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Access abroad for UK Users

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  • Message 1. Posted by John Dalton (U11670000) on Friday, 20th June 2008permalink

    BBC I-Player is not available outside the UK.

    Now I understand that it is all too difficult to negotiate on reasonable terms rights to make progs available internationally for download, but it negates one of the potential benefits if UK users can't access their favourite progs when abroad on business or holiday.

    My suggestion is this: that UK users with proof of entitlement (eg TV Licence No), and a UK IP Address at the time of registration, could register for overseas access.

    Technically, a cookie could be placed on successful registration which would over-ride a for'n IP Address to allow access to I-Player content. There could be a post-IP Address login in case the cookie was missing.

    How about it?

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  • Message 2. Posted by KingstonEagle (U9444792) on Friday, 20th June 2008permalink

    That might work if you paid per download, but wouldn't it be easier to use iTunes.

    smiley - winkeye

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  • Message 3. Posted by John Dalton (U11670000) on Friday, 20th June 2008permalink

    Pardon me if I have lost the plot, but I was not aware that iTunes carried BBC content. Nor do I see the relevance of paying for download to the suggestion made.

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  • Message 4. Posted by KingstonEagle (U9444792) on Friday, 20th June 2008permalink

    news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/...

    The problem (well one of them) is how are you going to pay and monitor for the changes you describe? Access to the TV Licencing database won't come cheap, even if it's legally allowable.

    A cheaper alternative is for the BBC can put content on established pay-per-download sites and the BBC World version of iPlayer when it's completed. The programmes don't cost a huge amount to download, so surely that's a good start?

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  • Message 5. Posted by Squirrel (U961634) on Sunday, 22nd June 2008permalink

    TV Licencing database won't come cheap, even if it's legally allowable


    It is not! Unless the Data Protection Act is ammended first..

    smiley - doh Tempted as I am to say "oh no not again!" I will respond like the pavlovian squirrel I am..

    proof of entitlement (eg TV Licence No)


    The TV Licence is not valid for anything outside the UK and it is not required to use iPlayer!

    You may be shocked to hear that this suggestion has come up before. It always shocks me that people pay £140 (tax) for something every year and yet have no idea what it is!

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  • Message 6. Posted by The Phazer (U815970) on Monday, 23rd June 2008permalink

    Now I understand that it is all too difficult to negotiate on reasonable terms rights to make progs available internationally for download

    It would be more than difficult. Those rights have a market value, and it's billions of pounds per year extra. Certainly multiple times more than the entire licence fee.

    Marking people as being UK citizens doesn’t change the fact that they are outside of the UK at the time. Rights are sold by territory, not by where you are from.

    It doesn't matter if the BBC somehow only provides the shows to people of UK nationality. To get the rights they will have to buy the rights to that entire territory, and then they may as well show it to everybody anyway. Legally providing the programme to even a single UK citizen to a foreign country will mean that rights holder can't exclusively sell the rights in that territory to someone else for example. Given exclusivity carries a significant price premium the BBC will then have to make up that income if it expects to win the rights.

    Phazer

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  • Message 7. Posted by KingstonEagle (U9444792) on Monday, 23rd June 2008permalink

    people pay £140 (tax)


    Hey, Squirrel, U woz robbed mate. I only paid £139.50!!

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  • Message 8. Posted by Squirrel (U961634) on Tuesday, 24th June 2008permalink



    smiley - laugh

    I'm sure you paid the other 50p somewhere! Postage, bank charges, travel, phone charges, broadband fees, electricity, shoe wear, your valuable time..

    Nothing is for nothing in this world is it. smiley - sadface What can you buy for 50p anyway?

    Answers on a postcard or via the message board..

    smiley - winkeye

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  • Message 9. Posted by evenicoulddoit (U11216536) on Monday, 30th June 2008permalink

    Hey Guys,

    In response to the initial question from Pythonesque - You say that the use of a cookie would be proof that the user is a UK resident. However, what if an American, or somebody living outside of the UK visits an internet cafe, and uses the iPlayer from there. The cookie would be granted, giving them later rights of use unless deleted, despite not being a UK resident. For this reason, I think it is entirely unpractical.

    Talking about the proof of entitlement, it has been discussed by some, but it would most likely be a costly affair, and therefore lacking practicality. I think that the only realistic way to receive the iPlayer abroad would be to grant access worldwide to the BBC Service.

    Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea - but I just can't see it happening, and it would be an easy workaround for many people trying to receive the service from abroad.

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  • Message 10. Posted by John Dalton (U11670000) on Monday, 30th June 2008permalink

    I really don't buy into the idea that there are huge costs associated with making content selectively available to a relatively small number of people who are oversees for business or pleasure. It is should be simple to buy this right for a nominal fee bearing in mind that the files are in any case digitally restricted and cannot be distribute. Otherwise why is Digital Restrictions Management necessary?

    While not relevant to the particular suggestion I have made, I am not convince that those worldwide rights cost "Billionsn of pounds extra per year". How many of these rights are actually sold? In any case, where a prog has been sold for broadcast in another territory, could not the IP/Country database be interrogated so as to allow download in that other territory?

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  • Message 11. Posted by KingstonEagle (U9444792) on Monday, 30th June 2008permalink

    In any case, where a prog has been sold for broadcast in another territory


    The BBC cannot determine how that broadcast is made, but it will probably be broadcast on a pay channel, or on a channel where advertising pays for the costs.

    What the BBC can also do is to sell a copy of the broadcast (along with the rights to view) in a form say of a DVD. The *international* version of iPlayer will do exactly that....SELL the programme for money.

    Because of the worldwide copyrighting system you simply won't get free BBC catch-up TV outside the UK. And I will be the first person to start a riot if my licence fee goes up even by 1 penny because you want to watch Dr Who on your laptop in a foreign hotel bedroom. But that's another topic for debate....

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  • Message 12. Posted by The Phazer (U815970) on Monday, 30th June 2008permalink

    I really don't buy into the idea that there are huge costs associated with making content selectively available to a relatively small number of people who are oversees for business or pleasure.

    It doesn't really matter if you buy into it or not. There are.
    It is should be simple to buy this right for a nominal fee bearing in mind that the files are in any case digitally restricted and cannot be distribute.

    It isn't. Again, read what I've written above. Exclusive means exclusive. You can't do "exclusive, apart from these English folks on their hols" in legal terms. You cannot obtain these rights to distribute to anyone without the rights to be distributing them to everyone. And they are for obvious reasons very expensive.
    Otherwise why is Digital Restrictions Management necessary?

    To enforce the time limit primarily. No one is under any pretense that DRM prevents distribution.

    While not relevant to the particular suggestion I have made, I am not convince that those worldwide rights cost "Billionsn of pounds extra per year". How many of these rights are actually sold?

    Seriously, it's a conservative estimate, based on the BBC's own contracts. It isn't really relevant if the rights are sold or not, because their market value is set on the potential to sell them on to other people and no music company or publisher etc etc etc is going to jeapordise that for the relatively tiny sums the BBC pays.
    Given the rights are held by different distributors in different countries a lot of the time, it'd cost hundreds of millions of pounds in extra administration alone to chase all these international rights holders.
    In any case, where a prog has been sold for broadcast in another territory, could not the IP/Country database be interrogated so as to allow download in that other territory?

    We're not talking about the programme having being sold - we're talking about third party materials like the background music licenced from the major music labels, the books that scripts are based on, extracts etc etc. The people who own these rights are under no obligation to tell the BBC if they've sold the rights in another territory or not, and ultimately they set their prices per territory and the BBC can take or leave it. Rights are very expensive, but diffused by literally millions of different organisations, so the BBC isn't a particualrily big client to most of them.
    But you'd better believe if you put it to a public vote of licence fee payers and asked people if they were prepared to give up all music, scripted material, sports, poetry, book adaptations, clips etc etc in programmes so they could watch programmes abroad the vote would be to take the whole website down if necessary. It's really that simple.

    Phazer

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  • Message 13. Posted by Squirrel (U961634) on Thursday, 3rd July 2008permalink


    What this comes down to really is being unable to secure the final link in the communication. That's the bit between the screen and the viewer's eye!

    But it still has nothing to do with having a TV licence and everything to do with copywright.

    When are people going to stop asking the BBC to (knowingly) break the law? It just is not going to happen!

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  • Message 14. Posted by Oh! What's occurring? (U12572669) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    Hi there, firstly I'll apologise for not being tech savvy and so my post (my first ever to be honest) may seem a little stupid to you guys (and girls?).

    I am from the UK but living abroad and I really miss the BBC and really wish I could access iplayer.

    I understand that there are rights issues but wonder if there is a way to deal with this.

    Whilst googling to find answers to using iplayer abroad I came across several posts about using proxy servers. A lot of these posts suggested setting up a proxy server before leaving the UK and then accessing this abroad, some even offer access to their server for a fee.

    As I said, technology is not my best subject, but these websites made it seem quite a simple solution. Now, I don't know if this is legal so I am staying well clear until I know for sure, but it did make me wonder if it could be used in some way by the BBC.

    Could the BBC not set up a site similar to what the proxy server sites are offering? Anyone abroad could register, pay a monthly/annual fee, and then log in to access the bbc website through a UK BBC server, allowing full use of iplayer?

    Would this overcome the 'rights' issue?

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  • Message 15. Posted by KingstonEagle (U9444792) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    Could the BBC not set up a site similar to what the proxy server sites are offering?


    So you're asking the BBC to allow illegal access to iPlayer from abroad? Sure... of course they are going to do that and open themselves up to being sued by every broadcaster and government in the world!

    You did ask in your post if you were being a little stupid.....

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  • Message 16. Posted by Oh! What's occurring? (U12572669) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    smiley - blush

    well I wasn't actually asking the BBC to allow illegal access, as I did state that I didn't know if it was in fact illegal.

    I was merely asking if this set up could be used in someway by the BBC, of course if there is no legal way of doing it then they can't do it. Surely my post didn't allude to me being that stupid?

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  • Message 17. Posted by KingstonEagle (U9444792) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    Hi there, firstly I'll apologise for not being tech savvy and so my post (my first ever to be honest) may seem a little stupid to you guys (and girls?).


    You obviously haven't read a single word of any of the posts in this thread, so I was being quite kind to you.

    smiley - smiley

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  • Message 18. Posted by Oh! What's occurring? (U12572669) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    I did read them actually, and I hadn't realised that my stupid suggestion had been mentioned before.

    Obviously you are saying it had and I haven't understood the thread, for that I apologise.

    I'll leave this thread then to those who are clearly more intellectually worthy smiley - winkeye

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  • Message 19. Posted by KingstonEagle (U9444792) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    Intellectual worthiness has nothing to do with understanding, my friend. smiley - smiley

    But being shot down at altitude by a phazer is not a happy experience, as you might have been about to find out! smiley - sadface

    May still happen smiley - yikes

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  • Message 20. Posted by EggOnAStilt (U7111730) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    But being shot down at altitude by a phazer is not a happy experience, as you might have been about to find out! smiley - sadface


    smiley - laugh

    I too was wondering if phazer was going to shoot a sitting duck, I don't think the poster in question really got off the ground.

    smiley - laugh

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  • Message 21. Posted by The Phazer (U815970) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    You guys think I get up way too early on a Saturday.

    Phazer

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  • Message 22. Posted by Oh! What's occurring? (U12572669) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    smiley - doh

    well I wonder what other nonsense I can post to rile you guys.

    I guess as it's a monsoon outside I'll wait in anticipating my lambasting from Phazer smiley - whistle

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  • Message 23. Posted by Squirrel (U961634) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    You obviously haven't read a single word of any of the posts in this thread


    ..or even my few words just at the end of the previous post?

    When are people going to stop asking the BBC to (knowingly) break the law? It just is not going to happen!


    I'm quoting myself now!

    smiley - yikes

    Look what you people are doing to me!!

    smiley - winkeye

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  • Message 24. Posted by KingstonEagle (U9444792) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    Squirrel, you are obviously suffering from iPlayer rollout fatigue, or Post Implementation Stress Syndrome as we doctors call it.....

    smiley - winkeye

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  • Message 25. Posted by EggOnAStilt (U7111730) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    well I wonder what other nonsense I can post to rile you guys


    Anything will do, we're not fussy smiley - smiley

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  • Message 26. Posted by EggOnAStilt (U7111730) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    Post Implementation Stress Syndrome as we doctors call it.....


    Is there any cure for this , or do we just have to keep taking it?

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  • Message 27. Posted by Oh! What's occurring? (U12572669) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    glad to hear that, although that may just be yourself, as the others seem rather fussy/pedantic
    they'll probably pick me up on that too smiley - laugh

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  • Message 28. Posted by KingstonEagle (U9444792) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    the others


    Isn't that a film? smiley - laugh

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  • Message 29. Posted by EggOnAStilt (U7111730) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    they'll probably pick me up on that too


    Or give you a verbal swift kick in the nuts.
    You've got to watch out for those Squirrels and Eagles armed with Phazers.

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  • Message 30. Posted by KingstonEagle (U9444792) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    You've got to watch out for those Squirrels and Eagles armed with Phazers.


    Yes.... Eggs are very vunerable in so many ways! smiley - winkeye

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  • Message 31. Posted by Squirrel (U961634) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    Isn't that a film?


    Are you thinking of "Them" maybe? smiley - laugh

    These aliens come on here, stealing our television downloads..

    smiley - winkeye

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  • Message 32. Posted by EggOnAStilt (U7111730) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    The others, was it also a TV series? I seem to remember something about a blind man.

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  • Message 33. Posted by KingstonEagle (U9444792) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink

    It was a ghost story movie with Nichole Kidman and Eric Sykes (!!!) and some famous man (Colin Firth maybe). The family was allergic to daylight, but I won't give the ending away.

    Might have been a TV thing as well.....

    smiley - winkeye

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  • Message 34. Posted by Squirrel (U961634) on Saturday, 5th July 2008permalink


    The TV series:

    www.imdb.com/title/t...

    Was before the film:

    www.imdb.com/title/t...

    I think that's right?

    smiley - laugh

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  • Message 35. Posted by alby65 (U14840781) on Wednesday, 13th April 2011permalink

    Sorry if I'm a bit thick but who are these mysterious "rights" payable to? If the BBC makes a programme prresumably the rights are theirs to do with as they like.

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  • Message 36. Posted by matt (U8621220) on Wednesday, 13th April 2011permalink

    Very old thread alandsbury.

    The cast and crew involved in programmes and others involved also own the rights. The BBC doesn't own coplete rights.

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  • Message 37. Posted by EggOnAStilt (U7111730) on Friday, 15th April 2011permalink

    mmmm

    so true smiley - biggrin

    smiley - friedegg

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  • Message 38. Posted by hrabrovo (U14863572) on Sunday, 8th May 2011permalink

    Load of rubbish. I can listen via iPlayer from several BBC radio stations to live rugby league provided that it is not the Challenge Cup and the BBC have broadcasting rights. Why???? Rugby League is Rugby League whover transmits it and how the BBC can transmit via the internet one game and not another game defies all logical reason and smacks of high handedness.

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  • Message 39. Posted by Onslow The Cat (U13672446) on Sunday, 8th May 2011permalink

    Rugby League is Rugby League whover transmits it and how the BBC can transmit via the internet one game and not another game defies all logical reason and smacks of high handedness


    I believe that the Rugby League divides its rights between the BBC and other digital Sports Channels for different games.That's RL's right to do and the BBC can't do much about it. Radio and TV rights are negotiated differently.

    Yesterday's Rugby League Challenge Cup transmission is available here www.bbc.co.uk/iplaye... and here www.bbc.co.uk/iplaye...

    smiley - blackcat

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