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How to Get to Heaven with the Hutterites

Messages: 1 - 29 of 29
  • Message 1. 

    Posted by Ceiderduck (U14588518) on Thursday, 7th March 2013


    Tonight, BBC2, at 9. Looking forward to this:

    www.bbc.co.uk/progra...

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  • Message 2

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    Posted by Peta (U24) on Thursday, 7th March 2013


    DURATION: 1 HOUR
    An intimate insight into the world of the Hutterites, a Christian community who believe living communally and separate from what they call 'the world' is the route to heaven. But living like this is not easy. With exclusive access, the film follows one young man secretly running away from his community.


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  • Message 3

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    Posted by Ceiderduck (U14588518) on Thursday, 7th March 2013

    Just stumbled over this too:

    www.bbc.co.uk/news/m...

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  • Message 4

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    Posted by Guv-nor (U7476305) ** on Thursday, 7th March 2013

    I'm recording it, should be good.

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  • Message 5

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    Posted by Turner (U14992668) on Thursday, 7th March 2013

    I'm watching, and it's thoroughly depressing me.

    At least the Amish and some other of these 'let's segregate from the rest of the world' communities have real faith and ideas behind their ways of living, and seem to retain some joie de vivre. These people have no real answers, the only one with a saying is the the old bloke at the top, and the women are treated as little more than servants.
    No wonder they all look so miserable - men, women, children, all of them.

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  • Message 6

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    Posted by beatxt (U14042175) on Thursday, 7th March 2013

    I've seen this before - I just said to OH.
    It's new - came the reply
    No. Amish, Shakers ... ? seems to be the same old same old.

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  • Message 7

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    Posted by zen cat (U14877400) on Thursday, 7th March 2013

    I'm watching, and it's thoroughly depressing me.  
    I avoided watching this because I knew it would be depressing. Five minutes would be too much time to say all you need to know about these people. A whole hour devoted to delusional saddos is too much, IMO.

    Luckily, the cricket is on the radio. smiley - smiley

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  • Message 8

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    Posted by beatxt (U14042175) on Thursday, 7th March 2013

    Luckily?..."Thoroughly depressing" and England's cricket performance are also bedfellows, unless things have improved a lot since I heard yesterday's scores!!

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  • Message 9

    , in reply to message 7.

    Posted by Turner (U14992668) on Thursday, 7th March 2013

    You know, I'm fascinated by people that have the courage to create and live in alternative societies, and although I know most of these are nothing but utopian dreams, I have a lot of time for them (isn't our society utopian too, really?). But they have to be based on something more than patriarchal traditions, ignorance and fear for the dream to even have a chance to work out or be attractive - not to us but the people involved themselves.

    I'm trying not to be judgemental about these people, but it's really, really hard.

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  • Message 10

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    Posted by PetPig (U9766236) on Thursday, 7th March 2013

    'Soulless' is the word that sums up these people. They all seem to have lost the will to live. Odd that the only member of the colony who ever cracks a smile is the man in charge!
    The young men can't wait to escape, the young women are browbeaten into a complete lack of curiosity about 'the world'.
    Miserable, miserable lives. Amazing what religion can do to people.

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  • Message 11

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    Posted by bootjangler (U880875) ** on Thursday, 7th March 2013

    It really could have done without that high-pitched chinese water torture type music near the end.

    Blimey, too much.

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  • Message 12

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    Posted by Turner (U14992668) on Thursday, 7th March 2013

    Actually, I'm glad I watched this in the end.
    Not just because of the rather predictable 'redemptive' ending, in which we're shown that the human spirit can overcome the hardest of obstacles and *can* bloom in the unlikeliest of circumstances, but also because programmes like this inevitably end up being more about the viewer him/herself and their beliefs and choices made in life than the subjects portrayed.

    My brain is whirring with questions and reflections about my own life after watching this... and if other viewers have ended up entertaining similar thoughts, then the doc will have proved to be successful, in my opinion.


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  • Message 13

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    Posted by zen cat (U14877400) on Thursday, 7th March 2013

    ...programmes like this inevitably end up being more about the viewer him/herself and their beliefs and choices made in life than the subjects portrayed.  
    I disagree strongly. They have nothing to do with me, my beliefs, or the choices I make.

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  • Message 14

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    Posted by Markdallison (U15640604) on Thursday, 7th March 2013

    Does anyone what the music was at the end of the show?

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  • Message 15

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    Posted by Ed of Global Integrated Vision (U8471561) on Thursday, 7th March 2013

    A vocalised version of the Intermezzo Sinfonico from the opera Cavalleria Rusticana by Pietro Mascagni. Don't know who sung it.

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  • Message 16

    , in reply to message 13.

    Posted by Turner (U14992668) on Thursday, 7th March 2013

    ...programmes like this inevitably end up being more about the viewer him/herself and their beliefs and choices made in life than the subjects portrayed.  
    I disagree strongly. They have nothing to do with me, my beliefs, or the choices I make. 


    Not literally, Zencat. Obviously I'm not talking about being tempted to go and join a cult or renounce all earthly pleasures.
    But I think this kind of programme will cause all but the most obtuse of viewers to ponder on personal beliefs and choices we have (or have not) made, like individual v. collective interest in society, personal choice and responsibility, whether to rebel or conform, and even just the concepts of chance and randomness of birth and how do we respond to that.

    I wonder how many of us for example, had we been born in similar circumstances, would have the courage to leave everything and everyone we've always known and loved behind just to have a taste of freedom, like the young photographer featured? Hmm.

    As I say, thought-provoking stuff. Watch the programme, you'll know what I mean - hopefully!

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  • Message 17

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by mittens (U1435246) on Thursday, 7th March 2013

    Does anyone what the music was at the end of the show?
     
    It was "Hallelujah" - Jeff Buckley smiley - smiley

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  • Message 18

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    Posted by fourthelephant (U15487252) on Friday, 8th March 2013

    Felt very sorry for the kids, even the compliant ones, being taught that the outside world was an evil place full of sinners. If adults want to chose that life, that's their choice, but kids should be given the big picture and allowed to make their own choice. Sad how a lot of people who left, couldn't cope and tended to drift back. Not surprising though, considering their upbringing.

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  • Message 19

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    Posted by Ceiderduck (U14588518) on Friday, 8th March 2013

    But I think this kind of programme will cause all but the most obtuse of viewers to ponder on personal beliefs and choices we have (or have not) made, like individual v. collective interest in society, personal choice and responsibility, whether to rebel or conform, and even just the concepts of chance and randomness of birth and how do we respond to that.
     


    Not necessarily. I can easily watch something like this out of interest in the people themselves and their beliefs alone, without needing to reflect on my own life. I have enough opportunities for that. I watch these programmes so I can learn something about other people/cultures etc, not to compare myself to them. This does not, by any means, make me 'obtuse', or anyone else for that matter.

    Mind you, I've not watched it yet smiley - whistle

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  • Message 20

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by Reservoir Hamster (U14288323) on Friday, 8th March 2013

    One of the women said something to the effect that she didn't have to worry about anything, getting food, or anything like like that. Yes, exactly. They remain essentially babies. Only by engaging with the big bad world do you actually grow as a person, you are forced to make moral choices, and your character forms. The idea of a utopian commune has its appeal of course but you often find that, especially in religious communities like this one, the inhabitants are weak, bland, stupid and uninteresting.

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  • Message 21

    , in reply to message 20.

    Posted by the_cleaner (U3423083) ** on Friday, 8th March 2013

    Like the Amish, but with BIG Tractors.smiley - biggrin

    Dinner Time looked like Hell on Earth.smiley - yikes
    Loved the Prams {box with wheels}.smiley - ok


    Pleased for Kelly and his Sister, who got out/escaped.smiley - bubbly

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  • Message 22

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by dwilco (U15641389) on Friday, 8th March 2013

    How to get to Heaven with the Hutterites, by Lynn Alleway, was not just a disappointment. It was an unpleasant and shallow look at a community, of which the filmmaker evidently does not approve, but is not honest enough to put her judgements out in the open.

    After watching this, I knew little of real significance about the Hutterites, their religious philosophy, how they differ from other Anabaptists such as Amish, Mennonites, etc., or how they came to be. What we got was prurient interest wedded to snide disapproval of the Hutterites' choices of economy, gender roles, and so on, but without any examination of the filmmaker's stance by way of fair comparison.

    The filmmaker dwelt on several selected customs of the community. In one scene, men lean around the corner of the room where the elders are meeting, asking for time off to go to town on business. Has the filmmaker never seen this in an office, where ordinary workers have to ask the boss's permission to absent themselves for personal business? Yes, it may be demeaning, but not peculiar to this community. Likewise, there was a trip to the larders, where permission to extract foodstuffs had to be obtained. "Isn't that awful?" Alleway implies. But can the filmmaker waltz into the nearest Tesco and waltz out with food? No, because in each economic system there are rules. And, it may not be irrelevant to notice that while these people looked well-fed, I could not see any examples of obesity. Perhaps there is more than one reason the food is distributed as it is. The film observes the community meals, but doesn't get past the seating arrangements. I would have liked to know more about these habits. Why were they eating in silence?

    The briefest mention was made of Internet access. I think they have it, but control what is seen. Well, this is an issue in any society, since there is plenty there to warp young minds in all sorts of ways. But the parameters of Hutterite Internet use were not examined. That would have been informative and relevant.

    Most especially telling of the filmmaker's biased intent was the sequence where a young man "runs away", leaving the community to join his sister in the city. Someone mounted a video recorder to his bike, and recorded the reunion and trip away from the farm. Titles appeared with the time of 7am. (Shockingly early, perhaps, for the film-maker - but well into the day not only for farmers, but many working people in North America) Perhaps this event would have taken place exactly when and how it did regardless of the filmmaker, but a reasonable person might ask to what extent the filmmaker was the catalyst for the leave-taking. What was said off-camera? The choice of music to accompany this scene - Jeff Buckley's whiney cover of "Halleluja" - was just way over the top. But maybe it was Ms. Alleway who was singing praises to the Lord for giving her the scene she prayed would happen for her film?

    It seems to me that the community elders are right to be reticent about letting outsiders in to gawk, or in this case, sneer. I wouldn't want to live there, but that's not the point. Apart from old-fashioned gender roles, and what some may find the claustrophobic aspects of village life, these people seemed pretty harmless. Was there any evidence of abuse of personal power? Stockpiles of weaponry? Prosthletising or financial chicanery like that found in other cults? It doesn't seem so.

    In sum, this documentary was not far short of a hatchet-job on a community that seeks to live in a certain way, in accordance with their religious traditions. The deeper meanings and history of their community were passed over, in favour of a superficial and snide hour of bad intent. If Ms. Alleway wants to give somebody or some group a kicking, there is no shortage of odious people around to expose. But they mightn't be as passive as the Hutterites.

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  • Message 23

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    Posted by Max Lyrical (U14666069) on Friday, 8th March 2013

    Well obviously there was absolutely nothing of note or even educational value across the choice of 30-something 'free' channels last night for me to enjoy, so thought I'd settle in to watching a documentary on a collective people I'd never heard about and went into this expecting something Amish-esque what-with-women-in-bonnets-and-no-TV-and-beards-with-no-moustaches. It delivered in spades. I've been left.... uneasy. Ok, let's really punctuate this. 'How To Get To Heaven With The Hutterites' was the single most depressing, abstract and trappist thing I have watched in my entire adult life thus far - and I remember Keith Chegwin gadding around stark-bollock naked on a Channel 5 gameshow a few years back. At the same time I strangely value seeing doc's like this - they're somewhat life-affirming and give our Race a different facet.

    One could argue that this particular 'colony' came across as a sexist, suppressed agricultural business relying on free child labour within a groundhog day scenario that only pays each 'family' $4 a week and hiding behind the guise of religion to give its' inhabitants some kind of hope and constructiveness. So smite me for my cynicism. I find it hard to swallow any 'religion' whereby even leading elders can't answer questions regarding the saddening segregation of men, women and children at mealtimes, for example. "It's always been this way" doesn't cut it with me, I'm afraid.

    I'd like to have seen a broader cross-section of Hutterite life. This particular filming concentrated on one single 'colony' and may well leave the viewer tarring the entire 'movement' with the same brush. Like me. I'm tarring it all with the same brush and proud. Yes sir.

    Apparantly, there are nearer 50,000 Hutterites on the go. That's a lot of huttering. Maybe that's what the grown-ups call their 'special times' of an evening after re-sewing their evil iPads back into the underside of their mattresses. Lot's of third-cousin lovin' shenanigans going on in last nights 'show' folks. But then, who needs an equal number of X and Y chromosomes in a world that ends as far as the eye can see and there's nothing but battery-produced eggs to stack and stainless steel kitchen units to degrease over-and-over-and-over until Heaven beckons...

    I'd like to say this was backward. I'd ultimately like to say that the evil side of man can even creep into a pacifist movement whereby women have no say on any matter, live a life of subservience and relinquish any free-thinking and personal development. This was utterly joyless. Utterly, utterly joyless and has carried with me all day since last night like a dark, shapeless shadow forever in the corner of my peripheral vision. I'm a day closer to death and now scientifically 2.3 times more scared of life. This could be a beautiful world. 'tis sad, huh?

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  • Message 24

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    Posted by tumteatum (U15488526) on Friday, 8th March 2013

    Completely agree with you. I thought there was a nasty, cynical undercurrent to the film and it wasn't Hutterites.

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  • Message 25

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    Posted by bristoled93 (U14837130) on Friday, 8th March 2013

    Does anyone know the music in the middle of the program.

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  • Message 26

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    Posted by Sandstrom (U14413284) on Friday, 8th March 2013

    Does anyone know the music in the middle of the program.  Probably find the answere here www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...

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  • Message 27

    , in reply to message 15.

    Posted by Markdallison (U15640604) on Saturday, 9th March 2013

    A vocalised version of the Intermezzo Sinfonico from the opera Cavalleria Rusticana by Pietro Mascagni. Don't know who sung it.  Thank you very much for this. We've been searching for years for this as it was one of my mother in laws favourites and we wanted to play it at her funeral ut never new what it was.

    Wife is happy and sad at the same time.

    Thanks again

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  • Message 28

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by Turner (U14992668) on Monday, 11th March 2013

    But I think this kind of programme will cause all but the most obtuse of viewers to ponder on personal beliefs and choices we have (or have not) made, like individual v. collective interest in society, personal choice and responsibility, whether to rebel or conform, and even just the concepts of chance and randomness of birth and how do we respond to that.
     


    Not necessarily. I can easily watch something like this out of interest in the people themselves and their beliefs alone, without needing to reflect on my own life. I have enough opportunities for that. I watch these programmes so I can learn something about other people/cultures etc, not to compare myself to them. This does not, by any means, make me 'obtuse', or anyone else for that matter.

    Mind you, I've not watched it yet smiley - whistle 


    Yeah, it was probably the wrong choice of words on my part, and I *do* have an over-active imagination and tendency to philosophize - or navel-gaze, depending on your point of view... smiley - laugh
    But I just can't watch a documentary about people with a strictly anthropological eye, because I find the human condition is basically the same for all of us, whichever mad situation accident of birth or fate has thrown us in, so one's person path in life inevitably makes me think of mine or that of those normally consider 'normal' in Western society, and I think consciously or unconsciously we all do this... but I digress.

    Anyway, did you watch, Sparrow? What did you think?

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  • Message 29

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    Posted by Ceiderduck (U14588518) on Tuesday, 12th March 2013

    I did eventually watch it on Friday night (rock n roll, I know), and did find myself thinking about my own way of life.....ie, I am glad I don't live there. I'm grateful for my freedom to think and chose a career, as a woman, that doesn't revolve round cleaning and child rearing. I can visit places, content in the knowledge that I won't fall prey to the nasties out there (though I do love the pub and cinema).

    I find it baffling that a community, so secure in their faith and way of life, should be so terrified of the outside world and all its temptations....surely God created it all, and these people should be able to "resist" what is thrown at them? What about helping the poor and less fortunate? Cloistering themselves away like that really doesn't seem to a Christian ideal, does it?

    For all their tractors, electricity and modern gadgetry, they even make the Amish seem more worldly. At least they have Rumspringa smiley - erm

    The whole "community watches everyone else" sent a shiver up my spine. Genuinely a worst nightmare of mine.

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