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You are here > Radio 3 message boards > CD Review > Joyce Hatto praised on CD Review

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Joyce Hatto praised on CD Review

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Message 1 - posted by keybawd (U7300112) , Feb 20, 2007

Having heard Joyce Hatto praised to the skies in CD review, I am now in a state of shock to learn that some of her recordings might be the work of others.

Messageboards on the Internet are speculating that even her career before she "gave up public performance" might be 'exagerated'. Surely the BBC has some archive material? Did she or didn't she perform all the Beethoven-Liszt symphonies on the radio in the fifites?

Has anyone actually heard this pianist live?

On reflection, even her illness is strange. It is said that 30 years ago she was so ill that a critic suggested it was wrong for a person who looked so terrible to perform in public. Indeed , she must have been very ill (Who was this critic and in what newspaper?). Yet Joyce Hatto apparently fought this cancer for thirty years taking only aspirin for pain. Having watched dear ones dying of the disease, Joyce Hatto's survival is as remarkable as recording all the Chopin-Godowsky Studies at 70 yrs old.

Is there any fact about Joyce Hatto's life and performing career that can be verified?
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Message 2 - posted by Bruckner (U3568720) , Feb 22, 2007

My retained programme tells me I saw JH at RFH on Sun 22 May, 1960 at 3pm. It was a Mozart concert by The Haydn Orch conducted by its founder Harry Newstone (who died in June 2006). She played Mozart K488. Programme details of her career to that date correspond with what is currently published. I'm still hunting for further programmes.
Bruckner

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Message 3 - posted by Halfagrip (U3027662) , Feb 22, 2007

In haste, nothing really to add, other than I think Jessica Duchene may have a more up to speed article about this in 'The Independent' next Monday or Tuesday.

I understand that as part of her research JD has spoken to Hatto's consultant at Addenbrooks Hospital about Hatto's illness.

Ab.

H

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Message 4 - posted by keybawd (U7300112) , Feb 22, 2007

I have just heard an interview with Ms Hatto which was given on New Zealand Radio a few years ago (available on Internet). Has anyone else heard it?

The answer to the CD mystery is now revealed. Joyce Hatto and Joyce Grenfell were one and the same person. Think about it. Isn't it extraordinary that no one ever saw them together or at the same time?

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Message 5 - posted by ahinton (U7548191) , Feb 23, 2007

I haven't heard it, but it's generally reckoned to be as much of a fake as the CDs themselves are increasingly being discovered to be. Who knows? - even the correspondence, such as there exists of it, between WB-C/JH and others may also turn out to be fake and, afte all, if it were all genuine yet the CDs were all fake, the deception would surely have risked being uncovered earlier by those in correspondence with the apparent perpetrators.

Joyce Grenfell? ("William; don't do that"). Eileen Joyce, too, no doubt. Not to mention James Joyce, who must somehow have been an inspiration for the sheer riverrun of CDs.

In the old and well-worn catchphrase, you pays your money (for the CDs) and you takes your Joyce - only to find eventually that there's no Joyce there at all; now that's what I'd call Hobson's Joyce - or at least I would do had Ian Hobson's Chopin/Godowsky Studies been ripped on the "Hatto" set, which so far seems not to be the case (the purloined pianists on these CDs being Grante and Hamelin who, unlike Hobson, each recorded the entire cycle).

Best,

Alistair

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Message 6 - posted by Soundwave (U3102408) , Feb 23, 2007

Morning Keybawd. Joyce Grenfell died in 1979.

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Message 7 - posted by PJ (U7517565) , Feb 23, 2007

Alistair, the two Murray Khouri interviews, one with Hatto, the other done this week after the story broke and available on Radio NZ Listen Again, are worth listening to.

Hatto's voice, if it is she, sounds very much like an elderly lady, and reminds me of a late aunt of mine to the extent that to my ears the accent has a tiniest trace of South African in it.

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Message 8 - posted by tom_960 (U2897331) , Feb 23, 2007

Much the most illuminating article I've seen recently on this fascinating topic is here:
www.musicweb-interna...

The "Royston Crow" claimed yesterday that WB-C has promised to talk to them next week....winkeye

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Message 9 - posted by waldvogel (U5063889) , Feb 23, 2007

and the usual apocalyptic bombast from Lebrecht on the same site.

I wonder what CDR will have to says for themselves tomorrow.

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Message 10 - posted by keybawd (U7300112) , Feb 23, 2007

Joyce Grenfell may have died in 1997, but can we be sure that Joyce Hatto was still alive in 1997?

The whole affair gets more and more weird. I presume everyone has read
www.musicweb-interna...

Interestingly in Hatto's letters to Christopher Howell, she mentions playing to and discussing music with mostly women pianists, surely she played to male pianists too? She also mentions Youra Guller as having played Stravinsky's Petrushka - having known Youra (she climbed out of my college at Oxford, having been in my rooms after hours, at an advanced age, 75?) I never heard her or any of her friends mention that she'd done Petrushka. Doesn't sound like her kind of piece.

Furthermore in Ates Orga's biog Joyce mentions that she first went to Poland, already a performing pianist, as part of a comittee and spoke no Polish, and yet she studied with Zbigniew Drzewiecki. Was this before or after?

No, I really think it is Joyce Grenfell speaking, with Mrs Mills at the piano and the late Donald Wolfitt as Barington Coup.

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Message 11 - posted by JRFynn (U7597036) , Feb 24, 2007


Joyce Hatto certainly did exist. She was my piano teacher for about 2 years in the 1950s when I was 10-11 years old.
I was afraid of her. She made me cry. I felt bullied.
As the result of an incident where she accused me of saying something to her which I deny to this day, my parents removed me from the school & I subsequently won a music scholarship to another establishment, followed thereafter at the RCM.
I have an LP recording of hers dated 1959 of Rachmaninov’s Piano Concerto no. 2 in C minor op.18 & Preludes 2 & 6 on the Saga record label, ref XID 5045, with the Hamburg Pro Musica, conductor George Hurst. I find the playing unexciting & was therefore surprised when so much fuss was made of her CD legacy a year or so ago. I never heard her perform live in public.

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