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Just reading through this debate, and it does seem to be getting a bit on the silly side. All this 'poor little victims' stuff does look especially daft in the context of 22-29 year old women actually earning slightly more than their male counterparts:

www.timesonline.co.u...

What does it matter? There's more to life than money. However, it does reinforce the idea that this feminist habit of crying wolf is not only deceitful, but is also getting a bit embarrassing - even for some women.

Hello again. I have been reading this for a while now, struggling to find any reference to the question posted, ie, that of a womens minister.
There are a lot of facts about African women, gender issues, quite a bit of senseless sexist abuse, mostly from some of the female commenters - with the caveat that I am assuming they are female due to thier obvious disdain of men.
As a man, I find it disconcerning that some farely radical women have this viewpoint and are prone to mouthing it off to all and sundry, even when completely off topic and with no bearing what so ever, just a chance to "have another go" at men.
I assumed this was a radio 4 message board and therefore frequented by the more erudite and eloquent listeners, who could debate a point.
I was obviously wrong, this would appear to be the place where those ranting individuals that fail phone vetting, come to vent thier spleens.

Thankfully, there are some more enlightened women here, aka, not poppywotnot.

Out of curiosity since such a large part was made of childbirth in Africa, what percentage of the African, female population comes to the UK to live and work and, more importantly vote?
In the interest of clarity, to follow up previous postings.
Out of them, how many of them give birth in the UK how long do they stay in the Uk after, and what percentage of thier life is spent in childbirth, and what percentage of thier time in the UK is spent in childbirth.

Can we then have a comparable Percentage break down of the time spent, by a native women of the UK in childbirth, at work and on Maternity leave, stay at home childrearing?

And at what point did the Art of SERIOUS child rearing get belittled by some of the women posters here? Why is a career so much more important than child rearing.....to a woman or indeed a couple, that really wants to rear children.
As a single, employed female who takes time out, a woman stands to loose a lot more money if rearing children prior to a career, than after being qualified in whatever field she selects.
However, as a part of a family unit, then things are shared and she has all the benefits of the child rearing and all the wonders of motherhood that she has bayed about. Why should she then want to leave it, dump the child in some baby farm where it is brought up by strangers and wash her hands of the whole affair outside 9-5?

If there was to be a womens minister, how about one that was to tackle the issues of single parenthood, personal responsiblity for women, for life choices, encouraging family units (which are proven in some studies, alas not quoted here, by myself so therefore purely anecdotal in context) to improve quality of life or stability in young children?
And how about readdressing the unfair legal system with regards to divorce settlements with regards men, all the topics of which I posted earlier, how about if she was to promote the profession of marriage, made it more difficult for people to marry, even more difficult to divorce, oh yes, and did away with abortion for circumstances where it simply proved "inconvenient" for the woman? and I am speaking from quite a lot of personal experience here, which may be different from your experiences, so these points are open to discussion, but not to bashing. If you cant discuss then dont post as I am pretty sure that my comment on, denying, after all, what amounts to murder will raise hackles.
but there you have it. there are many people in jail who can justify thier crimes in the heat of the moment, but not after years of sitting alone, in a cell. As the old adege goes, if you cant do the time, dont do the crime.

So, yes, a minister for women! If she promotes the values that women used to have along with the new opportunities they now have, enforce personal responsibility, ban abortion, encourage birth control, there is NO excuse for unplanned pregnancy nowadays, even plane crashes are plannef for yet women seem unable to plan for the most obvious thing in the world, and like both, what goes up, must come down.
She could also enforce equality! As the women posters here who are annoyed by the fact that their slightly larger population percentage is seen as a minority and that they therefore, dont need special care have so eloquently put it, women are currently quite capable of looking after themselves in this modern society and in fact have more ENFORCED opportunities than men.
I grew up in a working class Welsh background and am finally in university at 40. I am alongside 20 something girls who are funded under whichever scheme was currently picking up the tabs , in order to encourage women in engineering.
she is the only one. That is because they simply dont like it. It is like dustmen, as I posted earlier. That is one less place for a suitable man who may have worked hard to get to uni. Not meant in the sense that he SHOULD have that place, but because it was NOT an option for him - that place , for a man is not available. those funds,for a man , are not available. She is not blind, not deaf, not mentally challenged, not gifted, her only disability or so it would seem is to be female.

Now, is being a female a disability? with all your quotes of percentages, childbirth, deaths, biases, glass ceilings, some women here make it out to be. Then other, more level headed women dont. They are the sensible ones, the ones that have a balanced valuable viewpoint and potentially something positive to lend to the female image and that of society as a whole

So I would dearly like to see just ONE, not two womens ministers, one of those level headed women, not some pandering wimp to the radical screaming feminist types, get the position of Womens minister. Personally speaking I would then like to see her enforce all the things I have mentioned above, and reintroducing all the values of the former generations like those of our grandmothers, when marriage lasted, whilst at the same time having a MANS minister who could go about dealing with all the mens issues of higher suicide rates, health issues, loss of roll in a modern society, dealing with delinquent young men with no role models and such like.

And then, hopefully as in Canada, the futility of having seperate sex ministers, in charge of a nation which is apparently unable to look after even its most basic human needs as a sex based individuals will be seen and both ministerial positions will be abandoned and then possibly just a single harmony or equality position may be maintained, if deemed neccesary.

As posted by another, we are indiviuals first, we also have a sex.
Or to some of you, am I just a man, who is also an individual you dont like.....because of my sex?

We are doing noonw any favours here, especially the (dwindling) generations to come. Men like myself are refusing to commit, to take part in this biased social experiment. We are starting to sit back and watch. I cannot take part in the mating game until society rights itself. I am not alone.
I am not a woman hater, nor do I have many other issues I will probably be accused of, but I really feel that, for the benfit of the uk society, then some of my points above may prove beneficial.

And for those people here full of mathematics about African nations, may I humbly suggest you spend your knowledge and expertise over there in that region, put your vote in thier boxes, contribute to thier societies, make a positive impact there - failing that, simply stay on topic here and miss an opportunity at possibly bettering the lives of others......Or I could just go on about computers, porn, and model railways, since they all seem to be equally off topic. Oh wait, you also covered some of those too. How multi taksing you truely are!

You're right of course gingerjon.

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Why, thank you.

Now if only this MB had autosigs, I'd have mine right there!

You're most welcome... can I have your autograph?

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Why not.

Here you are:

"gingerjon"

Hope you like it.

susie_sue:

"Symi, you show little or no understanding of the complexities of some women's lives."

Many people have complex lives, it's not exclusive to women and from my observation many women make their lives unnecessarily complex, I mean why would any person work a full day and also take on all the child care responsibilities, unless they were a masochist or too obliging for their own good.

re 64

I was obviously wrong, this would appear to be the place where those ranting individuals that fail phone vetting, come to vent thier spleens.

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Of which excellent example see post 64.

pipop,
Yes I am for real.
The discussion was about whether we should have a Minister for Women. I see you failed to address any of my points, only, again, going on about abortion, except this time, dropping the African link.
What other matters would a minister for women preside over>?

Is that your sole arguement, again, sex, babies, abortions. Is that all you consider important? Is that really the limited world view you have of your own sex and the roll of a women to look over the changing societies we move in?

If it was left to yourself to be minister for women, then no, we wouldnt need one, since you would be less than useless.

What about all the other issues I raised>?

never mind thinking outside the box, it would
be really useful to this debate if you could begin to start thinking outside the womb. Women are far more than just that, and society needs far more than women that can only see or think that way.

So, minister for women, what could she do? Since I seem to be the only one has suggested such tasks for her in a constructive way.

And passing the time, thank you for also addressing my points in an equally useless, shaming style of retort - your reply to me was useless with regards this debate and didnt serve to further the discussion one iota, still some people seem to need such comments to make themselves feel better - just themeselves. It serves no purpose to better the state of others or to further understaning or propose solutions to problems. It is no rant, it is a collection of proposals, points and viewpoints which you are free to dissect, discard, ignore, improve, ponder on , whatever takes your fancy. So far as I can discern from your reply you failed to do any of these options.

So, a minister for women, do we need one, what could she do?
Any further suggestions for me?

Preferably Clean ones

bye Schpengle

And passing the time, thank you for also addressing my points in an equally useless, shaming style of retort - your reply to me was useless with regards this debate and didnt serve to further the discussion one iota, still some people seem to need such comments to make themselves feel better - just themeselves.

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You sure do talk purdy ...

post 77passingthetime I can understand your outrage. I too was furious about the incorrect and rather stupid and certainly ignorant statement made by schpengle at post 74. Unbelievable ignorance at a time when all of us surely have very clear and easily accessible information about contraception.

please can you tell us more about the Canadian experience with a "Woman's minister"

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www.canada.com/topic...