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IAN TOMLINSON

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Messages: 101 - 121 of 121
  • Message 101

    , in reply to message 100.

    Posted by Limehouse-cut European (U7580688) on Friday, 10th April 2009

    WE DON’T KNOW?!!!!! Perhaps you should view the second video on the Guardian on line. This one shows the policeman smashing Mr Tomlinson in the back of the legs. I do mean smashing.

    I see Sky news have stated that the uniformed thug that assaulted Mr Tomlinson, still hasn't been interviewed. So you know this will be another police white-wash.

    Has anyone asked why the Westmister CCTV cameras were turned off. Do you think Boris Johnson, might ask the reason........

    Report message1

  • Message 102

    , in reply to message 101.

    Posted by AnthonyJ (U203374) on Friday, 10th April 2009

    I see Sky news have stated that the uniformed thug that assaulted Mr Tomlinson, still hasn't been interviewed. So you know this will be another police white-wash. 
    He's been suspended and will probably be interviewed in due course.

    Report message2

  • Message 103

    , in reply to message 102.

    Posted by Limehouse-cut European (U7580688) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/...

    Anyone going?.......

    Report message3

  • Message 104

    , in reply to message 103.

    Posted by Jaytee-and-katz (U9969158) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    I haven't read everything on here but I'd like to add my thoughts anyway.

    While I believe that the police are now no more than a lot of bully boys, I know from my experience of heart problems that if you have a heart attack at the age of 47 because someone aggressively shoves you to the ground, you already have a hidden heart problem. The heart is a very strong muscle and being shoved to the ground isn't enough to make a healthy person have a heart attack.

    I'm not in any way making excuses for the way in which that policeman shoved Ian Tomlinson. It was appalling. I also can't comment on the news coverage as I only saw the bit where they showed the video of what had happened.

    Report message4

  • Message 105

    , in reply to message 104.

    Posted by Alf Hartigan (U2277114) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    Sat, 11 Apr 2009 10:43 GMT, in reply to jaytee (with a glass of Champagne to her lips)and-katz in message 104

    I can't help but wonder whether the Police would have waited this long to interview a member of the public, had they pushed a Police Officer to the ground who had later died.

    Report message5

  • Message 106

    , in reply to message 105.

    Posted by ARENA (U3567614) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    The fact that the man died ,is a side issue. Perhaps he did have a weak heart.
    The crux of the matter is ,that the police are there to maintain order and only to use force if necessary. He (the policeman in question) had no call to do what he did. He appears to be a bully. It has long been accepted that bullies join the police force to fulfil their desire.They must be weeded out.
    This man's gung-ho attitude, whilst acting in a position of trust, gives rise to the police in general losing their esteem with the public.
    This must not be allowed to happen.

    Report message6

  • Message 107

    , in reply to message 106.

    Posted by Jaytee-and-katz (U9969158) on Saturday, 11th April 2009


    I can't help but wonder whether the Police would have waited this long to interview a member of the public, had they pushed a Police Officer to the ground who had later died.  
    If a member of the public had done the same thing to a policeman, they would probably be in a police cell by now!!

    It has long been accepted that bullies join the police force to fulfil their desire.They must be weeded out. 
    You must be kidding! There would be no one left !!

    Report message7

  • Message 108

    , in reply to message 104.

    Posted by ZhanZhuang1945 (U13690780) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    posted by jaytee (with a glass of Champagne to her lips)and-katz. .....While I believe that the police are now no more than a lot of bully boys,...... 

    Oh my god, back to stereotyping smiley - doh. Let me educate you my friend.

    A family member of mine was a manager for BT and highly thought of. BT did their best to keep him. At 45yrs he has just joined the Met Police and has taken a substantial pay cut to boot. A nicer bloke you couldn’t wish to meet. He has joined the police because he wants to experience greater job satisfaction in respect of managing people and events in an effort to ‘make a difference’- in the name of social justice.

    He certainly is not a bully boy: just like 99% of the police service.

    So please keep your childlike insults to yourself.

    Geoff

    Report message8

  • Message 109

    , in reply to message 108.

    Posted by newmelinda (U7776647) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    Just been listening to a Police Officer on the radio who said "We don't know if Mr Tomlinson had an on-going heart problem or something like that, we will have to see". I think when one is smashed on the back of the legs and then heavily shoved in ones back when one has ones hands in ones pockets it shouldn't come as a shock that a person might have a heart attack.

    Report message9

  • Message 110

    , in reply to message 109.

    Posted by Jaytee-and-katz (U9969158) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    Let me educate you my friend.  
    ... and allow me to tell you something 'my friend'

    When I had a stalker for TWO YEARS, the police couldn't have cared less. They stood by and watched while a complete stranger vandalised my car, tried to break my windows, left disgusting messages on my answerphone and rang me night and day and at all hours.

    Finally this person tried to break into my home at 2.45a.m. I was alone and I was terrified. By that time the police knew who it was and why it was happening. Did they do anything? NO THEY DIDN'T. They told me they'd spoken to all my neighbours about it and none of them had seen or heard anything. LIES! They hadn't spoken to any of my neighbours. I asked them all.
    In fact, it was one of the neighbours who was doing these awful things.

    I was patronised and treated like I was making it up until I managed to get a tape recording of what the person was saying. It had taken me two years to get some help, by which time it was too late and I had moved out of my home.

    Yes, your friend may be a decent policeman. I'm not saying he isn't. However, my experiences are not the same as yours, so don't be so rude.

    Report message10

  • Message 111

    , in reply to message 109.

    Posted by bluegiant (U3472710) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    I think when one is smashed on the back of the legs and then heavily shoved in ones back when one has ones hands in ones pockets it shouldn't come as a shock that a person might have a heart attack. 

    Remarkable. Where did you get YOUR medical qualification?

    It's a very valid point.

    A person of apparently average build in their forties in good health is unlikely to have a heart attack because of a push in the back, regardless of how hard.

    I just checked. My girlfriend is a cardiac nurse. SHE actually has some knowledge of the subject, you see.

    Report message11

  • Message 112

    , in reply to message 111.

    Posted by ARENA (U3567614) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    A person of apparently average build in their forties in good health is unlikely to have a heart attack because of a push in the back, regardless of how hard.
    .................................................
    So unless the attack results in a fatality, carry on constable smiley - huh

    Report message12

  • Message 113

    , in reply to message 112.

    Posted by bluegiant (U3472710) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    A person of apparently average build in their forties in good health is unlikely to have a heart attack because of a push in the back, regardless of how hard.
    .................................................
    So unless the attack results in a fatality, carry on constable smiley - huh 


    No. Just that one can't make assumptions about a persons health.

    To assume that the policemans actions were an obvious and inevitable factor in a man having a heart attack is simplistic and foolish.

    Is a policeman who randomly attacks an unarmed man walking away from him (allegedly) in the wrong?

    Hell yes!

    Can we assume that the push had a direct link to the heart attack?

    Not necessarily, no.

    People in gppd health do not drop dead of heart attacks simply because they are pushed to the floor. The most likely cause is an underlying heart problem that we don't know about. Certainly the police wouldn't have known about it. Possibly Ian Tomlinson didn't even know about it.

    To state that anyone treated in a similar fashion is likely to have a heart attack, as several previous posters have, beggars belief.

    And before I am misquoted, or selectively quoted, I AM NOT AN APOLOGIST FOR THE POLICEMANS ACTIONS IN THIS CASE. I JUST DON'T AGREE THAT THE POSTERS ON THIS PARTICULAR ASPECT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

    Thank you.

    Report message13

  • Message 114

    , in reply to message 112.

    Posted by alansmithee (U1690014) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    "When I had a stalker for TWO YEARS, the police couldn't have cared less. They stood by and watched while a complete stranger vandalised my car, tried to break my windows, left disgusting messages on my answerphone and rang me night and day and at all hours.

    Finally this person tried to break into my home at 2.45a.m. I was alone and I was terrified. By that time the police knew who it was and why it was happening. Did they do anything? NO THEY DIDN'T. They told me they'd spoken to all my neighbours about it and none of them had seen or heard anything. LIES! They hadn't spoken to any of my neighbours. I asked them all.
    In fact, it was one of the neighbours who was doing these awful things.

    I was patronised and treated like I was making it up until I managed to get a tape recording of what the person was saying. It had taken me two years to get some help, by which time it was too late and I had moved out of my home.

    Yes, your friend may be a decent policeman. I'm not saying he isn't. However, my experiences are not the same as yours, so don't be so rude."


    Firstly, I find it sad that you seek to tar all police with the same brush because of a single experience.

    The experience you describe above is also coloured from your own perspective, and makes no attempt to understand how the police and the law have to proceed in cases like this.

    You say the police 'stood by and watched'. Hardly. That sounds like you are being overly dramatic.

    You also say they 'knew who it was'. They may have had a good idea, as in most of these cases they often do - but they need actual, physical proof. You also don't say whether you actually witnessed this person carrying out these acts. Oh, I am sure you knew who it was - but you have to give the police something solid, not just saying 'I KNOW who it is!'.

    And I suspect your neighbours reluctance to speak to police may have been because they did not want to get involved, especially as the person was one of your neighbours, and probably feared reprisals.

    And I'm afraid a tape recording would not have done you any good, they do not constitute evidence in law.

    Installing a CCTV camera at the beginning would have been far more effective, and would have saved you a lot of hassle.

    Report message14

  • Message 115

    , in reply to message 114.

    Posted by alansmithee (U1690014) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    "I think when one is smashed on the back of the legs and then heavily shoved in ones back when one has ones hands in ones pockets it shouldn't come as a shock that a person might have a heart attack."


    If you look at the video, he barely reacted at all when hit on the back of the legs. If it had been as hard as people say, he would surely have cried out, whipped round, said something etc. Nothing.

    And I think the main reason he fell was because he had his hands in his pockets and was caught off balance, not that the push was that violent.

    Even when sitting on the floor, he was seen clearly compus mentus, shouting back at the police, obviously angry but otherwise unscathed. Then he gets up and walks away.

    I still do not know why anyone would saunter in front of an advancing line of policemen in the middle of a protest.

    Report message15

  • Message 116

    , in reply to message 115.

    Posted by Limehouse-cut European (U7580688) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    This is from todays Guardian. Didn't see anything on the BBC. It was on Sky News.

    "Earlier, a former senior police officer said that the policeman filmed assaulting Tomlinson should be suspended from duty and arrested.

    Brian Paddick, a former Metropolitan police deputy assistant commissioner, said public confidence in the force could be damaged if it did not take "decisive action".

    He warned that the Met could be open to accusations of double standards when dealing with officers suspected of wrongdoing.

    The officer, who has not been named, was expected to be questioned today under criminal caution by the Independent Police Complaints Commission .

    He identified himself to his manager and the IPCC yesterday [>>> as fresh pictures suggested he had removed his shoulder number and covered his face with a balaclava before hitting Tomlinson with a baton and then pushing him to the ground <<<] on Cornhill, in the City of London, last Wednesday."

    For all you police apologists. it also turns out that there are some disturbing facts surrounding the "police" pathologist that carried out the original post-mortem....

    Report message16

  • Message 117

    , in reply to message 115.

    Posted by Limehouse-cut European (U7580688) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    I still do not know why anyone would saunter in front of an advancing line of policemen in the middle of a protest. 

    So that makes the assault all right then does it. It's a bit like saying she was raped because her skirt was too short.... With your moral compass it's a wonder you know which way you're heading.

    Report message17

  • Message 118

    , in reply to message 115.

    Posted by bootjangler (U880875) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    Methinks Alan Smithee should learn how to quote.
    All his posts start with a statement as if he's saying it about himself.

    Do this:

    < quote >
    Paste the text here
    < /quote >
    Then write your reply here

    Leave the spaces within the brackets out.

    Report message18

  • Message 119

    , in reply to message 117.

    Posted by Gonzo the Legendary Detective (U13881245) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    Sat, 11 Apr 2009 13:37 GMT, in reply to Limehouse-Cut. (Still Solvent.) in message 117

    No, it is not the same. When I was living in New York, walking to work, I stumbled into the middle of a police raid, where guns were drawn and being fired. I was stopped just in time by a policeman who warned me that, if I had gone a few yards further, I ran the risk of being shot, because in the heat of the situation, there is not always time to ask, it is often a split second decision to act, or not; and sometimes they get it wrong.

    Report message19

  • Message 120

    , in reply to message 117.

    Posted by alansmithee (U1690014) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    So that makes the assault all right then does it. It's a bit like saying she was raped because her skirt was too short.... With your moral compass it's a wonder you know which way you're heading. 


    Are you asking a question or making a statement?

    It is right that the officer in this case needs to justify his actions, not least explain why he removed his number and badge, and covered his face. I am certainly not absolving him of blame, and questions do need to be asked.

    But we also cannot deny the possibility that Mr Tomlinson may not have been entirely blameless either.

    Quite simply, we don't know the full facts of the events that took place that day, all we are seeing is bits of video footage, and hearing disjointed witness statements.

    One statement alleges that Tomlinson was hit by the police with batons before the incident we saw on the video, while another claims he was also seen obstructing a police van.

    Report message20

  • Message 121

    , in reply to message 108.

    Posted by ZhanZhuang1945 (U13690780) on Saturday, 11th April 2009

    posted by jaytee (with a glass of Champagne to her lips)and-katz. .....While I believe that the police are now no more than a lot of bully boys,...... 

    If you READ my previous post properly I was challenging your stereotypical statement concerning all police officers. Your quote repeated " While I believe that the police are now no more than a lot of bully boys,......"


    Whilst I sympathise with your frightening dilemma ONE BAD experience with the police doesn’t make them all bully boys. Also, if there was a level of inefficiency concerning the police in your case, that doesn’t make them bully boys. Just inefficient officers on that occasion. Logical, YES?

    Although it has already been intimated, I bet there was more to your case than you or we know about, making the case difficult for the police to reach a satisfactory conclusion. Unless you were a 'bully boy' like I was for 30yrs you would'nt know that.

    Please keep a sense of proportion.


    geoff

    Report message21

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