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Sign Language.

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  • Message 1. 

    Posted by Charley Farley (U13513932) on Tuesday, 21st January 2014

    Does anyone know if it's possible to switch off the sign language person usually situated at the bottom right on SL programs. I know it isn't the beeb but on Coronation street omnibus (Saturday and Sunday mornings) the sign language is permanently on. I'm sure the beeb has SL on various programs so can it be removed, just as the subtitles can be on or off?

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  • Message 2

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    Posted by dayraven (U13717520) on Tuesday, 21st January 2014

    Far as I know, when a signer is present, they're always part of the transmitted image and can't be separated from it.

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    Posted by wolfie (U15842015) on Tuesday, 21st January 2014

    yes im afraid you cant do anything about it...



    ive just checked and on both omnibuses at the weekend they have sign language....



    if it annoys you so much I guess the only alternative is to record the shows during the week and watch them in one go....

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    Posted by Geometry_Man (U12739007) ** on Tuesday, 21st January 2014

    Far as I know, when a signer is present, they're always part of the transmitted image and can't be separated from it.  Yes, correct - so the answer to the OP is no it isn't possible.

    Broadcasters have been trying for years to find a feasible way of providing switch-offable signing. It's technically difficult.

    As I understand it the problem is that, unlike subtitles, signing takes up too much "bandwidth" to be transmitted as a separate stream, so has to be incorporated as part of the main picture.

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    Posted by Charley Farley (U13513932) on Tuesday, 21st January 2014

    Thanks for your replies. I didn't think it was possible but you never know.

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    Posted by MG_man (U15909608) on Friday, 24th January 2014

    yes im afraid you cant do anything about it...



    ive just checked and on both omnibuses at the weekend they have sign language....



    if it annoys you so much I guess the only alternative is to record the shows during the week and watch them in one go.... 
    Broadcasters could all put out the SL progs late at night, as BBC4 often does when repeating something shown earlier in the evening.

    The whole point of an omnibus is to benefit those who either cannot watch during the week, or want to see it all again. So having two omnibuses shown would surely please more people still, but at the end of the day it is probably all down to money...

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    Posted by Pampy (U1022836) ** on Friday, 24th January 2014

    yes im afraid you cant do anything about it...



    ive just checked and on both omnibuses at the weekend they have sign language....



    if it annoys you so much I guess the only alternative is to record the shows during the week and watch them in one go.... 
    Broadcasters could all put out the SL progs late at night, as BBC4 often does when repeating something shown earlier in the evening.

    The whole point of an omnibus is to benefit those who either cannot watch during the week, or want to see it all again. So having two omnibuses shown would surely please more people still, but at the end of the day it is probably all down to money... 
    Why should deaf people be forced to watch programmes late at night? Let's have a bit of balance here - the percentage of programmes that are signed is low and as far as I know, most are restricted to repeats of previously transmitted material that wasn't signed.

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    Posted by Vox_Populi (U3226170) on Friday, 24th January 2014

    As a lot of TV's today have adjustable picture sizes, would it be possible to have the signers outside the picture being shown so if a deaf person wants the signing all he would have to do is reduce his picture size and it would be in view.
    Is this technically possible?.

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  • Message 9

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    Posted by dayraven (U13717520) on Friday, 24th January 2014

    Is this technically possible? 
    If it *could* work, which I'm none too sure about, it would be the other way round -- the signer would be in the full picture, and someone who didn't want them there would have to adjust the picture to the point where they'd be chopped out. I'm not sure quite how large the variation on display settings are on most TVs -- possibly not enough to have the signer at a useful size while also being croppable.

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  • Message 10

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    Posted by aquarius (U8185439) on Friday, 24th January 2014

    I may be a bit dense here, but surely those people who are hearing impaired can select subtitles.

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    Posted by GZ (U5310554) on Friday, 24th January 2014

    I am totally unfamiliar with the concept of TV programmes that feature signing. We dont have that in the US - with maybe the exception of a segment here and there in some childrens programmes.

    I guess my question would be why the need for a person doing sign language when nearly every programme has closed captioning.

    Is it for viewers who know sign language but dont speak or read English?

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  • Message 12

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    Posted by Guv-nor (U7476305) on Friday, 24th January 2014

    'The sign interpreter' is translating the words into British Sign Language (BSL).

    www.bbc.co.uk/access...

    Note that BSL is a different language to English, which is why normal subtitles are not so good for people who were brought up talking BSL. It is even a different language to ASL (American Sign Language) so learning BSL won't help watching NCIS.

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  • Message 13

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    Posted by Geometry_Man (U12739007) ** on Friday, 24th January 2014

    One invention that I know works, because a previous board host said they had seen a demonstration of it, is having the signing done by an electronically generated "avatar" built into the receiving equipment instead of by a human. This gets round the bandwidth problem because it is only necessary to transmit a series of coded instructions to the avatar instead of a whole picture, so in theory all programmes could carry optional signing.

    The snag is everyone wanting to watch a signed programme would need a special TV set which has this capability - so maybe the idea won't get off the launch pad!

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  • Message 14

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    Posted by GZ (U5310554) on Friday, 24th January 2014



    Note that BSL is a different language to English, which is why normal subtitles are not so good for people who were brought up talking BSL.
     


    So then the signing is for the hearing impaired that dont read or speak English. Thanks Guv-nor. smiley - ok


    It is even a different language to ASL (American Sign Language) so learning BSL won't help watching NCIS.
     


    NCIS never has sign language on it - not as its broadcast in the US anyway.

    Just subtitles and Spanish dubbing which can be switched on using the SAP feature.

    That is why I said I am completely unfamiliar with the concept of signers on TV shows. Its something we dont have. Not that I have ever seen outside of some segments on Sesame Street and some other childrens shows anyway.

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    Posted by heterodox (U14291406) on Friday, 24th January 2014

    If the feature of sign language is useful to someone I'm not about to complain about it but I've often wondered how many people are deaf and unable to read a text in English.
    I can easily see the point of sign language in ordinary discourse because that is not accompanied by a line of written text but won't subtitles answer the need of the vast majority? Sign language, as I understand things, is an international means of communication and so the service will benefit foreigners but I would have thought a person with English as a first language would have found it as easy to learn to read English as to understand sign language.

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  • Message 16

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    Posted by Sue_Aitch (U3336990) on Friday, 24th January 2014

    Captioning/subtitling still doesn't have the advantage that signing has in converying tone.

    See some of the Ouch! articles here www.bbc.co.uk/ouch/w... for the views of someone from the Deaf community.

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  • Message 17

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    Posted by Guv-nor (U7476305) on Friday, 24th January 2014

    NCIS never has sign language on it - not as its broadcast in the US anyway. 

    Sorry GZ, I was referring to in story interactions between Abby Sciuto (Pauley Perrette) and Leroy Jethro Gibbs (Mark Harmon) if I remember correctly both of which speak ASL for reasons that currently escape my memory.

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  • Message 18

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    Posted by GZ (U5310554) on Friday, 24th January 2014



    the advantage that signing has in converying tone.
     


    Thats interesting.

    I wonder - does focusing on the signer at all take away from being able to focus on the images on screen?

    With captioning, the captions are centered and generally within the same line of sight as the on screen action.

    It sounds from the descriptions here that the signer is in a small box in the corner of the screen - like a DOG?

    Perhaps someone who is hearing impaired could give some insight.

    I was at a play one time in a small community theatre and there was a signer - but she was standing off stage left.

    On the one had I felt it provided a nice service to any hearing impaired people in the audience, at the same time, where she was standing would completely take their eyes off of what was happening on stage.

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  • Message 19

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    Posted by GZ (U5310554) on Friday, 24th January 2014



    Sorry GZ, I was referring to in story interactions between Abby Sciuto (Pauley Perrette) and Leroy Jethro Gibbs (Mark Harmon) if I remember correctly both of which speak ASL for reasons that currently escape my memory.
     


    Gotcha Guv-nor. My apologies as wel for not realising you meant characters doing sign language within the context of the show.

    There was the episode of Big Bang Theory where Raj was dating the deaf woman and Howard taged along on their first date to translate in sign language, his character being said to be fluent in ASL - I cant recall why.

    I wonder if the actor was really signing or just making random hand movements.

    The deaf actress Marlee Matlin often does sign in the body of the show as she plays characters who are deaf.

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  • Message 20

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    Posted by Geometry_Man (U12739007) ** on Friday, 24th January 2014

    It sounds from the descriptions here that the signer is in a small box in the corner of the screen - like a DOG? 
    The signer is generally bottom right and is not small, occupying perhaps 10% of the screen - e.g. idontknowjack.files....

    It's very distracting for those who don't need it, hence the long search for a way of making them switch-offable.

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