Communicate!  permalink

About universe

This discussion has been closed.

Messages: 1 - 50 of 66
  • Message 1. 

    Posted by kelesbay (U15354063) on Tuesday, 24th July 2012

    we see that our universe is has been designed with its causes and results.How can ıt be apprehensible.

    Report message1

  • Message 2

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Tuesday, 24th July 2012

    Hi! Kelesbay!
    This topic is attracted me, so, I would like to write some words, if you don't mind...
    Yes, We look at things which appear to be causes and effects in the universe and we see that the most elevated cause possesses insufficient power for the most ordinary effect. This means that causes are a veil, and something else makes the effects.
    Regards, Zek...

    Report message2

  • Message 3

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Alex S (U4744604) on Wednesday, 25th July 2012

    Did you notice, Zek what word used Kelesbay? "Designed"! (Not "created"!) Very wise! Actually I wanted to tell you about it, but just didn't manage...

    Report message3

  • Message 4

    , in reply to message 3.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Thursday, 26th July 2012

    Hi Alex! How are you?
    In fact, this topic enters in my professional field of which I have studied in my religious education...
    So, it is attracted my attention and entered in this thread, I hope Kelesbay shall allow me...
    Yes Alex, Kelesbay used the word "designed" instead of "created", But there is no difference in my view. That is, created, designed, formed, etc. All of them make my mind consider and ask that WHO designed?, WHO created? and WHO formed?...
    Let's look at a tree with its flowers and its fruits...
    Indeed, the existence of a brightly DESIGNED and brilliantly ADORNED flower, a most artfully conceived and bejewelled fruit on a twig as thin as a wire, affixed to a dry, bonelike tree - this is without doubt a proclamation to all animate beings of the fine arts produced by a most skilled, wise and miraculous MAKER....

    Report message4

  • Message 5

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by Nori (U4687824) on Thursday, 26th July 2012

    Dear all,

    Universe is just one of natural phenomena. It is what it is.

    By the way, I would like to give a great credit to Mr. Peter Higgs who believed in the existence of Higgs particle. If there weren't Higgs bosom, then there would't be stars, planets, galaxies and all the matters. All that there would be electrons or elementary particles which move at the speed of light.

    Someday in the future, the Sun would die, but before the Sun dies, our planet would be destroyed by the enormous hot sun. The end of human beings unless we find a planet suitable for lving. However, there isn't any....in our Milky Way.

    Nori

    Report message5

  • Message 6

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by Alex S (U4744604) on Thursday, 26th July 2012

    Hi, Nori!

    Don't worry! When the Sun will burn out its fuel... our Planet will be already "dead" and cold.... And the "Human" civilization will "die down" far before this! It is obvious. But... don't worry! We won't see it anyway! smiley - biggrin

    And why do you think that there is no such planet like ours in our Galaxy? I'm sure there are plenty of them! But they are awfully far away.... Virtually "out of reach"...

    Do you still can't comprehend the idea of INFINITY? You know - the main problem of the people (both religious and not) that they can't imagine that increadible amount of time and huge spaces..... Billions and billions of "items" like stars, genes....

    Report message6

  • Message 7

    , in reply to message 6.

    Posted by Nori (U4687824) on Friday, 27th July 2012

    Alex,

    I believe that there is no planet like ours in our galaxy which has living creatures. Earth is just at the right position from the sun. Not hot, neither cold. This is why life has flouriished on our planet. And in addition, water, which is the most essential thing for the living creatures, is undoubtfully needed life to appear.

    In our galaxy, I guess that there isn't any other planet which has the same condition or environment as Earth. Do you agree?? Do you think that there is another sun in our galaxy and another planet like Earth suitable for life to exist??

    Our planet is very unique. It allows life because there is adequate warmth from the Sun, water, oxygen and others.

    Nori

    Report message7

  • Message 8

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Friday, 27th July 2012

    Dear all,

    Universe is just one of natural phenomena. It is what it is.

    By the way, I would like to give a great credit to Mr. Peter Higgs who believed in the existence of Higgs particle. If there weren't Higgs bosom, then there would't be stars, planets, galaxies and all the matters. All that there would be electrons or elementary particles which move at the speed of light.

    Someday in the future, the Sun would die, but before the Sun dies, our planet would be destroyed by the enormous hot sun. The end of human beings unless we find a planet suitable for lving. However, there isn't any....in our Milky Way.

    Nori 
    Hi Nori!
    It is interesting that the scientists have named the particle as " God particle". I don't know what they mean, but according to me, at least, they have come close to the real. smiley - smiley
    That is, God makes everything out of one thing and makes one thing out of everything. For instance, look at yourself, consider! God makes the innumerable members and systems of your body out of a fluid. Do you know the fluid or spermatozoon?...
    Thus, to make one thing everything is surely the work of One possessing Absolute Power. And One Who with perfect order transforms into a particular body numerous substances from the innumerable foods eaten, whether plant or animal, and weaves from them a particular skin, and makes from them members, is surely One Powerful over All Things and One Knowing of All Things.
    Yes, "God particle" had mentioned in a commentary of Qur'an which had written by Bediuzzaman many years ago. That is, we have known this article as named " ether" ...
    Let's look at what Bediuzzaman has written;
    "It is required by wisdom and by reason that the heavens are formed of ether, that they are the source of subtle energies like electricity, light, heat, and gravity"

    "It is established by science and philosophy that limitless space is not an infinite vacuum, but filled with matter called ether."

    "It is established by science and reason, and indeed by observation, that the bond of the laws governing the heavenly bodies like those of attraction and repulsion, and the conductor and transmitter of forces in matter like light, heat, and electricity is a matter which fills space." etc...

    Report message8

  • Message 9

    , in reply to message 6.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Friday, 27th July 2012

    Hi Alex!
    As you say, increadible amount of time and huge spaces..... Billions and billions of "items" like stars, genes.... 
    Universe certainly is magnificent, wonderful and so extremely well ordered, like a huge kingdom...
    I would like to ask, please just answer this question;
    "Every village must have its headman; every needle must have its manufacturer and craftsman. And, as you know, every letter must be written by someone. How, then, can it be that so extremely well-ordered a kingdom should have no ruler?

    Report message9

  • Message 10

    , in reply to message 7.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Friday, 27th July 2012

    Hi Nori, Alex and all!
    From some words, I understand that mankind need some truths which I definitely know, I will indicate what the truths but firstly let's analyze some words, as follows;

    Nori says: Someday in the future, the Sun would die, but before the Sun dies, our planet would be destroyed by the enormous hot sun.  
    Yes, logically Nori saw the reality of The end of The world which is actually mentioned in Qur'an...

    And then, Nori says remedilessly
    The end of human beings unless we find a planet suitable for lving. However, there isn't any....in our Milky Way. 
    But Qur'an tells a good news to the people "Prepare yourselves; you will go to another and permanent realm, a realm such that this one will appear as a dungeon by comparison. You will go to the seat of rule of our king, and there receive his compassion and his bounty...

    And Alex reply to Nori: Don't worry! When the Sun will burn out its fuel... our Planet will be already "dead" and cold.... And the "Human" civilization will "die down" far before this! It is obvious. But... don't worry! We won't see it anyway!  
    O my God, what a heavy-hearted reply and explanation!!! smiley - sadface
    Dear Alex and Nori, we believe in God, so, we learn all reports which, are about what will happen?, from His messengers and Holy Books...it is the most certain and obvious... If you are curious, I can tell them...

    And also Alex add this statement: And why do you think that there is no such planet like ours in our Galaxy? I'm sure there are plenty of them! But they are awfully far away.... Virtually "out of reach"... 
    Let me reply to this statement, indeed, there is a plenty place like which you call planet, and besides all divine religions know this place which named as "Paradise"

    Nori reply to Alex and say that: I believe that there is no planet like ours in our galaxy which has living creatures. Earth is just at the right position from the sun. Not hot, neither cold. This is why life has flouriished on our planet. And in addition, water, which is the most essential thing for the living creatures, is undoubtfully needed life to appear. 
    You are right Nori I agree with you here. But you have to accept the reasonable real, God alone grants life. That is, the giver of life is He. The one who causes life to continue by means of sustenance is again He. And also, There is One WHO balanced the universe and the world which was made suitable to life...

    Finally Nori asked: I guess that there isn't any other planet which has the same condition or environment as Earth. Do you agree?? Do you think that there is another sun in our galaxy and another planet like Earth suitable for life to exist??  
    Certainly, there is a place where is destination of us...

    I announce to all "If I had not wanted to give, I would not have given wanting."
    In that case, we want and desire the happiness of the eternal life after death...smiley - rose
    And wait it from God... smiley - smiley

    Best wishes, Zek...

    Report message10

  • Message 11

    , in reply to message 9.

    Posted by Alex S (U4744604) on Friday, 27th July 2012

    Neither needle, nor village are not NATURAL. You know pretty well, that god is unable to "create" those things. Because CREATIVITY is a feature of a human being! God can "design", but that's another story... And our World is not "well-ordered". It is just NATURAL - moving according to "design". God "only" had to set the main constants (such as Planck constant, mass of proton, charge of electron, "speed of light".... maybe gravity constant...) and ignite the "spark" ("Big Bang").... I wonder - have you ever saw the kaleidoscope?

    Report message11

  • Message 12

    , in reply to message 11.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Saturday, 28th July 2012

    Hi Alex!
    You claim, Neither needle, nor village are not NATURAL. You know pretty well, that god is unable to "create" those things. 
    What are you based on? This claim is required a strong proof. Indeed, religious reality is based on uncountable evidences which are obviously confirmed by mind...
    I ask you, for consideration, imagine a huge car manufacture, is it at all possible a simple needle can not be made in this manufacture?... Maybe the needle isn't made there because no need any needle in this manifacture or it is handed in other small manufacturer. That is to say, you can't say at all the huge manufacture is not able to make any needle...
    Dear Alex! Do you know what "dominical Wisdom" means? If you know it, you can understand why God doesn't a simple needle or handed in human hand... But furthermore, to make a needle a craftsman needs mind, power and knowledge. In fact, all of them were given to craftsman by God...anyway...Zek...

    Report message12

  • Message 13

    , in reply to message 12.

    Posted by Alex S (U4744604) on Saturday, 28th July 2012

    The PROOF, Zek, is in the meaning of the words "ARTIFICIAL" and "NATURAL". They are not synonyms, are they? Do you remember that "Hard Talk" programme with an astronomer? What they suspected when they received the signals? Why?

    Kaleidoscope is a device with very simple DESIGN - just three long flat mirrors arranged in a triangular prism and two parallel flat glasses with a colored glass junk between them.... And you know perhaps, that using this device you can get virtually engless series of amazing symmetrical structures!

    Look at this image: www.anri.barc.usda.g...
    (they are "cross-eyed" stereocouples, but if you don't know how to see the stereo, just watch a single image) Amazing images! Isn't it? And you see that there "only" the crystals of ice! Very simple substance "made" of awfully huge number of absolutely "equal" molecules! Rather "crooked" V-shaped molecules...
    You just take water and low the temperature.... Do you CREATE those fantastic structures?

    Report message13

  • Message 14

    , in reply to message 11.

    Posted by Nori (U4687824) on Saturday, 28th July 2012

    Dear all,

    Wise people have made deep survey and research and came to a conclusion that the Universe is made from Big Ban. The theory or the hypothesis is accepted by many scientists and astronomers as well. Although we will never know the truth about how universe is formed, I think it doesn't matter much to many people. Whether we know it or not, it doesn't affect our daily living. Many people aren't interested in it because they first find food to live for today. Right? Or they have to finish their work by tomorrow. Alex is busy finding where his mobile phone is....(smile)

    Anyhow, humans could never ever solve how the universe is formed. Scientists and astronomers could make assumptions from their knowledge but they aren't sure 100%. But their intensive study has broaden our mind and given us an image of how the universe is formed.

    I often watch National Graphic TV program. They talk about the universe and how our planet is formed. It's interesting. If you have time, I strongly recommend to watch the program.

    Nori

    Report message14

  • Message 15

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by Alex S (U4744604) on Saturday, 28th July 2012

    Hi, Nori!

    Do you remember this thread?

    www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...

    It should be in your folder! smiley - biggrin

    Our Planet is much more unique than you think! Not just water and "Goldilocks Zone" position! There are more features that makes it VERY different even among the "sister" planets of the "Earth group"... But do you know how many stars are there in our Galaxy? All stars that we see in the sky at night are just "nearby" stars.... By the way, at those distances we are "separated" from other worlds not only by the huge distances, but also by... time! Thousands years on average! Can you imagine life on our Planet after several thousand years?

    By the way, I think that you meant "National GEOgraphic". Right?

    Report message15

  • Message 16

    , in reply to message 11.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Sunday, 29th July 2012

    Hi Alex! You claim that, And our World is not "well-ordered".  
    I can't understand what you mean, whereas, science is still unknowing about all world with assets in it . Is it at all possible that the unknown world is not well ordered and has no Maker?
    Please link below, you will see proof of order For God's existence.
    www.seyrangah.tv/vid...

    Report message16

  • Message 17

    , in reply to message 15.

    Posted by Nori (U4687824) on Sunday, 29th July 2012

    Alex,

    There are billions of stars in our galaxy. Probably 2,000,000,000 to 4,000,000,000 stars. However, I don't think most of them are suitable for living creatures to live.

    Wait, let me correct my words. I just checked in internet and visited some sites concerning the topic. They wrote that there must be a possibility of 14 to 140 planets in our galaxy which have intelligent life. Could we ever meet them? I guess not. Too far.

    The Earth's extreme coincidence enabled life to appear. First appeared a single-celled creature in the sea. And then fishes, reptiles, birds, animals, and finally to humans. Where do you think insects appeared? After fishes?

    Now Higgs bosom is found. I really wish astronomers to find black holes....Is it possible? These holes never let light to go through. Which means that we cannot see them. We cannot see them because they are too dark.

    I am sitting on a chair typing this message while the Earth floats in the universe and moves around the sun at 29800m/s(107280Km/h)!! Incredible....

    Nori

    Report message17

  • Message 18

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Loreley (U15339124) on Monday, 30th July 2012

    Hello everyone - here and in outer space smiley - winkeye

    after reading different messages about this topic I have the courage (regarding my English, not my thinking) now to take part in this discussion.

    I think, we all have many different opinions about nature, about God and in the end about the universe. We humans are "nonentity" from the viewpoint of the universe, and if I hear some people say, that one day we will destroy the planet - this will never happen! Before this, we will destroy ourselves; the planet will persist!

    Maybe we're living now in an era like ares of Newton or Einstein. A fews years ago, when I have heard about CERN and the LHC and their researches, I thought, this is the hugest step for science since hundred years. There is not a question of religion vs. science, but a question of limit of understanding. We will not find an answer regarding the existence of God; God exists in everything and everyone; in my opinion God is a part of nature. If I see a beautiful flower I can see God, but also I can see the evolution and all the millions of years since Big Bang until today. I think science has not yet the level to understand and interprete all results (regarding the Higgs boson particle). I remember the great book by Stephen Hawking "The Universe in a Nutshell", which means (gross summarized) we can just understand what we know ... we can't see behind the horizon if we don't know this horizon. We are caught in our own patterns of thought and paradigms. And therefore it's very important to have ambitions to get new answers and new perceptions about the beginning of everything.

    best regards
    Lena

    Report message18

  • Message 19

    , in reply to message 18.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Tuesday, 31st July 2012

    Hello Lena! How are you? You claim that,  We will not find an answer regarding the existence of God 
    I would like to ask some question to you; Have you ever been in the moon?, or have you gone to the moon?
    Your answer is certainly " no", isn't it? 
    Well, the second question; do you believe in the universal information which the scientist announced about the moon ? Surely, your answer will be "yes", is it so? 
    The third question is that; why don't you deny that information of The moon?
    I will answer to third question on behalf of you; Because the scientists who went to the moon, have unanimously announced the universal knowledge about the moon. And they tell the same information of the moon...

    Now, the final question is that, I actually wonder its answer, ; while you claim that God is a part of nature.  what do you based on?
    With this claim, you are a liar or you kill billions of people's belief which are announced by the most trusty people in the world in all time. Indeed, they announce that God has created all things and He is The Creator of all things. Even, logically they know that " the real knowledge of a product is known exactly by only its maker and its owner and the knowledge of an art is known definitely by its artist" so, you have to learn about all things from only their Creator who is all powerful and The Ruler of This Kingdom and also who reports the knowledge of this universe in Qur'an...
    And you can't deny the reality of about God... Why? for answer look the third question and its answer... Briefly, I answer again, certainly, one hundred and twenty-four thousand prophets (Peace be upon them) together with innumerable saints and people of truth have unanimously announced the universe's Creator...
    Best wishes, Zek...

    Report message19

  • Message 20

    , in reply to message 17.

    Posted by Nori (U4687824) on Tuesday, 31st July 2012

    Dear all,

    It is wise to think that first a single celled creature appeared in the ocean which had plenty of amino acids and other substances necessary to form life. And after millions of years, these creatures evolved to fishes and other multi-celled creatures. And then some of them tried living out of the water.....

    Dinosaurs ruled the world but they disappeared. An assumption is made that they are distinguished by a big meteorite. Earth became a ghost planet for millions of years.

    But then again, life began to flourish on Earth. Today, humans rule the world. I want to emphasize here that history repeats itself. Someday in the future, same thing would occur to the Earth again. It is believe that 28,000 small and big meteorites attack our planet a year. Most of them burn before landing on the ground.

    We must be aware that "all things must pass". Where there is a beginning, there must be an end.

    Nori

    Report message20

  • Message 21

    , in reply to message 17.

    Posted by Alex S (U4744604) on Tuesday, 31st July 2012

    First appeared a single-celled creature in the sea. And then fishes, reptiles, birds, animals, and finally to humans. Where do you think insects appeared? After fishes? 

    Well, Nori! I would suggest you to read my thread "The Books you Will Never Read"! (It is on the 5th page in my folder). Definitely! Just skip the irrelevant messages.....

    Report message21

  • Message 22

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by Loreley (U15339124) on Tuesday, 31st July 2012

    Hello Zek,

    I'm very fine, thanks, and how are you?

    I suppose we both have different kinds of thinking and understanding about religion and science and the context between them. The question of God I see more from philosophical point of view than from the scientific point of view. I'm really sorry in case I hurt you with my opinion.

    But one question I have:
    Why does science try to find out the beginning of everything?

    Lena

    Report message22

  • Message 23

    , in reply to message 22.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Wednesday, 1st August 2012

    Hello Lena!
    Yes, I agree with you, as I see, we both have different kinds of thinking and understanding about religion and science and the context between them. But, in my opinion, those must be same and must be support each other. Because, we are human and we have the same disposition and nature. That is to say, man came to this world to be perfected by means of knowledge and supplication. In regard to his nature and abilities everything is tied to knowledge. And the foundation, source, light, and spirit of all true knowledge is knowledge of God, and its essence and basis is belief in God.
    So, science is the knowledge about universe and all things in it. As a result, if science is knowledge, surely the source of science is knowledge of God.
    You ask, Why does science try to find out the beginning of everything? 
    This question strengthens my claim, because science researchs the realities of universe. The realities are tied to those; 1.the beginning of everything, 2.the source of everything, 3.the reality of everything, 4.the destination of everything...
    Indeed, the beginning, the source, the reality and the destination of everything are tied to The Creator of everything. That is, God alone can know all the universe and all things in it...
    See you soonest, Zek...

    Report message23

  • Message 24

    , in reply to message 22.

    Posted by Nori (U4687824) on Sunday, 5th August 2012

    Dear Loreley,

    Your asked "Why does science try to find out the beginning of everything?"

    Since from the past when humans began wonder about the Universe, they tried to solve all the questions that they had in their mind concerning life and the Universe. These questions haven't solved yet. And I'm positive that no one can come up to the conclusion.

    One thing that I'm certain is that our ancestors are single-celled creatures or monads. Humans just did not appeared instantaneously. It took billions of years for monads to change their structures.

    Humans have a strong desire to know things which they can't solve. Our endless ambitions and eagerness made a great progress to the mankind. But what we can't solve can never be solved.

    So, instead of struglling to find out unsolvable mysteries, we'd better work hard, earn a lot and enjoy life. (smile)

    Nori

    Report message24

  • Message 25

    , in reply to message 18.

    Posted by Alex S (U4744604) on Sunday, 5th August 2012

    Hi, Lena!

    I like your message and I see that perhaps you would like to share your ideas on some issues....
    some people say, that one day we will destroy the planet - this will never happen! Before this, we will destroy ourselves; the planet will persist!  I remember your message about the travelling to the center of the Earth... smiley - biggrin You know, I never saw a thread on Science Fiction on the Board! Would you like to take a part in such thread?
    Maybe we're living now in an era like ares of Newton or Einstein. A fews years ago, when I have heard about CERN and the LHC and their researches  Again! I was thinking for some time about a discussion on CIVILIZATION! Just couldn't decide - where... Maybe to start a separate thread? What do you think?
    God exists in everything and everyone; in my opinion God is a part of nature  Maybe god is the Nature itself? smiley - biggrin
    The question of God I see more from philosophical point of view than from the scientific point of view.  What do you think about a topic "Evolution vs Intelligent Gesign"? smiley - biggrin
    But one question I have:
    Why does science try to find out the beginning of everything? 
    Alas! No more time today!

    Report message25

  • Message 26

    , in reply to message 24.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Monday, 6th August 2012

    Hi Nori!
    I'm so sorry if I hurt you, but I have to say that, actually You seem to be woolly-minded. Because,you are in difficult situation as I understand from your this words Humans have a strong desire to know things which they can't solve. Our endless ambitions and eagerness made a great progress to the mankind. But what we can't solve can never be solved. 
    in despite of this disposition you also say that So, instead of struglling to find out unsolvable mysteries, we'd better work hard, earn a lot and enjoy life. (smile)  
    In my opinion, someone who can't see the truth, doesn't want to know the truth, because he says : "I consider all my ease and enjoyment to lie in not thinking of the truth. Also, I am not going to bother with things that make no sense to me. All these things are the confused objects of chance, they are happening by themselves. What is it to me?"

    Dear Nori! Why don't you accept a Creator who created all things in the universe and nurtures all of them...
    If you don't believe in God,Certainly, your unbelief will make you be remediless towards events which are supposed as unchecked by you...

    Zek...

    Report message26

  • Message 27

    , in reply to message 25.

    Posted by Loreley (U15339124) on Monday, 6th August 2012

    Hi Zek, Alex and Nori and everyone,

    it is not my intention to hurt the feelings of one of the members here on the board ... but I took a little time for reply ... the suggestion I would

    kill billions of people's belief which are announced by the most trusty people in the world in all time 

    made me speechless and I got a red face !!!

    Zek, I would wish I could read in your words some irony, but I can't. But okay, it's over now and I think we can talk about this topic like adults - with respect and the try (and the will) for understanding another point of views. With our discussions we can't find out the "truth" about universe, evolution, God and the elements, which are basics of our life on earth. But we can share our thoughts.

    I admire people with a strong belief in God, because for me and my life such a religious faith is nearly unthinkable. I would say about myself I'm agnostic, I'm not atheist, I want to try to get to the bottom of these questions. If someone wants to determine God as the creator of everything – this is his belief in God and I respect it. But how can I accept such view as an ultimate truth? There is not a definition of the "ultimate" truth.

    And this "truth" will not help to find answers for the scientific questions of our time. Today we are able to understand a lot of our world, about the universe, about the smallest cell of living things and we are able to solve problems, which were unanswerable in the past. I want to remember on dark chapters of Christianity in Middle Ages – religion and science were enemies (althought one of the greatest scientists were believing people) for example Giordano Bruno. Today we know, he was right. It is a achievement of our time that we have a free mind and are not forced to think under depression of religious rules.

    My question "Why does science try to find out the beginning of everything?" was a sarcastic one, because scientists wan't try to find a proof for the existence of God, althouht they named the Higgs bosson "God's Particle" ... (Maybe you can it understand as a kind of respect regarding God.) What is the conclusion, if we accept God as the great creator? In order to accept this we must know the definition of God ... and from my point of view it is easier to find find every single atom and element of the Big Bang than a definition of God.

    And by the way:
    we should decide, if we speak about God or if we speak about religion - these both are different things. Okay, this say a agnostic woman, and I don't know, if a person, who beliefes in God, has the same opinion.

    until the next time - enjoy the evening!
    best regards
    Lena

    Report message27

  • Message 28

    , in reply to message 25.

    Posted by Loreley (U15339124) on Monday, 6th August 2012

    Hi Alex smiley - smiley

    Do you think it's a good idea to "catch" members with a topic like "Evolution vs. Intelligent Design" or "Civilisation"? smiley - winkeye But try it – it would be very interesting to see another opinions and the definitions of truth and to follow these discussions. But I think it will lead to a higher blood pressure smiley - biggrin

    If I want to say something about Science Fiction I must read some books by Stanislaw Lem before smiley - smiley He will give me the right preparation for everything about this topic. (okay, reading will take a too long time – I will see "Solaris"! But not the Russian movie, sorry, but the film with George Clooney – then I am able to survive the challanges of space smiley - biggrin )

    Maybe god is the Nature itself? 

    Why not? Ask a Buddhist and you will come closer to the context between God and nature smiley - smiley

    see you
    Lena

    Report message28

  • Message 29

    , in reply to message 28.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Tuesday, 7th August 2012

    Hi Lena, Alex and all!
    You say, I want to remember on dark chapters of Christianity in Middle Ages – religion and science were enemies (althought one of the greatest scientists were believing people) for example Giordano Bruno. Today we know, he was right. It is a achievement of our time that we have a free mind and are not forced to think under depression of religious rules. 
    why do you give only Christianity for instance to prove your claim which focused on irreligion? Don't you know that Islam which is a perfect religion, supports and promotes science?...

    And you ask, What is the conclusion, if we accept God as the great creator? 
    surely, there are a lot of benefits for humans who really needs God and His greatness. If we do not recognize Him and remain indifferent towards Him, there is no advantage in it at all, and if it is harmful, its harm will be immense. Whereas if we try to recognize Him, there is little hardship involved, and if there is benefit, it will be great. Therefore, it is in no way sensible to remain indifferent towards Him.
    If you are curious, you can join in my topic "about GOD", we can discuss this subject very deeply...

    And you say that, In order to accept this we must know the definition of God ... 
    yes, you are right in this point. And also, although you can't define Him with your head or your mind. Allah knows our capacity and therefore He sent His messengers to report this definition which is mentioned in Qur'an. You can research It, surely you will find many knowledges about GOD.
    Let's be honestly! Consider logically,
    How do you learn some knowledge about atom or element of Big Bang?
    Did you see any atom or did you research it through scientific expert?
    Absolutely, your answer will be "No". Well, why do you accept this scientific knowledge as a truth? In my opinion, you accept only which one is nice for your selfish soul, is it so?
    Indeed, Qur'an and Islam which you deny, both are full of pure knowledge , the real truths are announced by messengers who are more trusted than scientists whom you rely on.

    And also your view is that, and from my point of view it is easier to find find every single atom and element of the Big Bang than a definition of God. 
    indeed, you are deceived! and you deceive! Do you know How many people know Bing Bang or How many people have no difficulty in the scientific knowledge which you claim as easier.Surely, there are many people, they have no knowledge about such scientific information, but they strongly believe in God, and they know a lot of knowledge about GOD...


    You claim that, Maybe god is the Nature itself? 
    what an interesting claim! I wonder if Nature has talked you, too?!!! But I exactly know that God has talked to some people who are called as "prophet".
    As a result, by addressing Alex and you, I say that " absolutely, you get near the reality but you are still wrong. Because, you think God exists but you call him as "Nature", you made the real blind.
    Imagine a kingdom and its king... The king has a wonderful kingdom, he looks after and feeds his citizens with compassion.... One question to you, doesn't this king talk to his citizens?... Reasonable answer is that he has to talk to them because of that his kingdom is very huge and wonderful...
    Yes, God created all the universe and has talked some people who are the most convenient in mankind's history.

    Final question to you, Has Nature ever talked to you?...smiley - laugh

    Zek...

    Report message29

  • Message 30

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by Vladimir (U14599522) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    Can someone at last tell me where is God? Or he everywhere (he is the Nature itself) or he nowhere (as Alex say “beyond time and space”)?

    Yet,Zek, can you answer on your question – “Has God ever talked to you?”.

    Report message30

  • Message 31

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by Loreley (U15339124) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    I wonder, why we are not able to discuss without trying to insult the opinion of other members, but it seems, that we have so much different positions, that a discussion is impossible - a sad reality!

    However, I know, that I can't expect a discussion at eye level, but I want to make a few remarks:

    why do you give only Christianity for instance to prove your claim which focused on irreligion? Don't you know that Islam which is a perfect religion, supports and promotes science?...  
    In contrast to you I've spoken about my culture and took this as an example ... I don't understand, why this is a problem for your ... maybe you want to create a problem out of it ...
    By the way ... what is the definition of a "perfect religion"? Do you have a ranking of religions?

    Did you see any atom or did you research it through scientific expert?  
    Counterrequestion: Did you see X-Rays? Where or what created your roentgenogram?

    In my opinion, you accept only which one is nice for your selfish soul, is it so?  
    I'm selfish, if I have an other opinion like you?! Many thanks for conversation ...

    Qur'an and Islam which you deny  
    I didn't speak about Islam, I have spoken about religion; this is a difference. And by the way ... I don't deny neither Koran nor Bible nor Thora nor Bhagvad Gita nor other holy books.

    Lena

    Report message31

  • Message 32

    , in reply to message 30.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    Yes, certainly He has talked us through Holy Qur'an...

    Report message32

  • Message 33

    , in reply to message 31.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    Sometimes my words are towards the others, but the word "religion" is general name. So when you use it, know that it contains "islam"...

    Report message33

  • Message 34

    , in reply to message 32.

    Posted by Vladimir (U14599522) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    Then, Yes, certainly Nature also talked to us through science, theory evolution, archeology etc

    By the way once you told that theory evolution didn’t checked on practice. So look at this en.wikipedia.org/wik... : Artificial selection.

    Report message34

  • Message 35

    , in reply to message 34.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    In that case, scientists are messenger of Nature, is it so? Do they have any miracles to prove...smiley - laugh

    Report message35

  • Message 36

    , in reply to message 35.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    Hello Naturalist people!
    I want to some questions, I wonder if how you reply it...
    -Who created the mountains?Nature?

    -Who created the seas?Nature?

    -Who created the trees?Nature?

    -Who created the stars?Nature?…

    If your all answers are "nature". I think it is so, because of the result of your thought...
    Then, I ask you what is nature?

    Report message36

  • Message 37

    , in reply to message 36.

    Posted by Vladimir (U14599522) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    Hi, Zek

    I doubt that you’ll understand, but my answer is “Nobody”, it’s just form of existence of matter.

    Vladimir

    Report message37

  • Message 38

    , in reply to message 37.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    Maybe you don't accept "the reality of creation", then what is the matter? and how how is it occur?
    I think you accept "coincidence". In that case, watch the movie vimeo.com/m/46377612... and then answer logically reply

    Report message38

  • Message 39

    , in reply to message 38.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    Maybe you don't accept "the reality of creation", then what is the matter? and how how is it occur?
    I think you accept "coincidence". In that case, watch the movie vimeo.com/m/46377612... and then answer logically reply 
    " the absurdity of coincidence" vimeo.com/m/46377612...

    Report message39

  • Message 40

    , in reply to message 39.

    Posted by Vladimir (U14599522) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    Hi, Zek

    en.wikipedia.org/wik... : “Matter is anything that has mass and volume.” Matter not “occur” as you say, it simply endlessly exists in endless space. As matter existed ALWAYS, applying to it term “occur” (“coincidently” or “by design”) haven’t any sense. Though I’ll watch your film later.

    Best wishes,
    Vladimir

    Report message40

  • Message 41

    , in reply to message 40.

    Posted by zek (U15210256) on Wednesday, 22nd August 2012

    Hi Vladimir!
    I have allready known this information. I have learned it in university since 1993...
    but I would like to underline this statement in this link you gave, It is fair to say that in physics, there is no broad consensus as to a general definition of matter, and the term "matter" usually is used in conjunction with a specifying modifier. 
    regards...Zek...

    Report message41

  • Message 42

    , in reply to message 40.

    Posted by Nori (U4687824) on Wednesday, 22nd August 2012

    Dear all,

    Nature is nature. What it is.

    As I have been saying life started from single-celled creatures. Without the water, life would not have existed. And without the Higgs Boson, there had been no planets, stars or any other matters or substances.

    The single-celled creatures then turned to multicellular animals. And I believe that somekind of fishes were evolved from singled celled creatures.

    The trees, flowers, volcanoes, rivers, seas, mountains, jungles, deserts, forests, etc are all formed by the Nature. They are all formed by natural phenomenom.

    If we all have sufficient education and have motivation to find the truth, it is obvious that humans did not pop up like it says in the Bible. It is also crazy to believe that humans in that ancient period lived for 900 hundred years accroding to the Bible. And please don't tell me that a year in that period was short. Someone said that one day was 100 years when I asked him "How is it possible to make the Earth in seven days?"

    It is about time that we throw our old ideas and beliefs and start looking the reality. It's easy if we try. But some people always stick to their old ideas....(smile)

    We need to change as times change.

    Nori

    Report message42

  • Message 43

    , in reply to message 20.

    Posted by Alex S (U4744604) on Monday, 11th February 2013

    Hi, Nori! How are you?

    Have you heard about this?

    online.wsj.com/artic...

    Not too far - isn't it? Going to miss this time....

    Actually asteroid's impact is a rare event - look at the Moon, Mercury or Mars - they are covered with the craters all over! But for many years we din't see any sufficient impact... Most of the craters are millions years old.

    Nevertheless the probability is not zero of course....

    Report message43

  • Message 44

    , in reply to message 43.

    Posted by Nori (U4687824) on Tuesday, 12th February 2013

    Alex,

    Yes, you are absolutely right. Asteroids, meteorites, comets are very dangerous things if they hit the Earth. The possibility of falling to the Earth is not zero. I'm positive that in the primitive Universe, there were many meteorites, dusts, and other particles moving at surprising speed and hit planets and stars. However, those meteorites and comets brought life on Earth. So we'd better thankful about that.

    I am concerned about DNAs these few days. I watched a TV program the other day about a twenty year old girl who does not grow like we do. She looks like a baby. Well, let me put this way, she's still a baby despite 20 year old. Unbelievable.

    Scientists and those people who are engaging in DNA field have much concern on her. If they can find out the reason why she does not get old, humans might probably live forever or stay young eternally.

    Some creatures like lizards and a certain fish can reproduce their parts. For instance, lizards cut off their tail when attacked by preditors. If human can find the way to reproduce their parts, it would be fantastic, isn't it?

    The iPS cells, if succesfully controlled, can heal many people who are suffering from cancers or any other diseases.

    Now, I have a question....Don't you think that population will increase in a great percentage if we get eternal life? This will cause a great trouble. We have to keep the balance else the Earth would get over-populated.

    Nori

    Report message44

  • Message 45

    , in reply to message 44.

    Posted by Alex S (U4744604) on Tuesday, 12th February 2013

    Just several ages ago people saw much more comets in the sky. And not only because their sky was much darker! There was really more comets - Jupiter "caught" most of them. Asteroids are different - they have different orbits and there are still plenty of them - mainly in the "asteroid belt" between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter....
    If you've read that article, you maybe noticed that we got about 100 tons of the meteorites every day! I wonder - why they can't find organic matter on Mars? It definitely should be there as well as ice! Have you heard that they've found such things on the..... Mercury!?
    You are right - it is very likely that the water was brought to the Earth by the comets, though it could be "synthesized" on our Planet too...
    By the way, if the dinasaurs really were killed by an asteroid, it means that it "paved" the way for us - human beings - and "supplied" us with the substancial stock of the "fossil fuel"...

    As for the DNA and genes I am not that optimistic. That "child girl" very probably won't reach an average age of a "normal" woman. The mutations of the genes are quite often - they happen due to natural reasons and are the main source of the natural selection and evolution. The AGING is also a natural process. It has an "INFORMATIONAL" nature. There's an informational "overload" in every single organism (on the DNA level too) and it causes the aging inevitably! There's no exception of the rule (or the LAW of the Nature).
    I know about the regeneration - it is the feature of mainly primitive organisms (evolutionarily much older than the mammals). I know that you don't listen to the World Service... Yesterday (and today too) they broadcasted the Discovery programme - now they present a series of programmes on the sexual reproduction - how the sexes appeared. I think that the regeneration is the "blind thread" of the previous - vegetative reproduction. As soon as the Nature developed the more efficient, sexual reproduction, it rejected an old "idea"...
    ....Don't you think that population will increase in a great percentage if we get eternal life? This will cause a great trouble. We have to keep the balance else the Earth would get over-populated.  I think that "eternal life" is not just impossible - it contradicts the main "idea" of the Nature and the Nature will always find a way how to follow the idea of "renovation" and the "eternal" life of SEPARATE organisms means stagnation. There's no eternal life even for the species!
    By the way, would you like to have an eternal life? You are a good material for Zek's "propaganda"! smiley - biggrin

    Report message45

  • Message 46

    , in reply to message 45.

    Posted by Vladimir (U14599522) on Tuesday, 12th February 2013


    Hi, Alex, Nori

    It’s interesting how you slipped from talking about so lofty matter as universe, comets, asteroids to usual man’s talking – about sex smiley - laugh

    Look, here I found when the “original sin” has happened news.nationalgeograp... - "First Sex" Found in Australian Fossils?

    Report message46

  • Message 47

    , in reply to message 46.

    Posted by Alex S (U4744604) on Tuesday, 12th February 2013

    Yes - the Discovery programme was exactly about this! smiley - biggrin

    www.bbc.co.uk/progra...

    Perhaps for the Valentine Day smiley - biggrin

    Report message47

  • Message 48

    , in reply to message 47.

    Posted by Vladimir (U14599522) on Tuesday, 12th February 2013

    Yes, I listened it before – it’s one of my favorite podcatsts and listened just now for the second time. Actually I took idea from there.

    By the way eternal life may by solution against degrading of humanity – remember mutation combined with absence of natural selection is a dangerous thing

    Report message48

  • Message 49

    , in reply to message 47.

    Posted by Vladimir (U14599522) on Tuesday, 12th February 2013


    The only difference – I download podcasts from here www.bbc.co.uk/podcas...

    Report message49

  • Message 50

    , in reply to message 49.

    Posted by Alex S (U4744604) on Wednesday, 13th February 2013

    That's amazing! To continue the subject World Service reported today about a wonderful achievement of Japanese scientists! The discovery of "disposable" or rather "recyclable".... penis!

    www.youtube.com/watc...

    It is something more exciting than the lizard's tail!

    By the way, Vladimir, you are absolutely right that our medicine and biology leads us to the extinction of the human race! It is much more serious danger than the overpopulation! It is funny that some people (using religion) deny natural selection and at the same time (quite often the same people!) fight with it!

    I was thinking about discussing this theme in the "Yellow Brick Road" thread.... by devoting at least part of it to the Artificial Intelligence....

    And I am curious why you prefer the "podcast"? Do you listen on the move? In a car or commuting? Since you know the podcasts, perhaps you know this page too:
    www.bbc.co.uk/podcas...

    I know only one comparable source in the Learning English site - this French page:
    www.bbc.co.uk/french...

    In both pages you may find "The Market" series produced by our compatriot - Dima Kostenko... smiley - biggrin

    Report message50

Back to top

About this Board

Join in the debate.

or register to take part in a discussion.


The message board is currently closed for posting.

Opening Hours: Weekdays 0900-2200; Weekends 1000-2200.

This messageboard is reactively moderated.

Find out more about this board's House Rules

Search this Board

Copyright © 2015 BBC. The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.

This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.