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Question Time 22/11/2012

Messages: 1 - 48 of 48
  • Message 1. 

    Posted by Thuban (U8349152) ** on Friday, 23rd November 2012

    A fine performance from Owen Jones of the Independent, a young man with plenty to say for himself and all of it very much to the point.

    Pity it made the politicians look so bland, passionless, ill-informed and lacking the kind of finger on the national pulse that ought to be a distinguishing feature of their public speaking but sadly, is not.

    His presence gave DD and I. Duncan-Smith an unusually and admirably hard time. I look forward to hearing more from this young man if the BBC has the courage to invite him again.

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  • Message 2

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    Posted by BillieSt (U14363050) on Friday, 23rd November 2012

    You think so? I thought he came over as an over enthusiastic left wing student debater who shouted down anyone with a different point of view. Possibly the reason the other panel members didn't engage was because they know from past experience there's only one opinion he's interested in, his own.

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  • Message 3

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    Posted by Dark_Horse (U872233) on Friday, 23rd November 2012

    You think so? I thought he came over as an over enthusiastic left wing student debater who shouted down anyone with a different point of view. Possibly the reason the other panel members didn't engage was because they know from past experience there's only one opinion he's interested in, his own.   I dont't know the fella, but his analysis of the recent Gaza crisis was well thought out and succint. The audience (most of 'em) certainly thought so, they cheered as well as applauded.
    The Jewish gentleman who did disagree just said you dont understand, but could not counter the individual points made.

    Question Time is not the forum for changing the panel's opinions, but expressing them lucidly, for the rest of us to form our opinion, if we havent already done so.

    At least that is the opinion I have formed smiley - smiley

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  • Message 4

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    Posted by counterblast (U14258320) on Friday, 23rd November 2012

    Owen Jones was on superb form.

    And whether you agree with him or not, it is perfectly reasonable to have a genuine voice of the left on Question Time. Let's face it, we have to suffer enough right wing nutters on the programme.

    Owen is a breath of fresh air.

    Apparently, they had to stop the programme for five minutes while a female protester was removed from the hall. Probably why Dimbleby looked so harassed.

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  • Message 5

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    Posted by pie-thagoras (U1306117) on Friday, 23rd November 2012

    My thoughts exactly. Bit of a jumped up so-called journo with no intention of listening to both sides of the argument.

    That's how he came across to me.

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  • Message 6

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    Posted by zelda (U2012536) on Friday, 23rd November 2012

    Owen Jones is his own worst enemy. If he could lose the sneering rent-a-gob act and put his points over calmy, he might get some more people to listen. He does have some salient points but the way he comes over is just far too up himself for my liking.

    IDS almost lost his rag with him.... that could have been interesting if the show hadn't come to an end. What was that woman heckling about... all I could hear was a voice shouting, about what, I have no idea.

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  • Message 7

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    Posted by BillieSt (U14363050) on Friday, 23rd November 2012

    I think it comes down to your own point of view, if you agree with his extreme left views then you'll have enjoyed his performance on Question Time, regardless of his obvious inability to acknowledge another side of an argument, only to say he is 'extremely disappointed' (possibly also surprised) when someone offers an alternative opinion.

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  • Message 8

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    Posted by Johnbee (U542312) on Friday, 23rd November 2012

    Yes, IDS did pretend to be angry when his shortcomings and 'blame it on the poor' were exposed. In general, Owen's contributions were interrupted and shouted over by one ior two panellists and Dimbleby every time he spoke. Let's hope that they allow on a few more people on the left and middle so they get used to it and argue instead of just blustering.

    It is depressing to me that no politician, even Owen, can explain to people that the bottom 5% of IQ people (i.e. people below IQ 75) can not even complete basic education to age 11 because they are too thick. That means that of the 60 million UK people, 3 million (5%) just can not cope on their own.

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  • Message 9

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by Myles4291 (U14634500) on Friday, 23rd November 2012

    Owen Jones was on superb form.

    And whether you agree with him or not, it is perfectly reasonable to have a genuine voice of the left on Question Time. Let's face it, we have to suffer enough right wing nutters on the programme.

    Owen is a breath of fresh air.

    Apparently, they had to stop the programme for five minutes while a female protester was removed from the hall. Probably why Dimbleby looked so harassed. 
    Last paragraph...really? I had to smile when David said that she couldn't be heard. I could hear her perfectly.

    I thought it was a good epi...I agree with you. Owen Jones is always good value, in my opinion.

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  • Message 10

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    Posted by Andy (U14048329) on Friday, 23rd November 2012

    Owen Jones was on superb form.

    And whether you agree with him or not, it is perfectly reasonable to have a genuine voice of the left on Question Time. Let's face it, we have to suffer enough right wing nutters on the programme.

    Owen is a breath of fresh air.

    Apparently, they had to stop the programme for five minutes while a female protester was removed from the hall. Probably why Dimbleby looked so harassed. 
    Last paragraph...really? I had to smile when David said that she couldn't be heard. I could hear her perfectly.

    I thought it was a good epi...I agree with you. Owen Jones is always good value, in my opinion. 
    Indeed he is. But not to everyone's taste.

    Young, left-wing and articulate.....any one of those would give some people on here a fit of the vapours, but all three altogether........ smiley - winkeye

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  • Message 11

    , in reply to message 10.

    Posted by Myles4291 (U14634500) on Friday, 23rd November 2012

    Owen Jones was on superb form.

    And whether you agree with him or not, it is perfectly reasonable to have a genuine voice of the left on Question Time. Let's face it, we have to suffer enough right wing nutters on the programme.

    Owen is a breath of fresh air.

    Apparently, they had to stop the programme for five minutes while a female protester was removed from the hall. Probably why Dimbleby looked so harassed. 
    Last paragraph...really? I had to smile when David said that she couldn't be heard. I could hear her perfectly.

    I thought it was a good epi...I agree with you. Owen Jones is always good value, in my opinion. 
    Indeed he is. But not to everyone's taste.

    Young, left-wing and articulate.....any one of those would give some people on here a fit of the vapours, but all three altogether........ smiley - winkeye 
    I agree Andy...but as I am of Owen's persuasion...smiley - ok smiley - winkeye

    I thought IDS was going to lose the plot at one point...smiley - blush

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  • Message 12

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    Posted by Prophet Tenebrae (U5995226) on Friday, 23rd November 2012

    Owen Jones is indeed young, left-wing and reasonably articulate... it's just a shame that all he articulates is the same left-wing rhetoric people twice or even thrice his age spout - it rather mitigates two of the three attributes.

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  • Message 13

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    Posted by eviled2 (U14446578) on Friday, 23rd November 2012

    He took moderate reasonable positions it appears to me that were based on facts and reality. However, it is a symptom of how far main stream media discourse has become so reactionary and right wing that he appears so left wing.

    By the way, if that was Kennedy sober, perhaps he should go back on the bottle.

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  • Message 14

    , in reply to message 13.

    Posted by Myles4291 (U14634500) on Friday, 23rd November 2012

    He took moderate reasonable positions it appears to me that were based on facts and reality. However, it is a symptom of how far main stream media discourse has become so reactionary and right wing that he appears so left wing.

    By the way, if that was Kennedy sober, perhaps he should go back on the bottle. 
    What are you implying about Mr Kennedy?

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  • Message 15

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    Posted by not-shakespeare (U12804375) on Friday, 23rd November 2012

    www.marinesigns.com/...

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  • Message 16

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  • Message 17

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  • Message 18

    , in reply to message 15.

    Posted by briggsy2 (U1288489) on Saturday, 24th November 2012

    This edition of QT was deadly dull for the first 50 minutes, then came alive at the end. I nearly switched off during the debate on women priests. I enjoyed Owen's barracking of IDS - you could almost see the steam coming out of his ears at one point. Then he took a few moments to compose himself and continued his well rehearsed speech.. As far as the woman in the audience was concerned, I couldn't make out any of what she was saying personally.

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  • Message 19

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Essential Rabbit (U3613943) ** on Saturday, 24th November 2012

    You think so? I thought he came over as an over enthusiastic left wing student debater who shouted down anyone with a different point of view. Possibly the reason the other panel members didn't engage was because they know from past experience there's only one opinion he's interested in, his own.   I switched off as soon as I realized he was on.

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  • Message 20

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by Reservoir Hamster (U14288323) on Saturday, 24th November 2012

    When you're young and left-wing, you're full of glib answers to all the problems of the world and disrespectful to and dismissive of older politicians of a conservative frame of mind. Owen Jones reminds me of the young David Aaronovitch, equally impressive as a firebrand keen to implement the socialist programme and relieve us of all our cares. David has mellowed and I expect Owen will too.

    I remember being shocked and surprisingly heartwarmed when I learned that the darling of the left Michael Foot and controversial right-winger Enoch Powell were actually friends, often having dinner at each other's houses and discussing their shared love of literature. Perhaps Owen Jones and IDS will similarly come together one day as friends.

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  • Message 21

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    Posted by counterblast (U14258320) on Saturday, 24th November 2012

    I very much doubt that IDS has ever read a book in his life.

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  • Message 22

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by marvel_ (U15382529) on Saturday, 24th November 2012

    I was disappointed in how unrepresentative the panel was to deal with an Anglican decision. Two Catholics and no one to present the decision passed (on women Bishops). Yes I am female and agreed with the decision. This is to represent the Biblical view and not 'passing fads' of which there are many. If marriage generally was strong in society, the BBC's lack of balance would not be so shocking.

    I switched off after a few minutes.

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  • Message 23

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    Posted by 5u55exPat (U14150756) on Saturday, 24th November 2012

    I don't watch Question Time very often but I did see this week's. I had never heard of Owen Jones before but I thought he was very good. I didn't think of him as left-wing, just honest, which you never get from politicians.

    I was interested in the discussion about women bishop's as I was horrified and shocked by the decision of the C of E.

    I turned off before the end of the programme but it sounds as if I missed the best bit. I'll have to go back and find it on iplayer.

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  • Message 24

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    Posted by seaDoctor (U4509975) on Saturday, 24th November 2012

    By the way my message did not break the house rules at all. Just because I mentioned someone's expenses which I won't repeat. Silly of you to do that. Anyway....moving on...

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  • Message 25

    , in reply to message 23.

    Posted by Thuban (U8349152) ** on Saturday, 24th November 2012

    I turned off before the end of the programme but it sounds as if I missed the best bit. I'll have to go back and find it on iplayer. 


    You did and yes it did come alive at the end, a circumstance that DD himself saw fit to comment on (with contrived regret) ... something to the effect of, "This is always the way of it on Question Time".

    As if he didn't know that the most politically controversial questions are habitually banished to the final moments of the programme, probably in the hope that the allotted time will run out before they are even asked.

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  • Message 26

    , in reply to message 22.

    Posted by Prophet Tenebrae (U5995226) on Saturday, 24th November 2012

    Yes I am female and agreed with the decision. This is to represent the Biblical view and not 'passing fads' of which there are many. If marriage generally was strong in society, the BBC's lack of balance would not be so shocking. 
    So, I can only assume that you're also looking for a number of similarly Biblical views to be followed - death for adultery, homosexuality, mixed fabrics and the like and the reintroduction of Biblically endorsed practices such as rape, slavery and genocide?

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  • Message 27

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by maestaf (U14145694) on Saturday, 24th November 2012

    Owen Jones was articulate and succinct and presented a different point of view which is all too rare on QT these days. As usual, DD was terrible in the chair, cutting short Mr Jones on both the last two questions and permitting IDS simply to heckle throughout Mr Jones' entire response on one occasion. We really need a Chair who gives more time to panellists who are not there to trot out the party line and have a coherent, well argued opinion. I am fed up with the party hacks who bore for Britain with their predictable replies and petty point scoring.

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  • Message 28

    , in reply to message 23.

    Posted by margies (U14748929) on Saturday, 24th November 2012

    I thought Owen Jones was very good. But why just because he is articulate and well informed is he labelled very left wing. I thought he made an absolute mockery of IDS and explained the Gaza/Israel problem very well. If he is very left wing then so am I.
    As for the C of E voting against women bishops, well perhaps if we had had women bishops in the past there might have been less child abuse by some churchmen.

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  • Message 29

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    Posted by Portly (U1381981) ** on Saturday, 24th November 2012

    I was at a football match on Thursday evening and didn't get back in time for "Question Time."

    I am therefore delighted to hear that Owen Jones was on the panel, as I find him quite loathsome I had missed a toe-curling experience. He isn'r prepared to address questions rationally, but spouts mindless rhetoric in a very objectionable and shouty way. smiley - smiley

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  • Message 30

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    Posted by Prophet Tenebrae (U5995226) on Saturday, 24th November 2012

    I suspect he's being labelled left wing because he's very loud about being left-wing, although he seems to be somewhat unaware of the fact he's a champagne socialist but he's hardly unique in that respect.

    Also, I'm very worried if anyone thinks the facile nonsense he talked about the Israel/Palestine problem is in danger of being a good explanation because a good explanation doesn't make a hugely complex geo-political issue with religion and thousands of years of history thrown into the mix come down to what he said, which was the (traditionally left stance) of Palestine good, Israel bad.

    While I've no doubt that many people sleep easier at night with the idea that there's a simple dichotomy and you can pin the attribute good to one side and bad to the other side and leave it at that, that's simply a false dichotomy and while Owen Jones is far from the first to perpetuate it - a good explanation of the problem would take longer than a single episode Question Time.

    His memorised rhetoric is just as unhelpful as any I've heard elsewhere.

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  • Message 31

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    Posted by Phrasmotic 4 August 2012 (U5509534) on Sunday, 25th November 2012

    The comments about Owen Jones - a new name to me - bring to mind something I've long believed. If you speak critically or condescendingly about a QT panellist, chances are you're on the opposite side of the political spectrum.

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  • Message 32

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    Posted by Grandadpop (U3054464) on Sunday, 25th November 2012

    If you speak critically or condescendingly about a QT panellist, chances are you're on the opposite side of the political spectrum. 


    And maybe the opposite side of the age spectrum too?

    'G-G' smiley - smiley

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  • Message 33

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    Posted by seaDoctor (U4509975) on Sunday, 25th November 2012

    I totally disagree with you. I thought it was very well presented, very clearly thought out and actually it was something I finally understood. Without the waffling of IDS in particular.

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  • Message 35

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    Posted by Thuban (U8349152) ** on Sunday, 25th November 2012

    Also, I'm very worried if anyone thinks the facile nonsense he talked about the Israel/Palestine problem is in danger of being a good explanation because a good explanation doesn't make a hugely complex geo-political issue with religion and thousands of years of history thrown into the mix come down to what he said, which was the (traditionally left stance) of Palestine good, Israel bad. 

    I don't think this is a fair summation of what Owen Jones said at all, and as for being 'facile nonsense' and 'the traditionally left stance', these too are politically-loaded comments for which there is little or no justification.

    It seemed to me that Mr Jones was making a knowledgeable and well-researched plea for more equally-balanced reporting and discussion of these vexed issues, instead of the one-sided propaganda to which we are habitually subjected.

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  • Message 36

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    Posted by Prophet Tenebrae (U5995226) on Sunday, 25th November 2012

    I won't deny Owen Jones had facts to hand - in fact, he himself at one point stopped himself from rattling off a long list of Israel crimes to humanise the tragedy by bringing up Jihad Masharawi's dead son before launching into some juicy quotes to portray Israeli politicians as warmongers before finally setting out his solution for the conflict - which seems to be Israel giving Palestine everything they want.

    Yes, what an even handed and unbiased view of the situation!

    "Oh but Prophet, you're just making that all up, it wasn't like that at all!"

    www.youtube.com/watc...

    I beg to differ.

    That the left has been historically more sympathetic toward Palestine - well, your mileage may vary with that one but I fail to see how calling a gross oversimplification facile nonsense is "politically-loaded".

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  • Message 37

    , in reply to message 22.

    Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Monday, 26th November 2012

    I was disappointed in how unrepresentative the panel was to deal with an Anglican decision. Two Catholics and no one to present the decision passed 
    It was interesting to hear Yvette Cooper refer to the Church of England as being 'our national church' while Scotsman Charles Kennedy was sat on her right. Yet another example of a UK politician on 'Question Time' casually conflating England with the UK.

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  • Message 38

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    Posted by Portly (U1381981) ** on Monday, 26th November 2012

    Yet another example of a UK politician on 'Question Time' casually conflating England with the UK.  

    I don't think so. The Episcopal Church in Scotland is part of the Anglican community. There are nonconformist churches all round the UK but that doesn't change the position of the C of E as the Established Church.

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  • Message 39

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    Posted by Vizzer aka U_numbers (U2011621) on Monday, 26th November 2012

    The Scottish Episcopal Church is not the established church of Scotland. It only accounts for 1% of the people there and none of its bishops sits in the UK House of Lords. Neither does any official representative of the much larger presbyterian Church of Scotland.

    Similarly none of the Church of Ireland bishops representing dioceses in Northern Ireland sit in the House of Lords and neither do any of the Church in Wales bishops. And the Bishop of Truro representing the Cornish diocese is also currently not a Lord Spiritual.

    The fact that Yvette Cooper casually referred to the Anglican Church as being 'our national church' without making clear exactly which nation was being referred to is, therefore, a case in point. Even then, however, (and as Owen Jones rightly pointed out) many people in England are not Anglican and many of us English are not even Christian.

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  • Message 40

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    Posted by BooBoo2 (U1168789) on Monday, 26th November 2012

    Owen Jones is the most pathetic representation of aggressive ignorance I have ever had the misfortune to listen to. His shouted rhetoric only served to make him appear as an utter buffoon particularly when he was unable to remove his blinkers and engage with other panellists. And unlike any other panellists I have ever seen before he just could not participate in debate, simply sticking to his rehearsed speeches delivered with red-faced anger. Indeed he made the likes of Medhi Hasan, Mellanie Phillips or Peter Hichens appear positively receptive and even-minded.

    And the squeals of delight from parts of the audience when Jones launched into another diatribe says more about them rather than the words spat out.

    I have no problem with heated debate and extremes in opinion but surely QT at the very least should consider panellists who have the ability to debate and not just shout and interrupt in indignant puerility.

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  • Message 41

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    Posted by Dark_Horse (U872233) on Monday, 26th November 2012

    Owen Jones is the most pathetic representation of aggressive ignorance I have ever had the misfortune to listen to. His shouted rhetoric only served to make him appear as an utter buffoon particularly when he was unable to remove his blinkers and engage with other panellists. And unlike any other panellists I have ever seen before he just could not participate in debate, simply sticking to his rehearsed speeches delivered with red-faced anger. Indeed he made the likes of Medhi Hasan, Mellanie Phillips or Peter Hichens appear positively receptive and even-minded.

    And the squeals of delight from parts of the audience when Jones launched into another diatribe says more about them rather than the words spat out.

    I have no problem with heated debate and extremes in opinion but surely QT at the very least should consider panellists who have the ability to debate and not just shout and interrupt in indignant puerility.
     
    So please to see that you are open minded on the subject of Owen Jones smiley - winkeye

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  • Message 42

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    Posted by Portly (U1381981) ** on Monday, 26th November 2012

    Owen Jones is the most pathetic representation of aggressive ignorance I have ever had the misfortune to listen to.  

    It's a bit sad that he has a degree from Oxford University so if he chose to, he would presumably be able to discuss a point properly instead of shouting his slogans.

    His tactics are rather reminiscent of those employed by Derek Hatton when Militant Tendency were in control of Liverpool Council in the 1980's.

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  • Message 44

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    Posted by Thuban (U8349152) ** on Monday, 26th November 2012

    Owen Jones is the most pathetic representation of aggressive ignorance I have ever had the misfortune to listen to. His shouted rhetoric only served to make him appear as an utter buffoon particularly when he was unable to remove his blinkers and engage with other panellists. 

    It might be an idea to check before rushing into misguided judgements:

    en.wikipedia.org/wik...29

    And the squeals of delight from parts of the audience when Jones launched into another diatribe says more about them rather than the words spat out. 

    It appears you didn't like the audience much either ... too plebeian for you perhaps?

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  • Message 45

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    Posted by Sheumais (U14594517) on Monday, 26th November 2012

    Owen Jones seems to be largely ignorant of the situation in Gaza and Israel, but perhaps he is inclined merely to seek to reinforce his prejudice than sufficient information on which to form an objective opinion. The gentleman in the audience did point out partly where he was going wrong with regard to boundaries, but ignoring the respective purpose of the governments is inexcusable. If Jones is to be persuasive he should try to develop at least the appearance he is willing to consider the opinion of others.

    All being relative, I didn't think he was quite as bad as the last time he appeared. That is not praise.

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  • Message 46

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    Posted by Grandadpop (U3054464) on Monday, 26th November 2012

    Thuban, you'r Wikipedia link doesn't work. Do you have another?

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  • Message 47

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    Posted by Thuban (U8349152) ** on Monday, 26th November 2012

    So I see, Grandadpop.

    I don't know what's up with it but try this one:

    https://www.google....

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  • Message 48

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    Posted by Grandadpop (U3054464) on Tuesday, 27th November 2012

    Thanks Thuban. The link worked this time.

    .

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