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xbmc iplayer plugin
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The recent change in the iplayer streaming has had the effect of removing the BBC from my television. In my area the analog signal has been switched off and since then I have been using my old xbox to watch BBC programs
The xbmc iplayer plugin does in no way interfere with the streaming nor does it allow anyone to save the stream in order to watch later. Can anyone explain why the BBC would want to withhold its content from license fee payers like me?I have found a solution. Costs about £30 but enables permanent recording of iplayer content. www.maplin.co.uk/Mod... I'll give the xbmc guys a chance to fix the streaming problem before I buy.
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I also use the XBMC iPlayer and am annoyed that this now does not work. I live in Cambridge, which has notoriously bad television reception and use my XBOX to catch up on BBC programmes.
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Up until the changes the BBC made I was using the Xbox Media Centre iplayer plugin to watch iplayer content on my television.
I don't see any reason for the BBC to want to stop people from watching iplayer content on their televisions, especially seeing as the iplayer plugin doesn't do anything that the official website doesn't do (streams cannot be saved etc.).
Why have the changes been made and could an exception be made for the XBMC plugin?This is a reply to this message.
It was with dismay that I found the plugin had stopped working - short of going out and spending hundreds of pounds on "legitimate" products, I now cant watch iPlayer through my TV. I can watch it on an iPhone, but it's hardly practical!
A real shame - XBMC is a superb solution which puts most commercial media players to shame, and the iPlayer plugin was developed with complete respect for the restrictions the BBC implemented in the PC version of iPlayer.This is a reply to this message.
The plugin is distributed free,as is XBMC,so I cannot see any reason for the BBC not to support it.
The XBOX 360 issue I fully understand but not thisThis is a reply to this message.
If it is following the terms as described here we cannot support it iplayerhelp.external...
JonathanThis is a reply to this message.
Jonathan,
Thanks for the reply but that page seems to relate to RSS feeds?
JonThis is a reply to this message.
Thanks for the reply Jonathan, but I don't quite understand. Did you mean to say that it cannot be supported if it is >not< following the terms?
Still that page doesn't seem relevant to the iplayer plugin for XBMC.This is a reply to this message.
Please, please, please BBC. It would be wonderful if you are able to help the XBMC guys to allow this great plugin to work with iplayer again.
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I'm also very disappointed that I can no longer catch up with shows I've missed using the iPlayer plugin for XBMC Media Player. I really don't want to go back to using the Wii or PS3 because they simply aren't as easy to use or as nice as XBMC.
As a TV licence payer I'd like to know the reason why I can't use XBMC to watch what I've paid for.This is a reply to this message.
As a TV licence payer
You don't need a license to use iPlayer's catch-up facility. You only need one if you watch live streaming.This is a reply to this message.
I don't think he was implying that he had to be a licence fee payer to use Iplayer, I think he was just mentioning that his licence fee goes toward the Iplayer service.
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From what I can tell, the XBMC plugin used our RSS feeds. The FAQ also states that we cannot support third-party applications that use our feeds.
JonathanThis is a reply to this message.
Thanks Jonathan.
I suppose we're not asking the BBC to "support" XBMC directly.
Instead is there any possibility that XBMC clients can be added to some sort of whitelist to exclude them from the Adobe SWF Verification that was switched on to the Catch Up feed on 17th Feb?
JonThis is a reply to this message.
I also frequently used the iPlayer plugin on XBMC and was very disappointed to see it fail due to changes at the BBC's end.
Up until last week it really improved my experience of watching iPlayer by making it accessible on my budget media centre. I imagine that it's very popular with most of the UK's XBMC's user base. It is certainly one of the most popular plugins on XBMC as can be seen by the fact that, even when functioning perfectly, the iPlayer plugin topic rarely leaves the first page of the XBMC forums (in the relevant section). Basically what I'm saying is that it was a popular, convenient, and well constructed way of delivering BBC iPlayer content to those who wanted to stream it.
The plugin's developer(s) have always intended to keep its operation within the terms of the BBC, and not make any illicit use of content (streaming rather than downloading content, not changing format, keeping access within the UK, etc).
I really hope we can get this excellent plugin working again soon - I'm already tired of getting my Winter Olympics fix on my little laptop screen!!This is a reply to this message.
I'm sure there's no malicious intent on the BBC's side other than to ensure the streams they provide for their own services meet the copyright holders interests. If it was easy (relatively speaking) for the XBMC to develop it as far as they had, then I'm sure there's going to be the same amount of relative ease to get it back working.
It looks to be one of the expected effects of an update for unsupported services. It not the BBC that have to comply with the change, its the XBMC devs.
However, if the BBC made the update deliberately so as to offer its own proper BBC branded iPlayer product, then I'm not sure that there's anything wrong with it.
Ultimately, its what you get when you support hacks!This is a reply to this message.
I do realise that there was no malicious intent in the alterations the BBC made to their streaming. The problem is that the plugin's users and developers would very much like to stay within the law (including the BBC's own Terms & Conditions) in using the plugin! As I understand it the latest changes make it very difficult to do so without obtaining direct permission for exemption from SWF verification from the content holder (SWF verification is not supported by XBMC) .
The "same amount of relative ease to get the player working again" quote simply does not apply because it's not simply a matter of getting it working, but getting it working legally, and with everyone's' interests satisfied. Which I believe is why discussion has moved over here to the BBC forums, as the BBC needs to be satisfied that the XBMC plugin is not a malicious use of the iPlayer before we can move on.
I do also appreciate that these more 'hacky' solutions do break from time-to-time. However in this instance the problem is more complicated than just in the programming of the plugin. It would seem a shame to lose such a good quality way of watching iPlayer when nobody seems to win; the user loses the best way of watching the content, and the content providers end up losing a way of delivering that content. At the same time providing (in the eyes of the user) a lower quality of service due to the the user being restricted to a less comfortable viewing situation. And all this while the user wants to legally enjoy the BBC's content using a solution that, were it not for this recent complication, is already there!This is a reply to this message.
Jonathan,
Would it be possible for the BBC iplayer team to have a look at this situation? Nobody expects the plugin to be supported by the BBC but maybe there could be some sort of easy accomodation? I have no idea of the technical details at issue here but could someone possibly spare a bit of time to talk to the developer? It may well be that nothing can be done but it would be such a shame for this popular service to die without at least seeing if a simple fix could be agreed.This is a reply to this message.
Jon
Just to clarifiy the situation here is some background info. The software being discussed runs on the popular open source media center software XBMC (see http://xbmc.org for more info). It is implemented as a Plugin which extends XBMC to provide an IPlayer client (see code.google.com/p/xb... )
The XBMC plugin sought to provide the best possible IPlayer TV experience.
... it runs on a wide range of hardware platforms and OSs: PCs, Macs, Apple TV, ARM boxes. Running any of Windows, OSX or Linux
... It can run on low power hardware as it uses efficient software and has the ability to use hardware H.264 acceleration
... has a UI that's optimized for use by a remote
... has a UI that's works well on both SD and HD TVs
... gives the user fine grained control of playback - exactly which stream is used (important for bandwidth and bandwidth caps) and how it's decoded (what looks best on my setup).
The problem is that late last week the IPlayer streams started using SWF Verficiation. This is an Adobe provided mechanism which seeks to ensure that only offical clients can access the RTMP streams. Being an unoffical client which isn't on a whitelist the XBMC Iplayer plugin is therefore locked out.
Regards
Dink (plugin developer)This is a reply to this message.
I wanted to add my voice to other xbmc users on this thread.
The XBMC plugin has served as the only reliable way for me to watch the iplayer catchup service on my TV. It represents a low cost solution which seems very much in tune with the aspirations which underlie the iPlayer and the BBC itself: providing high quality, reliable content to viewers in the UK.
I am in awe of the developers who have worked on this open source project and it would be a tremendous shame if this issue could not be worked out.
I am a middle aged suburban license fee payer who would never dream of accessing BBC content surreptitiously or illegally.
Hope things can be resolved soon!
JonathanThis is a reply to this message.
I just saw this thread. Please BBC do something to re-enable this. My 3 yo daughter loves your Cbeebies programs and was often watching them on XBMC
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Adding my thoughts too:
I would love to see the return to functionality of the XBMC iPlayer plugin, both my daughters adore watching Cbeebies on it, and we all miss it desperately - please BBC, throw us a bone! This is the best implementation of iPlayer that I have found!This is a reply to this message.
xbmc and iplayer plugin is a fantastic way of letting myself wife and kids watch their favourite programmes on the TV (similar to the Wii advert but without the £150 initial outlay for the system)
i hope their is a way for the BBC to work with XBMC and Dink to come to a solution. it would be a huge loss if this plugin was to be confined to the scrapheap....
thanksThis is a reply to this message.
I'm an XBMC developer who works on librtmp, upon which the iplayer plugin relies. It'd fall on my (or other people giving their time freely and without reward) shoulders to implement the SWFVerification feature.
Given Adobe's stance against rtmpdump (www.chillingeffects.... an open source tool which forked librtmp and added an implementation of the SWFVerification feature, I think it's fair to say that we'd rather not add this feature to our codebase, just to support iplayer.
The iPlayer XBMC plugin has a long history, following the 'spirit' of the iplayer rules to the letter (no recording, no geoloc evasion), gaining plenty of press attention and generally painting the BBC in a very positive light on a multitude of platforms. The plugin attracted the attention of BBC employees, and indeed was showcased on backstage.bbc.co.uk.
Perhaps i'm being naive, but I just don't see what implementing SWFVerification has accomplished here. If you *really* wanted to break the OSS community, you'd switch to rtmpe. All I can guess is that this was a misdirected 'ticked the wrong box' upgrade, and can hopefully be resolved swiftly.
If anyone at the BBC would like to discuss informally, [Personal details removed by Moderator]This is a reply to this message.
I'm what I consider a fairly medium to heavy user of the BBC iPlayer service.
I primarily use it through XBMC to catch up with tv.
Even though I own a freesat pvr my main method of watching BBC shows is through XBMC via my HTPC on my 40" HDTV in my living room.
I am very disappointed with the BBC for excluding XBMC.
Please reconsider your choice guys about kicking off XBMC, the iPlayer plugin for XBMC doesn't let people download the shows, it streams them just like the normal iPlayer and prevents people from watching shows past the 7 day window just like the normal iPlayer.
All you are doing is punishing legitimate users of the BBC iPlayer service whilst the people who are using less than reputable means are having no problems whatsoever.This is a reply to this message.
This is annoying and frustrating.
Firstly, why are the BBC still using closed-source solutions which offer limited connectivity to anyone not using vanilla microsoft windows.?
Secondly, even putting up with this restriction, why then close the remaining options without informing the community so that alternatives can be found.
Thirdly, from The Register - "Ironically, third party utilities that download files (which presumably the verification is there to prevent) still work fine". This makes me even angrier.., Even the attempt to close down streaming alternatives has been botched which just shows the level of competence and understanding that the BBC have of the "internet".
Frankly, it's enough to make me pack up my trusty XMBC/XBOX and look at more convenient alternatives that are less palatable to the powers that be.This is a reply to this message.
I just wanted to add that not just XBMC users are affected by this quite surprising move by the BBC. I am a user of MediaPortal which also has a plugin to access the brilliant iPlayer content.
Again this plugin is for streaming only, no saving of content, and works in the UK ONLY. It even uses the BBC RSS feeds to let you create your own "playlists".
I fail to see how this is improving the service what so ever, the BBC is just driving people to use "other" methods of catching up on content instead of using the service legitimately. I truely feel that forcing people to use software with companies the BBC has "agreements" with goes against everything the iPlayer represented. I pay my licence fee for the content and now you are forcing me to use some software I dont want to in order to get it.
Shocking BBC. Shocking.This is a reply to this message.
Due to the hours I work I only ever get to see the programs that I want to watch on iPlayer on my TV through XBMC. I hope that as 'we' pay for the BBC to exist that they will listen to what is a vast community of users of this XBMC plugin.
It will be a great shame if this situation cannot be resolved and no doubt it will force a lot of people to use other, not so legal ways of watching BBC content.This is a reply to this message.
I too want to add my feelings about the Iplayer streams being changed to lock out the XBMC Iplayer plugin.
I used the Iplayer plugin to watch BBC content on my television via a low power linux HTPC. I have three children under five and found the plugin the easiest way to show them Cbeebies and wildlife shows. They were very upset last week when they could not watch "Little Prairie Dogs" as I had promised them. They, and I, are very saddened that we can no longer watch shows as we used to.
As others have said the plugin actively avoids contravention of the terms and conditions of Iplayer; and I find it quite ironic that In trying to find out what had happened I discovered other methods to obtain BBC content which blatantly ignore the Iplayer T&C.
The plugin is very well designed and is certainly the easiest method I have found to view Iplayer. The BBC should be actively working to support, not block, it.
I think the BBC should endorse and encourage all legitimate methods to enjoy the content that we, the licence payers, fund.This is a reply to this message.
Come on BBC, your a public service broadcaster so give us back our service.
The iplayer plugin on XBMC (IMHO) is the best implementation, most flexible (stream choices) and easiest to navigate. Beats the wii and iphone version which are form over function. It only works in the UK and only streams.
Any assistance the BBC can give to allow Dink and the XBMC devs to get this back up and running is one more reason the XBOX users can continue to use the trusty XBOX as a media centre and save them going to landfill.
Everyone 'talks' green but in the end they just want to sell us more tech when what we have 'can do' what 90% of users need. I think the BBC needs to step back and balance the licence payers needs with satisfying what ever reasoning this change was made under.
Remember 24 million XBOX sold worldwide - probably many millions left in the UK that can happily do what lots of people want.
Plenty of good stuff on the BBC site on it's service it promises to us - just one little except below:
"The BBC will aim to:
Commission innovative multi-platform content.
Deliver the technology which allows the content to be played out on multiple platforms.
Secure partnerships to increase distribution on emerging platforms."
I think I am right in saying the the XBOX and XBMC are one of the most long standing 'platforms' away from the PC for the iplayer. Lets hope they see the value of existing and older platforms rather then just the emerging ones.
I think the BBC and the BBC iplayer are great - lets hope they can find a way to keep the XBMC plugin on all platforms.
Many thanks for the daily use - lets re think this and get it back for all of us please.
Many thanksThis is a reply to this message.
I too must chime in with my dismay at this move by the BBC.
I've recently been singing the BBC's praises as a forerunner in digital distribution to many of my friends and colleagues, iPlayer and XBMC has over the past year, quite literally changed the way that I watch the content my license fee entitles me to.
I do not know of a more perfect way in which to watch iPlayer, XBMC is freely available and highly respectable open source Media Centre software, that can turn the majority of computers into perfect Television iPlayer playback devices, without extra cost to the end user.
If rumours are to be believed, the BBC couldn't reach an agreement with Microsoft with regards to watching iPlayer through the XBOX 360 platform because of the extra cost levied on the user with their dependency on a £35 Gold Subscription.
Surely open-source projects that respect the iPlayer T&Cs fit the BBC's ongoing mandate perfectly.
30 seconds with google churned up a comment by the BBC's Anthony Rose;
Piracy will always exist, but "my job is to make it so easy to use legally that you wouldn't bother hacking it,"
Really?? That is exactly what XBMC, and the Plug-in were doing!
I understand this action may have been taken with regards to preventing access by unlawful software, but as previously mentioned those people circumventing your rules are still able to do so. I cannot understand why the BBC would block content to those users that respect the iPlayer and its distribution rules.
Is it now an official BBC stance that I have to purchase a Playstation 3 or Wii console to achieve the same experience?
Come on BBC, so many people love this service, surely it cant make sense to you either?! There must be a better solution.
Many thanksThis is a reply to this message.
Oddly it appears that no one from the BBC is prepared to offer an answer to these questions.
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Anyone from the BBC reading this and care to comment?
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This is hugely disappointing.
This plugin was the only way I could watch iPlayer content on my TV. A method (as far as I could tell) that was perfectly legitimate.
I can only assume this is an unfortunate knock-on effect of the BBC trying to prevent access via other illegitimate methods.
I just hope the BBC can see this project shared many of their values, and that this issue can be resolved amicably in the near future.This is a reply to this message.
Lots of people here have already (very eloquently) argued the case for the XBMC iPlayer plugin. I am here simply to add my voice to the call. Dear BBC, please re-instate our plugin!
This is the same plugin that you have previously promoted! backstage.bbc.co.uk/...This is a reply to this message.
@dink
Does the plug-in make use of the BBC's RSS feeds and does it meet the RSS Terms of Use that Jonathan linked to earlier?This is a reply to this message.
The plugin's developer(s) have always intended to keep its operation within the terms of the BBC, and not make any illicit use of content (streaming rather than downloading content, not changing format, keeping access within the UK, etc).
It would appear that the very existance of it is considered somewhat illicit - see jonathan.tweed.name/...
I do agree it's probably just been a victim of attempts to block get_iPlayer - a great example of thieves spoiling things for everyone - but to be honest the only reason this plug in has probably never had any action taken against it is because not many people use XBMC, so I think you're on to a total loser hoping for it's reinstatement.
PhazerThis is a reply to this message.
Just to add another vote for XBMC & iplayer plugin.
I use(d) the plugin in XBMC regularly for exactly the purpose the BBC iplayer was designed for: to watch programmes I'd missed, on the TV in my lounge, on demand when it suited me. Just click and watch, no hassles of downloading to my windows PC or watching on my PC monitor.
Hope it can be resolved.This is a reply to this message.
The good news:
your comments have been noticed & made it on to a bbc blogg:www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/...
Th bad news:
As the blog link to theRegister says:"Whether the BBC will back down and allow the XBMC plugin to stream iPlayer on non-Flash systems remains to be seen, however. Presumably that depends on where its relationship stands with Adobe as well as of course its viewers and listeners" { www.theregister.co.u... ]
I must say my own personal view is that as long as this is not a security risk for the BBC it should be allowed. The problem is, (that whilst I do not know,) it probably does open up a big gaping hole.
JohnThis is a reply to this message.
The same problem here. XMBC was a very convenient way to watch iPlayer content on my TV. Removing this possibility reduces the quality of the service I receive in exchange for the license fee.
It seems clear that with this move BBC has affected perfectly legal plugins like the XMBC one while failing to tackle the problem of illegal programs that allow to download (and not only stream) BBC content.This is a reply to this message.
"The problem is, (that whilst I do not know,) it probably does open up a big gaping hole."
The system already has a gaping security hole. Adobe's Verification system is essentially flawed as it cannot really verify that player at the other end is what it thinks it is. There will almost certainly be solutions that circumnavigate the SWF Verification step, just search for rtmpdump for examples. However the XBMC developers don't want to enter this grey area for fear of DMCA prosecutions in the states. Hence developers who are trying to play by the BBC rules (stream only, no stream ripping) get denied access which will move a number of their users onto more capable (i.e. rights infringing) solutions.This is a reply to this message.
Another digruntled license fee paying XBMC iPlayer viewer here.
Not only does Adobe Flash force us to use high power computers from a PC screen with dubious results, it is also notoriously bad for security issues and malware with Adobe's track record of known security holes taking months(or years) to fix.
If my kids can't watch Cbeebies on the TV downstairs through XBMC, I'm afraid I will also have to find other ways of letting them do this.
To those who say: 'Use the official channels to view iPlayer or shut up...' , this is not just another comany we are talking about. This is the BBC, a state funded, public service broadcaster with a clear mandate to provide its license fee payers with accessible content without platform discrimination. XBMC iPlayer project has gone out of its way to comply with the BBCs wishes that content is not downloaded, only streamed. Come on BBC, if anyone has enough clout to stand up to the copyright/media cartels for viewers interests it is YOU!!!This is a reply to this message.
And still the tumbleweed rolls along the corridors of the BBC,
It looks like they cannot or will not provide a reply.
Shameful.This is a reply to this message.
I don't think they care. I think they see us as a nuisance just like the viewers who very inconveniently noticed that the changes to to the BBCHD Freesat feed have now made the picture quality rubbish.
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I don't you can expect much of an answer any time soon, never mind any action.
See this thread for high CPU usage on OSX www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...
98 comments long and first raised in Oct 2009 and looks not to be fixed.
You have to remember this is a very large publicly funded organisation so the iplayer team probably have to get the agreement of 20 managers, go through change control process, meetings etc etc before the software engineers revert the change that probably took months of meetings to decide on in the first place
I'm not holding my breath for a miraculous turn around - I think I will have to start looking at alternatives
CheersThis is a reply to this message.
I would like to see the documentation from the same process of 20-manager reviews that led to the software engineers being allowed to turn this ON. I doubt it exists, rather I suspect Johnny Dogooder in the server closet found a new box to tick... and so ticked it.
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I was expecting a comment from " jon iplayer host" ,he seems to have thrown his hand in after the initial posts,even though reading his comments on other threads he is in contact with the BBC techies.
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I'd also like to state that I am unhappy with the changes t
A couple of weeks ago I moved to Cornwall from London and had been using iPlayer on XBMC to catch up on the TV we missed during the moving period where we were waiting to get our services back up and running.
Please change things back to the way they were.This is a reply to this message.
I'm another dissappointed ex-xbmc iplayer user... why have we been shut out of iplayer?
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