that stretches the jaw while constricting the nose while a little light paddling and now we’re talking.

The kaleidoscopic spectrum of the S&M dressing up box takes you from louche leather Victorian constrictions and mediaeval nuts and bolts to the gothic majesty of the Adams family on Viagra and the vampiric crimson silk-lined priapism of the horror flick.
Mix a little bit of everything in together and its Christmas and Halloween all at once.
So plenty of room for manoeuvre then, unless immobility is part of the look..

Now though the S&M world presents itself as a fetish wrapped in leathern exotica with the merest hint of fragrant ambergris & rose petal suffering, you sense that, scratch at the surface a little and you’ll find there’s a smack of the dry sherry and Demis Roussos about a lot of the people involved: suburban couples, lonely senior post office regional managers and national reps for homecare manufacturers seeking to add some desperate mystery and exotic glamour to their dowdy cul de sac sexualities. Don’t be put off. And if you’re a senior post office regional manager, power to your whip.

Though there is something a little Abigail’s Party New Build about a lot of the S&M balls, blind attendance might inadvertently lead you into the blood letting and uric chaffing of the heavier leather and bondage nights where the idea of being harried, violated and humiliated is their equivalent to a nice evening in with a Mexican supper.
So please check the small print.

And though dressing up can be a lot of harmless fun you need to be certain that the man looking at you in your bosom-popping corsetierre and hot musk rubber labia-loving knickers knows that you are a visual feast, a tableau of erotica and spice, to be enjoyed as such, and not someone who wants seven bells knocked out of them with a dildo and a spade the second you’ve slipped beyond heavy petting.
So apart from the great outfits, fetish news letters, a rich spread of variations and playful deviations at the lighter end of, S&M has to be approached with a healthy respect and undertaken with people that you trust.

BUPA do not have special dispensation for people who got the wrong side of their partners anger management issues while dressed as Cruella DeVille.
Once you are incapacitated and unable to talk through the balled stockings shoved in your mouth, and with the blood leaving your upper thighs, you need to know they’ll respect you in the morning...

that was a suitably cracking post miss cheivors!

> harried, violated and humiliated is their equivalent to a nice evening in with a Mexican supper.
So please check the small print. <

lol - tis true too! fierce in b'ham send fantastic photoraphy/graphics for thier partys - tho i've never been myself. there's a woman who works from round the corner who goes ... but frankly i'm scared of her!! just imagine a room full of her - so axphixiation/repression is summed up - just in my reaction to her! eeeek. i can of course, cope with st sebastian, mild/remote by comparison? ;@.