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Loving Miss Hatto

Messages: 1 - 49 of 49
  • Message 1. 

    Posted by Phil-ap (U13637313) on Saturday, 22nd December 2012

    BBC1 8.30pm 23rd Dec.

    One of the Christmas treats.

    After years of frustration and broken dreams, classical pianist Joyce Hatto finally found international fame in her 70s, despite suffering from cancer. Dubbed 'the greatest living pianist no one has ever heard of', she had critics raving about her sublime recordings.

    Yet six months after her death, many of these recordings were discovered to be by other pianists - the greatest hoax in classical music had been orchestrated from the small town of Royston, Hertfordshire.  


    Biggest plus Francesca Annis is in it as the older Joyce Hatto

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  • Message 2

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    Posted by germinator (U13411914) ** on Saturday, 22nd December 2012

    "Biggest plus Francesca Annis is in it as the older Joyce Hatto"
    And Alfred Molina minus his Grecian 2000.

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  • Message 3

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    Posted by deansay (U5811575) on Saturday, 22nd December 2012

    BBC1 8.30pm 23rd Dec.

    One of the Christmas treats.

    After years of frustration and broken dreams, classical pianist Joyce Hatto finally found international fame in her 70s, despite suffering from cancer. Dubbed 'the greatest living pianist no one has ever heard of', she had critics raving about her sublime recordings.

    Yet six months after her death, many of these recordings were discovered to be by other pianists - the greatest hoax in classical music had been orchestrated from the small town of Royston, Hertfordshire.  


    Biggest plus Francesca Annis is in it as the older Joyce Hatto 
    Looking forward to this.

    As you say one of the Chrsitmas treats, of which there are very few this year.

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  • Message 4

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    Posted by Essential Rabbit (U3613943) on Saturday, 22nd December 2012

    Looking forward to this.

    As you say one of the Chrsitmas treats, of which there are very few this year. 

    Promises to be one of the very few oases in the desert of the Christmas schedules across all Freeview channels.

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  • Message 5

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    Posted by heterodox (U14291406) on Saturday, 22nd December 2012


    'Yet six months after her death, many of these recordings were discovered to be by other pianists - the greatest hoax in classical music .....'

    I shall watch this with great interest and the more so because, as I remember things, one critic, having slated the recording made by the original artist, went on to heap praise on the same recording when it was issued as part of Joyce Hatto's work.
    Moreover, I seem to remember that the accompanying orchestra on the faked recordings was shown as The New London Symphony ,or something like that, with a conductor I had never heard of.
    All this begs questions about how this fraud could possibly have succeeded. Perhaps the programme will provide answers.

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  • Message 6

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by hobleyduck (U13733006) on Saturday, 22nd December 2012

    This sounds like a very promising programme. You have to admire Victoria Wood, as she researched this project for three years. Do find it incredible that her husband, who is still alive, claims that Joyce knew nothing about the con, it is allmost beyond belief that she would not know her own interpretation of music. The music critics of the time have to bequestioned as well, if they said that the technicalities of her playing were weak, and her rhythmatic interpretation was poor, one wonders how they could notspot the difference when these fake recordings were played. Surely they should have saying to themselves, how this pianist could have made this dramatic improvement in her playing.

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  • Message 7

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    Posted by Quizzimodo (U551071) on Saturday, 22nd December 2012

    Looking forward to this

    I vaguely remember the original story

    This by Victoria Wood. Her play about the young Morecombe & Wise couple of Xmases ago was excellent

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  • Message 8

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    Posted by Rosemary (U7231409) on Saturday, 22nd December 2012

    I shall definitely be watching this. A quite extraordinary story, and one of which I've never heard before. Hope it proves to be as good as it looks from the trailers!

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  • Message 9

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    Posted by Going_once (U14931925) on Saturday, 22nd December 2012

    One of three things on BBC on Sunday night I would have been watching were it not for Olympia on Red Button. Hope it repeats soon but I expect it will turn up on BBC4 eventually.

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  • Message 10

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    Posted by Bidie-In (U2747062) ** on Saturday, 22nd December 2012

    This is one of my Christmas highlights - I remember when the story of the faked cd's broke......

    It looks really sumptous and a 'must see' - even if you are not a fan of classical music. smiley - ok

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  • Message 11

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    Posted by Phil-ap (U13637313) on Sunday, 23rd December 2012

    Reminder for tonight.

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  • Message 12

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    Posted by Quizzimodo (U551071) on Sunday, 23rd December 2012

    BUMP!!

    Just starting now

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  • Message 13

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    Posted by Quizzimodo (U551071) on Sunday, 23rd December 2012

    Hmm

    Anyone else think this should have been trimmed to an hour?

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  • Message 14

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    Posted by strictlyaddicted2dancing (U14110008) on Sunday, 23rd December 2012

    Hmm

    Anyone else think this should have been trimmed to an hour? 
    I really enjoyed the early years, but think its a bit laboured now and Frqncesca Annis seems to be all wrong ..... Maybe she did become a bit dotty,but it it doesn't ring true for me.

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  • Message 15

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by Chris Rogers (U10129711) on Sunday, 23rd December 2012

    Agree; first 40-50 mins was rather good, but the sudden change to the fraud aspect is really awkward, not least because much of the dialogue feels laboured and matches the Wiki entry. Annis seems to make old Hatto shrewish and common, whereas young Hatto was quiet and funny and middle class. Rory Kinnear was brilliant though.

    (It was filmed in Ireland, BTW, hence the Irish neighbour and the unconvincing 'Royal Festival Hall' with architecture about 15 years too late)

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  • Message 16

    , in reply to message 13.

    Posted by Rosemary (U7231409) on Sunday, 23rd December 2012

    Hmm

    Anyone else think this should have been trimmed to an hour? 
    No, I think that would have made it feel horribly rushed. As it was, I thought the pacing was just right.

    I can see the point others have made that the character of the older Joyce seemed to differ from that of the younger one. But then, thinking about it, I wondered whether that would be so unlikely, especially given the frustrations of a her career. Having to settle for so much less than she had aspired to, and feeling let down by her husband, could easily have embittered her.

    I enjoyed it. And I thought both Rory Kinnear and Alfred Molina were excellent!

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  • Message 17

    , in reply to message 15.

    Posted by Phil-ap (U13637313) on Sunday, 23rd December 2012

    I thought that Francesca Annis brilliantly portrayed a women suffering from terminal cancer. I think anyone might be a bit shrewish under those circumstances.

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  • Message 18

    , in reply to message 15.

    Posted by Essential Rabbit (U3613943) on Sunday, 23rd December 2012

    Agree; first 40-50 mins was rather good 
    Loved the audition.
    All the right notes but not necessarily in the right order.

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  • Message 19

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    Posted by deansay (U5811575) on Sunday, 23rd December 2012

    Agree; first 40-50 mins was rather good 
    Loved the audition.
    All the right notes but not necessarily in the right order. 
    smiley - biggrin

    On the whole I enjoyed it. Kinnear and Molina were excellent.

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  • Message 20

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by Glorious Technicolour (U4590479) on Sunday, 23rd December 2012

    I think it would have worked better and been less jarring as two separated one hour episodes, past and present. I think the latter part of the story needed a little more time, to show more just before Joyce's illness and the growing despair she and her husband felt.

    But I enjoyed it, apart from the slightly cheesy childhood interview tape, and think the motivation, partly attributed by Victoria Wood, was believeable. I don't suppose we will ever know for certain how involved Joyce was with the deception.

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  • Message 21

    , in reply to message 9.

    Posted by alywin (U5328352) on Sunday, 23rd December 2012

    One of three things on BBC on Sunday night I would have been watching were it not for Olympia on Red Button. Hope it repeats soon but I expect it will turn up on BBC4 eventually.  

    What, I missed the showjumping, to add insult to injury? (I foolishly looked at the BBC Sunday schedule in the Radio Times, decided that there was nothing to compete with Homeland, and turned the telly on at 9 pm for it, only to find I was on BBC, partway through this. I'd looked at the wrong Sunday in my 2-week RT! smiley - sadface. Is it being repeated over Christmas, or do I have to wait for another showing on BBC4?

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  • Message 22

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    Posted by Alsdouble (U524298) on Monday, 24th December 2012

    It was okay. I think if anything it lacked the drama of failure, in music. Not sure Victoria Wood went far enough to explain the devastation of that. Or it didn't come across.

    Had to nip to Google later to find out it was all a true story, which worked better than the drama of it.

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  • Message 23

    , in reply to message 22.

    Posted by Andy (U14048329) on Monday, 24th December 2012

    I thought it was good, though it did do the smallest of jumps over a very small shark at the end with her "reappearing" after her death. I thought it jarred, and detracted from the scene with the two ex-pupils coming back and giving him the recording.

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  • Message 24

    , in reply to message 22.

    Posted by GARGLEBLASTER (U3191065) ** on Monday, 24th December 2012

    The general opinion seems to be luke warm to say the least and I have to say that I agree. I knew of the Joyce Hatto story and this supposed drama didn't add anything to my knowledge. It was competently acted but I feel that there should have been something more. One thing that I found somewhat curious were the change of voices between the young Joyce Hatto and the older. The older seemed to have acquired a rather coarse accent and that doesn't happen in real life.

    Final opinon: Not memorable

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  • Message 25

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    Posted by Phil-ap (U13637313) on Monday, 24th December 2012

    I thought that it was a story of true devotion and that came out in the writing. Barry would do anything for Joyce even though she didn't treat him very well. She was obviously worn down by years of disappointment and her illness.

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  • Message 26

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by titchi707 (U14547051) on Monday, 24th December 2012

    BBC1 8.30pm 23rd Dec.

    One of the Christmas treats.

    After years of frustration and broken dreams, classical pianist Joyce Hatto finally found international fame in her 70s, despite suffering from cancer. Dubbed 'the greatest living pianist no one has ever heard of', she had critics raving about her sublime recordings.

    Yet six months after her death, many of these recordings were discovered to be by other pianists - the greatest hoax in classical music had been orchestrated from the small town of Royston, Hertfordshire.  


    Biggest plus Francesca Annis is in it as the older Joyce Hatto 
    I enjoyed the programme. It was well acted well by all. However, I really want to say that I have an old Saga recording of Joyce Hatto playing the Rachmaninov Piano Concerto number 2 on LP.

    I bought this when I was just 14. It was my introduction to Rachmaninov. Personally, I think it is truly wonderful, full of expression and amazing technique. I played it and played it until it got quite worn, but it has always evoked deep emotions and I have always loved and admired her playing.

    The programme made me dig it out and get my old stereo deck going for the first time in years. It hisses, but still has the same profound effect on my emotions.
    I do hope that the programme will revive an interest in her genuine, wonderful recordings, which I am sure have given joy to many over such a long time.

    I am not a World expert, or critic for 'The Gramophone', but I know that recording has inspired me and helped me through some tough times.

    Please forward this note to her husband, so that he is aware of the gratitude that I think many of us still owe to a great pianist.

    David Titchfield

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  • Message 27

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by titchi707 (U14547051) on Monday, 24th December 2012

    BBC1 8.30pm 23rd Dec.

    One of the Christmas treats.

    After years of frustration and broken dreams, classical pianist Joyce Hatto finally found international fame in her 70s, despite suffering from cancer. Dubbed 'the greatest living pianist no one has ever heard of', she had critics raving about her sublime recordings.

    Yet six months after her death, many of these recordings were discovered to be by other pianists - the greatest hoax in classical music had been orchestrated from the small town of Royston, Hertfordshire.  


    Biggest plus Francesca Annis is in it as the older Joyce Hatto 
    I enjoyed the programme. It was acted well by all. However, I really want to say that I have an old Saga recording of Joyce Hatto playing the Rachmaninov Piano Concerto number 2 on LP.

    I bought this when I was just 14. It was my introduction to Rachmaninov. Personally, I think it is truly wonderful, full of expression and amazing technique. I played it and played it until it got quite worn, but it has always evoked deep emotions and I have always loved and admired her playing.

    The programme made me dig it out and get my old stereo deck going for the first time in years. It hisses, but still has the same profound effect on my emotions.
    I do hope that the programme will revive an interest in her genuine, wonderful recordings, which I am sure have given joy to many over such a long time.

    I am not a World expert, or critic for 'The Gramophone', but I know that recording has inspired me and helped me through some tough times.

    Please forward this note to her husband, so that he is aware of the gratitude that I think many of us still owe to a great pianist.

    David Titchfield

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  • Message 28

    , in reply to message 27.

    Posted by Martyn (U14949330) on Monday, 24th December 2012

    On the whole this was well acted by the four leads (Rory Kinnear, Maimie McCoy, Francesca Annis and especially Alfred Molina) but it was all rather too slow to really grab the attention for it's 90 minute runtime.

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  • Message 29

    , in reply to message 27.

    Posted by SATM67 (U14061947) on Monday, 24th December 2012

    I thoroughly enjoyed this programme.
    It is such a shame that Joyce's husband, in his desire to give her the fame he thought she deserved, ruined any chance that her genuine recordings might have attracted belated recognition.
    Everything bearing her name now appears to be ridiculed.
    One thing that did annoy me with the programme was the credits being rolled at the speed of light.
    When will the powers that be realise that an audience may well wish to ascertain the name of an unknown actor who has impressed them.

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  • Message 30

    , in reply to message 13.

    Posted by the_cleaner (U3423083) on Monday, 24th December 2012

    Hmm

    Anyone else think this should have been trimmed to an hour? 
    Well I lasted half an hour....I was Bored.smiley - sadface

    So 30 minutes would have been better....On the other hand, they could have stretched Mr Stink to 90 mins... easily.

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  • Message 31

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by strictlyaddicted2dancing (U14110008) on Monday, 24th December 2012

    A touching story, but a little too long. Totally agree about the end credits ..... As usual impossible to read. I wanted see what part of Dublin the house was filmed in as I do know parts of the outskirts very well.

    I wonder if "Barrie" will comment. It's very sad. Also I wonder what happened to the two school girls who loved their teacher so much?

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  • Message 32

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    Posted by Quizzimodo (U551071) on Monday, 24th December 2012

    I looked this couple on Wiki & I'm now convinced Victoria Wood told the WRONG story.

    HE is much more interesting than her & seems to have been an extremely dodgy character all along

    en.wikipedia.org/wik...


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  • Message 33

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by hobleyduck (U13733006) on Monday, 24th December 2012

    Enjoyed this very much, it was very touching, but sad at times, The acting standards were very good. In real life Joyce's husband must have been very devoted and loving, he still maintains to this day she did not not know of the deception, but this is hard to believe as any pianist would have their own style and interpretation of every piece, and for her not to recognize it was another pianist, is frankly very strange.

    Would have been interesting to have heard other pianists reaction to the deception, especially Laszlo Simon, the artist whose work was copied, would liked to have known his moral thoughts, and if he was financially recompensed for the con. he was still living when this matter came to light.

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  • Message 34

    , in reply to message 30.

    Posted by Rosemary (U7231409) on Monday, 24th December 2012

    Well I lasted half an hour....I was Bored.smiley - sadface So 30 minutes would have been better... 

    Thirty minutes?? Ye Gods, you'd have had to go some, wouldn't you, to do the story justice?

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  • Message 35

    , in reply to message 33.

    Posted by Quizzimodo (U551071) on Monday, 24th December 2012

    Would have been interesting to have heard other pianists reaction to the deception, especially Laszlo Simon, the artist whose work was copied, would liked to have known his moral thoughts, and if he was financially recompensed for the con. he was still living when this matter came to light. 

    According to Wiki he was encouraged to cash in when the deception was discovered

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  • Message 36

    , in reply to message 15.

    Posted by Bob1942 (U1184472) on Wednesday, 26th December 2012

    Looking through my old tapes I found a 7" reel to reel of Ms Hatto on the Saga label playing film themes,conductor Gilbert Vintner so this is a genuine recording of hers.
    One small continuity point,when husbands first arrest fo purchase tax evasion was featured it said he was importing dictating machines from the far east,Japan I think,but a Philips original music cassette recorder was shown,made in Austria at the time

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  • Message 37

    , in reply to message 18.

    Posted by Tom Adustus (U9467814) on Wednesday, 26th December 2012

    Agree; first 40-50 mins was rather good 
    Loved the audition.
    All the right notes but not necessarily in the right order. 


    Yes. The best thing about the programme was the way it showed the pressures of performing solo classical music. You may have a wonderful technique and great artistic insight but very few have the personality and character to do it and they are not necessarily the best musicians.

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  • Message 38

    , in reply to message 13.

    Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Wednesday, 26th December 2012

    Anyone else think this should have been trimmed to an hour? 
    Yes.

    90 minutes was too long.

    Also - it didn't seem to be the right subject matter for the Christmas season. Too depressing. It would have been better had it been broadcast at almost any other time of year.

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  • Message 39

    , in reply to message 28.

    Posted by Bob1942 (U1184472) on Wednesday, 26th December 2012

    On the whole this was well acted by the four leads (Rory Kinnear, Maimie McCoy, Francesca Annis and especially Alfred Molina) but it was all rather too slow to really grab the attention for it's 90 minute runtime.  Molina is very good in a Law & Order spin off,very acceptable American accent.

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  • Message 40

    , in reply to message 38.

    Posted by Quizzimodo (U551071) on Wednesday, 26th December 2012

    Anyone else think this should have been trimmed to an hour? 
    Yes.

    90 minutes was too long.

    Also - it didn't seem to be the right subject matter for the Christmas season. Too depressing. It would have been better had it been broadcast at almost any other time of year. 
    I totally agree with your first point but not your second.

    Having said that, the wiki entries for this couple reveal a much funnier story than was told here

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  • Message 41

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    Posted by Tweeet (U15280056) on Wednesday, 26th December 2012

    Really loved this programme...knew of them but didn't know what the scandal was exactly so watched and enjoyed. Great TV!
    smiley - ok

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  • Message 42

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    Posted by ARENA (U3567614) on Friday, 28th December 2012

    Excellent cast
    Excellent writer
    Excellent entertainment
    More like this Auntie..........................

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  • Message 43

    , in reply to message 42.

    Posted by Bidie-In (U2747062) ** on Sunday, 30th December 2012

    Finaly got this watched - top quality drama. The cast were excellent and the period detail was wonderful in the early scenes. This was worthy of a cinema release, IMO - in the same way as that BBC drama about the founding of the Paralympic game.

    I felt so sorry for Joyce, unable to perform in front of a large audience. I did wonder if she might have been more at ease had she had her music in front of her and someone at her side to turn the pages? There are doubtless many gifted musicians for whom nerves (or an undermining shrew of a parent) are too big a barrier for them to fulfill their potential.

    Thanks BBC.

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  • Message 44

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    Posted by Monty Burns (U7868864) on Monday, 31st December 2012

    We watched this last night and thought it was very good after a bit of a slow start. The period features and sets seemed to be well done. The only slight gripe I had was that the timeline wasn't that well documented so it was a little difficult to work out what year it was supposed to be as the story unfolded.

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  • Message 45

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    Posted by germinator (U13411914) ** on Monday, 31st December 2012

    I agree Monty, Ms Wood seemed to have decided to let the viewer fill in many of the gaps, likewise it was never made explicit why Joyce Hatto could no longer perform in public or make any more recordings.
    Alfred Molina and Ned Dennehy were for me, the best performers.

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  • Message 46

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    Posted by Bidie-In (U2747062) ** on Monday, 31st December 2012

    It should, on the face of it, have been possible for her to record music at a studio even if she did not feel up to performing in front of a large audience.

    It seemed strange that she progressed so far with her music - as a career rather than a hobby - without steps being taken to try and overcome her chronic shyness/stage fright.

    I mentioned that perhaps having the music in front of her or having someone at her side to turn the pages might have been all that was needed for her to focus on what she loved doing and ignore those watching.

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  • Message 47

    , in reply to message 46.

    Posted by Mary Chambers (U2135388) on Monday, 31st December 2012

    Apart from nerves and then having cancer, I think a major reason she didn't progress as a pianist was that she simply wasn't quite good enough for the cut-throat professional competition. That's why she made little impact until her husband started fiddling the recordings.

    I wonder whether he watched it, and if so, what he thought?

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  • Message 48

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    Posted by germinator (U13411914) ** on Monday, 31st December 2012

    "However in 1976 she stopped performing in public. It was later claimed that she was already battling cancer at the time.[7] However, the consultant radiologist who saw her every six weeks for the last eight years of her life stated that she was first treated for ovarian cancer in 1992, fourteen years before her death and had had no previous history of the disease.[8]"
    This (above), from Wiki, suggests that it was not ill-health which curtailed her career. Her not being quite good enough seems eminently plausible to an non-musical person like me, and is not an aspect which a scriptwriter would necessarily want to exploit.

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  • Message 49

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    Posted by SATM67 (U14061947) on Monday, 31st December 2012

    To be fair to Joyce Hatto, would a Record Company, other than perhaps a small independent one, be prepared to record a classical music soloist who did not have a public persona through concert performances?
    I can think of several successful 'classical music' artists who, for me, are over rated, while far more talented people don't get the breaks they deserve.

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