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BBC Sport's new website is live!

Messages: 101 - 150 of 555
  • Message 101

    , in reply to message 95.

    Posted by Peta (U24) on Tuesday, 21st February 2012


    One final thing. I'm sure it's just bad luck but both the remaining open blogs on the sports website have just frozen, unable to take any more comments apparently. The System Development team must be devastated.  

    They seem to be working fine now John. smiley - ok

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  • Message 102

    , in reply to message 101.

    Posted by John Winfield (U14349683) on Tuesday, 21st February 2012

    Peta, thank you for all your posts, updates and extracts. You are our beacon in the darkness! The BBC editorial / blog posting pieces are particularly interesting.

    John

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  • Message 103

    , in reply to message 101.

    Posted by John Winfield (U14349683) on Tuesday, 21st February 2012


    One final thing. I'm sure it's just bad luck but both the remaining open blogs on the sports website have just frozen, unable to take any more comments apparently. The System Development team must be devastated.  

    They seem to be working fine now John. smiley - ok 
    "They (the Ben / Scott blogs) seem to be working fine now John"

    Thank you. While they were frozen again yesterday I found another relevant BBC blog, that of Jon Jacob entitled 'The thinking and work behind the BBC Sport website redesign'. A few people had posted and I added my own asking if Jon intended to post himself, engaging with the users. No reply this morning so I posted something similar. No reply again and I now see that all posts have been deleted.....as if they never existed.

    Ever since I was a child I have been biased in favour of the BBC; television, radio and, latterly, websites. I was suspicious of any governments or pressure groups that threatened what I saw as a very worthy institution. These last few days constitute the first time that I have ever had to deal with the BBC, at length, on any issue. Apart from your own responsive approach, Peta, it has been a very depressing experience.

    You've read my complaints about Ben and Scott choosing not to engage with BBC 'customers'. For the posts on Jon Jacob's blog to be deleted, with no explanation, really says it all. Even if he had never intended to encourage posts, they were there. People had bothered to engage with him. He, I assume, chose not to engage with them.

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  • Message 104

    , in reply to message 98.

    Posted by Bankhayes (U15138641) on Tuesday, 21st February 2012


    I'm sorry no - as I said, I don't work for the sports team or the design team - I work for the Points of View programme team - our programme covers TV programmes on the BBC.

    I believe that there is a little on the research methodology on the blogs, they mention a series of qualitative research sessions, which is the usual method used to evaluate web site designs.

    Please do post to the blogs or use their feedback forms, as I say - I'm really not the person with the answers here!  
    Peta, can you tell me if the BBC has a policy on whether blog writers have to react with commenters on their blogs, In other words, are they able to completely ignore respondents if they like? 

    Hi Bankhayes

    Here's a link to the relevant bit of BBC editorial policy and an extract.

    It's good if blog posters can and do respond to questions, but there isn't a stipulation that they have to reply to each and every single question asked - that would be unmanageable, it's unlikely that they'll be the resources to put a full time host on any of the blogs.

    www.bbc.co.uk/editor...

    GuidanceModeration, Hosting, Escalation and User Management

    Hosting and User Management

    A BBC host should enhance the quality, enjoyment and distinctiveness of online spaces for our users. A host's active and visible presence should also lessen the risk of an online space becoming dominated by a small number of bullies or troublemakers. Hosting can save time and effort in the long run because if a space is taken over by a small group, it may require a huge amount of effort to restore the space to a point where other users feel welcome enough to participate again in significant numbers. The presence of a host may also enable lighter touch moderation.

    A good host will understand online etiquette and use it to work collaboratively with individual and groups of users. As the local public voice of the BBC, a host should be able to demonstrate the values of transparency and accountability in action, for example by providing authoritative information about when the next series starts or why a BBC site is being closed down, and they should ensure that the BBC House Rules are upheld. They will work with the moderation team and let them know about any particular sensitivities or issues.

    The appropriate level of hosting will vary depending on the nature of the service and the expectations of the users of that service.

    Users may value BBC blogs and message boards as an opportunity to interact directly with the BBC as much as with each other. Good hosting on a blog may mean that blog authors or members of their production team interact regularly with their users through blog comments.

    Where authors aren't going to read and reply to some comments on their blog, it may be better to make this clear to the audience or for example to describe the space as something other than blog - we should take care to manage audience expectations appropriately.

    Message board hosts should provide a more visible and dedicated presence. They are likely to meet and greet new users, encourage more contributions, defuse rows and monitor the overall tone of conversations; they may seek feedback from the audience and should be seen to act on this where possible.

    Some BBC social media spaces may not require a traditional hosting presence e.g. simple picture galleries of images provided by members of the public. But whether or not a BBC space has an active and visible host, a named individual must be responsible for user management. This will normally be the BBC host, but where there isn't one it will usually be the site producer or another member of the production team. The person responsible for user management should deal with moderation referrals, escalation and complaints about moderation in a timely way. For popular or controversial sites, this may involve some significant effort. See the section on escalation for guidance on dealing with complaints about moderation decisions.

    Hosts may be members of staff or part of an independent production team, if that team is providing online content to the BBC. Hosts must be properly trained so that for example they can escalate tricky issues with confidence. Any proposal for an independent production team to act as hosts should be agreed well in advance with the Commissioning Executive or equivalent and the relevant Divisional Social Media Executive.
     
     
    Peta, thank you very much for responding to my question. It seems very clear then that Ben Gallop does not follow online etiquette (as understood by BBC editorial policy) because he has not responded to a single comment on his blog since publishing it 12 days ago (despite there being over 700 comments). He has not "made this clear to the audience" nor has he described the "blog" as something else.
    I agree with you that it would be impossible (and unwise) to respond to every single question but the complete silence just reinforces the opinion of many that Mr Gallop and his team are arrogant, unresponsive and incompetent. All those adjectives may be incorrect but the complaints may continue to mount until Ben explains himself.
    There are prima facie grounds for a complaint to the powers above and I expect they may be fending off quite a few.

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  • Message 105

    , in reply to message 104.

    Posted by GaryB007 (U3895241) on Tuesday, 21st February 2012

    The current blog has been closed and yet another new one from Ben Gallop has appeared.

    I guess the Beeb's strategy is to fragment the comments among many blogs to keep the numbers down.

    For those who want to see his latest musings, here you go:

    www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...

    He does at least admit there are problems now, which is a bit of a breakthrough.

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  • Message 106

    , in reply to message 105.

    Posted by Peta (U24) on Tuesday, 21st February 2012


    Thanks Gary - I just came on to post the same link

    www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...

    Do have a read of the new blog - this bit particularly caught my eye as it relates to some of your posts on here about feedback - but read the whole thing, this bit is just an extract... smiley - smiley

    Before I do that, a word on how we are communicating to you about these changes. Unfortunately it isn't practical to post comments in response to every individual message we receive - so I hope you understand that it makes more sense to provide broader updates like this one on a regular basis. By blogging in this way we are at least able to reach a larger proportion of the audience and can address the widest range of questions and concerns.

    And just to avoid any confusion, our other blogs on the relaunch have now been closed to new comments, so the place to have your say on this issue is here. We are also continuing our site survey which allows us to canvas a wider range of opinion - feel free to get involved with that too.

    Continued on the blog page www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...

     

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  • Message 107

    , in reply to message 105.

    Posted by Peta (U24) on Tuesday, 21st February 2012


    Oh Gary! smiley - doh

    I guess the Beeb's strategy is to fragment the comments among many blogs to keep the numbers down.  

    It's going to be *much* clearer if they keep the comments with the blogs they relate to, as each blog covers different issues and stages of the development.

    It also means that they don't have to start checking all the blogs to see which have new posts - and neither do you the posters - so it saves everyone a fair bit of time. smiley - ok


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  • Message 108

    , in reply to message 107.

    Posted by Fedster (U14967576) on Tuesday, 21st February 2012

    This issue reminds me of many other issues that the Messageboarding/Blogging Community have been outraged over, the topic could be anything from Changes to the PoV board a few years ago, or Adrian Van Klavern Blogging about record Rajar figures for 5live, all these topics were polluted by negative views, with only 1% saying anything postive, the rest of the coments were aggressive and the posters holding these views were convinced large swathes of the population agreed with them just because of largely negative messages on the forums.

    The truth is though, people are more likely to post negative views, i bet there are large numbers who have not got a probelm with the new site, but they dont feel the urge to contrbute to BBC Forums, so its harder to get an accurate picture just by reading Blogs and Boards.

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  • Message 109

    , in reply to message 108.

    Posted by John Winfield (U14349683) on Tuesday, 21st February 2012

    108.
    Fedster, that's possibly fair comment, and a line that one or two of the BBC hosts have used themselves. It's equally possible that some disgruntled, or vaguely unimpressed casual users haven't bothered contributing to the blogs either.

    As a result, it was suggested to Ben and the others that i) the survey results be made public for us all to know general reaction to the site and ii) that a very simple 'voting button' feature be added. Something along the lines of 'Do you like this site? Yes or No'.

    But of course, as far as I know, none of the BBC hosts/managers were polite enough to reply.

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  • Message 110

    , in reply to message 109.

    Posted by Fedster (U14967576) on Tuesday, 21st February 2012

    John it would not make sense for the BBC to have an unpoular Sport/News site, why would they want to ignore comments from the majority, when it will lead to a drop in the numbers visiting the site, so its illogical to suggest that the BBC are ignoring the views of the majority, having the majority happy with the site is in the best intrests of the BBC, so the notion that they are not listening, or that the views on Blogs/Messageboards makes up the majority viewpoint doesnt nake sense i am afraid.

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  • Message 111

    , in reply to message 109.

    Posted by Peta (U24) on Tuesday, 21st February 2012

    108.
    Fedster, that's possibly fair comment, and a line that one or two of the BBC hosts have used themselves. It's equally possible that some disgruntled, or vaguely unimpressed casual users haven't bothered contributing to the blogs either.

    As a result, it was suggested to Ben and the others that i) the survey results be made public for us all to know general reaction to the site and ii) that a very simple 'voting button' feature be added. Something along the lines of 'Do you like this site? Yes or No'.

    But of course, as far as I know, none of the BBC hosts/managers were polite enough to reply. 

    Hi John

    I don't know whether the sports team might make the survey results public, that'd have to be a question that you'd need to ask them.

    I can add a comment about the 'yes' 'no' voting idea though - it seems like a good idea at first - but I'm not sure what it would really tell you and how useful knowing yes/no would be.

    If 80% of people said 'yes' they liked it, you'd still *really* want to know why the 20% didn't, perhaps they've encountered a problem relating to their specific computer or browser, perhaps they're using a different part of the site to other people, perhaps they sported a bug on say, the cycling page, that no one else has noticed.

    So, it's more useful to have a survey up on the site, where people can tell you whether they like the site or not *and* give you related information about why that is, which bits of the site they're using and so on.

    You'll have seen my earlier links to the survey - it's still open to new feedback - so if anyone hasn't shared their views please do, it's the best way of enabling the team to progress and develop the site. smiley - ok

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  • Message 112

    , in reply to message 111.

    Posted by Peta (U24) on Tuesday, 21st February 2012


    I have to shoot away from the computer now - I'll be back in the morning, I'll leave it all with you to discuss until then. Have a good evening!

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  • Message 113

    , in reply to message 109.

    Posted by GaryB007 (U3895241) on Tuesday, 21st February 2012

    Posted by Peta

    Oh Gary! smiley - doh

    It's going to be *much* clearer if they keep the comments with the blogs they relate to, as each blog covers different issues and stages of the development.

    It also means that they don't have to start checking all the blogs to see which have new posts - and neither do you the posters - so it saves everyone a fair bit of time. smiley - ok 


    I'm sure you think I'm a cynical wotsit who just fancies having yet another dig at the BBC, but when I see something that I and many others use regularly comprehensively ruined (at our expense), I hope you'll understand my (and others) frustration. My posts will hopefully show that when the BBC does something good, I'm in there saying so, but they've got this very wrong.

    I take your point about the various blogs, but to keep closing one and starting another does suggest, at least to me, that the BBC want to keep the comments numbers low. It would be better to have one set of comments about the redesign, at least then we wouldn't have to keep trying to find one blog after another and we could see the progress of any improvements via the (hopefully improving) comments.

    I use the BBC Blog RSS feed by the way, so wherever they hide them, I'll find them smiley - smiley

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  • Message 114

    , in reply to message 110.

    Posted by Radioactiveoldduffer (U4768882) on Tuesday, 21st February 2012

    Remember British Airways with their new tail design or Royal Mail changing their name? Both defended their decisions to the hilt until someone finally had the common sense to change them back. No one has criticised the content of the new web pages it's the poor design which has drawn the most flak and the mysterious 80% who thought it was better. The biggest search engine on the web is still the simplest and perhaps that's the reason why it has been so successful.

    This I find easier on the eye and simple to navigate - it may not be perfect but it is easier to use and that is surely what makes a good web site.

    www.skysports.com/...

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  • Message 115

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by chris (U15015933) on Tuesday, 21st February 2012

    We have relaunched the BBC Sport website for the first time since 2003, and have made a number of improvements.

    First off, Watch Dan Walker's guide to the new BBC Sport website, that gives you a guide to all the new features; you can watch this here:

    www.bbc.co.uk/sport/...

    Football Focus presenter Dan Walker takes a tour around the new BBC Sport website, which has been relaunched ahead of a busy year of sport in 2012. 

    You can find out more about our new-look site on our

    Sport Editors' blog www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...

    where you can comment directly to the sports team and take a tour of some of the new features via our photo gallery www.bbc.co.uk/sport/...

    You can send the sports team feedback - good and bad - by completing our short survey feedback survey: ecustomeropinions.co...

    What are the main changes? Read the bbc.co.uk/sport 2012 redesign - FAQs
    www.bbc.co.uk/sport/...



     
    agggrhhhhhh!

    What an ugly design!
    What a downgraded site! - its ok if you follow one of either the top sports or top teams from said sports - what I used to like about the old football section was that it was quick and EASY to find all results from different leagues including and espically Non leauge (you know the football outside of the overpaid premership stars). Now I've switched to a number of other sites and am avoiding the custard tart coloured bbc one.

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  • Message 116

    , in reply to message 113.

    Posted by Peta (U24) on Wednesday, 22nd February 2012

    Posted by Peta

    Oh Gary! smiley - doh

    It's going to be *much* clearer if they keep the comments with the blogs they relate to, as each blog covers different issues and stages of the development.

    It also means that they don't have to start checking all the blogs to see which have new posts - and neither do you the posters - so it saves everyone a fair bit of time. smiley - ok 


    I'm sure you think I'm a cynical wotsit who just fancies having yet another dig at the BBC, but when I see something that I and many others use regularly comprehensively ruined (at our expense), I hope you'll understand my (and others) frustration. My posts will hopefully show that when the BBC does something good, I'm in there saying so, but they've got this very wrong.

    I take your point about the various blogs, but to keep closing one and starting another does suggest, at least to me, that the BBC want to keep the comments numbers low. It would be better to have one set of comments about the redesign, at least then we wouldn't have to keep trying to find one blog after another and we could see the progress of any improvements via the (hopefully improving) comments.

    I use the BBC Blog RSS feed by the way, so wherever they hide them, I'll find them smiley - smiley 

    Good morning Gary!

    To me, it doesn't make sense to have one very long set of blog comments attached to one blog (presumably the first one), because that way you wouldn't be able to comment on the latest blog about the latest design upgrades - In order to do what you're suggesting you'd have to keep comments closed on the most recent blog and direct to the oldest blog (which presumably would be likely to contain content that was now out-dated). How could that work? We'd have new blogs with closed comments - that'd raise more than an eyebrow or two! smiley - winkeye

    Ideally, blog comments from the public contain good feedback and suggestions for improvements, it doesn't add a great deal of value if comments are 'I don't like yellow' - especially if a handful of people keep repeating the same thing over and over again, just to pump up the 'numbers'. It's not a voting system. It's way more helpful to get high quality detailed feedback from a wide range of users. If you forced all of the comments onto the first blog you'd be asking people to sift through hundreds of comments, just to find the latest ones which wouldn't relate to the blog post they were on, it would just be confusing!

    The sports team are keeping people regularly updated with progress and are explaining the process as they go along - and your feedback to all of the stages and blog posts is really helpful.

    As you say, you can readily find the new blogs via an RSS feed, and I'll post links to them too, in order to bring them to people's attention, just in case others miss them. smiley - ok

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  • Message 117

    , in reply to message 114.

    Posted by Peta (U24) on Wednesday, 22nd February 2012

    Remember British Airways with their new tail design or Royal Mail changing their name? Both defended their decisions to the hilt until someone finally had the common sense to change them back. No one has criticised the content of the new web pages it's the poor design which has drawn the most flak and the mysterious 80% who thought it was better. The biggest search engine on the web is still the simplest and perhaps that's the reason why it has been so successful.

    This I find easier on the eye and simple to navigate - it may not be perfect but it is easier to use and that is surely what makes a good web site.

    www.skysports.com/...

     

    Thanks for the feedback radioactiveOldDuffer

    I've had a look at both and compared - but I'm not a sports fan so I think my view isn't really relevant! smiley - doh

    I know that you have given feedback to the sports team already, but please (you and any and all posters posting here!) keep the feedback coming to the sports team on their blogs and via their survey, the more that you can explain to them about exactly why you're finding the site hard to navigate the more they'll have to analyse and work on.

    Thanks for all of your input so far, it's much appreciated. smiley - smiley

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  • Message 118

    , in reply to message 117.

    Posted by John Winfield (U14349683) on Wednesday, 22nd February 2012

    Morning Peta,
    I note your replies to Gary and R-O-D and understand the points you make.

    I think though that, apart from the shock caused by the new sports website, it's the manner in which users' concerns have been handled which causes much of the ill feeling. Even allowing for the quantity of user comments involved, the approach taken by the BBC staff, whose blogs actively encouraged feedback, has been entirely at odds with the helpful guidelines that you posted yesterday.

    After two weeks of silence, Ben finally posted again yesterday. Some of the issues raised are being addressed, some receive no mention at all, and we have no idea when he plans to post again. This one-way style of communication is, I believe, a prime cause of the anger that is evident in the 115 new contributions already posted. I suggested to him that, if he or colleagues can't host the blog effectively (engaging with BBC 'users'), at least communicate with us by posting an update, say, every two or three days. What do you think?

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  • Message 119

    , in reply to message 118.

    Posted by Peta (U24) on Wednesday, 22nd February 2012

    Good morning John,

    I'm sorry that you feel it's been badly handled, Ben does stress in his latest blog post (extracts below) that they are taking feedback into account, and I can see that they've made great efforts to address many of your concerns in this the most recent blog post.

    www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...

    It's now nearly three weeks since we relaunched the BBC Sport website and I wanted to update you on where we are with this on-going project - including the sorts of issues we are looking at for the next round of changes, based on the feedback we continue to receive.

    Before I do that, a word on how we are communicating to you about these changes. Unfortunately it isn't practical to post comments in response to every individual message we receive - so I hope you understand that it makes more sense to provide broader updates like this one on a regular basis. By blogging in this way we are at least able to reach a larger proportion of the audience and can address the widest range of questions and concerns. 


    In terms of the on-going work to improve our web product, I need to reiterate that we do take account of all the feedback we receive - including every message on the blog. We treat audience research seriously and will continue to absorb the comments we receive and then take considered, strategic decisions based on the key priorities. 

    ....So that's a list of some of the priority areas of focus for us. It's not exhaustive and I realise I haven't provided full detail on exactly what we plan to do.

    But I will stress what I said in my original blog post about this relaunch - which is that we will not be making knee-jerk changes. We have already implemented immediate fixes to mend 'broken' elements on the site (including the 'flashing' banner and video which automatically played on certain pages) but other changes need more consideration and testing, and our software developers require time and space to put them into place.

    Even though there may be no instant changes to announce right now, that does not mean we are ignoring any issues that you have raised. We will come back to this blog to let you know as and when we have more specific news to announce.
     


    As Ben says "other changes need more consideration and testing, and our software developers require time and space to put them into place" so an update every two or three days might not be helpful, but he does say that he'll post again as soon as they have news.

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  • Message 120

    , in reply to message 119.

    Posted by Spinning_head (U10049943) on Thursday, 23rd February 2012

    Ben says "we will not be making knee-jerk changes".

    In my view, the whole 'redesign' was a knee-jerk reaction to someone's request. It's this radical misdirection which angers me - and many, many others.

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  • Message 121

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Squirrel (U961634) on Thursday, 23rd February 2012


    Peta, How does this discussion about BBC SPORT fit with the statement at the top of the section?

    "This BBC topic does not host discussions about BBC radio stations, radio programmes or radio presenters, news stories, sport, or current affairs."

    If you can post excitedly about a BBC Sport website, why can't I post about BBC Radio 4?

    Why can't you tweet about it, if you must, as you keep telling us to do?

    It seems rather inconsistent!

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  • Message 122

    , in reply to message 119.

    Posted by John Winfield (U14349683) on Thursday, 23rd February 2012

    Hi Peta,
    Yes, thanks, I had already read Ben's post in some detail. I think you're being generous with 'great efforts'! He has been slow to communicate and very selective in his response.
    In two days his new blog has generated over 220 replies: they are a mixture of i) frustrated users, desperate for answers to questions raised several days, if not weeks ago
    ii) new contributors, attracted to the blog possibly because the link button is now more visible, half way down the long page, rather than right at the bottom. These new contributors are, once again, almost all critical rather than welcoming of the heavily modified website.

    You mentioned the survey as a means of gauging user satisfaction with the new site. Could you have a quick look at the sports homepage, please? I can't see the survey link button at all now! Is it just me? Is it visible, in a prominent position, for those who have not yet responded?
    Thanks for your help.
    John

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  • Message 123

    , in reply to message 121.

    Posted by John Winfield (U14349683) on Thursday, 23rd February 2012


    Peta, How does this discussion about BBC SPORT fit with the statement at the top of the section?

    "This BBC topic does not host discussions about BBC radio stations, radio programmes or radio presenters, news stories, sport, or current affairs."

    If you can post excitedly about a BBC Sport website, why can't I post about BBC Radio 4?

    Why can't you tweet about it, if you must, as you keep telling us to do?

    It seems rather inconsistent!

     
    Squirrel,
    It is a bit odd isn't it? At least with Radio 4 we have Feedback.

    When we sports website users found ourselves trapped by website managers and systems developers who just wouldn't respond, we looked for somewhere on the BBC that would 'engage' with us. Peta has done that admirably.

    I think that, if I want to complain about You and Yours being too exciting, or ask for The World at One to be extended to four hours and run straight into PM, I shall slip it into one of these Sports Website posts.

    It would be useful to have something like this for Radio. Apart from Feedback, I think many of the Radio 4 blogs encourage user comments.
    John

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  • Message 124

    , in reply to message 123.

    Posted by Squirrel (U961634) on Thursday, 23rd February 2012

    It would be useful to have something like this for Radio. 

    Yes, wouldn't it just! There used to be such things, but BBC Radio just don't have the budget for it apparently.

    BBC Sport does have numerous blogs, e-mail addresses, contact pages, twitter wotsit feeds and facebook groups or whatever. No budget problems prevent their website development!

    At least we have Peta though... smiley - smiley

    I find it strange that BBC rules, even those about sport on the BBC, are so easily broken by BBC Sport. They seem to hold some power over the rest of the corporation... Even over Peta... smiley - weird

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  • Message 125

    , in reply to message 119.

    Posted by John Winfield (U14349683) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    Peta, good morning.

    Do you have any idea why the only remaining relevant BBC Sports blog (Ben Gallop) is now closed for comment?

    Also, did you have a chance to see if you can find the site user survey facility / button? Where is it I wonder? How are people meant to express their views?!

    Thanks,
    John

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  • Message 126

    , in reply to message 125.

    Posted by GaryB007 (U3895241) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    Looks like they're using the same tactics as the they did when the main site was "improved". Kill off the blogs (which are the only real mouthpiece that those who've funded this mess have) and hope that stops the complaints.

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  • Message 127

    , in reply to message 125.

    Posted by Peta (U24) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    Good morning John,

    Sorry no, I don't know why the new blog is closed to comments. I expect a new one will be along shortly though smiley - bus , so you can comments about the next stages and steps.

    The site survey appears to have moved from the front page to the Sport FAQs section ..

    BBC Sport Help/FAQs www.bbc.co.uk/sport/...

    If you have a question about BBC Sport, please read these Frequently Asked Questions first.

    If your query is about our new-look website, which we launched on 1 February 2012, we have published a special set of FAQs www.bbc.co.uk/sport/... and there is also a feedback survey. 


    If you'd like to register a complaint Gary, you can always complain through the main BBC complaints site www.bbc.co.uk/compla....

    I think idea of development blogs are more to enable people to give feedback that the team can use to improve the site rather than just enable people to post complaints over and over - at some point the topic - and the development - moves on.

    Remember that I'm not here at all over the weekend, but I'll be around and about today. smiley - ok

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  • Message 128

    , in reply to message 125.

    Posted by Bankhayes (U15138641) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    i would like to echo these sentiments. There have been almost 250 comments on this blog and it has only been up for 3 days. There is now no way to feedback views to the Sports website team. We have been told so often in recent weeks that they "value" this greatly.

    Reply to this message 28

    Report message28

  • Message 129

    , in reply to message 127.

    Posted by Spinning_head (U10049943) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    Thanks for the info Peta. Your patience in this thread is very much appreciated. smiley - smiley

    Reply to this message 29

    Report message29

  • Message 130

    , in reply to message 128.

    Posted by Peta (U24) on Friday, 24th February 2012


    Hi Bankhayes

    As my two posts above say you can register a complaint via the complaints site (link in post above), and/or complete the feedback survey

    BBC Sport Help/FAQs www.bbc.co.uk/sport/...

    If you have a question about BBC Sport, please read these Frequently Asked Questions first.

    If your query is about our new-look website, which we launched on 1 February 2012, we have published a special set of FAQs www.bbc.co.uk/sport/... and there is also a feedback survey. 


    New blogs and comment areas will be forthcoming - you'll be able to comment on those then.

    Reply to this message 30

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  • Message 131

    , in reply to message 129.

    Posted by Peta (U24) on Friday, 24th February 2012


    Thank you Spinning_Head smiley - smiley

    I think we all need a weekend break now!

    Reply to this message 31

    Report message31

  • Message 132

    , in reply to message 130.

    Posted by conion (U9432813) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    New blogs and comment areas will be forthcoming - you'll be able to comment on those then 

    Will the feedback and comments be like the early evening BBC1 Alexander Armstrong quiz show?

    Reply to this message 32

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  • Message 133

    , in reply to message 127.

    Posted by GaryB007 (U3895241) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    Posted by Peta

    If you'd like to register a complaint Gary, you can always complain through the main BBC complaints site www.bbc.co.uk/compla....  


    If I thought it might actually achieve something, I would probably take the trouble to do so, but experience has shown that those in senior management positions at the BBC simply don't listen. They have their own ideas, views and visions and nothing will sway them from their chose path. Maybe that's internal culture within the BBC, maybe it's because they're not directly accountable to their audience, maybe they're just worried about keeping their job, I don't know, but it is extremely frustrating for us license payers who don't seem to be able to call anyone to account for what we see and a complete mess up.

    Hundreds/thousands of complaints about the redesign of these forums a while back, the BBC Home Page redesign, and programme related issues such as loud background music, DOGs and all of the other things that have generated high volumes of posts have achieved virtually nothing, so you can hopefully understand my slightly cynical attitude.

    Peta, you have engaged with viewers far more than any BBC manager has done and they would do well to notice that and maybe even follow your example, but based on previous experience, I doubt that will happen.

    Reply to this message 33

    Report message33

  • Message 134

    , in reply to message 133.

    Posted by John Winfield (U14349683) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    Agreed Gary.

    Peta, I think the manner in which Ben Gallop has closed his blog to further comments is unforgivable and very unprofessional. The BBC blog guidelines are clear, the user interest is obvious, the feedback, as mentioned above, is apparently 'valued'.
    Yet he doesn't even have the manners to sign off with a final post explaining why he has decided to close the blog.

    Looking at his profile, and career background, I would have thought he would understand the concept of communication, and the benefits of engaging with interested and constructive users. But sadly, apparently not.

    John

    Reply to this message 34

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  • Message 135

    , in reply to message 127.

    Posted by GM (U15155694) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    Peta -

    Like so many others, I am shocked to see that the latest blog as been so quickly closed, and without the updates promised. We're about to enter yet another busy sporting weekend with a malfunctioning BBC Sports website and no clue as to when, of even if, the obvious issues will be resolved.

    It gives the impression of heavy-handed arrogance at the BBC. There's no need to bother telling me about the complaints procedure - I've already complained and await a response (though I hold out little hope of anything other than platitudes).

    I'm sure you wouldn't treat your correspondents here with such contempt. Why, then, does BBC Sport feel able to do so?

    Reply to this message 35

    Report message35

  • Message 136

    , in reply to message 128.

    Posted by Bankhayes (U15138641) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    Peta, you've got to love your friendly colleagues! There was a blog by Neil Hall (part of the team which confessed to creating the Yellow Peril) which was open for comment but it's just been closed by someone called Nick Reynolds because "as all other blogs on this subject have been closed for comments, I'll now close this one". What a bunker mentality!

    Reply to this message 36

    Report message36

  • Message 137

    , in reply to message 136.

    Posted by John Winfield (U14349683) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    Peta, you've got to love your friendly colleagues! There was a blog by Neil Hall (part of the team which confessed to creating the Yellow Peril) which was open for comment but it's just been closed by someone called Nick Reynolds because "as all other blogs on this subject have been closed for comments, I'll now close this one". What a bunker mentality!
     
    Incredible!

    As Bankhayes tells us, the BBC's Nick Reynolds writes:

    "We were hoping for one final comment from Neil before closing this post. but he has been understandably busy. So as all other blogs on this subject have been closed for comments, I'll now close this one.

    Thanks for your comments. There will be futher posts about the Sport website both here and on the Sports Editors blog in the future."

    Illogical, defensive and arrogant.

    I think the BBC catenaccio defence was caught out here. That blog WAS closed to comments some days ago but then re-opened - you can see a two day gap. Perhaps Neil or a colleague were about to break ranks and spill the beans but were caught just before pressing 'Send'. Now he's described as 'understandably busy', clearly a euphemism for a spell in the basement 'correction room', where I guess he is now listening to a loop tape of 'Keeping the Customer Guessing' by B. Gallop

    Reply to this message 37

    Report message37

  • Message 138

    , in reply to message 136.

    Posted by Spinning_head (U10049943) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    Peta, you've got to love your friendly colleagues! There was a blog by Neil Hall (part of the team which confessed to creating the Yellow Peril) which was open for comment but it's just been closed by someone called Nick Reynolds because "as all other blogs on this subject have been closed for comments, I'll now close this one". What a bunker mentality!
     
    The blog referred to is...

    www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...

    The quote from Nick Reynolds...

    "We were hoping for one final comment from Neil before closing this post. but he has been understandably busy. So as all other blogs on this subject have been closed for comments, I'll now close this one.

    Thanks for your comments. There will be futher posts about the Sport website both here and on the Sports Editors blog in the future."

    "The left hand hasn't a clue what the right hand is doing!"

    Reply to this message 38

    Report message38

  • Message 139

    , in reply to message 138.

    Posted by John Winfield (U14349683) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    Thanks for posting this you two. My post just above has been removed for breaking house rules.

    It's becoming harder and harder to find anywhere to express concern regarding the website. I'm sure this isn't deliberate.

    Reply to this message 39

    Report message39

  • Message 140

    , in reply to message 133.

    Posted by Lydia Dusbin (U15056042) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    Posted by Peta

    If you'd like to register a complaint Gary, you can always complain through the main BBC complaints site www.bbc.co.uk/compla....  


    If I thought it might actually achieve something, I would probably take the trouble to do so, but experience has shown that those in senior management positions at the BBC simply don't listen. They have their own ideas, views and visions and nothing will sway them from their chose path. Maybe that's internal culture within the BBC, maybe it's because they're not directly accountable to their audience, maybe they're just worried about keeping their job, I don't know, but it is extremely frustrating for us license payers who don't seem to be able to call anyone to account for what we see and a complete mess up.

    Hundreds/thousands of complaints about the redesign of these forums a while back, the BBC Home Page redesign, and programme related issues such as loud background music, DOGs and all of the other things that have generated high volumes of posts have achieved virtually nothing, so you can hopefully understand my slightly cynical attitude.

    Peta, you have engaged with viewers far more than any BBC manager has done and they would do well to notice that and maybe even follow your example, but based on previous experience, I doubt that will happen. 
    I agree Gary.

    I certainly experienced no satisfactory process when I tried to use the official complaints channel. It ended with nothing - as it appears designed to do so.

    I won't try to complain again. I'll just cease to be a user of BBC output.

    Reply to this message 40

    Report message40

  • Message 141

    , in reply to message 138.

    Posted by Green Soap (U899978) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    Typical behaviour from Nick.

    He's plenty of history on closing blogs when the voices are deafening with dissent.

    Reply to this message 41

    Report message41

  • Message 142

    , in reply to message 140.

    Posted by Lydia Dusbin (U15056042) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    So is there any channel for feedback now? I can't find any open blogs on the Sports site relaunch, all the BBC Homepage ones were closed a long time ago, and even the links to the feedback surveys on each are now removed from the sites.

    Reply to this message 42

    Report message42

  • Message 143

    , in reply to message 142.

    Posted by John Winfield (U14349683) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    Peta,
    If you or your P of V colleagues have had any influence over the BBC Sports website people then thanks. Ben Gallup's blog is now, once again, open for comments!

    www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...

    Reply to this message 43

    Report message43

  • Message 144

    , in reply to message 143.

    Posted by Peta (U24) on Friday, 24th February 2012

    Peta,
    If you or your P of V colleagues have had any influence over the BBC Sports website people then thanks. Ben Gallup's blog is now, once again, open for comments!

    www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/... 

    Great, I've been emailing people all day!

    Have a good weekend John - I'm off now - I actually finished work at 1pm, I shouldn't be here at all! smiley - winkeye

    smiley - run

    Reply to this message 44

    Report message44

  • Message 145

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by swearydad (U8491406) on Saturday, 25th February 2012

    "We have relaunched the BBC Sport website for the first time since 2003, and have made a number of improvements."

    No, you have not made improvements. You have complicated things so that they are annoying. I want to know the football fixtures for today, tomorrow and the weekday games. I do NOT want to see huge lists with a load of Premiership games for next weekend listed before today's Championship games. The league tables are different because YOU want them to be different. Put the columns in the league tables back where they belong. The goal difference and points columns should be the next to last and last columns, not the second and third.
    It''s crap. We don't like it but ubfortunately we also know that the BBC are only interested in their own opinions and no-one else's.

    Reply to this message 45

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  • Message 146

    , in reply to message 145.

    Posted by Radioactiveoldduffer (U4768882) on Saturday, 25th February 2012

    Have a look at the bottom paragraph of this piece for a telling remark from Ben.

    www.theweek.co.uk/me...

    Reply to this message 46

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  • Message 147

    , in reply to message 146.

    Posted by Lydia Dusbin (U15056042) on Saturday, 25th February 2012

    Have a look at the bottom paragraph of this piece for a telling remark from Ben.

    www.theweek.co.uk/me...

     
    Hi RadioActiveOld Duffer,

    Here is that original blog of Ben Gallop's
    www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...

    To be honest these blogs are fairly meaningless as they are PR pieces rather than opinions as they purport to be. These designs are created by committee rather than the inspired pen of an individual - and so consequently some in the team may disagree with the result -but they are never going to admit it in a blog.

    Blogs, by definition, are a personal log. Corporate blogs, especially BBC blogs, are not that, they are a corporate piece crafted to influence and inform, but given a staffer's name to give the impression of credibility, personal opinion and candour. Recent experience suggests that the audience are more sceptical of those aims.

    Reply to this message 47

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  • Message 148

    , in reply to message 146.

    Posted by becky sharp (U4544768) on Monday, 27th February 2012

    Have a look at the bottom paragraph of this piece for a telling remark from Ben 

    I liked Alex Chick's remarks further up in the article

    Journalist Alex Chick hit the nail on the head when he commented sagely: "Tweets about the new BBC Sport site appear to be split between those who hate it, and those who work for the BBC."

    smiley - ok smiley - laugh

    Reply to this message 48

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  • Message 149

    , in reply to message 144.

    Posted by John Winfield (U14349683) on Tuesday, 28th February 2012

    Good morning Peta,
    Just to let you know that it's now exactly a week since Ben Gallop, or anyone else from the BBC, gave interested BBC website users any information on the sports website changes. He has received 450 posts on his blog and hasn't replied to one. This appears to be in direct contravention of the clear BBC blogging guidelines that were posted.
    It wouldn't have taken much for him to respond in some form, even with a short update every two or three days. I'm sure you can imagine the damage this does to the BBC's credibility.
    John

    Reply to this message 49

    Report message49

  • Message 150

    , in reply to message 149.

    Posted by John Winfield (U14349683) on Tuesday, 28th February 2012

    Hello again Peta.
    Do you have any news on this issue. Are the sports editors / development team telling you anything?
    Thanks,
    John

    Reply to this message 50

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