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xbmc iplayer plugin

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  • Message 51. Posted by Onslow The Cat (U13672446) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    To re-iterate previous posts, but worth reminding you about this blog which explains what's going on, more or less:

    www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...

    Also worth remembering that the BBC seems to prefer giving updates in blogs, not by responding to this mb. Even iPlayer updates aren't posted in iPlayer mbs but usually in blogs of smiley - titering.

    Also you might consider the offer to tell the BBC Trust your opinions about iPlayer in this survey.

    www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...

    As has been previously mentioned the removal of xbmc iplayer plugin appears to be for a corporate reason, so I can't see any reversal of this decision soon.

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  • Message 52. Posted by Smiff2 (U14354439) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    That bbc blog doesn't answer any of the questions.. but at least it's been noted, and the comments are excellent.

    Does the Beeb realise what a disaster this is? For themselves mainly? See how many replies this thread is getting. This may not seem very significant now but I think in 10-20 years it's going to mark a turning point in how the BBC fits (or doesn't) in the future of content creation and delivery. There must be at least one person inside the BBC who 'gets' why this change is fundamentally wrong.. the whole tech department is probably well aware.
    Over the last couple of years some of the BBC's most loyal viewers have helped to build arguably the greatest viewing platform ever (XBMC and its derivatives, available free for almost any desktop/laptop/htpc), tailored it specifically for BBC content, in their spare time, and made that available for other BBC viewers still for free, and all in keeping with the terms of iPlayer (I'm talking about people like Dink on the XBMC forum, and all those users/viewers who have helped out). Of course we couldn't have done this without some very able people on the BBC's end aswell, even if they weren't specifically working with us, so thanks for that (whilst it lasted).
    Then a week ago the BBC unceremoniously killed it, ruined those viewers' work and left all its users in the dark, apparently not even recognising what they'd done!
    You have basically just pushed thousands (of your more technically able viewers) into piracy or giving up watching your content (note that plugins for other content are still working fine on our TVs, it's only BBC content we've lost), yet done nothing to stop those who were previously breaking the iPlayer terms! (i had never heard of g**_iplayer before this happened. I was quite happy streaming content from the BBC directly during the time you made it available).
    You need to find a way to restore free software access for legitimate use – as a priority: you can leave talk of iphone apps and such until watching BBC programms in high quality on our TVs on demand at home is possible again - and if this can't be worked out quickly, just roll back the changes made on Feb 18th until a satisfactory solution is reached. every day you do nothing you are losing viewers and support. The BBC had something uniquely good (great content plus technically good delivery network, accessible from an excellent frontend) and it's a real shame if it ends like this!

    There are two errors in the Reg article: it was H264 streams we were using (much higher quality than flash!), and the plugin was last updated only about a month ago.

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  • Message 53. Posted by edz2k10 (U14355193) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    Oh dear, this is the sort of narrow minded exclusionist idea that (A) you expect from commerically funded companies such as Sky and (B) leads inexorably towards promoting unauthorised file sharing.

    The XBMC plugin stayed solely within the realms and spirit of the iplayer package itself, no recording, no timeshifting just the ability to stream a suitable stream (the appropriate stream for the bandwidth could be selected) unlike the abysmal, restricted, poor performance resource hog that is the BBC application (which is locked to Microsoft products only anyway - so much for your governance mandate not to support one platform only).

    Not only that but the BBC tech team promoted the plugin a while back. naughty naughty going off the management and licensing divisions message!

    Using flash streaming (as has been mentioned here) is also not an option for everyone since flash is a poor performance playback medium that uses a lot of resources for mediocre performance. The H264 video stream embedded in the flash stream is fine once released.

    So, well done BBC. Youve terminated the finest way of using iplayer and, I note, just as you're promoting freesat iplayer and other options, coincidental no doubt.

    Well (A) I'm not going to buy a toy with iplayer enabled (licensed by the BBC at a large fee to Nintendo etc no doubt) (B) I dont want to watch programs sitting at my desk and (C) you haven't got Freesat iplayer working yet so that's it, there's now no "authorised" method of catch up TV from the BBC.

    Well done, iplayer is now dead to many users. Users who will happily go elsewhere (whether via alternate media providers - remember you're nothing special anymore BBC) or via the exact route you professed to want to stop.

    Poor, poor poor and exactly what I expect from the mis management at the BBC

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  • Message 54. Posted by gpuk (U14355217) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    I would like to add my support to this suggestion.

    Having spent over £400 on building an XBMC media centre so that I can enjoy the Iplayer's catch-up features in my living room I cannot begin to describe my disappointment to learn the BBC have decided to unilaterally block open access to their content and effectively force a platform choice on me.

    The gift of the license fee is what allows the BBC to be the world beating force it is. This ability to avoid having to kow-tow to short sighted commercial interests lies at the heart of the BBC's success and opneness and I simply don't accept that the same principles should not be applied to the Iplayer. The technology exists to keep the system open and doing so represents no greater threat from piracy than if it remains closed.

    I sincerely ask you to reconsider your partnership with Adobe. You can do better than this.

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  • Message 55. Posted by Oddsodz (U9331211) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    I Shall add my 2p.

    Let's just take a look and the long game here. Now the iPlayer has been and I am sure will continue to be super. Remember a few years ago we was all going mad for the linux/Mac versions of the iPlayer. And in the end they made it. We can now use the BBC iPlayer software on Mac and Linux. So lets not go overboard and start a hanging match of the iPlayer dev teams.

    As for the plugin for XBMC. I Use (or used too) it all the time. It is (was) great. I Just hope it can be sorted real fast. As it is a really REALLY good tool. And should not be lost due to small legal issues. The service is of high grade. Let's not lose it now.

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  • Message 56. Posted by edz2k10 (U14355193) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    Just as an aside to the poster above, there is NO iplayer app for linux the only full iplayer application uses DRM (digital rights management to prevent you keeping a copy or, well, doing anything the BBC thinks is naughty) to lock down and delete the recording if you dont watch it within their time limit.

    The only cross system option is to stream the flash video over the web (the file is never stored on your machine) this doesnt work well on all machines especially the new, lower power (eco friendly - remember when the BBC thought that was a good idea?) net tops such as the acer revo. These choke up using flash which Adobe only offer lip service to supporting under linux anyway (the linux version is a massive resource hog and doesnt work very well). Flash is also renowned for opening up security vulnerabilities as well as locking the BBC into a single provider, something that is supposed to be against their mandate!

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  • Message 57. Posted by Did_I_Say_That (U14172075) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    The XBMC plugin stayed solely within the realms and spirit of the iplayer package itself, no recording, no timeshifting just the ability to stream a suitable stream (the appropriate stream for the bandwidth could be selected) unlike the abysmal, restricted, poor performance resource hog that is the BBC application (which is locked to Microsoft products only anyway - so much for your governance mandate not to support one platform only).


    Most of the last 20 or so posts use the same or similarly pathetic arguments, postulations and contorted truths. How could you expect a wider community to support you or have any empathy for your "loss" when comments like these have been made... "Spirit of iPayer", "locked to Microsoft products only", "there's now no "authorised" method of catch up TV from the BBC" , "Well done, iplayer is now dead to many users" and not to mention the ol' favourite "I pay my license fee..." then there's the utterly convincing tone of "put it back BBC...or you'll force me to steal!". I'm sure the BBC are rushing to roll back the change for that one!

    I just can't help feel this noble cause is nothing more than impressively worded stupidity and rapidly cooling hot air. Oh, its in the register and promptly plopped of the page...

    I honestly wish you well but think the arguments need to be a little more convincing.

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  • Message 58. Posted by petemcfc (U14351168) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    You are responding to quite alot of seperate threads are you an employee?

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  • Message 59. Posted by Dadofthree (U14352803) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    He may or may not be an employee but he's certainly a fool.

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  • Message 60. Posted by edz2k10 (U14355193) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    Firstly, please understand I am not interested in personal comments which will only serve to get this thread locked.

    Secondly, why post? You have made no suggestion, feedback or comment apart from insulting people who are pointing out to the BBC that they have, without consultation pulled support from an application that helped to bolster support for iPlayer when the BBC had no cross operating system version apart from the Windows only application.

    Nobody is saying put it back or I'll steal it, people are pointing out that the BBC et al havem themselves, publicly, said that they would make it easier to use iplayer than to download unauthorised material via p2p and similar services.

    This is wider than a plugin for one application (XBMC).

    Yes, tempers are running high. The BBC have at the same time as pulling support for non encrypted RTMP streaming (the method that was being used here) made it available in a restricted and locked down format on the WII and, I believe, apple mobile products (ipod/phone). This means to use the Iplayer, and this is important, you have to use a desktop app or purchase a new product.

    Finally the points about the "spirit of the rules" etc are meant to point out that applications which allow high quality iplayer content to be downloaded permanently still work perfectly. Only those that fullfill the original ideal of streaming and keeping the BBC and the content providers desperately important rights safe have been blocked.


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  • Message 61. Posted by petemcfc (U14351168) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    Off topic but from experience with a problem with a Talk Talk router -set up a poster who offered advice was an employee masking as a punter,I also visited the Betavane/Vodaphone forum for a bit of advise regarding a linux set up again an employee responded.
    So the Beeb has to respond by throwing in a troll.

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  • Message 62. Posted by tundenscanis (U14355514) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    I'm intrigued that BBC's blogger appears to attempt to sideline, or belittle the issue thus: "The Register reports on unhappy developers who have been made unhappy by recent changes to iPlayer".

    I think you'll find that whilst the developers must be "unhappy", the real problem is the thousands of licence fee payers (and their young children fans of Cbeebies, like mine) who you've upset by rendering their equipment useless.

    Can you please explain what you are trying to achieve?

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  • Message 63. Posted by petemcfc (U14351168) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    They carnt, there have been two BBC employees on here going out of their way to state that we are wasting our time,
    Its a bit pathetic and patronising really.

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  • Message 64. Posted by Simon Partridge (U14352249) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    @Did_I_Say_That (U14172075)

    Please feel free to impressively word an argument for us.

    I think you can (even in-between the hot air and our stupidity) - feel the love for the BBC's content and the method us like minded individuals choose to watch it.

    Emotions are stirred due to the enjoyment of the content and how we were getting it in the most cost effective, convenient and flexible way. The iplayer plugin is fit for purpose and bears no obvious threat to the BBC, it's content and its ability to continue to be an impressive broadcaster. If a representative from the BBC can outline all the benefits to us from adding SWF authentication and how it benefits the majority at our (minorities) expense then it may go some way in quelling our emotions.

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  • Message 65. Posted by Davejt (U14356636) on Friday, 26th February 2010permalink

    I am a recent convert to XBMC as O want wo make my media experience linked into one source ie the TV. The Iplayer plugin was superb and ideally I would have wanted all channels to be availavle through that route. The Catchup service is ideal for me as I am never around when things I want to watch or listen to are broadcast. I would have thought the BBC would understand the growing desire to do this sort of thing and as a licence payer I would expect them to cater for such needs. I am not technically minded but if the BB can sort this out once and for all them that would be superb.

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  • Message 66. Posted by Smiff2 (U14354439) on Friday, 26th February 2010permalink

    To help everyone (especially those who currently watch mostly or entirely on freeview/subscription digital satellite services) to understand the problem, may I tell a little, entirely fictional story? Please bare with me...

    ***

    Let's turn the clock back 30 or 40 years.
    The British people all watch their BBC programs on their analogue TVS and listening to their FM radios. Britain still has a manufacturing sector, so some of those sets are even made in here in Britain. You've even heard of some strange guys who apparently like to make their own TVs - they seem very complicated and are always breaking down, but you realise those people aren't harming anyone so you let them get on with it! Anyway, one day, a small minority of the British people wake up and find their programs are getting cut off after a minute or so. They think there must be something wrong with their sets and think never mind, they'll try again later - or if it's a problem at the transmitter it'll soon be fixed. They don't have the internet, so they ask friends and neighbours if they too are having trouble picking up their favourite programs and it seems most other people's TVs and radio are working fine! Soon, that minority have missed a week of programming and haven't heard any explanation of what's wrong...

    I'm not sure what happens next (I could sarcastically add that, since there's nothing else to watch in 1975 they then go outside and take up a more productive hobby). But perhaps if we're lucky the news media picks up the story and we realise it's small groups of people all over the country affected, and that the major brands of TV all seem fine. most likely someone at the BBC knocks heads together and things get put back to how they were. But suppose a journalist uncovers that the BBC has done a secret deal with a group of the largest foreign TV set makers to prevent any others from working, so that everyone in the UK will be forced to buy those devices - to watch the content they're already paying for. Apparently there's some special part that has to go into the TV for it to work with BBC programmes, and ordinary people can't buy this part. It's illegal, or expensive, or both. there would be an outrage! most likely the government would have got involved and reminded the BBC of their public service commitment and asked them basically: what were they trying to achieve? Says one government minister "it's isn't the BBC's business to dictate how the public accesses BBC programming", adding "the BBC should never strike deals with private companies that conflict with their public service commitment".

    ***

    I hope everyone understands the analogy, it isn't subtle, but is there anything basically wrong with it? I realise there are new issues with internet streaming TV that aren't taken into account here, and the whole diversity of devices is very different from how things were then, but the point still stands. Whatever problem the BBC was trying to fix this time, the solution they chose was the wrong one and has some scary and harmful consequences in the long term.
    Thanks for reading!

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  • Message 67. Posted by DaveNeedsToKnow (U2453641) on Friday, 26th February 2010permalink

    I'd just like to add my voice to this request. I have used IPlayer on XBMC for quite some time now with a dedicated box under my TV. Its the only way I use IPlayer and the main way I watch BBC you the BBC broke it without warning with little hope of it ever working again.

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  • Message 68. Posted by Lee (U14357305) on Friday, 26th February 2010permalink

    Well I, my wife and 5 year old daughter are very disappointed by this change to the extent that it has made us seriously question why we continue to play a license fee since now we will be watching zero BBC material.

    XBMC and the iplayer plugin are technically far superior to any other solution out there and had attempted to both morally and legally comply with the iplayer terms of use; it is RIDICULOUS to exclude it.

    I hope someone at the beeb with some common sense either undoes this recent change or adds the iplayer to the list of approved plugins otherwise I suspect we'll all soon be engaged in a pointless DRM war to use a service which we actually pay for.

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  • Message 69. Posted by zippydo (U14358112) on Saturday, 27th February 2010permalink

    I am extremely disappointment by the recent changes made to BBC iplayer. My 6 and 8 year old daughters where regular viewers of the service using XBMC and since the Nintendo Wii is not really up to the task (being wireless) they are left without a viable alternative.

    As a license holder i can understand the need to prevent unauthorized viewing of BBC content, but the iplayer plugin for XBMC complies with all necessary security, and was even detailed on BBC backstage.

    backstage.bbc.co.uk/...

    Change we please return to normal iplayer viewing ASAP.

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  • Message 70. Posted by Nick (U14358167) on Saturday, 27th February 2010permalink

    I would like to add my voice to this discussion.

    I am bitterly disappointed that the BBC has introduced this layer of protection that render open source players useless for iplayer.

    Like everyone else here, I pay my licence fee and connot understand why I should be restricted to what platform I am allowed to use to stream iplayer content.

    Over the years I have experimented with many devices/platforms to allow my family (ages 43 to 5 years) easy access our media collection and to streaming services such as iplayer.

    In my opinion, XBMC is the best at doing this. All in my family have been using XBMC for many years, we are now missing very much the lack of iplayer support.

    BBC, please revert/modify iplayer so that we can again enjoy iplayer on XBMC.

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  • Message 71. Posted by Onslow The Cat (U13672446) on Saturday, 27th February 2010permalink

    there have been two BBC employees on here going out of their way to state that we are wasting our time,
    Its a bit pathetic and patronising really


    No, there has been "Jon I-Player Host* on this thread with two messages. No other BBC employee has responded. That's the point, and as I've suggested before you are better off submitting your angst via the BBC iPlayer survey.

    I can see where the BBC is coming from with its closing of the loop of potential DRM failures. I don't necessarily agree with the policy but that's what Jonathan and the blogs have said, so I doubt anybody from the BBC will add to the debate on this thread.

    As has been mentioned elsewhere Flash was adopted because so many mac users were outraged (rightly) that downloads were only available to PC users. Flash is the only multi-platform available to the BBC to give iPlayer to most computer users given that DRM is a must. I think that's something this thread should discuss. Can xbmc iplayer plugin support DRM of any kind? If it does then the argument might go further at the BBC.

    Not a BBC Poster

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  • Message 72. Posted by Dink (U14352108) on Saturday, 27th February 2010permalink

    "As has been mentioned elsewhere Flash was adopted because so many mac users were outraged (rightly) that downloads were only available to PC users"

    Downloading and streaming are two very separate services and implemented as such by the BBC. I don't see a Wii download service for example. I do however see a large Message board thread complaining about issues with downloads for some on Mac OSX plus a lot of Linux folk have a low opinion of Adobe Flash on that platform.

    This XBMC Plugin like the Wii app only does streaming. No downloading. It's primary advantage over Adobe is the wider range of Operating Systems & Hardware it runs well on. By using more efficient software and optionally hardware assisted decoding this plugin is able to play these video streams on setups where Adobe Flash hasn't a hope.

    I do agree with your comment about the BBC Trust iPlayer survey consultations.extern... . It seems to be the right place to question the over reliance the IPlayer service seems to have on Adobe and how with SWF Verification that relationship has recently become more exclusive.

    Regards
    Dink (plugin dev)


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  • Message 73. Posted by ricardo (U14358650) on Saturday, 27th February 2010permalink

    This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the House Rules in some way.

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  • Message 74. Posted by John (U14358815) on Saturday, 27th February 2010permalink

    I just found my xmbc iplayer plugin had stopped working this weekend. It isn't fair that we should be expected to fork out for specific manufacturers hardware to access the BBCs content.

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  • Message 75. Posted by matt (U8621220) on Saturday, 27th February 2010permalink

    You could plug your computer into you TV to view...

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  • Message 76. Posted by Dadofthree (U14352803) on Saturday, 27th February 2010permalink

    "You could plug your computer into you TV to view..."

    Err, that's how many XBMC Iplayer plugin users used to watch Iplayer content.

    Many of us have low power Linux based HTPCs which run XBMC and the Iplayer plugin beautifully but struggle to render Flash video.

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  • Message 77. Posted by Smiff2 (U14354439) on Saturday, 27th February 2010permalink

    It's pretty clear that most of those who think there isn't a problem, simply haven't tried XBMC or similar based HTPCs. I wonder why they are even commenting since this doesn't concern them (yet, it may do one day!)

    To those people i say this: if you ever find that you can't access the content you like on the hardware you have, even though it's perfectly capable, because someone has pushed a button at the other end, and won't tell you why - please don't bother coming to complain.

    The BBC should provide its content via a range of streams that are suitable for the hardware that most of us have, without favouring any particular device. We don't ask for support on every device because that's impractical - just that there isn't deliberate exclusion based on device. the device, when you think about it, is really not anyone else's business. only usage should be the BBC's concern.

    The only deliberate blocking the BBC should do is against those who are not UK license payers, or who are abusing the service in some way that's either harmful to their content producers (and therefore consumers long term) or to other users.

    denial of service to a large group of legitimate users in order to hurt a group of illegitimate users is really very questionable (whether or not it's even successful), given that all the legitimate users are license payers.

    The iPlayer plugin meets the criteria of being both popular and not harmful, and so it should not be excluded - ideally, you could work with Dink (he posted above). You might even consider employing him as he's proven over the last year to be both an excellent programmer and moral (keeping the plugin to your terms). By making the plugin 'official', you would have more control of it in the future (ensuring there are no abuses of your network) and give the best possible experience for your users.

    Please will someone from the BBC at least explain the decision to implement SWF verification (what the benefits are, whether they consider the actual result a success).. as licence payers I think we are entitled to this.

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  • Message 78. Posted by prusling (U14358940) on Saturday, 27th February 2010permalink

    I just discovered XBMC and its iPlayer plug-in as a solution to a problem in the latest BBC iPlayer Desktop in that HD playback does not utilise graphics hardware acceleration (e.g. Ion) which means it is unwatchable on my netbook.

    XBMC however does make use of such acceleration and I was delighted to be able to watch completely smooth playback of the BBC's best HD content... until it ground to a halt.

    Please re-enable XBMC to use the iPlayer streams.

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  • Message 79. Posted by Onslow The Cat (U13672446) on Saturday, 27th February 2010permalink

    I wonder why they are even commenting since this doesn't concern them


    Because the mb is open for all povs? I haven't actually noticed any *anti* posts myself, simply a few questions and suggestions.

    smiley - blackcat

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  • Message 80. Posted by Monstamac (U14359188) on Saturday, 27th February 2010permalink

    We just wanted to add our disappointment with the BBC stopping iplayer working on XBMC. We have an old mac mini plugged into the tv especially for this use. Flash support on a 1.5 core solo is awful. We used to use the xbox itself but "upgraded" to the mini for simplicity.

    Please rethink this policy. We barely watch broadcast tv anymore and iplayer was the thing that was making it possible for us to watch the programmes that we do like from the BBC.

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  • Message 81. Posted by skila (U14360410) on Sunday, 28th February 2010permalink

    Dear Jon,

    We are not asking for support for the XBMC iPlayer plugin, we are asking the BBC to consider "whitelisting" the XBMC iPlayer plugin in the XML configuration for Adobe's Flash Media Servers.

    The XBMC iPlayer plugin provides an alternative way of viewing BBC iPlayer content for people who do not have Flash Player. The plugin itself does not record content for later viewing or try to circumvent DRM in anyway, it merely facilitates people watching BBC content on other platforms. As the plugin is developed by 3rd parties, it would consume less resources for BBC to liaise with the developers and come to some agreement on how to whitelist the plugin.

    By allowing the use of the XBMC iPlayer plugin, the BBC is living up to it's claim of being "platform neutral" in content distribution.

    Remember that BBC is a customer of Adobe, and as a customer the BBC should have more say than Adobe about who views the BBC's content and on what platform - I am a Flash developer myself, but I acknowledge that there are situations where Flash is not a practical solution, this is one of them.

    The other benefit of allowing this plugin is that many XBMC users are effectively recycling their old computers and gear to use for viewing TV. This may irritate the manufacturers, but this is not something that should concern the BBC.

    So, please BBC can you find some way to allow all these XBMC users to once again get access to your fabulous content.

    Thanks

    Glen

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  • Message 82. Posted by AndyB (U6539081) on Sunday, 28th February 2010permalink

    I want to add my name to the list of disappointed XBMC users. The XBMC iplayer plugin was a beautiful method of watching content. I'm annoyed at the bbc adopting software which kills off access. They did it through Real Network's zero support for xp 64 and now they're doing the same with Adobe.

    I agree very much with the green thinking on this thread. I'm very glad i can run iplayer on low powered linux boxes.

    It's a shame but it's probably that the decision makers at the beeb haven't set eyes on the xbmc iplayer plugin. It looks so professional and easily the best platform to watch bbc content on. Have you seen the wii and ps3 output - they're laughable.

    I hope the bbc developers are allowed to talk to Dink and the others over at xbmc and at least a feasibility study is made.

    I'll be writing to the trustees and telling them i'm seriously considering withdrawing payment of my licence fee as they shouldn't force me to adopt certain software suppliers.

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  • Message 83. Posted by Zeke Pliskin (U14044001) on Sunday, 28th February 2010permalink

    I was more than happy with the "available for 7 seven days, download and access for a month" policy as if you don't watch in that time you probably weren't that interested anyway, and you didn't have to waste hard disk space and time downloading a show; you could just stream it. And I was using XBMC's plugin, written by Dink, to do so as it was a nice, efficient piece of code that kept me as far away from Flash as possible.

    To boil a lot of thoughts I've had on the subject down to just a few concise ones, it's pretty obvious what the BBC have said to me by making this thoughtless change which renders the plugin useless.

    They would rather I don't use the iPlayer on my preferred media centre. Instead, they'd rather I step outside their rules and use some sort of DVR or perhaps a Torrent client/site to illegally leech their content, even though I've already paid for it with the license fee.

    You see, changing to SWF verification makes it harder to get at the content legally, which is shooting themselves in the foot. It seems they'd rather force people to buy a legal solution - more money on another piece of junk tech to stick near the TV - or choose filesharing or making their own copies.

    All the BBC have done is sacrifice control over their content by shutting one of the doors used to access it legally. Plenty of users were happy to respect the T&Cs and finally get away from making/downloading copies of the shows they want to watch in favour of on-demand streaming with a 7 day window, but a step backward has been taken towards making copies like we have done since VHS/Betamax etc to watch our favourite shows when we want. Which incidentally makes the iPlayer service an extraneous expense for even more people.

    It was my understanding that the BBC were looking to avoid bringing up the "abolish the license fee" debate again, but lo and behold, yet another small group have been pushed in that direction. Pretty dumb move, really, and all for lack of communication in an age where there are more ways to communicate with others than ever before. What excuse do they have? None.

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  • Message 84. Posted by sami (U14360840) on Sunday, 28th February 2010permalink

    I am also a disappointed BBC Tax Payer.

    The I-player is a great service (for which we pay!), the BBC should be more open about 3rd party application consuming the BBC content.

    Please BBC, let XBMC live, see how many users are using it here, please open up the stream.

    Thanks,

    Sami

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  • Message 85. Posted by gamiepo (U14361028) on Sunday, 28th February 2010permalink

    Come on BBC, sort this out please. Either that or explain to my kids why they can't watch Chugington any more.

    complain

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  • Message 86. Posted by matt (U8621220) on Sunday, 28th February 2010permalink

    or explain to my kids why they can't watch Chugington any more.

    Let them watch it on the computer.

    complain

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  • Message 87. Posted by Dadofthree (U14352803) on Monday, 1st March 2010permalink

    "Let them watch it on the computer. "

    Let me guess; you've never had three under fives fight, literally, for the best space in front of your expensive laptop have you?

    complain

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  • Message 88. Posted by petemcfc (U14351168) on Monday, 1st March 2010permalink

    "The decision to block open source plugins is a matter for BBC Management. The Trust has not received any complaints on this issue and has no plans to look into it further at present," a BBC Trust spokeswoman told The Register."

    Wrong
    A number of people have complained via the online survey.
    Not long ago the BBC was sanctioned for bending the truth on a number of occasions,it looks like they still have to resort to lies.

    complain

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  • Message 89. Posted by doug (U14061734) on Monday, 1st March 2010permalink

    Dear Jonathan

    "If it is following the terms as described here we cannot support it"

    Could you quote me exactly the bits that relate to endusers using the XBMC plugin. And where if any, is there a BBC web-page we can go and complain on the issues. Appariently the BBC Trust isn't aware of this site ..

    "The decision to block open source plugins is a matter for BBC Management. The Trust has not received any complaints on this issue and has no plans to look into it further at present,"

    www.theregister.co.u...

    news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/... RSS feeds

    complain

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  • Message 90. Posted by kell (U14362066) on Monday, 1st March 2010permalink

    I'm confused.

    Software that circumvents the SWFverification exists.
    It was removed with a DMCA takedown, because it was hosted in the US (on sourceforge).

    Iplayer is only available to the UK - outside of the reach of the DMCA.

    Can XBMC and others, not use a library or plugin, hosted in the UK, for UK users, to legally watch Iplayer on open source players.

    Am I wrong here?

    complain

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  • Message 91. Posted by Jon iPlayer Host (U8557168) on Monday, 1st March 2010permalink

    Hello,

    You may wish to check out the discussion on the BBC Internet Blog as Nick Reynolds, the editor, and others have posted some links and comments about XBMC.

    www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...

    Jonathan

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 92. Posted by The Phazer (U815970) on Monday, 1st March 2010permalink

    Software that circumvents the SWFverification exists.
    It was removed with a DMCA takedown, because it was hosted in the US (on sourceforge).

    Iplayer is only available to the UK - outside of the reach of the DMCA.

    Can XBMC and others, not use a library or plugin, hosted in the UK, for UK users, to legally watch Iplayer on open source players.


    The DMCA is irrelevant here. The UK has much (much much) harsher equivalent legislation of it's own anyway - it's an actual criminal offense to distribute software like that in the UK.

    Phazer

    complain

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  • Message 93. Posted by Simon Partridge (U14352249) on Monday, 1st March 2010permalink

    I think everyone is noticing that complaining here is not complaining to the BBC Trust - see the latest reg article www.theregister.co.u...

    Please go here:

    https://iplayerhelp...

    And complain away - I have - the more the merrier.

    Cheers

    complain

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  • Message 94. Posted by Jon iPlayer Host (U8557168) on Monday, 1st March 2010permalink

    Hello Simon,

    The link given is not to the BBC Trust but the iPlayer support pages. The Trust is at www.bbc.co.uk/bbctru...

    Jonathan

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 95. Posted by kaspar (U14362658) on Monday, 1st March 2010permalink

    As a BBC iPlayer user I can see no benefit to the end-user of this increased security measure. XBMC does not require the BBC's support but simply to allow it to legally replay its contents as this is inline with the BBC's goals anyhow.

    complain

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  • Message 96. Posted by John99 (U13871221) on Monday, 1st March 2010permalink

    I note Jonathan gives a link to the Trust in message #94

    This issue does not directly affect me, and I doubt a decision is going to be reversed.
    However I think this iPlayer messageboard is not the best place to complain, other than for venting your feelings.
    It would seem probable that before any complaint can be made to the BBC Trust or before any complaint can be escalated formal complaints must be made to the BBC.

    See BBC Trust contact page:

    Complaints & appeals

    If you have a complaint about the BBC, you should contact BBC Information first.

    BBC Complaints

    If you are unhappy with the way your complaint has been dealt with by the BBC Executive, you can appeal to the Trust. www.bbc.co.uk/bbctru...

    The quotation above includes a link to:
    "BBC Complaints www.bbc.co.uk/compla... "
    The above link then goes to the page about the BBC three stage complaint process:
    "How we handle your complaint www.bbc.co.uk/compla... "

    So if you want to try and get something changed, fill in the trust survey &/or make formal complaints to the BBC that can be escalated to the Trust.

    complain

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  • Message 97. Posted by freddybob (U14147172) on Tuesday, 2nd March 2010permalink

    Also the BBC Trust have a strategy review survey: https://consultatio...

    complain

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  • Message 98. Posted by Jon (U14351147) on Tuesday, 2nd March 2010permalink

    I note that another thread on this forum relates to iPlayer running on Apple's OS X operating system. It was started on 23rd October 2009 and (as I write) has attracted 101 replies.

    This thread was started 8 days ago and has hit 97 posts. Surely some measure of the popularity of the XBMC plugin?

    complain

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  • Message 99. Posted by Interceptor121 (U14367967) on Thursday, 4th March 2010permalink

    It is not true that the issue is with RSS feeds
    The problem is an additional verification layer over RTMP (real time messaging protocol) that is imposed from adobe content protection system
    This means that it won't be possible anymore to play any content if you don't have a device with flash capabilities

    The shame is that there this is punishing developers operating with open source public license for free and still allowing other systems to actually download the content bypassing some gapholes in adobe system

    For whoever is watching XBMC through their media center BOXX still supports it as it is based on flash

    The performance of flash over the RTMP is somewhat lagging and all in all weak even on Humax freesat

    It is a shame this had to happen because of adobe influence on BBC

    complain

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  • Message 100. Posted by John99 (U13871221) on Friday, 5th March 2010permalink

    {further to my comment #96 www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb... ]

    Readers of this thread may be interested in Today's BBC entry in issues log:

    "Friday 05th March

    SWF verification - please advise to read the following blog, in which the BBC has responded and advise that their comment has been logged and passed onto the relevant team. Forward detail to Audience Services iPlayer feedback

    www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/... [ iplayerhelp.external... ]"


    Although the entry as quoted, currently appears to be advice mainly to BBC staff, it does point to the blog rather than the messageboard. Presumably it is an indicator of the response a complaint will get.

    complain

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