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xbmc iplayer plugin

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  • Message 21. Posted by Jonathan Lewis (U14352411) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    I wanted to add my voice to other xbmc users on this thread.

    The XBMC plugin has served as the only reliable way for me to watch the iplayer catchup service on my TV. It represents a low cost solution which seems very much in tune with the aspirations which underlie the iPlayer and the BBC itself: providing high quality, reliable content to viewers in the UK.

    I am in awe of the developers who have worked on this open source project and it would be a tremendous shame if this issue could not be worked out.

    I am a middle aged suburban license fee payer who would never dream of accessing BBC content surreptitiously or illegally.

    Hope things can be resolved soon!

    Jonathan

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  • Message 22. Posted by Behappierre (U14352432) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    I just saw this thread. Please BBC do something to re-enable this. My 3 yo daughter loves your Cbeebies programs and was often watching them on XBMC

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  • Message 23. Posted by Silver (U14352445) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    Adding my thoughts too:

    I would love to see the return to functionality of the XBMC iPlayer plugin, both my daughters adore watching Cbeebies on it, and we all miss it desperately - please BBC, throw us a bone! This is the best implementation of iPlayer that I have found!

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  • Message 24. Posted by the_gambler78 (U14352447) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    xbmc and iplayer plugin is a fantastic way of letting myself wife and kids watch their favourite programmes on the TV (similar to the Wii advert but without the £150 initial outlay for the system)

    i hope their is a way for the BBC to work with XBMC and Dink to come to a solution. it would be a huge loss if this plugin was to be confined to the scrapheap....

    thanks

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  • Message 25. Posted by David Allonby (U14352443) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    I'm an XBMC developer who works on librtmp, upon which the iplayer plugin relies. It'd fall on my (or other people giving their time freely and without reward) shoulders to implement the SWFVerification feature.

    Given Adobe's stance against rtmpdump (www.chillingeffects...., an open source tool which forked librtmp and added an implementation of the SWFVerification feature, I think it's fair to say that we'd rather not add this feature to our codebase, just to support iplayer.

    The iPlayer XBMC plugin has a long history, following the 'spirit' of the iplayer rules to the letter (no recording, no geoloc evasion), gaining plenty of press attention and generally painting the BBC in a very positive light on a multitude of platforms. The plugin attracted the attention of BBC employees, and indeed was showcased on backstage.bbc.co.uk.

    Perhaps i'm being naive, but I just don't see what implementing SWFVerification has accomplished here. If you *really* wanted to break the OSS community, you'd switch to rtmpe. All I can guess is that this was a misdirected 'ticked the wrong box' upgrade, and can hopefully be resolved swiftly.

    If anyone at the BBC would like to discuss informally, [Personal details removed by Moderator]

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  • Message 26. Posted by Mark Casey (U14352536) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    I'm what I consider a fairly medium to heavy user of the BBC iPlayer service.

    I primarily use it through XBMC to catch up with tv.

    Even though I own a freesat pvr my main method of watching BBC shows is through XBMC via my HTPC on my 40" HDTV in my living room.

    I am very disappointed with the BBC for excluding XBMC.

    Please reconsider your choice guys about kicking off XBMC, the iPlayer plugin for XBMC doesn't let people download the shows, it streams them just like the normal iPlayer and prevents people from watching shows past the 7 day window just like the normal iPlayer.

    All you are doing is punishing legitimate users of the BBC iPlayer service whilst the people who are using less than reputable means are having no problems whatsoever.

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  • Message 27. Posted by Andres (U14352555) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    This is annoying and frustrating.

    Firstly, why are the BBC still using closed-source solutions which offer limited connectivity to anyone not using vanilla microsoft windows.?

    Secondly, even putting up with this restriction, why then close the remaining options without informing the community so that alternatives can be found.

    Thirdly, from The Register - "Ironically, third party utilities that download files (which presumably the verification is there to prevent) still work fine". This makes me even angrier.., Even the attempt to close down streaming alternatives has been botched which just shows the level of competence and understanding that the BBC have of the "internet".

    Frankly, it's enough to make me pack up my trusty XMBC/XBOX and look at more convenient alternatives that are less palatable to the powers that be.

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  • Message 28. Posted by bushbrother (U14352773) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    I just wanted to add that not just XBMC users are affected by this quite surprising move by the BBC. I am a user of MediaPortal which also has a plugin to access the brilliant iPlayer content.

    Again this plugin is for streaming only, no saving of content, and works in the UK ONLY. It even uses the BBC RSS feeds to let you create your own "playlists".

    I fail to see how this is improving the service what so ever, the BBC is just driving people to use "other" methods of catching up on content instead of using the service legitimately. I truely feel that forcing people to use software with companies the BBC has "agreements" with goes against everything the iPlayer represented. I pay my licence fee for the content and now you are forcing me to use some software I dont want to in order to get it.

    Shocking BBC. Shocking.

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  • Message 29. Posted by Matt Hunt (U14352799) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    Due to the hours I work I only ever get to see the programs that I want to watch on iPlayer on my TV through XBMC. I hope that as 'we' pay for the BBC to exist that they will listen to what is a vast community of users of this XBMC plugin.

    It will be a great shame if this situation cannot be resolved and no doubt it will force a lot of people to use other, not so legal ways of watching BBC content.

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  • Message 30. Posted by Dadofthree (U14352803) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    I too want to add my feelings about the Iplayer streams being changed to lock out the XBMC Iplayer plugin.

    I used the Iplayer plugin to watch BBC content on my television via a low power linux HTPC. I have three children under five and found the plugin the easiest way to show them Cbeebies and wildlife shows. They were very upset last week when they could not watch "Little Prairie Dogs" as I had promised them. They, and I, are very saddened that we can no longer watch shows as we used to.

    As others have said the plugin actively avoids contravention of the terms and conditions of Iplayer; and I find it quite ironic that In trying to find out what had happened I discovered other methods to obtain BBC content which blatantly ignore the Iplayer T&C.

    The plugin is very well designed and is certainly the easiest method I have found to view Iplayer. The BBC should be actively working to support, not block, it.

    I think the BBC should endorse and encourage all legitimate methods to enjoy the content that we, the licence payers, fund.

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  • Message 31. Posted by Simon Partridge (U14352249) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    Come on BBC, your a public service broadcaster so give us back our service.

    The iplayer plugin on XBMC (IMHO) is the best implementation, most flexible (stream choices) and easiest to navigate. Beats the wii and iphone version which are form over function. It only works in the UK and only streams.

    Any assistance the BBC can give to allow Dink and the XBMC devs to get this back up and running is one more reason the XBOX users can continue to use the trusty XBOX as a media centre and save them going to landfill.

    Everyone 'talks' green but in the end they just want to sell us more tech when what we have 'can do' what 90% of users need. I think the BBC needs to step back and balance the licence payers needs with satisfying what ever reasoning this change was made under.

    Remember 24 million XBOX sold worldwide - probably many millions left in the UK that can happily do what lots of people want.

    Plenty of good stuff on the BBC site on it's service it promises to us - just one little except below:

    "The BBC will aim to:

    Commission innovative multi-platform content.
    Deliver the technology which allows the content to be played out on multiple platforms.
    Secure partnerships to increase distribution on emerging platforms."

    I think I am right in saying the the XBOX and XBMC are one of the most long standing 'platforms' away from the PC for the iplayer. Lets hope they see the value of existing and older platforms rather then just the emerging ones.

    I think the BBC and the BBC iplayer are great - lets hope they can find a way to keep the XBMC plugin on all platforms.

    Many thanks for the daily use - lets re think this and get it back for all of us please.

    Many thanks

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  • Message 32. Posted by Mark De Paola (U14352907) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    I too must chime in with my dismay at this move by the BBC.

    I've recently been singing the BBC's praises as a forerunner in digital distribution to many of my friends and colleagues, iPlayer and XBMC has over the past year, quite literally changed the way that I watch the content my license fee entitles me to.

    I do not know of a more perfect way in which to watch iPlayer, XBMC is freely available and highly respectable open source Media Centre software, that can turn the majority of computers into perfect Television iPlayer playback devices, without extra cost to the end user.

    If rumours are to be believed, the BBC couldn't reach an agreement with Microsoft with regards to watching iPlayer through the XBOX 360 platform because of the extra cost levied on the user with their dependency on a £35 Gold Subscription.

    Surely open-source projects that respect the iPlayer T&Cs fit the BBC's ongoing mandate perfectly.

    30 seconds with google churned up a comment by the BBC's Anthony Rose;
    Piracy will always exist, but "my job is to make it so easy to use legally that you wouldn't bother hacking it,"

    Really?? That is exactly what XBMC, and the Plug-in were doing!

    I understand this action may have been taken with regards to preventing access by unlawful software, but as previously mentioned those people circumventing your rules are still able to do so. I cannot understand why the BBC would block content to those users that respect the iPlayer and its distribution rules.

    Is it now an official BBC stance that I have to purchase a Playstation 3 or Wii console to achieve the same experience?

    Come on BBC, so many people love this service, surely it cant make sense to you either?! There must be a better solution.

    Many thanks

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  • Message 33. Posted by petemcfc (U14351168) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    Oddly it appears that no one from the BBC is prepared to offer an answer to these questions.

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  • Message 34. Posted by bushbrother (U14352773) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    Anyone from the BBC reading this and care to comment?

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  • Message 35. Posted by teyene (U14171267) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    This is hugely disappointing.

    This plugin was the only way I could watch iPlayer content on my TV. A method (as far as I could tell) that was perfectly legitimate.

    I can only assume this is an unfortunate knock-on effect of the BBC trying to prevent access via other illegitimate methods.

    I just hope the BBC can see this project shared many of their values, and that this issue can be resolved amicably in the near future.

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  • Message 36. Posted by stinksoup (U14353527) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    Lots of people here have already (very eloquently) argued the case for the XBMC iPlayer plugin. I am here simply to add my voice to the call. Dear BBC, please re-instate our plugin!

    This is the same plugin that you have previously promoted! backstage.bbc.co.uk/...

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  • Message 37. Posted by matt (U8621220) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    @dink
    Does the plug-in make use of the BBC's RSS feeds and does it meet the RSS Terms of Use that Jonathan linked to earlier?

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  • Message 38. Posted by The Phazer (U815970) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    The plugin's developer(s) have always intended to keep its operation within the terms of the BBC, and not make any illicit use of content (streaming rather than downloading content, not changing format, keeping access within the UK, etc).


    It would appear that the very existance of it is considered somewhat illicit - see jonathan.tweed.name/...

    I do agree it's probably just been a victim of attempts to block get_iPlayer - a great example of thieves spoiling things for everyone - but to be honest the only reason this plug in has probably never had any action taken against it is because not many people use XBMC, so I think you're on to a total loser hoping for it's reinstatement.

    Phazer

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  • Message 39. Posted by obo789 (U14353685) on Wednesday, 24th February 2010permalink

    Just to add another vote for XBMC & iplayer plugin.

    I use(d) the plugin in XBMC regularly for exactly the purpose the BBC iplayer was designed for: to watch programmes I'd missed, on the TV in my lounge, on demand when it suited me. Just click and watch, no hassles of downloading to my windows PC or watching on my PC monitor.

    Hope it can be resolved.

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  • Message 40. Posted by John99 (U13871221) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    The good news:
    your comments have been noticed & made it on to a bbc blogg:www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...

    Th bad news:
    As the blog link to theRegister says:

    "Whether the BBC will back down and allow the XBMC plugin to stream iPlayer on non-Flash systems remains to be seen, however. Presumably that depends on where its relationship stands with Adobe as well as of course its viewers and listeners" { www.theregister.co.u... ]

    I must say my own personal view is that as long as this is not a security risk for the BBC it should be allowed. The problem is, (that whilst I do not know,) it probably does open up a big gaping hole.

    John

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  • Message 41. Posted by emaggio (U14353906) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    The same problem here. XMBC was a very convenient way to watch iPlayer content on my TV. Removing this possibility reduces the quality of the service I receive in exchange for the license fee.

    It seems clear that with this move BBC has affected perfectly legal plugins like the XMBC one while failing to tackle the problem of illegal programs that allow to download (and not only stream) BBC content.

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  • Message 42. Posted by Alex (U12312696) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    "The problem is, (that whilst I do not know,) it probably does open up a big gaping hole."

    The system already has a gaping security hole. Adobe's Verification system is essentially flawed as it cannot really verify that player at the other end is what it thinks it is. There will almost certainly be solutions that circumnavigate the SWF Verification step, just search for rtmpdump for examples. However the XBMC developers don't want to enter this grey area for fear of DMCA prosecutions in the states. Hence developers who are trying to play by the BBC rules (stream only, no stream ripping) get denied access which will move a number of their users onto more capable (i.e. rights infringing) solutions.

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  • Message 43. Posted by bodksi (U14353969) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    Another digruntled license fee paying XBMC iPlayer viewer here.

    Not only does Adobe Flash force us to use high power computers from a PC screen with dubious results, it is also notoriously bad for security issues and malware with Adobe's track record of known security holes taking months(or years) to fix.

    If my kids can't watch Cbeebies on the TV downstairs through XBMC, I'm afraid I will also have to find other ways of letting them do this.

    To those who say: 'Use the official channels to view iPlayer or shut up...' , this is not just another comany we are talking about. This is the BBC, a state funded, public service broadcaster with a clear mandate to provide its license fee payers with accessible content without platform discrimination. XBMC iPlayer project has gone out of its way to comply with the BBCs wishes that content is not downloaded, only streamed. Come on BBC, if anyone has enough clout to stand up to the copyright/media cartels for viewers interests it is YOU!!!

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  • Message 44. Posted by petemcfc (U14351168) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    And still the tumbleweed rolls along the corridors of the BBC,
    It looks like they cannot or will not provide a reply.
    Shameful.

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  • Message 45. Posted by Dadofthree (U14352803) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    I don't think they care. I think they see us as a nuisance just like the viewers who very inconveniently noticed that the changes to to the BBCHD Freesat feed have now made the picture quality rubbish.

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  • Message 46. Posted by Simon Partridge (U14352249) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    I don't you can expect much of an answer any time soon, never mind any action.

    See this thread for high CPU usage on OSX www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...

    98 comments long and first raised in Oct 2009 and looks not to be fixed.

    You have to remember this is a very large publicly funded organisation so the iplayer team probably have to get the agreement of 20 managers, go through change control process, meetings etc etc before the software engineers revert the change that probably took months of meetings to decide on in the first place smiley - winkeye

    I'm not holding my breath for a miraculous turn around - I think I will have to start looking at alternatives smiley - sadface

    Cheers

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  • Message 47. Posted by David Allonby (U14352443) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    I would like to see the documentation from the same process of 20-manager reviews that led to the software engineers being allowed to turn this ON. I doubt it exists, rather I suspect Johnny Dogooder in the server closet found a new box to tick... and so ticked it.

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  • Message 48. Posted by petemcfc (U14351168) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    I was expecting a comment from " jon iplayer host" ,he seems to have thrown his hand in after the initial posts,even though reading his comments on other threads he is in contact with the BBC techies.

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  • Message 49. Posted by Matt Sephton (U1212465) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    I'd also like to state that I am unhappy with the changes t

    A couple of weeks ago I moved to Cornwall from London and had been using iPlayer on XBMC to catch up on the TV we missed during the moving period where we were waiting to get our services back up and running.

    Please change things back to the way they were.

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  • Message 50. Posted by Robert (U14354604) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    I'm another dissappointed ex-xbmc iplayer user... why have we been shut out of iplayer?

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  • Message 51. Posted by Onslow The Cat (U13672446) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    To re-iterate previous posts, but worth reminding you about this blog which explains what's going on, more or less:

    www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...

    Also worth remembering that the BBC seems to prefer giving updates in blogs, not by responding to this mb. Even iPlayer updates aren't posted in iPlayer mbs but usually in blogs of smiley - titering.

    Also you might consider the offer to tell the BBC Trust your opinions about iPlayer in this survey.

    www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...

    As has been previously mentioned the removal of xbmc iplayer plugin appears to be for a corporate reason, so I can't see any reversal of this decision soon.

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  • Message 52. Posted by Smiff2 (U14354439) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    That bbc blog doesn't answer any of the questions.. but at least it's been noted, and the comments are excellent.

    Does the Beeb realise what a disaster this is? For themselves mainly? See how many replies this thread is getting. This may not seem very significant now but I think in 10-20 years it's going to mark a turning point in how the BBC fits (or doesn't) in the future of content creation and delivery. There must be at least one person inside the BBC who 'gets' why this change is fundamentally wrong.. the whole tech department is probably well aware.
    Over the last couple of years some of the BBC's most loyal viewers have helped to build arguably the greatest viewing platform ever (XBMC and its derivatives, available free for almost any desktop/laptop/htpc), tailored it specifically for BBC content, in their spare time, and made that available for other BBC viewers still for free, and all in keeping with the terms of iPlayer (I'm talking about people like Dink on the XBMC forum, and all those users/viewers who have helped out). Of course we couldn't have done this without some very able people on the BBC's end aswell, even if they weren't specifically working with us, so thanks for that (whilst it lasted).
    Then a week ago the BBC unceremoniously killed it, ruined those viewers' work and left all its users in the dark, apparently not even recognising what they'd done!
    You have basically just pushed thousands (of your more technically able viewers) into piracy or giving up watching your content (note that plugins for other content are still working fine on our TVs, it's only BBC content we've lost), yet done nothing to stop those who were previously breaking the iPlayer terms! (i had never heard of g**_iplayer before this happened. I was quite happy streaming content from the BBC directly during the time you made it available).
    You need to find a way to restore free software access for legitimate use – as a priority: you can leave talk of iphone apps and such until watching BBC programms in high quality on our TVs on demand at home is possible again - and if this can't be worked out quickly, just roll back the changes made on Feb 18th until a satisfactory solution is reached. every day you do nothing you are losing viewers and support. The BBC had something uniquely good (great content plus technically good delivery network, accessible from an excellent frontend) and it's a real shame if it ends like this!

    There are two errors in the Reg article: it was H264 streams we were using (much higher quality than flash!), and the plugin was last updated only about a month ago.

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  • Message 53. Posted by edz2k10 (U14355193) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    Oh dear, this is the sort of narrow minded exclusionist idea that (A) you expect from commerically funded companies such as Sky and (B) leads inexorably towards promoting unauthorised file sharing.

    The XBMC plugin stayed solely within the realms and spirit of the iplayer package itself, no recording, no timeshifting just the ability to stream a suitable stream (the appropriate stream for the bandwidth could be selected) unlike the abysmal, restricted, poor performance resource hog that is the BBC application (which is locked to Microsoft products only anyway - so much for your governance mandate not to support one platform only).

    Not only that but the BBC tech team promoted the plugin a while back. naughty naughty going off the management and licensing divisions message!

    Using flash streaming (as has been mentioned here) is also not an option for everyone since flash is a poor performance playback medium that uses a lot of resources for mediocre performance. The H264 video stream embedded in the flash stream is fine once released.

    So, well done BBC. Youve terminated the finest way of using iplayer and, I note, just as you're promoting freesat iplayer and other options, coincidental no doubt.

    Well (A) I'm not going to buy a toy with iplayer enabled (licensed by the BBC at a large fee to Nintendo etc no doubt) (B) I dont want to watch programs sitting at my desk and (C) you haven't got Freesat iplayer working yet so that's it, there's now no "authorised" method of catch up TV from the BBC.

    Well done, iplayer is now dead to many users. Users who will happily go elsewhere (whether via alternate media providers - remember you're nothing special anymore BBC) or via the exact route you professed to want to stop.

    Poor, poor poor and exactly what I expect from the mis management at the BBC

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  • Message 54. Posted by gpuk (U14355217) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    I would like to add my support to this suggestion.

    Having spent over £400 on building an XBMC media centre so that I can enjoy the Iplayer's catch-up features in my living room I cannot begin to describe my disappointment to learn the BBC have decided to unilaterally block open access to their content and effectively force a platform choice on me.

    The gift of the license fee is what allows the BBC to be the world beating force it is. This ability to avoid having to kow-tow to short sighted commercial interests lies at the heart of the BBC's success and opneness and I simply don't accept that the same principles should not be applied to the Iplayer. The technology exists to keep the system open and doing so represents no greater threat from piracy than if it remains closed.

    I sincerely ask you to reconsider your partnership with Adobe. You can do better than this.

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  • Message 55. Posted by Oddsodz (U9331211) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    I Shall add my 2p.

    Let's just take a look and the long game here. Now the iPlayer has been and I am sure will continue to be super. Remember a few years ago we was all going mad for the linux/Mac versions of the iPlayer. And in the end they made it. We can now use the BBC iPlayer software on Mac and Linux. So lets not go overboard and start a hanging match of the iPlayer dev teams.

    As for the plugin for XBMC. I Use (or used too) it all the time. It is (was) great. I Just hope it can be sorted real fast. As it is a really REALLY good tool. And should not be lost due to small legal issues. The service is of high grade. Let's not lose it now.

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  • Message 56. Posted by edz2k10 (U14355193) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    Just as an aside to the poster above, there is NO iplayer app for linux the only full iplayer application uses DRM (digital rights management to prevent you keeping a copy or, well, doing anything the BBC thinks is naughty) to lock down and delete the recording if you dont watch it within their time limit.

    The only cross system option is to stream the flash video over the web (the file is never stored on your machine) this doesnt work well on all machines especially the new, lower power (eco friendly - remember when the BBC thought that was a good idea?) net tops such as the acer revo. These choke up using flash which Adobe only offer lip service to supporting under linux anyway (the linux version is a massive resource hog and doesnt work very well). Flash is also renowned for opening up security vulnerabilities as well as locking the BBC into a single provider, something that is supposed to be against their mandate!

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  • Message 57. Posted by Did_I_Say_That (U14172075) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    The XBMC plugin stayed solely within the realms and spirit of the iplayer package itself, no recording, no timeshifting just the ability to stream a suitable stream (the appropriate stream for the bandwidth could be selected) unlike the abysmal, restricted, poor performance resource hog that is the BBC application (which is locked to Microsoft products only anyway - so much for your governance mandate not to support one platform only).


    Most of the last 20 or so posts use the same or similarly pathetic arguments, postulations and contorted truths. How could you expect a wider community to support you or have any empathy for your "loss" when comments like these have been made... "Spirit of iPayer", "locked to Microsoft products only", "there's now no "authorised" method of catch up TV from the BBC" , "Well done, iplayer is now dead to many users" and not to mention the ol' favourite "I pay my license fee..." then there's the utterly convincing tone of "put it back BBC...or you'll force me to steal!". I'm sure the BBC are rushing to roll back the change for that one!

    I just can't help feel this noble cause is nothing more than impressively worded stupidity and rapidly cooling hot air. Oh, its in the register and promptly plopped of the page...

    I honestly wish you well but think the arguments need to be a little more convincing.

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  • Message 58. Posted by petemcfc (U14351168) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    You are responding to quite alot of seperate threads are you an employee?

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  • Message 59. Posted by Dadofthree (U14352803) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    He may or may not be an employee but he's certainly a fool.

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  • Message 60. Posted by edz2k10 (U14355193) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    Firstly, please understand I am not interested in personal comments which will only serve to get this thread locked.

    Secondly, why post? You have made no suggestion, feedback or comment apart from insulting people who are pointing out to the BBC that they have, without consultation pulled support from an application that helped to bolster support for iPlayer when the BBC had no cross operating system version apart from the Windows only application.

    Nobody is saying put it back or I'll steal it, people are pointing out that the BBC et al havem themselves, publicly, said that they would make it easier to use iplayer than to download unauthorised material via p2p and similar services.

    This is wider than a plugin for one application (XBMC).

    Yes, tempers are running high. The BBC have at the same time as pulling support for non encrypted RTMP streaming (the method that was being used here) made it available in a restricted and locked down format on the WII and, I believe, apple mobile products (ipod/phone). This means to use the Iplayer, and this is important, you have to use a desktop app or purchase a new product.

    Finally the points about the "spirit of the rules" etc are meant to point out that applications which allow high quality iplayer content to be downloaded permanently still work perfectly. Only those that fullfill the original ideal of streaming and keeping the BBC and the content providers desperately important rights safe have been blocked.


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  • Message 61. Posted by petemcfc (U14351168) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    Off topic but from experience with a problem with a Talk Talk router -set up a poster who offered advice was an employee masking as a punter,I also visited the Betavane/Vodaphone forum for a bit of advise regarding a linux set up again an employee responded.
    So the Beeb has to respond by throwing in a troll.

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  • Message 62. Posted by tundenscanis (U14355514) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    I'm intrigued that BBC's blogger appears to attempt to sideline, or belittle the issue thus: "The Register reports on unhappy developers who have been made unhappy by recent changes to iPlayer".

    I think you'll find that whilst the developers must be "unhappy", the real problem is the thousands of licence fee payers (and their young children fans of Cbeebies, like mine) who you've upset by rendering their equipment useless.

    Can you please explain what you are trying to achieve?

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  • Message 63. Posted by petemcfc (U14351168) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    They carnt, there have been two BBC employees on here going out of their way to state that we are wasting our time,
    Its a bit pathetic and patronising really.

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  • Message 64. Posted by Simon Partridge (U14352249) on Thursday, 25th February 2010permalink

    @Did_I_Say_That (U14172075)

    Please feel free to impressively word an argument for us.

    I think you can (even in-between the hot air and our stupidity) - feel the love for the BBC's content and the method us like minded individuals choose to watch it.

    Emotions are stirred due to the enjoyment of the content and how we were getting it in the most cost effective, convenient and flexible way. The iplayer plugin is fit for purpose and bears no obvious threat to the BBC, it's content and its ability to continue to be an impressive broadcaster. If a representative from the BBC can outline all the benefits to us from adding SWF authentication and how it benefits the majority at our (minorities) expense then it may go some way in quelling our emotions.

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  • Message 65. Posted by Davejt (U14356636) on Friday, 26th February 2010permalink

    I am a recent convert to XBMC as O want wo make my media experience linked into one source ie the TV. The Iplayer plugin was superb and ideally I would have wanted all channels to be availavle through that route. The Catchup service is ideal for me as I am never around when things I want to watch or listen to are broadcast. I would have thought the BBC would understand the growing desire to do this sort of thing and as a licence payer I would expect them to cater for such needs. I am not technically minded but if the BB can sort this out once and for all them that would be superb.

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  • Message 66. Posted by Smiff2 (U14354439) on Friday, 26th February 2010permalink

    To help everyone (especially those who currently watch mostly or entirely on freeview/subscription digital satellite services) to understand the problem, may I tell a little, entirely fictional story? Please bare with me...

    ***

    Let's turn the clock back 30 or 40 years.
    The British people all watch their BBC programs on their analogue TVS and listening to their FM radios. Britain still has a manufacturing sector, so some of those sets are even made in here in Britain. You've even heard of some strange guys who apparently like to make their own TVs - they seem very complicated and are always breaking down, but you realise those people aren't harming anyone so you let them get on with it! Anyway, one day, a small minority of the British people wake up and find their programs are getting cut off after a minute or so. They think there must be something wrong with their sets and think never mind, they'll try again later - or if it's a problem at the transmitter it'll soon be fixed. They don't have the internet, so they ask friends and neighbours if they too are having trouble picking up their favourite programs and it seems most other people's TVs and radio are working fine! Soon, that minority have missed a week of programming and haven't heard any explanation of what's wrong...

    I'm not sure what happens next (I could sarcastically add that, since there's nothing else to watch in 1975 they then go outside and take up a more productive hobby). But perhaps if we're lucky the news media picks up the story and we realise it's small groups of people all over the country affected, and that the major brands of TV all seem fine. most likely someone at the BBC knocks heads together and things get put back to how they were. But suppose a journalist uncovers that the BBC has done a secret deal with a group of the largest foreign TV set makers to prevent any others from working, so that everyone in the UK will be forced to buy those devices - to watch the content they're already paying for. Apparently there's some special part that has to go into the TV for it to work with BBC programmes, and ordinary people can't buy this part. It's illegal, or expensive, or both. there would be an outrage! most likely the government would have got involved and reminded the BBC of their public service commitment and asked them basically: what were they trying to achieve? Says one government minister "it's isn't the BBC's business to dictate how the public accesses BBC programming", adding "the BBC should never strike deals with private companies that conflict with their public service commitment".

    ***

    I hope everyone understands the analogy, it isn't subtle, but is there anything basically wrong with it? I realise there are new issues with internet streaming TV that aren't taken into account here, and the whole diversity of devices is very different from how things were then, but the point still stands. Whatever problem the BBC was trying to fix this time, the solution they chose was the wrong one and has some scary and harmful consequences in the long term.
    Thanks for reading!

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  • Message 67. Posted by DaveNeedsToKnow (U2453641) on Friday, 26th February 2010permalink

    I'd just like to add my voice to this request. I have used IPlayer on XBMC for quite some time now with a dedicated box under my TV. Its the only way I use IPlayer and the main way I watch BBC you the BBC broke it without warning with little hope of it ever working again.

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  • Message 68. Posted by Lee (U14357305) on Friday, 26th February 2010permalink

    Well I, my wife and 5 year old daughter are very disappointed by this change to the extent that it has made us seriously question why we continue to play a license fee since now we will be watching zero BBC material.

    XBMC and the iplayer plugin are technically far superior to any other solution out there and had attempted to both morally and legally comply with the iplayer terms of use; it is RIDICULOUS to exclude it.

    I hope someone at the beeb with some common sense either undoes this recent change or adds the iplayer to the list of approved plugins otherwise I suspect we'll all soon be engaged in a pointless DRM war to use a service which we actually pay for.

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  • Message 69. Posted by zippydo (U14358112) on Saturday, 27th February 2010permalink

    I am extremely disappointment by the recent changes made to BBC iplayer. My 6 and 8 year old daughters where regular viewers of the service using XBMC and since the Nintendo Wii is not really up to the task (being wireless) they are left without a viable alternative.

    As a license holder i can understand the need to prevent unauthorized viewing of BBC content, but the iplayer plugin for XBMC complies with all necessary security, and was even detailed on BBC backstage.

    backstage.bbc.co.uk/...

    Change we please return to normal iplayer viewing ASAP.

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  • Message 70. Posted by Nick (U14358167) on Saturday, 27th February 2010permalink

    I would like to add my voice to this discussion.

    I am bitterly disappointed that the BBC has introduced this layer of protection that render open source players useless for iplayer.

    Like everyone else here, I pay my licence fee and connot understand why I should be restricted to what platform I am allowed to use to stream iplayer content.

    Over the years I have experimented with many devices/platforms to allow my family (ages 43 to 5 years) easy access our media collection and to streaming services such as iplayer.

    In my opinion, XBMC is the best at doing this. All in my family have been using XBMC for many years, we are now missing very much the lack of iplayer support.

    BBC, please revert/modify iplayer so that we can again enjoy iplayer on XBMC.

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