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Have Your Say appalling changes

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Messages: 51 - 93 of 93
  • Message 51

    , in reply to message 40.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    Absolutely! Bring back the 'recommend' button or do the BBC believe that HYS readers and posters are too stupid to self-regulate and are unable to ignore or complain about nutters when they read them?

    If the House of Commons (Club), the centre of democracy can self-regulate and 'recommend' expenses, why can't Have Your Say have the freedom to 'recommend' too?

    Report message1

  • Message 52

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    Bring back old and popular format of HYS .. or change the name. Why, because tedious blog format has nothing to do with Have Your Say .. it's now just 'Have Your Blog/Blob'?

    Previous format of HYS allowed recommendation or complaint. Now all we have is 'complaint'???

    What I miss most is the 'recommend' option that gave the option to reflect opinion and, if necessary, 'recommend' a more 'reflective and researched opinion'?

    Report message2

  • Message 53

    , in reply to message 47.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    Yes, indeed. How hard can it be to bring back the simple and hugely popular Have Your Say?

    Well, the original HYS involved 'recommend' click. That, apparently upset the BBC. Did any contributor or member of HYS complain to the BBC about HYS?

    No, just the BBC abolishing a very popular site while wasting billions on reconstruction of the palace of British Broadcasting Corporation with no recommendation of HYS whatsoever?

    Report message3

  • Message 54

    , in reply to message 27.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    So what's wrong with knee-jerk rants on HYS?

    Elected politicians operate on knee-jerk rants all the time? The difference is that they are well-paid and get expenses too?

    Report message4

  • Message 55

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    Can it be true? Is it possible that paid BBC editors and bloggers despised the 'original 'Have Your Say' for the people? Unpaid and incisive comments and banded together to dismantle original HYS?

    Not one for conspiracy theories, but was the original 'Have Your Say' with 'recommend' click very unpopular with BBC 'paid' bloggers?



    Report message5

  • Message 56

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    Totally agree with JamesStGeorge.

    (NEW) Have Your Say has nothing to do with (OLD) Have Your Say.

    If HYS members wanted an unpaid and pointless stream of blogs, they would have asked for it?

    Come on BBC, be honest and state your real reason for turning HYS into a blog/blob?

    OK, if there is a remote chance that BBC can maintain it's dignity and accept that the 'original' HYS worked, then go for it? Or, can we assume that BBC has no time for feedback?

    Report message6

  • Message 57

    , in reply to message 24.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    Yes, JohnJ.

    Thank you for re-educating me. But 'web log' is the problem for new HYS, don't you think?

    Report message7

  • Message 58

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    The BBC do not welcome a moderated and, for that matter, a self-regulated site via 'recommend' option that invariably is a popular opinion?

    Popular opinion is not welcome on any BBC message board such as HYS?

    Has it not occurred to those who decided that HYS be turned into a 'blob blog' that extremist opinions were not recommended, but ignored, complained about or HYS members who were up-to-speed, recommended a more balanced and intelligent view of comment discussed?

    Report message8

  • Message 59

    , in reply to message 47.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    Yes, how dare the BBC decide that HYS without a recommend button is the future of opinion.

    Whoops? Forgot. The BBC don't want a recommend or an opinion button ... at all?

    The BBC want - blog/blob all you want, but opinion not allowed to be recommended by contributors??

    Report message9

  • Message 60

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    Absolutely! The 'Editors' who have 'banned' the real and original Have Your Say, have lots to say, but no critic or feedback from HYS members welcome by the 'Editors' or the BBC?

    Get real BBC and BBC 'Editors'? Just re-instate original Have Your Say format.

    What is the BBC problem with original HYS format?

    Report message10

  • Message 61

    , in reply to message 60.

    Posted by JamesStGeorge (U225334) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    What is the BBC problem with original HYS format? 

    Much was wrong with the old format.

    However the core of it the recommendation system was the point of its existence.

    To be fair the new system looks like it solves the deliberate partial moderation timing used with effect on the old HYS.

    It also provides a post number that would have aided debate on the proper HYS.

    Clearly any sane individual trying to improve the HYS system would not have ruined the core object, but added in the direly needed moderation improvements and odd easy little features like post numbers. Retained usable pages of sensible size etc.

    This is not rocket science to conceive how to improve the HYS without destroying its point.

    One has to conclude it is deliberate vandalism for whatever motive.

    Report message11

  • Message 62

    , in reply to message 44.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    DO shut up 'Essential Rabbit' with your dance around semantics, plus your wizzy-dizzy IT ability sexposing your other inabilities?

    Report message12

  • Message 63

    , in reply to message 61.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    Have read this recent post around 6 times? It makes no sense whatsoever .. sounds more like a pointless EU, EN, UNISEF, or any quango nonsense?

    Report message13

  • Message 64

    , in reply to message 62.

    Posted by Essential Rabbit (U3613943) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    DO shut up 'Essential Rabbit' with your dance around semantics, plus your wizzy-dizzy IT ability sexposing your other inabilities? 
    OMG, I have a stalker.smiley - laugh

    I really have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Whoever you are, and I have a strong suspicion about that, you are replying to my response to a new member who asked how to include quotations in a message. Someone was kind enough to explain it to me when I first started using these boards, I was merely passing on the information. Its called being polite, obviously not your strong suit.
    I strongly suggest that you have a little lie down before dinner, because you are obviously over-tired.

    Report message14

  • Message 65

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    Thank you 'AWilliams'.

    The BBC are increasingly disturbed, irritated or object to a BBC moderated, yet self-regulated site with 'recommend' click?

    Does the BBC have a reasoned argument for an unreasonable abolition of original Have Your Say format?

    Report message15

  • Message 66

    , in reply to message 64.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

    Report message16

  • Message 67

    , in reply to message 65.

    Posted by Cyril-Furr (U10382673) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    Don't worry, even this board will be shut down eventually by the BBC...that does not like to hear the truth about itself!.......of course it will be Nu-lab's fault......"shut down a couple of Radio stations & half your internet site....& pass the saved cash to the government - the Licence payer? no, too much trouble to give it to them...we the nu-lab goverment are your masters...do as your told"!

    Report message17

  • Message 68

    , in reply to message 36.

    Posted by Smilie Minogue (U8747614) on Sunday, 28th February 2010

    As someone who works in IT I prefer to simply put it down to arrogant management introducing what they consider to be improvements without bothering to consult their users first - I've seen it happen many times. 

    Interesting that you say that Snooky, given that Nick Reynolds, who works for the BBC in Social Media, says this about "engagement".

    "The traditional BBC way would have been to make a decision in secret, act on it and not tell anyone until afterwards."

    See comment made on February 27 at 8.29pm and apologies for linking to a blog.

    nickreynoldsatwork.w...

    Report message18

  • Message 69

    , in reply to message 41.

    Posted by Nic121 (U14049469) on Monday, 1st March 2010

    Essential Rabbit (U3613943)-

    Firstly i'll make the point that i'm not what you'd call 'pro govt'. I recognise that in fact the govt do get things wrong and certain unethical behaviour does occur in govt from time to time. I do not agree with the govt on a number of policies.

    The point I continue to try and make is that just because a comment is well 'recommended' it doesn't make it factually right or accurate, in which case is does nothing to contribute to sensible and balanced debate...I don't undertstand why this is such a difficult concept for some people?

    I absolutely and 100% agree that we should have fair, honest and balanced debate which includes opinions that I might not necessarily agree with. As long as the BBC mods continue to post a VARIETY of message that look at BOTH sides of the arguement, then free and open debate remains on HYS, albeit in a different format. Reading the comments posted on most recent forums, there appear to be many that disagree and critise govt policy and behaviour, evidence that the BBC remains as impartial as possible.

    People love their conspiracy theories, especially in the run up to an election, but sometimes the reality of the situation is a lot more straight-forward and mundane than people would like to believe i.e. they've changed HYS format to keep it in line with other BBC discussion pages and it's easier to maintain.

    Report message19

  • Message 70

    , in reply to message 69.

    Posted by JamesStGeorge (U225334) on Monday, 1st March 2010

    Message 69 - posted by Nic121 (U14049469)

    It is very very simple. People's opinions do not have to be factually accurate to represent public feeling. This is not some arcane debating society, but a reflection of perceptions and feelings.

    You want accurate detail look at the news reports, they have to have some level of accuracy. Comment does not. It reflects feeling and emotions. HYS or any such system has nothing to do with debating out some resolution some end fact. You want that go to some group of experts and be told what you should feel or think.

    Report message20

  • Message 71

    , in reply to message 70.

    Posted by Nic121 (U14049469) on Monday, 1st March 2010

    JamesStGeorge (U225334) -

    Thanks James, but I can think for myself, it's just that unlike many people I tend to think before I comment, and I tend to base my comments on facts after doing a bit of research...it's not that difficult.

    As i've repeated several times, I have no problem with people who post opinions that differ from mine, on the contrary I welcome them. The point I will continue to make is that the 'most recommended' function does nothing other than perpetuate common myths and leads people to start touting incorrect statics as fact.

    I've been accused on this message board of not wanting to hear or see opinions that differ from mine...but I'd turn that on it's head, and say that it appears many HYSers who are kicking up such a stink about these changes are the ones that don't want to see comments that differ from their own. They want to click on 'most recommend' and see the comments that they do agree with, and bypass or ridicule any comments that they don't.

    Report message21

  • Message 72

    , in reply to message 69.

    Posted by Essential Rabbit (U3613943) on Monday, 1st March 2010

    The point I continue to try and make is that just because a comment is well 'recommended' it doesn't make it factually right or accurate, in which case is does nothing to contribute to sensible and balanced debate...I don't undertstand why this is such a difficult concept for some people? 
    It isn't a difficult concept, it's just plain wrong.
    Many times I have profoundly disagreed with the opinions expressed in the most recommended comments, I have even been shocked and disgusted by some of them. When engrossed in an argument I will happily bang on and on, scream and shout, wave my arms about, to try to convince someone how wrong they are, but I can *never* decide for them what they are allowed to think or feel.

    Report message22

  • Message 73

    , in reply to message 71.

    Posted by JamesStGeorge (U225334) on Monday, 1st March 2010

    Message 71 - posted by Nic121 (U14049469)

    They want to click on 'most recommend' and see the comments that they do agree with, and bypass or ridicule any comments that they don't.
     


    Of Course! It is like voting. Your individual comment is going to be lost and never seen in the sea of voices. So you vote for a party or in this case comment that most matches your views. Of course you bypass those you disagree with, once read far enough to see it is the opposite to your ideas. You might see some reason why others are supporting the wrong idea, which is as far as it can ever go. That is also why I think down voting option is not a good idea. It polarises further, and you can miss what the other angles on an issue are for some people.

    Report message23

  • Message 74

    , in reply to message 73.

    Posted by Nic121 (U14049469) on Monday, 1st March 2010

    Message 73 - posted by JamesStGeorge (U225334) -

    Sometimes someone has a view that is contrary mine, but they put forward such a convincing arguement backed up by fact (not popular myth or anecdotal evidence)that it makes me question my own views and maybe even come around to their way of thinking...as such I actively look for comments that differ from my own.

    I try very hard not to be swayed or influenced purely by popular opinion, so I have no interest in what comments other people agree with most. What interests me is reading a variety of points and making my own mind up.

    I repeat - BBC HYS STILL SHOWS A VARIETY OF COMMENTS BASED ON MANY DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW, SOME ARE PRO-GOVT SOME ARE ANTI-GOVT. WHY DO YOU HAVE SUCH A NEED TO SEE WHICH COMMENTS ARE MOST RECOMMENDED? UNLESS THIS SOMEHOW CHANGES YOUR OWN OPINIONS, IN WHICH CASE YOU ARE INFLUENCED BY POPULAR OPINION AND NOT YOUR OWN MIND.

    Report message24

  • Message 75

    , in reply to message 74.

    Posted by Essential Rabbit (U3613943) on Monday, 1st March 2010

    Upper case is just impolite, you can count me out of this discussion.

    Report message25

  • Message 76

    , in reply to message 75.

    Posted by Nic121 (U14049469) on Monday, 1st March 2010

    Message 75 - posted by Essential Rabbit (U3613943)-

    I apologise if you were offended by me writing in upper case...it wasn't my intention to be in anyway impolite. I was only trying highlight the main point i've been trying to make since I started this thread...but like I said, I still apologise to anyone who has been offended by my use of capitals.

    Report message26

  • Message 77

    , in reply to message 9.

    Posted by anncbd (U14352966) on Monday, 1st March 2010

    I attempted to reply to this message about the dire changes to HYS, but before I could do so was asked to agree to a whole list of conditions - George Orwell must be laughing. I will be very surpised if this passes the moderators (censors). But, what I want to say is that the changes to HYS are abysmall, little apparatchniks imposing their views on the rest of us.

    Report message27

  • Message 78

    , in reply to message 68.

    Posted by Faye Tsar (U1683210) on Monday, 1st March 2010



    As someone who works in IT I prefer to simply put it down to arrogant management introducing what they consider to be improvements without bothering to consult their users first - I've seen it happen many times. 

    Interesting that you say that Snooky, given that Nick Reynolds, who works for the BBC in Social Media, says this about "engagement".

    "The traditional BBC way would have been to make a decision in secret, act on it and not tell anyone until afterwards."

    See comment made on February 27 at 8.29pm and apologies for linking to a blog.

    nickreynoldsatwork.w... 


    What an incredible thing for someone from the BBC to admit Nippie. Of course another traditional BBC way it to have a consultation and ignore every suggestion the Beeb receives and do what they wanted to do in the first place anyway.

    Report message28

  • Message 79

    , in reply to message 78.

    Posted by Essential Rabbit (U3613943) on Monday, 1st March 2010

    You couldn't make it up!.
    Alex_host has just closed a thread which had drited off topic, with a link to HYS!
    Don't know whether to laugh or cry.

    Report message29

  • Message 80

    , in reply to message 78.

    Posted by A Williams (U5976897) on Tuesday, 2nd March 2010

    Not just the BBC that has reviews and consultations then goes and does what it was always going to do regardless, it seem to be a common Government Department approach.

    Report message30

  • Message 81

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Tuesday, 2nd March 2010

    Message #5. Sue Denim.

    Thank you Sue. Whatever the perceived 'failings' assumed by the BBC of 'original' HYS; or suggested 'hi-jacking by some groups' - at least everyone had the option to 'recommend', ignore or counter-argue, or 'counter-recommend' extreme views?

    It's true, many uninformed comments were recommended, but many more concise and insightful views were too. Plus, the format was user-friendly and 500 limit honed submission of comment.

    Therefore, no excuse, or proven argument for removing 'recommend' option on HYS.

    Report message31

  • Message 82

    , in reply to message 81.

    Posted by GZ (U5310554) on Tuesday, 2nd March 2010

    While I also much preferred the old format on the HYS threads.

    The "most reccommended" posts were often the very first posts made as well.

    One could click on the "reccommend" button at any time.

    But in order to have your own person opinion on the subject appear it had to wait in a moderation queue - at minimum for hours - at longest for well over a day.

    As soon as any HYS topic had been up a while you would see "replies posted 592" followed by "replies awaiting moderation 1123"

    There were usually many more posts awaiting moderation than had actually been posted.

    Meanwhile, the posts in the "most reccommended" tab kept getting vote after vote after vote, many times just because they were at the front of the list and many posters didnt have time to scan through all of the other posts.

    By the time a new post got on, the thread would close before it could build up any steam and tally up a representative amount of reccommendations of its own.

    In all honesty, many of the "Most Reccommended" posts where the ones that were most reccommended out of timing rather than content.

    Report message32

  • Message 83

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Snotty (U14365493) on Tuesday, 2nd March 2010

    Have Your Say has had appalling changes. Now it is just a blog style.

    Clearly this is deliberately done with all the non BBC approved views being the most recommended on the previous system. Just as the election looms. What a coincidence.
     


    Exactly.

    The left-wing biased and politically correct BBC has been cutting down the opportunities for the people, who pay its License Tax, to contribute to the debate.

    The Today messageboards were weakened and then removed, the Radio 5 Live News messageboards were removed and now Have Your Say has been made unusable.

    The BBC don't seem to like the people's view point. The sooner the BBC is either closed down or brought under control the better.

    Report message33

  • Message 84

    , in reply to message 82.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Wednesday, 3rd March 2010

    #82 'Guitarzan'

    Yes, I agree that some posts were overly 'recommended' as moderation queue was enormous? That was shabby.

    However, I suggest that the 'run down' of old HYS that enabled, what you fairly described, was deliberate 'by neglect' in preparation long before new HYS format raised it's tedious head?

    Report message34

  • Message 85

    , in reply to message 84.

    Posted by GZ (U5310554) on Wednesday, 3rd March 2010

    Yes, could very well be corum populo.

    It seemed that on average, there were 2 or 3 new HYS topics started each day, along with another 1 or 2 other HYS topics previously opened, but still taking new postings.

    In all, that equals thousands of replies every day.

    I dont know what sort of moderation screening process the posts went through - whether it be automated screenings looking for key words that would violate the house rules - or actual reading and screening by staff.

    If it was the human factor, maybe it just became too much in its old form and that is why it switched to blog form.

    Report message35

  • Message 86

    , in reply to message 85.

    Posted by A Williams (U5976897) on Thursday, 4th March 2010

    The BBC trust is having a public consultation on "Getting the best out of the BBC for licence fee payers", the survey can be found at

    https://consultatio...

    This is a very usefull survey in which to raise concerns over the BBC's online policies.

    Funny how there has not been much reporting on this survey on the BBC? Almost like they do not want the public completing the BBC Trust consultation survey.

    Report message36

  • Message 87

    , in reply to message 83.

    Posted by Surabaya Johnny (U1163609) on Thursday, 4th March 2010

    Snotty

    //The left-wing biased and politically correct BBC//

    I wouldn't say it was particularly "left wing", but perhaps any "liberal" bias on the BBC is simply reflective of the views of the general poulation.

    Report message37

  • Message 88

    , in reply to message 87.

    Posted by JamesStGeorge (U225334) on Thursday, 4th March 2010

    My complaint has been logged in their 'audience log' circulated daily to top BBC staff and the Web team responsible.


    The more they get officially logged the more they may see they have got it wrong!

    Complain, complain, complain!

    Report message38

  • Message 89

    , in reply to message 43.

    Posted by z (U9984902) on Friday, 5th March 2010

    As for the "Changes to Have Your Say":
    There are no REAL changes as they have just degenerated it into the 'bog (I KNOW how to spell blog) OF journalists' (!) instead of HYS which was OUR place!
     


    The development of HYS was always a device adopted by the BBC to take control of the agenda and selectively censor content.

    As a new user of these boards you will not be aware of the brave experiment that the BBC did I suppose about ten years ago now.

    The board format allowed discussion of 'any' issue and the agenda was not controlled by bureaucrats at the BBC.

    A resume of what they did is in that thread I quoted.

    Unfortunately someone told them to stop it! They are afterall in the government's pocket, and they were very afraid of what the Blair coterie did to them.

    It is just a matter now of closing these boards down as this is the last bastion where people can actually get at the BBC.

    Actually the BBC shot itself in the foot by preventing people discussing the affairs of the day without censorship.

    Now the only thing left to discuss is how useless the BBC forums are i.e. the BBC takes the stick in its capacity as the government's whipping boy.

    If I was the DG I wouldn't be too happy about that, but then he's got his pension and knighthood to think aboutsmiley - biggrin

    Report message39

  • Message 90

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by old codger (U14116003) on Friday, 5th March 2010

    is this their way of gagging the public ,then they can claim no complaints ,or are they cowtowing to political demands of no critisism,

    Report message40

  • Message 91

    , in reply to message 6.

    Posted by passmeachocolate (U14350026) on Monday, 8th March 2010

    <quote> Others HYS comments simply were held back until such a time where they'd be buried under a load of newer comments or magically got approved in time for the topic to close says everything. Not to mention the comments rejected despite not breaking house rules.</quote>

    These two mechanisms have been used constantly by the moderators of HYS to manipulate and distort apparent public opinion to better support the BBC's unashamed pro-government agenda </quote>

    Indeed the moderators use this devise on all the boards , 'temporarily' hiding posts that do not break the rules but which offer effective argument against their PC line, only to reappear sometimes days later by which time the thread has moved on several pages and there is little chance of them being read.

    BBC moderators are incredibly sneaky in their tactics.

    Report message41

  • Message 92

    , in reply to message 90.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Monday, 8th March 2010

    Complain and complain again.

    Points of View has this message board. But so far have failed to respond and advertise, at all, it's next program at on what day and time?

    Until Points of View as, a license-paid program respond sooner rather than later at the complaints about changes in Have Your Say, then perhaps we can assume BBC are gearing up for Tory cuts or more Labour censorship?

    Poacher or gamekeeper? The BBC are wealthy by income-stream, selling popular license paid programs globally - yet have destroyed the economic Have Your Say site by removing 'recommend' click - not through economic reasons, but purely political jobsworth?

    Report message42

  • Message 93

    , in reply to message 90.

    Posted by corum-populo-2010 (U14355249) on Monday, 8th March 2010

    The whole point of original HYS was comments could be 'recommended' by members, counter-argued or counter-recommend by more insightful comments.

    No, original HYS format wasn't perfect - but that was the democratic beauty of it?

    Yes, some original HYS format subjects were abused by 'nutters' or extreme views?

    So what, similar (paid) abuse happens during PMQs weekly?

    NO EXCUSE TO ELIMINATE 'recommend' option as explained above.



    Report message43

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