BBC Television programmes  permalink

Loodwig of Baa-varia ?

This discussion has been closed.

Messages: 1 - 21 of 21
  • Message 1. 

    Posted by Geoff Robinson (U14287061) on Tuesday, 2nd July 2013

    What preposterous pronunciation by Darn Crickshark on tonight's showing
    of King Ludwig II's castles ! He completely ruined the voice-over by his
    ridiculous mispronunciations. Loodvig ? Was he punning Lewdvig ?
    In German Ludwig goes along with our Should-vig, with a deep Northern U.
    Where the hell did he get Loodvig from ?
    It sounds like he spent too long in the bar Bar-Varia maybe. Baa-varia ?
    Any football supporter could tell you it's Bayern, pronounced Bye-yern,
    known in English as Bavaria ( stress on the second silly-bull ).
    Have the cuts meant that the BBC have got rid of the Pronunciation
    Advisory Department ? If so, a cut too far, I think.
    But, Dam Croakskank apart, it was a wonderful look at those beautiful if
    not authetic castles which many know only from the Disney themepark
    looka likes. Good on yer, Ludwig. Thanks, mate.

    Report message1

  • Message 2

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Eamonn_Shute (U14223612) on Tuesday, 2nd July 2013

    DC's diction still needs some work, but it is not as bad as it used to be. And why the stage whisper instead of proper speech? Apart from that it was an interesting programme.

    Report message2

  • Message 3

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by noviomagus (U9545153) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    What preposterous pronunciation by Darn Crickshark on tonight's showing
    of King Ludwig II's castles ! He completely ruined the voice-over by his
    ridiculous mispronunciations. Loodvig ? Was he punning Lewdvig ?
    In German Ludwig goes along with our Should-vig, with a deep Northern U.
    Where the hell did he get Loodvig from ?
    It sounds like he spent too long in the bar Bar-Varia maybe. Baa-varia ?
    Any football supporter could tell you it's Bayern, pronounced Bye-yern,
    known in English as Bavaria ( stress on the second silly-bull ).
    Have the cuts meant that the BBC have got rid of the Pronunciation
    Advisory Department ? If so, a cut too far, I think.
    But, Dam Croakskank apart, it was a wonderful look at those beautiful if
    not authetic castles which many know only from the Disney themepark
    looka likes. Good on yer, Ludwig. Thanks, mate. 
    Well said Geoff, curled toes in our house in what we thought BAAH varia on each occasion. But,as you rightly say, an excellent programme about King Ludwig and places we've visited over the years.

    Report message3

  • Message 4

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Portly (U1381981) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    I think this illustrates why we English have acquired the reputation of being "bad at languages." It's an attitude that if you can't get it exactly right, you shouldn't try it. Very few people with English as their mother tongue will have perfect command of German pronunciation.

    How important was it for Dan to pronounce the German perfectly? Well, I would say that if you were preparing a checklist of 50 abilities one was seeking in a presenter of the programme, German pronunciation would come 50th. smiley - smiley

    Report message4

  • Message 5

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by zelda (U2012536) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    I didn't see the programme - did he visit Herren Cheimsee and Neuschwanstein?

    Amazing place Cheimsee.

    Report message5

  • Message 6

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by heterodox (U14291406) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    'What preposterous pronunciation by Darn Crickshark ....'

    Not with you entirely on this one but it is annoying when someone who presents an arts programme doesn't know the meaning of the word 'crescendo'. 'Ho-mo sexual' could do with a bit of work as well.
    Apart from that this was a pleasant enough hour looking at the work of someone who couldn't see the difference between art and excess. Ludwig should have stepped outside, listened to a blackbird singing (if they have them in Bavaria) and then set about matching the song's simple beauty.
    As it was he produced, in my opinion, interiors of suffocating vulgarity. If he wasn't a lunatic he will do until someone even crazier comes along and I suppose this is the risk you take if you rely on a hereditary monarchy.

    Report message6

  • Message 7

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Walrus (U2154212) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    I have avoided Mr C's programmes because of his phoney whisper. I could never hear or understand what he said. The very worst of presenters imo. Never watch.

    Report message7

  • Message 8

    , in reply to message 7.

    Posted by Stokey Sue (U14258170) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    I have avoided Mr C's programmes because of his phoney whisper. I could never hear or understand what he said. The very worst of presenters imo. Never watch.  I don't know why you thnk his voice is "phoney" - that's just how he talks

    Human variability, and I don't think he has much option, given he's been talking like that for over half a century, as far as I can tell

    I like Dan Cruickshank and enjoyed the programme, but Bar-varia and Loodvig, sometimes Ludovic (not even consistent) did grate

    As for Chiemsee....

    Report message8

  • Message 9

    , in reply to message 8.

    Posted by caissier (U14073060) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    Dan is knowledgeable and well-placed to comment on architecture, he's likeable and he's not 28. He's always had an unconscious exaggerated manner of speaking but I'm guessing he's been told to gee it up to fit in with the Age of the Modern Presenter.

    Report message9

  • Message 10

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by noviomagus (U9545153) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    I think this illustrates why we English have acquired the reputation of being "bad at languages." It's an attitude that if you can't get it exactly right, you shouldn't try it. Very few people with English as their mother tongue will have perfect command of German pronunciation.

    How important was it for Dan to pronounce the German perfectly? Well, I would say that if you were preparing a checklist of 50 abilities one was seeking in a presenter of the programme, German pronunciation would come 50th. smiley - smiley 
    Looking at the i player round the six minute mark, you might want to check ou thow the (German) Curator of the Castle pronounces 'Bavaria'.

    Report message10

  • Message 11

    , in reply to message 10.

    Posted by weesnowball (U5509747) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    I was all set to watch this until I saw that it starred Desperately Whispering Dan. Is he still wearing the "a' look at me" battered Panama hat and Arafat scarf?

    Report message11

  • Message 12

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by Chris Rogers (U10129711) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    Very few people with English as their mother tongue will have perfect command of German pronunciation 

    Really? Leaving aside the inevitable regional/dialectic variations, standard German is probably the easiest language ever to learn to pronounce - the rules are few and unchanging and can be taught in 5 minutes

    Report message12

  • Message 13

    , in reply to message 10.

    Posted by Stokey Sue (U14258170) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    I think this illustrates why we English have acquired the reputation of being "bad at languages." It's an attitude that if you can't get it exactly right, you shouldn't try it. Very few people with English as their mother tongue will have perfect command of German pronunciation.

    How important was it for Dan to pronounce the German perfectly? Well, I would say that if you were preparing a checklist of 50 abilities one was seeking in a presenter of the programme, German pronunciation would come 50th. smiley - smiley 
    Looking at the i player round the six minute mark, you might want to check ou thow the (German) Curator of the Castle pronounces 'Bavaria'. 
    Of course the Germans don't pronounce it Bavaria except when speaking English, since they call it Bayern

    But there is an aceepted standard for how it is pronuonced in English and that is whst Gerhardt (the curator) used - and got Bar-varia back in return smiley - doh

    As someone who speaks a little German I did find it very irritating

    Report message13

  • Message 14

    , in reply to message 12.

    Posted by SATM67 (U14061947) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    Very few people with English as their mother tongue will have perfect command of German pronunciation 

    Really? Leaving aside the inevitable regional/dialectic variations, standard German is probably the easiest language ever to learn to pronounce - the rules are few and unchanging and can be taught in 5 minutes 
    It is highly debatable if the rules can be taught in 5 minutes.
    Even if true, it takes a lot longer to learn their application.
    For example, is a given word Masculine, Feminine, or Neuter requiring Der, Die, or Das.

    Report message14

  • Message 15

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by Owen Herring (U2135393) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    Very few people with English as their mother tongue will have perfect command of German pronunciation 

    Really? Leaving aside the inevitable regional/dialectic variations, standard German is probably the easiest language ever to learn to pronounce - the rules are few and unchanging and can be taught in 5 minutes 
    It is highly debatable if the rules can be taught in 5 minutes.
    Even if true, it takes a lot longer to learn their application.
    For example, is a given word Masculine, Feminine, or Neuter requiring Der, Die, or Das. 
    Pronunciation of German is easy - 5 minutes is reasonable, especially if you're starting out with a Scottish accent.

    Grammar is another matter entirely.

    It seemed to me that Mr Cruickshank was adopting the old-fashioned 'I'm English, so I will render your funny foreign words in any way I like' attitude - though he was rendering a few English words quite oddly too. I wouldn't be surprised if he still calls that large city in France 'Lions'.

    Report message15

  • Message 16

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by Chris Rogers (U10129711) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    Er, as Owen rightly (thanks) points out, German pronunciation can indeed be taught in 5 mins, German GRAMMAR is an entirely different issue and does take much much longer (16 ways of saying 'the' that I learned, and there's more)

    Report message16

  • Message 17

    , in reply to message 8.

    Posted by Chris Rogers (U10129711) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    Having now actually seen the prog, I have to agree that his pronunciation of Loodwig and - especially - BARvaria were astonishingly annoying, given both came up every minute. Mind you, since he pronounces 'create' as 'crate', we shouldn't be too shocked.

    And he 'jazz hands' turn at about 43mins in made me laugh out loud - it was more like Kenny Everett's Brother Lee Love.

    Report message17

  • Message 18

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    Fascinating programme - though familiar with Neuschwanstein, I knew little about Ludwig and had no idea about his other creations. A great revelation!

    Dan Cruickshank's mysterious whispering (as if he was worried he might disturb the ghost of the King!) was irritating, but not half so distracting as "Baa-varia"! Extraordinary!

    Report message18

  • Message 19

    , in reply to message 18.

    Posted by caissier (U14073060) on Wednesday, 3rd July 2013

    Very possibly Dan is naturally in the tradition of Brian Horrocks, Magnus Pyke, maybe , Huw Weldon, even John Betjeman ..... lyrically possessed by the spirit of their beloved subject which they try to theatrically express in the style of .... Henry Irving? - zany daffy dusty ancient professor types, playing to their students in a comical style of old. Stephen Fry affectionately sent it up with his Professor Donald Cornwallis Treadway Trefusis (1921–2008) character. Dan could tone it down a bit however and still keep the effect.

    Otherwise, though a bit awesome-ish in places, this was actually pretty good, compared to typical efforts nowadays

    Report message19

  • Message 20

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by William Blessing (U14578406) on Thursday, 4th July 2013

    I've just had the pleasure of watching this excellent production. Dan Cruickshank is in my opinion a thoroughly entertaining and knowledgeable host enlightening us of the historical and political framework in which the Prince lived. Once again my thanks to the BBC.

    On i player until Thursday 11th July.

    www.bbc.co.uk/iplaye...

    Report message20

  • Message 21

    , in reply to message 20.

    Posted by Peta (U24) on Thursday, 4th July 2013

    And on tonight

    Today
    22:30
    BBC Four

    Report message21

Back to top

About this Board

The Points of View team invite you to discuss BBC Television programmes.

Add basic Smileys or extra Smileys to your posts.

Questions? Check the BBC FAQ for answers first!

Go to: BBC News Have your say to discuss topics in the news

Make a complaint? Go to the BBC complaints website.

BBC News: Off-topic for this board, so contact them directly with your feedback: Contact BBC News

or register to take part in a discussion.


The message board is currently closed for posting.


Mon-Sat: 0900-2300
Sun: 1000-2300

This messageboard is reactively moderated.

Find out more about this board's House Rules

Search this Board

Recent Discussions

Copyright © 2014 BBC. The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.

This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.