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Changes to the Points of View board

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Messages: 151 - 200 of 685
  • Message 151

    , in reply to message 150.

    Posted by cricket-Angel Tucker (U3382697) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    And if you read my first blog post way back in November I think you will see I approached this with an open mind: 

    A few things certainly did strike me about that first blog, Nick.

    1) You were welcomed with open arms by all POVers.

    2) You already preferred blogs over messageboards.

    3) Pretty much all of us POVers stated upfront and very clearly why we prefer messageboards to blogs.

    Get well soon, Rowan smiley - hug

    Report message1

  • Message 152

    , in reply to message 151.

    Posted by Nick Reynolds (U11648404) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    "and the difference in traffic between the BBc and Radio baords Nick? Did you not want to answer that bit of the question?"

    I answered that question here:

    www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...

  • Message 153

    , in reply to message 151.

    Posted by hollybeau (U13700692) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    I am mortified they are shutting the green room,it is the only bit of conversation some people get all day.You cannot have a conversation on the blogs.Why does it have to go,it hurts no one and is a lifeline to some.smiley - sadface smiley - sadface smiley - sadface

    Report message3

  • Message 154

    , in reply to message 143.

    Posted by Gavin Corder (U732634) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    Radio are looking into various ways of improving online feedback and conversation, so closing this board isn't the end of the story. 

    This would appear to be the problem Nick.

    Until you consult with your colleagues in Radio about what provision they have now or will be providing and when, you ought not to close this Radio message board, if for no better reason than that they in Radio presumably have no idea that their only provision for Radio MB is being closed unilaterally by you!

    This is clearly a management issue, there must be someone a tier above you who has the authority to take an overview of listener / viewer provision for feedback.

    Who can we speak to who does have the authority to make a proper decision?

    Report message4

  • Message 155

    , in reply to message 154.

    Posted by cricket-Angel Tucker (U3382697) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    I am mortified they are shutting the green room 

    Have they said they're shutting the Green Room? Why? It was set up by Rowan, after all, and is far and away the most popular thread!

    Report message5

  • Message 156

    , in reply to message 145.

    Posted by Binkie (U9634110) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    Nick Reynolds wrote Victoria's Derbyshires blog is not responsibility.... 

    Err.......

    I didn't ask you that.Was the question to difficult for you ?

    I asked why you don't apply the same lame excuses to closing boards as to poor contributed to blogs and save the BBC time and licence fee payers money ?

    Report message6

  • Message 157

    , in reply to message 154.

    Posted by Quizzimodo (U551071) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    Radio are looking into various ways of improving online feedback and conversation, so closing this board isn't the end of the story 

    Yeah right.
    And if anyone believes what Nick has said would like to buy some magic beans...

    Report message7

  • Message 158

    , in reply to message 157.

    Posted by Binkie (U9634110) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    He must have a desk full of them.

    Report message8

  • Message 159

    , in reply to message 143.

    Posted by RedRedRobin (U838052) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    "As Jem says Radio are looking into various ways of improving online feedback and conversation, so closing this board isn't the end of the story."

    So basically we are left waiting to see if someone else will clean up your mess?

    Report message9

  • Message 160

    , in reply to message 159.

    Posted by Nick Reynolds (U11648404) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    My colleagues in Radio have been consulted. See Jem's message here:

    www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...

  • Message 161

    , in reply to message 157.

    Posted by GillB (U1190049) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    For news and sport issues including 5 Live coverage there is news editors and sport editors blog.
    5 Live's Breakfast Show and Victoria Derbyshire mid morning show also have blogs devoted to their programmes where users can leave comments about 5 Live. 

    That doesn't answer the question. Blogs are *not* the same as message boards and you are not allowed to discuss the station's output in general on the news or sport boards.

    I think, if you read through this whole thread, virtually everyone is saying the same thing. We want a board where we can discuss BBC radio output in general. Most listeners don't listen exclusively to one BBC station; most of the stations don't have a general area to discuss their output. Ergo there is a need for a board where we can do this. Something like ... well, the POV Radio Board comes to mind. By all means rename it if you don't want it connected to the TV programme ... but don't close an active, useful board.

    Hosting doesn't seem a particularly necessary item, occasional visits by BBC people would be nice but not essential and moderating isn't rocket-science. I've been doing it for about 10 years at some very busy PC games fansites.

    Please, just for once, could the BBC listen to what its paying customers are saying?

    Report message11

  • Message 162

    , in reply to message 155.

    Posted by SometimesInvisiblePoster (U9636067) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    cricket-Angel Monroe
    Have they said they're shutting the Green Room? Why? It was set up by Rowan, after all, and is far and away the most popular thread!
     

    They haven't Cricket, but reading between the lines what chance does any off topic thread have?
    rowan host specifically mentioned "TV related questions" in the OP. Yes she started the thread, and it is popular, but a new full time mod linked to POV may not want to keep anything off topic.
    I really hope they don't close it smiley - sadface
    Quote from rowan host OP
    we felt that you deserved a better level of attention more directly from the programme itself, which will allow for more of your TV related questions to be answered, more of your comments to be fed back to the right people in the BBC and a closer relationship to be formed between activity here and the POV programme itself.
     

    Report message12

  • Message 163

    , in reply to message 160.

    Posted by Gavin Corder (U732634) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    We've seen that message Nick and have pointed out the holes in it. Is there someone above you who has the authority to take an interdepartmental view?

    In the interim I have just searched for and found a BBC blogs home (well I didn't know there was one of those! Ever thought of putting a link to it somewhere?)

    I see a piece called 'Ten Publishing Principles for BBC Online' by Seetha Kumar. Would she be the one to be able to take an overview?

    She says:

    I want to inspire editorial and technical teams to think not just about their project in isolation but how it will really work for the audience, how it will relate to or build upon the best of what already exists on BBC Online 
    www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...

    So you see our dilemma, we don't think that is being done, so perhaps we should invite Ms Kumar to pull this mess back together.

    Report message13

  • Message 164

    , in reply to message 162.

    Posted by Nick Reynolds (U11648404) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    I'm afraid all BBC boards have to be hosted.

  • Message 165

    , in reply to message 120.

    Posted by Linda1111 (U1103093) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    I am upset. I go away expecting a response to a question and find it has been completely ignored! For the hosts convenience I reproduce below:

    Good morning. As usual I'm late and have nearly missed the party.

    NickReynolds let me make this easy for you.

    The headline for the POV boards states "Share your thoughts on any aspect of the BBC"

    Contact Us tells us that "You can also comment on BBC TV and Radio programmes or the BBC in general on the POV message board."

    Now the only BBC station that I listen to a regular basis is Five Live. There are 2 editorially led blogs available on Five available to make comments: Breakfast and Victoria Derbyshire.

    Clearly some manager somewhere has now decided to change editorial policy and close the POB Radio board. This effectively means that the only place that the BBC offers for comment on Radio Five Live are the aforementioned blogs. However what if I want to comment about Simon Mayo's programme or Up All Night or Richard Bacon? What does the BBC now offer to me to comment upon such programmes or on BBC Radio output in general?

    It is clear to me that the BBC is removing a vital form of communication from the licence payer without consultation merely an autocratic decision from on high. POV will no longer offer the facility to share your thoughts on any aspect of the BBC and Contact Us are losing a link in the chain of communication.

    So Nick would you please answer my very simple question.

    As to everyone else I suggest you make a formal complaint regarding the withdrawal of this service. I shall be as soon as I return from my days activities. Here is the link:

    www.bbc.co.uk/compla... 


    Do look forward to receiving an answer and please don't point me towards the news and sports blogs for Five....not relevant for general discussion.

    Thank you

    Report message15

  • Message 166

    , in reply to message 161.

    Posted by Spinning_head (U10049943) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    Ultimately this is all about cost-cutting. It's unavoidable. Being responsible for an online discussion 'community' means allocating people to monitor it. The Beeb is under pressure to reduce costs - so some things suffer.

    I'm a 'message boarder'. I like the fact that I can raise an issue and anyone can answer. Blogs, on the other hand, usually have only one theme. The Beeb's blogs aren't that user-friendly, to be honest.

    I hope suitable alternative boards can be found before the doomed boards here are closed.

    Ho hum...

    smiley - sadface

    Report message16

  • Message 167

    , in reply to message 162.

    Posted by deansay (U5811575) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    cricket-Angel Monroe
    Have they said they're shutting the Green Room? Why? It was set up by Rowan, after all, and is far and away the most popular thread! 


    They haven't Cricket, but reading between the lines what chance does any off topic thread have?
    rowan host specifically mentioned "TV related questions" in the OP. Yes she started the thread, and it is popular, but a new full time mod linked to POV may not want to keep anything off topic.

     


    I agree, I believe the Green Room was just a temporary sweetner for us before the big chop arrived.

    Report message17

  • Message 168

    , in reply to message 166.

    Posted by SometimesInvisiblePoster (U9636067) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    Nick Reynolds
    What is it that you don't understand?
    The license fee, which we the public pay, finances all of this and you are just not listening to your audience/financial backers.
    We don't want blogs we want the boards as they are, and if they aren't broken why fix them?
    We know we need a host and the POV person only needs to check out the TV board. Leave the others as they are. Simple. smiley - doh

    Report message18

  • Message 169

    , in reply to message 167.

    Posted by Gavin Corder (U732634) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    Where is this Green Room?

    Report message19

  • Message 170

    , in reply to message 168.

    Posted by Binkie (U9634110) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    Nick just doesn't get the message.

    He's probably more than reluctant to undo the disaster and mindset of blogs he has now put in place.

    All seems a sad ploy to just divert criticism away from BBC radio.

    Report message20

  • Message 171

    , in reply to message 168.

    Posted by Nick Reynolds (U11648404) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    RozKing - well Roz I am listening - as I am posting on this board.

    I hope we can agree that the most important thing about any message board is good hosting.
    Rowan made this point in the meeting which I blogged in January:

    www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...

    We are changing the boards to try and achieve that by getting the hosting closer to the relevant programme (which is Points of View).

    I can understand that people are upset by the closure of the radio board. But it doesn't make sense to have the POV programme hosting a radio board, and Jem has outlined in his post above many good reasons why it should be closed. And its not as I say the end of the story.

    The boards were not working well. Several of them were low traffic and hardly visited. I outlined in this blog posts some of the problems with the boards.

    www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...

  • Message 172

    , in reply to message 169.

    Posted by SometimesInvisiblePoster (U9636067) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    Gavin Corder

    Where is this Green Room?
     



    Top of the board as I type, Gavin, but will be further down by the time my 3 minutes are up smiley - grr
    It's a thread started by rowanhost for off topic stuff, but beware. There is a serious discussion in there just now smiley - devil
    Are they getting rid of that wait? I suspect not.

    Report message22

  • Message 173

    , in reply to message 170.

    Posted by Curmy (U10228939) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    The Green Room's on the TV thread Gavin .


    www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...

    In the 3 hours since I've posted here I havn't seen Nick say one thing which justifies what the BBC are doing.

    It's completely unacceptable to close down the radio board and say vaguely " We might do something about a new one in the future " smiley - yikes

    Report message23

  • Message 174

    , in reply to message 171.

    Posted by AnthonyJ (U203374) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    I can understand that people are upset by the closure of the radio board. But it doesn't make sense to have the POV programme hosting a radio board 
    Nick can I ask a question to clarify a point being discussed on the radio board? The BBC board is remaining open but I believe that discussions about BBC Radio will be considered off topic on it. Is this the case as others are equally convinced that they won't be and will be allowed.

    Report message24

  • Message 175

    , in reply to message 171.

    Posted by Gavin Corder (U732634) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    We are changing the boards to try and achieve that by getting the hosting closer to the relevant programme (which is Points of View). 

    Why?

    Report message25

  • Message 176

    , in reply to message 173.

    Posted by cricket-Angel Tucker (U3382697) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    I hope we can agree that the most important thing about any message board is good hosting.  

    Depends what you mean.

    I think a Host should care about the community and the board itself, as well as be interested in the subjects raised.

    Report message26

  • Message 177

    , in reply to message 173.

    Posted by Curmy (U10228939) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    I can understand that people are upset by the closure of the radio board. But it doesn't make sense to have the POV programme hosting a radio board, and Jem has outlined in his post above many good reasons why it should be closed. And its not as I say the end of the story. 

    Upset Nick is an understatemet, I'm LIVID ,I've contacted the radio columnists of all the national newspapers about this.

    To say "It's not the end of the story " Is just pathetic, and I don't believe you anyway, you'll just disappear when the Radio Board is shut and be uncontactable.

    Report message27

  • Message 178

    , in reply to message 173.

    Posted by Gavin Corder (U732634) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    Ah Green Room is a thread in TV...! I don't look in TV.

    Surely as a thread it safe as it's board is the one that is staying.

    Report message28

  • Message 179

    , in reply to message 171.

    Posted by SometimesInvisiblePoster (U9636067) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    NickReynolds

    RozKing - well Roz I am listening - as I am posting on this board.

     


    Thank you for taking the time to reply Nick.
    However doing links to blogs in response to posts saying we don't like or do blogs illustrates perfectly how you are NOT listening.
    There were 2 in your reply to me.
    Sorry but it's true.
    Maybe I should go back to being the Invisible Poster, I feel like it just now. smiley - laugh
    O O O O O (invisible smileys>

    Report message29

  • Message 180

    , in reply to message 174.

    Posted by Binkie (U9634110) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    What do you mean Nick it doesn't make sense to have a radio board on the POV site ?

    The Radio board has been there for years.

    Are saying now that the people who put this in place before you were all wrong ?

    A bit arrogant to imply that don't you think ? I don't think they would be very happy reading that.

    Report message30

  • Message 181

    , in reply to message 179.

    Posted by Helen May (U1633128) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    I'll join you Roz, it's only a chosen few who get replied to.

    As far as Jem's announcement about thinking about a 'Radio only' board, well I just hope the thinking doesn't take as long as it has to decide that most of the POV boards are to be closed. From Nick's first post I think we already knew what the answer would be. As far as I can see it's been such a waste of time and our licence fee money.

    H

    Report message31

  • Message 182

    , in reply to message 181.

    Posted by cricket-Angel Tucker (U3382697) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    Surely it would have been sensible to set up a new Radio Board BEFORE getting rid of the current one?

    Even 606 did this before getting rid of the superior TMS Boards!

    Report message32

  • Message 183

    , in reply to message 182.

    Posted by Helen May (U1633128) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    There is a spare slot on the Radio 2 board that they sometimes use.

    H

    Report message33

  • Message 184

    , in reply to message 180.

    Posted by Nick Reynolds (U11648404) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    "The BBC board is remaining open but I believe that discussions about BBC Radio will be considered off topic on it."

    That will partly be a judgement for the new host. POV the programme sometimes covers radio stories if they raise big BBC issues (e.g. Brand/Ross). I think the BBC board could do that but as I say that's a judgement for the host.

  • Message 185

    , in reply to message 184.

    Posted by AnthonyJ (U203374) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    That will partly be a judgement for the new host. POV the programme sometimes covers radio stories if they raise big BBC issues (e.g. Brand/Ross). I think the BBC board could do that but as I say that's a judgement for the host. 
    Thanks Nick.

    Report message35

  • Message 186

    , in reply to message 171.

    Posted by niclaramartin (U1621265) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    It seems ironic to me that BBC (which was founded on RADIO and Television) now propose NOT to have a General RADIO board. But hey, Nick and Jem can continue to point us in the direction of BLOGS (where BBC staff can initiate and control discussion).

    I have always found, and posted about the fact that the boards were ever called Points of View is a magician's slight of hand. Points of View is a flipant whimsical programme lasting 15 minutes A WEEK, for only a few weeks a year, AND YET BBC think the right name for their "Contact and Comment" boards are Points of View smiley - doh. Of course that then gives them the opportunity (simply because of the name connection) to disassociate RADIO and Television (their CORE products). Why not change the name of the boards to "Radio and Television Feedback/Comments/Thoughts/Opinions.......", but, NO, better to call the boards after a fifteen minute television programme, and CLOSE the Radio board as a result smiley - erm Most of these comments are NOT aimed at you Nick, but at BBC's continued whittling away of the boards. However, the "Points of View" name connection defense IS lame.

    If listeners to Radio 5 are telling you there will be NOWHERE to comment/feedback, then why will you not accept that that IS the situation. General RADIO board should never have been closed UNTIL the myriad of Radio boards INCLUDED this omission

    Another problem with THIS exercise has been set in stone from the beginning, namely that Nick is Editor of Internet BLOGS, and has stated a love of blogging. It has also, over time, become apparant that Nick knew/knows very little about message boarding. He has NEVER used the QUOTE facility (although it would make it so much easier to understand WHO he is replying to smiley - doh), and at one point, he even admitted that he didn't know there was ANOTHER Host on one of the boards he was hosting (ALL TWO of them).

    (Message 1222 onwards)

    www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...

    So, BBC put a blogger with no, or very little knowledge of Message Boards "in Charge" of "improving" the POV Messageboards (says it all really). Not your fault Nick - whoever thought this was fair to you and to us.

    Another problem would appear to be that the BBC Messageboards are all broken up into smaller areas of responsibility, and, it would appear from this "exercise" that they don't talk to each other (at least not often). So, there is no joined-up policy/decision making with regard to BBC Messageboards. It comes down to money and drive/enthusiasim of the individuals tasked with the job of "improving" BBC Messageboards, and if you give that job to a professed Blogger, you get the scenario we have now, and which we have been saying would happen from day 1.

    Blogs are fine if you want to discuss a precise subject/topic, but for "general" discussion blogs are beaten hands down by Messageboards, which are the domain of the general public, and where topics THEY wish to discuss ARE discussed.

    BBC appear to want to whittle down and whittle down their messageboards, (where's the linkage/publicity about how to find them), whilst at the same time encouraging blogging (which they control), Twitter/flickr etc.

    Sorry, to say, our predictions have come to fruition EXACTLY as we said all those months ago.

    No need for "dialogue" Nick. You have simply fulfilled your remit, and lived up to our expectations of what would happen during this "exercise".

    niclaramartin
    (battle-scarred from defending too many now defunct BBC messageboards)

    Report message36

  • Message 187

    , in reply to message 171.

    Posted by OfficerDibble (U1158251) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    RozKing - well Roz I am listening - as I am posting on this board.

    I hope we can agree that the most important thing about any message board is good hosting.
    Rowan made this point in the meeting which I blogged in January:

    www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...

    We are changing the boards to try and achieve that by getting the hosting closer to the relevant programme (which is Points of View).

    I can understand that people are upset by the closure of the radio board. But it doesn't make sense to have the POV programme hosting a radio board, and Jem has outlined in his post above many good reasons why it should be closed. And its not as I say the end of the story.

    The boards were not working well. Several of them were low traffic and hardly visited. I outlined in this blog posts some of the problems with the boards. 


    You may be listening, but you are clearly not answering. You are totally unconvincing. and once again avoid the questions. The question is : Is there a demand for a radio board? Please answer that? The reason you are closing it is that you don't wish to pay to host it. All of your excuses can be shot down with plenty of contradictions in other areas.

    Report message37

  • Message 188

    , in reply to message 185.

    Posted by Gavin Corder (U732634) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    So that's a no then.

    Message posted by AnthonyJ

    That will partly be a judgement for the new host. POV the programme sometimes covers radio stories if they raise big BBC issues (e.g. Brand/Ross). I think the BBC board could do that but as I say that's a judgement for the host.

    Quoted from this message


    Thanks Nick. 

    Report message38

  • Message 189

    , in reply to message 186.

    Posted by Binkie (U9634110) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    The BBC ' we're right...you're wrong ' attitude triumphs yet again.

    Well done Nick I am sure your future employment is well assured.

    Report message39

  • Message 190

    , in reply to message 189.

    Posted by OfficerDibble (U1158251) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    The BBC ' we're right...you're wrong ' attitude triumphs yet again.

    Well done Nick I am sure your future employment is well assured. 


    ...as long as it continues only within the BBC.

    Report message40

  • Message 191

    , in reply to message 190.

    Posted by Curmy (U10228939) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    If listeners to Radio 5 are telling you there will be NOWHERE to comment/feedback, then why will you not accept that that IS the situation. General RADIO board should never have been closed UNTIL the myriad of Radio boards INCLUDED this omission  

    EXACTLY Niclara, and the rest of your post is spot on as well .

    I also agree with the points all the other posters have made as well smiley - ok

    Report message41

  • Message 192

    , in reply to message 191.

    Posted by Binkie (U9634110) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    What worries me is that we have a promoter of blogs in the form of Nick Reynolds who is unaware that Victoria Derbyshires blog is very sparsely used by contributors.

    Report message42

  • Message 193

    , in reply to message 192.

    Posted by U6679583 (U6679583) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    I think the BBC, with a WRITTEN commitment to interactivity and fostering online communities, would be well advised to have a space where any aspect of BBC radio can be discussed. As from Friday, it doesn't

    As the the "non-hosted" argument for this boards removal - that really is silly. Appoint a host!

    Report message43

  • Message 194

    , in reply to message 193.

    Posted by Nick Reynolds (U11648404) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    Where should the host come from?

  • Message 195

    , in reply to message 194.

    Posted by cricket-Angel Tucker (U3382697) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    In the past we've had Hosts who have been volunteers alongside their BBC job. That worked really well.

    Alternatively, there must be SOMEBODY in BBC Radio who would be interested.

    Or niclaramartin smiley - biggrin smiley - ok

    Report message45

  • Message 196

    , in reply to message 195.

    Posted by U6679583 (U6679583) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    Nick - when I've worked for large organisations, they've had an HR department that will hire staff for you.

    Report message46

  • Message 197

    , in reply to message 180.

    This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the House Rules in some way.

  • Message 198

    , in reply to message 194.

    Posted by RedRedRobin (U838052) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    "Where should the host come from?"

    Where should we post about radio 5?

    Report message48

  • Message 199

    , in reply to message 196.

    Posted by Nick Reynolds (U11648404) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    I can't justify a host from my team because they work for Future Media, not radio.

    The new host will work for television, not radio.

    Having a board called "Points of View" associated with a television programme but with a radio section makes no sense as the television programme doesn't cover radio.

    And we can't leave the board unhosted.

    Just hiring someone in won't bring you the result you want - better engagement with BBC people. In order for the boards to work better you need more engagement with BBC people, which is what we are trying to do.

  • Message 200

    , in reply to message 198.

    Posted by The Great Gildersleeve (U1650602) on Tuesday, 31st March 2009

    At least a radio board pulls everyone to one place but if you already have hosts for all the specific boards like Radio 2, 3, 4 and 5 etc...why not open a board for talking about each station on...the messageboard for each station which already has a host and boards there already...Radio 2 has four boards but none about the station.

    Report message50

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