BBC Television programmes permalink
Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 1.
Posted by Phil-ap (U13637313) on Wednesday, 20th February 2013
This is the Radio Times description. A dramatised documentary, looks interesting.
Blameless banker and upright citizen Thomas Briggs secured a sad little niche in history as the victim of the first murder committed on a British train. Murder on the Victorian Railway, using court testimony, statements and newspaper accounts spoken by actors, pieces together the police investigation that led to the hanging of a young German tailor.
It’s an absorbing crime story dappled by elements of social history and anyone who enjoyed The Suspicions of Mr Whicher will be rapt by the details of the inquiry, led by an ambitious young Scotland Yard detective. Mr Briggs was beaten, robbed of his watch chain then thrown from his first-class carriage on the North London Railway on to the track near Hackney Wick in London on 9 July 1864. His murder transfixed a population still coming to terms with the arrival of the railways.Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 2
Posted by Essential Rabbit (U3613943) on Wednesday, 20th February 2013
Sounds fascinating, I did enjoy The Suspicions of Mr. Whicher.
I think they may feature it in the next series of Ripper Street, except the train robbers will be Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 3
Posted by hollybeau (U13700692) ** on Wednesday, 20th February 2013
Thanks philap sounds right up my street, I enjoyed the Suspicions of Mr Whicher so i'm sure I'll enjoy this.
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 4
Posted by Sploink (U9993613) on Wednesday, 20th February 2013
This sounds good. reminds me a bit of The Mysterious Death on the Underground Railway by Baroness Orczy -
thenostalgialeague.c...
I like the Old Man in the Corner stories
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 5
Posted by Bidie In (U2747062) ** on Thursday, 21st February 2013
Also looking forward to this.
It seems to be Pick of the Day with most listings mags and newspapers.Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 6
Posted by lucy (U14792533) on Thursday, 21st February 2013
Ditto
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 7
Posted by peasoupdragon (U5138218) on Thursday, 21st February 2013
Snagging this and going to make sure I watch it
Not someone who usually enjoys television but been really enjoying some of the stuff on Auntie Beebs in the last few weeks
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 8
Posted by germinator (U13411914) on Thursday, 21st February 2013
Recent book on the story here, reviewed by James Martin, author of Edwardian era railway crime novels.
www.guardian.co.uk/b...Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 9
Posted by germinator (U13411914) on Thursday, 21st February 2013
Andrew Martin.
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 10
Posted by captainMouse (U14652804) on Thursday, 21st February 2013
What's so special about 9o'clock on Thursday?
I am currently recording 4 program's in that time slot, but other nights there is nothing worth watchingLink to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 11
Posted by Sploink (U9993613) on Thursday, 21st February 2013
Me too,
. New Normal, Eddie I, Jack Taylor and the Railway prog. Thank heavens for the +1 channels....Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 12
Posted by Essential Rabbit (U3613943) on Thursday, 21st February 2013
And The Good Wife.
I can only record one.
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 13
Posted by the_cleaner (U3423083) on Thursday, 21st February 2013
And The Good Wife.
I can only record one.
I'll watch this, Murder on, and record TGW....and Junior Doc's, which is on at 9 too, I'll record when it's repeated after midnight.....you really do need to study the TV listing mags, on Thursday.
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 14
Posted by GusMcGuire (U7223549) on Thursday, 21st February 2013
Interesting programme but I'm not sure if I like the mixture of presentation styles. The historic re-enactments in modern settings and historic characters giving "interviews to camera" seem rather anachronistic (and in some cases entirely superfluous). It's like they couldn't decide whether to do an historic drama or a modern documentary and so we get (for me at least) an uneasy mixture of both.
That aside, it was an informative, stimulating and thought-provoking programme.Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 15
Posted by Bidie In (U2747062) ** on Thursday, 21st February 2013
I enjoyed it.
The reconstructions were not intrusive as they were based - where possible - on witness testimony of those involved. The court case itself was brought to life as the hired defence lawyer did all he could for the accused.
The pursuit across the sea to America was interesting - steam power verses sail. And the journalists report of the execution was chilling.
Seems, from the last words, that they got the correct man.
Good programme. Any chance of any other infamous court cases brought to life in this way?Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 16
Posted by Guv-nor (U7476305) ** on Thursday, 21st February 2013
I agree it was an informative, stimulating and thought-provoking programme.
The presentation was okay as far as I was concerned, worked better than a poor re-enactment or a presenter going on a journey.Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 17
Posted by Phil-ap (U13637313) on Thursday, 21st February 2013
Anyone spot Genevieve Barr as the deaf prostitute. She was the star of The Silence some time back.
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 18
Posted by Huckerback (U14411634) ** on Thursday, 21st February 2013
I wished it had been clearer which photographs were genuine, and which were mocked up.
The blurring of the real and the fake was a bit off-putting.Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 19
Posted by Sploink (U9993613) on Thursday, 21st February 2013
It seemed a bit of a damp squib to me - So he was found guilty and he WAS guilty? So all the stuff talking about how bad the judicial system was and how prejudiced etc got the right result? Odd they made the prog....
Actually I was strongly reminded of a Dr Thorndyke story called the Blue Sequin. Have a read, it's not that long -
www.classicreader.co...Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 20
Posted by Huckerback (U14411634) ** on Thursday, 21st February 2013
Interesting factoid on Wikipedia, which says it was public reaction to this murder which led to the establishment of the communication cord in trains.
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 21
Posted by becky sharp (U4544768) on Thursday, 21st February 2013
Murder on the Victorian Railway
Michael Portillo covered this on his Epping to Hackney railway programme
www.bbc.co.uk/progra...Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 22
Posted by LadyAlice (U2796582) on Thursday, 21st February 2013
Very interesting programme. But I am trying to remember where I've seen this story told before - and within the last 12 months. A shorter programme, I think.... surely not MP's railways journeys?
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 23
Posted by caissier (U14073060) on Thursday, 21st February 2013
Very plodding and loaded with gimmicks as usual now. What was with the joke horror-style lighting of people talking about the case? Most of it was filmed in darkness for no good reason and the acted parts were played as though in a trance. As noted above the 'reality' illustrating photographs looked .... fake. I thought the gimmickry distracted from the story.
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 24
Posted by Reithian (U1195316) on Thursday, 21st February 2013
I have just finished the book on which this programme was based and would recommend it. It provides a lot more background detail and creates ambiguities about the guilt of the German tailor.
Some questions remained unanswered to me though:
- why did the accused take that particular train?
- did he buy a First Class ticket ( if indeed he did) and why when he was a poorly paid tailor?
- who sold him the ticket?
- how distinct were the final words of the convicted man through a hood? and there was a lot of pressure for a convicted murderer to admit guilt in order to confirm the validity of the processes of justice
- what about the witnesses who claimed to have seen two people in the same carriage as the murdered victim?
- what did the accused write in the lengthy piece he wrote in prison? Does it still exist?
I agree that the mixture of original archive material with dramatic reconstruction took time to get used to but it seemed to work as the underpinning story was an interesting one.
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 25
Posted by Phil-ap (U13637313) on Friday, 22nd February 2013
I thought that this was pretty well done. The idea of using actors in Victorian costume in modern settings took a short while to get used to but worked well.
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 26
Posted by the_cleaner (U3423083) on Friday, 22nd February 2013
I thought that this was pretty well done. The idea of using actors in Victorian costume in modern settings took a short while to get used to but worked well. I thought that was very well done, as it all was...got it straight away....There was one scene when one of them, the Journalist I think, got into a Modern Taxi and when he was in it talking, it was ye olde one, all leather.
Fascinating Murder Case...but did the right one Hang.
And what a Crowd for it....50,000....
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 27
Posted by Huckerback (U14411634) ** on Friday, 22nd February 2013
According to "Capital Crimes: Seven Centuries of London Life and Murder"
by Max Décharné, there were some interesting aspects of the case that weren't mentioned in the programme (or I missed
).
The hat found in the carriage had its brim turned up in an unusual style that was more common abroad.
Muller's landlord found a hatbox from Walkers of Marylebone in his rooms - the same make as the hat found in the carriage.
Apparently Detective Tanner took Mr. Death (the jeweller) and Mr. Matthews (the cabman) to New York with him, as well as a Police Sergeant.
The jury took just 15 minutes to reach a unanimous verdict.
After being sentenced to death, Muller said, "I was prepared for the sentence. I have been convicted, not by a true, but by a false statement; and if I die according to the sentence, I shall die an innocent death."Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 28
Posted by caissier (U14073060) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013
I thought that this was pretty well done. The idea of using actors in Victorian costume in modern settings took a short while to get used to but worked well. What was it about the story that you feel was served by having actors in period costumes being filmed in modern settings Phil-ap .... what was the point?
(sorry, a bit of a rhetorical question .... )Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 29
Posted by briggsy2 (U1288489) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013
I also found the actors pretending to be Victorian characters jarring & unconvincing :- I would have preferred a more traditional straight documentary style.
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 30
Posted by Alsdouble (U524298) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013
Thought it was brilliant and captivating. Period characters set in modern settings, relaying their evidence, as we know it from the records. Avtual photographs and stock photographs and cine. It was just something new, totally original and, for the first time in ages, I pushed the laptop aside and concentrated on a seriously good piece of work. With the odd Tweet to congratulate the Beeb on a darn good program.
Excellent, well done.
Don't listen to the critics, it was good. Some people wouldn't know good if it hit them round the back of the head.Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 31
Posted by caissier (U14073060) on Saturday, 23rd February 2013
.... we don't want to be doing with any of that there critical thinking, do we?Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 32
Posted by hollybeau (U13700692) ** on Saturday, 23rd February 2013
I really enjoyed it until the guilty bloke confessed supposedly.He uttered his last words while dropping with a noose around his neck and yet they translated it verbatim, don't think I'd be able to remember what anyone said that clearly under those circumstances.
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 33
Posted by caissier (U14073060) on Wednesday, 27th February 2013
Was he wearing a hood .... and with a German accent?
Had another look at this. It was more about the ludicrous desperate gimmicks than the story. so much so that it was juvenile and plain unprofessional. What happened to, you know, just telling a story?
The Pollard Inquiry has revealed the shambles in management and direction within the BBC and that must affect programmes in some way. This one might indicate how lack of confidence and fearful uncertainty about purpose has worked its way through to not knowing what to put into programmes or how to recognised silliness which should be vetoed. Not much clarity of Vision here.Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 34
Posted by DoverSoul (U14934992) ** on Wednesday, 27th February 2013
Just bumping this for anyone who watched the repeat as another thread has started here. www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 35
Posted by Peta (U24) on Wednesday, 27th February 2013
Thanks DoverSoul
What do you think people? Who's watching?
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 36
Posted by Sandstrom (U14413284) ** on Thursday, 28th February 2013
Just caught up with Murder on the Victorian Railway and enjoyed it very much.
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 37
Posted by Hamlet (U12521388) on Thursday, 28th February 2013
Watched this on I Player......Good ! I liked it and wished I had seen it on the telly.
I wonder if he did it?????????????Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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Message 38
Posted by johnlampen (U15643853) on Monday, 11th March 2013
I wish all documentary maskers on the BBC would learn from this programme. Every visual shot was directly relevant at its point in the story, and there was no intrusive music (just a few discretely underlining electronic sound effects). So many programmes are a frenzy of noise and vaguely related pictures which actually distract from the story they are trying to tell. This one was a model of how to do it.
Link to this forum: Murder on the Victorian Railway BBC2 9pm tomorrow
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