Suggestionspermalink

Service Updates

This discussion has been closed.

  • Message 1. Posted by Nathan G (U14126616) on Friday, 4th September 2009 permalink

    When something is broken update the server updates to acknowledge it is broken.

    At the moment the Wii doesn't work after the software update on the 1st...... it's now the 4th.

    complain

  • Message 2. Posted by nzh99 (U14126668) on Friday, 4th September 2009 permalink

    Seconded...

    ...and MONK for president smiley - winkeye

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 3. Posted by Nifta (U14126600) on Friday, 4th September 2009 permalink

    Sounds a rather sensible suggestion!

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 4. Posted by sock_puppet (U8651941) on Friday, 4th September 2009 permalink

    Sounds a rather sensible suggestion!


    It certainly does. So why are you here and not on the Nintendo sites. They performed the update, not the BBC.

    I must also comment on the fact that the content delivered by the BBC for Wii, iPhone and other mobile phone platforms is a beta system, non resilient and limited support. Which I read as not supported, unlike the PC and Cable iPlayer platforms which often (well maybe not that often) have comments from Jon, and content redelivered.

    So I would suggest you go over to Mr Nintendo and ask that he restore the capability to access iPlayer content. As he is the direct cause of this issue, not the BBC. The BBC stated long ago that it (the bbcredux system) wasn't a fully supported platform, more a technology demonstrator. I can no longer find the article that discussed it though....

    If the content is going to be delivered in the same way as the PC content is, and I haven't read any tech articles that generally announce that sort of thing before they launch, I wouldn't expect any announcements for it. There certainly isn't for the amount of iPhone stuff that doesn't work. So be prepared for nothing....

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 5. Posted by FoxyVet (U14127346) on Saturday, 5th September 2009 permalink

    I know the Wii is not a primary iplayer platform. However I am increasingly annoyed by all this "Beta" talk. Beta means OK we will release it but it might not work properly. I feel the beta sites release their technology when its not finished so we, the users iron out their problems. So we help to sort out iplayer then as more people use it it becomes a facility that people have to pay for! Hmm bit likw windows 7 and other software that no longer if free after testers have submitted their bugs.

    Stop calling this stuff beta either release it as a fully working system or don't! Please fix the Wii bug - I would think it is a simple one to fix and stop hiding around just calling it a BEta version!

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 6. Posted by EggOnAStilt (U7111730) on Saturday, 5th September 2009 permalink

    smiley - racket1

    Stop calling this stuff beta either release it as a fully working system or don't! Please fix the Wii bug - I would think it is a simple one to fix and stop hiding around just calling it a BEta version!
    smiley - racket2

    Think someone is missing the point.

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 7. Posted by Nifta (U14126600) on Saturday, 5th September 2009 permalink

    sock_puppet, I have also posted on the nintendo tech support forum.

    However, Nintendo/opera's browser is the platform, whilst the Bbc are the content provider. Surely the approach should be make the content compatible with the platform?

    I've seen no reference to the Wii iplayer being at Beta stage, so I'll just accept that you're correct there. However, isn't the purpose of a public beta to solicit end-user bug reports (and then fix them)?

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 8. Posted by sock_puppet (U8651941) on Saturday, 5th September 2009 permalink

    However, isn't the purpose of a public beta to solicit end-user bug reports (and then fix them)?

    Yes, I suppose it is. But this isn't about soliciting a bug fix for the BBC is it. They haven't broken anything, Nintendo have. So surely Nintendo should be issuing the bug fix. I haven't upgraded my Wii and it is still working, so it isn't something that's wrong at the BBC. How does the BBC fix something that isn't broke at its end?

    However, Nintendo/opera's browser is the platform, whilst the Bbc are the content provider. Surely the approach should be make the content compatible with the platform?

    Surely the approach should be to not make the content "incompatible" when upgrading the platform. That's why software companies have test teams...

    A task prior to deploying new software to ensure its backward compatible with current content and systems? Do you consider a change by the platform maker as a BBC bug? A rather strange way of seeing this. Nintendo/Opera seem to have made no attempt to make it work with the BBC's content which surely is the aim. But now its somehow the BBC's fault.

    My understanding is that this won't be fixed for quite some time as the platform that the BBC delivers content from for Wii, iPhone and mobiles is automated and not supported when things go wrong. The amount of stuff that fails to work on my iPod touch over the last 12 months is testament to that. The beta tag is because it isn't a fully fledged, supported product. Mainstream PC iPlayer is, so is the version on Virgin cable.

    I also consider it very poor form for Nintendo to respond as reported. But it is also poor form to always expect the BBC to jump into action like the National Guard from an American comic everytime something breaks. Just because it is publicly funded doesn't mean it has unlimited resources and an army of techs to jump into action whenever a technology company makes a (poorly thought through) update.

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 9. Posted by Nifta (U14126600) on Saturday, 5th September 2009 permalink


    Hey, if I hadn't upgraded my Internet Channel I'm sure that I could sit here being all smug too and pouring scorn onto us foolish early adopters too smiley - smiley

    But the promise of FlashLite3.1 brought dreams of 4oD, DemandFive and ITV-Player working on my Wii so I rushed into the update. I'm so careful about installing System Menu updates, so why I rushed into this I don't know. Dangnabbit smiley - sadface

    My spidey-sense does tell me it is a fault on the iPlayer's side though rather than in Opera. Of course I don't know the details but, from the fact that other previously-working video sites continue to work, it smacks of a hard-coded assumption in the Wii iPlayer's code that all Wii's can only make use of the Flash7 pathway and gets a bit confused as a result.

    I'll sit here and be patient though. Grr.. Grumble. If only there was an option in the Wii Shopping Channel to downgrade to the previous version of the Internet Channel. I'm sure they did that with the Photo Channel for a while.... Grumble.

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 10. Posted by sock_puppet (U8651941) on Saturday, 5th September 2009 permalink

    Another thread - www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb... has a good point about the upgrade and its compatibility with Flash7 content.

    It appears to be a stalemate. Nintendo upgrades its software making it incompatible with Flash7 and the BBC's automated "set and forget" Flash 7 encoding system for Wii isn't likely to have any changes made to it. Luckily you can now get 4oD, DemandFive and ITV-Player on it. If only you could change the User Agent string on the Wii and get the more reliable Flash 9 content that the PC iplayer gets. Or maybe that's what the Beeb have planned...

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 11. Posted by Nifta (U14126600) on Sunday, 6th September 2009 permalink

    Well, the iPlayer's been working on my Wii intermittently this morning. Looks like it could be up and running on the new Internet Channel soon as previously it was a 100% failure.

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 12. Posted by weeman_com (U14123429) on Sunday, 6th September 2009 permalink

    @ sock_puppet

    "So I would suggest you go over to Mr Nintendo and ask that he restore the capability to access iPlayer content. As he is the direct cause of this issue, not the BBC."

    Sorry but you are completely wrong, the fact is that the BBC specifically coded a special iPlayer optimized for the old Wii browser using flash 7. Since Nintendo upgraded the flash player to flash lite 3.1 this is causing incompatibilities with the optimized site, so it is upto the BBC to reconfigure this and make it compatible with Flash Lite 3.1
    Nintendo haven't blocked the iPlayer, they haven't removed compatibility, it was the design by the BBC that has done this.

    I might also contend that the iPlayer is no longer a Beta platform, there is no notification on it anywhere on the bbc iplayer website of information pages. It is only the "desktop downloader" that is in beta function.

    How do you suggest that Nintendo make the iPlayer compatible? re-upgrade the player with 2 versions of flash installed, thats just stupid.

    4oD, DemandFive and ITV-Player do not work on wii as they require Flash 10

    Upgrading to Flash lite 3.1 did not make the Wii incompatible with Flash 7, flash 7 content can by all rights be viewed with Flash Lite 3.1, the error occurs as the optimized website is confusing itself.
    1) it detects that its a Wii accessing the service
    2) Flash Lite 3.1 broadcasts itself as Flash 9
    3) the BBC transfer's to the optimized iPlayer
    4) the iPlayer tries to transmit the higher quality PC stream **noticeable by the reload of the player through trying to load and the appearance of the "subtitle" button which should not be available on Wii**

    This is all on the BBC's end that it needs to be fixed.
    A commenter in the other thread within the TV section has contacted Adobe and got a reply stating that it is an error on the BBC's end and should be a half hour job to reconfigure.

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 13. Posted by sock_puppet (U8651941) on Sunday, 6th September 2009 permalink

    @weeman_com

    Sorry but you are completely wrong, the fact is that the BBC specifically coded a special iPlayer optimized for the old Wii browser using flash 7. Since Nintendo upgraded the flash player to flash lite 3.1 this is causing incompatibilities with the optimized site, so it is upto the BBC to reconfigure this and make it compatible with Flash Lite 3.1


    So it seems I'm not completely wrong...."flash lite 3.1 is causing incompatibilities...." Did the BBC force this update? Did the BBC perform any update to its system to specifically stop it working? No they didn't. Nintendo DID change something and IT stopped iPlayer working. Therefore the DIRECT cause IS Nintendo!

    Upgrading to Flash lite 3.1 did not make the Wii incompatible with Flash 7, flash 7 content can by all rights be viewed with Flash Lite 3.1, the error occurs as the optimized website is confusing itself.
    1) it detects that its a Wii accessing the service
    2) Flash Lite 3.1 broadcasts itself as Flash 9


    So if flash lite 3.1 is compatible with flash 7, but advertises itself as flash 9, then this excludes everything less than 9. This would seem to effectively be saying that it isn't compatible with flash 7.

    Surely Nintendo could have been smarter in its implementation of the update, especially if 3.1 is capable of wider flash support. Which is something that Nintendo can do.

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 14. Posted by weeman_com (U14123429) on Sunday, 6th September 2009 permalink

    I can see now your simply not going to get the point, so from now on im just not going to bother with you.

    Try to understand it IS the BBC's error to solve, no matter what, the BBC have to rectify this. Nintendo may have caused by updating to a better Flash client, but due to the way the BBC have coded the iPlayer for wii, when it was upgraded to any thing it was going to cause an error and a stoppage of service.

    "So if flash lite 3.1 is compatible with flash 7, but advertises itself as flash 9, then this excludes everything less than 9. This would seem to effectively be saying that it isn't compatible with flash 7."

    That quote there is basically moronic, if you knew anything, ANY update to flash is backwards compatible. My point about it broadcasting itself as flash 9 is that it is confusing the iPlayer client as to which stream to broadcast.

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 15. Posted by sock_puppet (U8651941) on Sunday, 6th September 2009 permalink

    I can see now your simply not going to get the point, so from now on im just not going to bother with you.

    I simply made a statement and you said that it was wrong. It wasn't, and your argument to try and prove that it was wrong only justified what I was saying.

    Try to understand it IS the BBC's error to solve
    It is not the BBC's error - I believe its Nintendo's to fix because they implemented a change that caused a popular service on their platform to stop working and is lacking that backwards compatibility that you're advocating it has. You believe its the BBC's to fix. I personally don't subscribe to the "everything is the BBC's fault" mentality that is prevalent on the BBC's message boards.

    ...if you knew anything, ANY update to flash is backwards compatible
    ...unless, of course, it doesn't work with a backward version, like flash 7, which the BBC are still offering. And is still working on my Wii, one that hasn't been updated. So much for backward compatibility then, eh!

    Being backwards compatible would mean it can recognise when Flash 7 needs/wants to be served and respond accordingly. It is therefore not compatible or it would play. It is as simple as that, and the responsibility of it being like that lies squarely at the feet of Nintendo. When the backwards compatible flash lite 3.1 advertises itself as Flash 9 it cannot possibly be "confusing the iPlayer", it is simply rejecting it. Rectifying this rejection mechanism would restore iplayer using its flash 7 content.

    4) the iPlayer tries to transmit the higher quality PC stream **noticeable by the reload of the player through trying to load and the appearance of the "subtitle" button which should not be available on Wii**

    This quote above and details from other Wii posts tells me that the other flash 9 content from the BBC isn't compatible with the Wii and would need an encoder profile change to work properly. So it isn't a simple change to do by the BBC. Changes like this need to go through proper process, not like simple user agent updates that occur when a new Nokia or iPhone software update occurs.

    The type of update that Nintendo have done doesn't just change the goalposts, it changes the whole ballpark. This is why I say that Nintendo need to do some work with the level of actual compatibility of the Wii, not the Adobe advertised compatibility. This would ultimately involve a roll back until the BBC is ready with new content.

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 16. Posted by John99 (U13871221) on Sunday, 6th September 2009 permalink

    As a spectator lurking in this thread I wonder if anyone would like to summarise the points that can be agreed upon; maybe like:

    - what is broadcast and
    - what is compatible or backwards compatible and
    - what changes would be required either to the bbc system of iPlayer or the receiving system

    (other than the ability to regress back to the old system that continues to work & be compatible with BBC iPlayer, as far as I understand - and would presumably solve problems at a stroke - bur it appears not an option offered)

    John

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 17. Posted by John99 (U13871221) on Monday, 7th September 2009 permalink

    The bbc has produced a faq /rss. They have not yet put anything on or visible from the Services Updates section, although someone else did post a thread there.
    Faq says they are working on it

    "We are currently investigating and hope to resolve the issues with the BBC iPlayer website. Later this year we will be launching all-new BBC iPlayer designed specifically for the Wii. " ( iplayerhelp.external... )

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 18. Posted by Ash (U14178587) on Sunday, 18th October 2009 permalink

    Come on bbc. Youve git thousands of communication people. Please communicate and let us kbow when you will fix this mess of your own making. Remember you are a tax funded organisations.

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 19. Posted by Nathan G (U14126616) on Thursday, 5th November 2009 permalink

    It is a real shame the BBC don't have the decency to bother replying.


    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 20. Posted by Did_I_Say_That (U14172075) on Thursday, 5th November 2009 permalink

    Its a bigger shame that you haven't bothered to find out if they have.

    www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...

    The above thread has been rather prominent over the last few days. Doesn't take too much effort to scroll through the names of the recent or active threads to gauge what is topical.

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

BBC © 2014 The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.

This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.