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BBC Complaints - are they difficult, stupid or just both?

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Messages: 51 - 70 of 70
  • Message 51

    , in reply to message 50.

    Posted by Stephen Jones - in our hearts we are Greenlanders (U1175342) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    I didn't say they should have total rights, but they should have more than zero.

    Report message1

  • Message 52

    , in reply to message 51.

    Posted by santapup (U14659366) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    Why?-if you buy a book-does that then give you the right to copy and distribute it?

    -all you get with your licence fee as has been patiently explained is the right to watch broadcast television-nothing more -morally or otherwise

    You- dont own the BBC-in the same way as you dont own a bus when you buy a ticket.

    I fail to see -or it seems does anybody else--what you are on about.

    Report message2

  • Message 53

    , in reply to message 52.

    Posted by Stephen Jones - in our hearts we are Greenlanders (U1175342) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    But if I bought the author his word processor, pens, paper, printer, food, drink, building to work in it would be a different aspect.

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  • Message 54

    , in reply to message 53.

    Posted by Lee (U1149673) ** on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    But if I bought the author his word processor, pens, paper, printer, food, drink, building to work in it would be a different aspect.  Let's put that to the test then. In his earlier posts the OP referred to two instances where he tried to use material taken from BBC programmes. They were Juliette Binoche appearing on The Andrew Marr Show and KT Tunstall appearing on Never Mind the Buzzcocks. For the sake of argument, let's also add my earlier example, Adele singing the new James Bond theme on The Graham Norton Show.

    As a licence payer, you presumably feel you paid for the performers' (singers/musicians) and the song writers/lyricists' word processors, pens, paper, printers, food, drink and buildings to work in. Does that now mean you can use their material as you see fit?

  • Message 55

    , in reply to message 54.

    This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the House Rules in some way.

  • Message 56

    , in reply to message 53.

    Posted by Valdimar the Unending (U15551013) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    Why? It would entirely depend on the arrangement made betwen the author and the program's makers. If, for example, you paid the author £10 for first dibs on reading the story, then you would have absolutely no rights other than first read. You do not then have the right to the work. The monetary value of what you provided is not a lot. You certainly did not build the building especially for the individual concerned. Copyright is with the author, not the supplier of any support infrastructure; that is provided, not in lieu of payment for the work, or as part-payment for all rights to the work, but to facilitate the production of the work. Yes, a television company can expect something - as part of any contract - but not absolute control of the work - unless it is what was originally agreed.

    In any case, the BBC do not just have to deal with author's rights, they have to deal with the rights of everybody involved in the making of teh program. Payment would depend on the contract agreed.

    Report message6

  • Message 57

    , in reply to message 56.

    Posted by Fedster (U14967576) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    ahh just spotted this under 1 of the epsiodes of t cops;

    Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for -fair use- for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.

    So if you have this disclaimer up, you can basically do what you want?

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  • Message 58

    , in reply to message 55.

    Posted by Valdimar the Unending (U15551013) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    So, why not report it to the BBC? They do not have the equipment or manpower to search every YouTube Channel/video. I am sure that the legal team would be grateful for you to point it out for you.

    Report message8

  • Message 59

    , in reply to message 58.

    Posted by Fedster (U14967576) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    Those epsiodes have been on youtube for years, i am sure someone from the BBC must have spotted them.

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  • Message 60

    , in reply to message 57.

    Posted by Valdimar the Unending (U15551013) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    No. You are being disingenuous. What makes you think thatr they even knew that the videos were there?
    So if you have this disclaimer up, you can basically do what you want? 
    The disclaimer is meaningless.

    and

    You are sure? I am sure that the BBC have had many videos taken down, but there is nothing to tell you that they MUST have seen these. That is pure speculation.

    Report message10

  • Message 61

    , in reply to message 60.

    Posted by Fedster (U14967576) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    Its pure speculation but a quick youtube search reveals full episodes of Eastenders,Spooks, Motorway Cops, The Apprentice i am sure there are many more shows avaliable, surely seeing as the above shows are really popular, the BBC must be aware that they are avaliable on youtube, if they are not aware, then they have not been looking hard enough.

    Report message11

  • Message 62

    , in reply to message 61.

    Posted by Lee (U1149673) ** on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    This may not answer all the questions but this BBC News article from 2007 is interesting:

    news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/...

    "YouTube makes it easy for members not only to watch and share video clips, but also to upload their own content. However, the site is riddled with pirated film and music clips uploaded by members who do not own the copyright. Some media firms, most prominently Viacom, have recently demanded that YouTube removes tens of thousands of clips from the site that they own the copyright for.

    Mr Highfield (then the BBC's director of Future Media and Technology) said the BBC would not be hunting down all BBC-copyrighted clips already uploaded by YouTube members - although it would reserve the right for example to swap poor quality clips with the real thing, or to have content removed that infringed other people's copyright, like sport, or that had been edited or altered in a way that would damage the BBC's brand.

    "We don't want to be overzealous, a lot of the material on YouTube is good promotional content for us," he said.

    However, the BBC, like other broadcasters, is working with video sharing sites like YouTube to improve the way in which copyrighted material is identified and taken down."



    One bit that's really interesting suggests that the BBC would concentrate on having content removed that infringed other people's copyright. In other words, removing clips from BBC programmes that contained music or other content that did not originate from the BBC would be their priority.

  • Message 63

    , in reply to message 57.

    Posted by dayraven (U13717520) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    So if you have this disclaimer up, you can basically do what you want? 

    Here's the full text of section 107 (which, just for clarity, is US law). Factors 1, 3 and 4 would all probably be violated by putting entire series online without permission -- YouTube is a commercial operation, the entire show rather than selected portions are being put up, and making shows freely available can definitely be argued to have an effect on their market and value.

    § 107 . Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

    Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—

    (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

    (2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

    (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

    (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

    The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

    Report message13

  • Message 64

    , in reply to message 61.

    Posted by technologist (U1259929) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    Traffic Cops is NOT a BBC programme - it was made by Folio Tv which is part of Mentorn ..
    thus it may be that the BBC does not hold the rights!!!! and thus it can subject to the roghts owner be on you tube
    As standard BBC terms are primary for five years with limited showings without further payment.

    Report message14

  • Message 65

    , in reply to message 64.

    Posted by Fedster (U14967576) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    This is getting quite intresting now, i am genuinely suprised at how many full epsiodes of BBC Shows are avaliable on youtube, take away BBC Sport, it seems like you can watch almost any BBC Show, through a quick search on youtube, just to be clear its obviously wrong to post copyrighted material on youtube, but the amount of stuff that is avaliable is astonishing, even with that link provided by Lee, it seems that the BBC are being rather generous.

    Report message15

  • Message 66

    , in reply to message 57.

    Posted by Dover Soul (U14934992) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    It could be the "fair use" bit that caused the OP to come unstuck. s/he has said they had 3 removed which sank the channel and had been through it all before.

    Report message16

  • Message 67

    , in reply to message 66.

    Posted by Lee (U1149673) ** on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    It could be the "fair use" bit that caused the OP to come unstuck. s/he has said they had 3 removed which sank the channel and had been through it all before.

     
    Another possibility is the bit where the BBC said: "it would reserve the right to have content removed that had been edited or altered in a way that would damage the BBC's brand".

    Only the OP and the BBC's legal representatives will know for sure.

  • Message 68

    , in reply to message 67.

    Posted by Dover Soul (U14934992) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    It could be the "fair use" bit that caused the OP to come unstuck. s/he has said they had 3 removed which sank the channel and had been through it all before.

     
    Another possibility is the bit where the BBC said: "it would reserve the right to have content removed that had been edited or altered in a way that would damage the BBC's brand".

    Only the OP and the BBC's legal representatives will know for sure. 
    Yes, but I still find it quite cheeky to say the least that the OP came to the BBC to help them with their problems with youtube, after repeatedly putting up BBC footage without permission. But maybe that's just me.

    Report message18

  • Message 69

    , in reply to message 68.

    Posted by Lee (U1149673) ** on Saturday, 23rd February 2013

    No, it's not just you. And to be frank, asking for help while heading your thread "BBC Complaints - are they difficult, stupid or just both?" is, erm, a bit thick actually.

  • Message 70

    , in reply to message 62.

    This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the House Rules in some way.

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