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BBC POLICY ON DOWNLOADING RADIO PLAYS

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  • Message 1. Posted by NoelNoel (U14430578) on Tuesday, 20th April 2010 permalink

    Having missed some of the early plays in the Complete LeCarre season on Radio 4, I was thrilled to find that there is now the option of downloading the entire series... thank you very much, BBC! If the licence fee was abolished, no independent station would ever give us what you do, both on air and on the web.
    However, I seem to have a problem.
    using the latest iPlayer Desktop on the latest Firefox browser (v.3.6.3) on Windows XP Pro, I only have the option of listening to these plays, not of downloading them to listen to at my convenience. 8 or 10 hours is a lot of time to devote at one sitting -- not possible. I have to download, and I am running out of time before the series will disapepar from the iPlayer again.
    Does the BBC have a policy of not allowing radio programmes to be saved?

    complain

  • Message 2. Posted by matt (U8621220) on Tuesday, 20th April 2010 permalink

    Hi,
    Radio programmes are not available to download. Some programmes are available as podcasts though and can be downloaded.

    complain

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  • Message 3. Posted by Researcher 2340387 (U2340387) on Tuesday, 20th April 2010 permalink

    This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the House Rules in some way.

    complain

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  • Message 4. Posted by Gumrat (U2340387) on Tuesday, 20th April 2010 permalink

    I tried to remove the message myself, but there is apparently no means to edit one's messages after they've been posted.

    complain

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  • Message 5. Posted by matt (U8621220) on Tuesday, 20th April 2010 permalink

    Hi Gumrat,
    There is no option to edit or delete your own posts. Possibly that's because it would cause moderation problems.

    Only the moderators can edit/remove messages.

    complain

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  • Message 6. Posted by andrew (U14431582) on Wednesday, 21st April 2010 permalink

    hi i was hoping for the same ... i work til 7pm and what i want is on at 6pm repeat midnight but a sleep by then ... to download would make it a lot better ... as we pay for the licence fee (that keeps going up) its just a little thing we are asking for ....

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  • Message 7. Posted by John99 (U13871221) on Wednesday, 21st April 2010 permalink

    Hi Andrew,

    What are the programmes you are interested in.

    Are they available as Listen Again ?

    John

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  • Message 8. Posted by NoelNoel (U14430578) on Wednesday, 21st April 2010 permalink

    In what way does my very simple and straightforward message break the House Rules?
    can a BBC moderator please explain if this is true, if the message has been hidden, and how it breaks the rules?

    complain

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  • Message 9. Posted by matt (U8621220) on Wednesday, 21st April 2010 permalink

    If you mean message 3 in this thread, the hidden message was not posted by you.

    Only the message that broke the rules has been hidden. The rest of the thread is still visible.

    complain

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  • Message 10. Posted by Gumrat (U2340387) on Wednesday, 21st April 2010 permalink

    It was my reply to you which broke the rules (by pointing you to somewhere other than a BBC site which would have solved your problem) and I was informed politely by the BBC moderators what they were doing/had done - first they removed the direct link and then the whole post because I had anticipated their removing the link and said what to search for in your browser.
    Sorry I'm not allowed to help - I can't think of a way of doing so without breaking the rules, I'm afraid.

    complain

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  • Message 11. Posted by NoelNoel (U14430578) on Tuesday, 27th April 2010 permalink

    Dear Gumrat,
    thanks very much for trying to help. however, I would not illegally download anything... I am a writer and publisher myself (ex-BBC World Service, among other places) and I can't believe that people don't see illegal downloads as stealing from creative artists, many of whom really don't make much money.
    My own kids used to do it -- as they were adults I couldn't stop them, but I gave them some good lectures -- but I just can't understand how one can steal from someone whose work you love, which is what illegal downloads do... it's copyright theft from the people you admire.
    the world will go up in flames one day because people will be accustomed to getting stuff of value for nothing, and that is not permanently sustainable... sooner or later, the free lunch will run out.
    Given all of that, I don't see why we should not be able to legally save radio for our personal use when video is available on that basis. Then nobody would have to illegally download it. It is all paid for by the same licence fee, after all.
    MODERATOR... could you please explain why the BBC exercises a double standard on this by treating radio and TV differently? What is the thinking behind it? It doesn't seem to make sense.

    complain

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  • Message 12. Posted by matt (U8621220) on Tuesday, 27th April 2010 permalink

    Hi NoelNoel,
    My guess on the lack of downloads for radio is music rights. The rights that the BBC have for music probably limit them to making programmes stream only. The radio catch up system was available long before iPlayer so the BBC obviously have the rights to make music available for catchup but radio with music in it has never been downloadable.

    complain

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  • Message 13. Posted by NoelNoel (U14430578) on Wednesday, 28th April 2010 permalink

    It would however be nice to get a full official explanation of this from the BBC itself.
    I also find it very confusing to know who is a moderator and who isn't... are you a moderator, Matt? if you are, can we have more than your "guess".
    if you aren't, why can't we have an official reply to a legitimate question on this subject?

    complain

    This is a reply to this message.

  • Message 14. Posted by John99 (U13871221) on Wednesday, 28th April 2010 permalink

    Noel

    I think Matt is just another ordinary user like you & myself.

    Moderators are employed and on this board posts are normally only reactively moderated, eg when another user complains the post or part of it is hidden. Mods have even hit the BBCs own posts !

    There is occasional input from board hosts and other BBC staff, most of whom will have a name shown as emphasised, and sometimes with additional information showing from mousover the obvious examples being Jon www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb... & Alan www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...

    I think you question may well have been asked and possibly answered many times, & may also have related faqs.

    See also thread: "Why cannot BBC staff reply?" www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...

    & faqs: "Can I download radio programmes to listen to later? " iplayerhelp.external...
    & search for others: iplayerhelp.external...

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  • Message 15. Posted by Gumrat (U2340387) on Wednesday, 28th April 2010 permalink

    I find it strange that some radio programmes are available for podcast and therefore downloadable, like TV progs, whereas others are not, for no discernible reason. Maybe it depends on the production company? Though that would apply to TV rights as well, wouldn't it?

    Noel, both my parents had long careers at the BBC (French Section) and I myself have done my time at Bush House during summer vacs. I am v fond of the BBC. As someone who listens from abroad, I would willingly pay a subscription fee to be able to hear BBC radio. I find the rules about the iplayer strange, since I am able to listen to BBC on demand on my internet radios, as well as being able to download many BBC radio programmes to my ipod. As my daughter would say, random smiley - smiley

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  • Message 16. Posted by matt (U8621220) on Wednesday, 28th April 2010 permalink

    Hi Noel,
    I am a standard user. Most of the time you will only get replies from other users on these boards.

    I don't think I've ever seen a reply posted by a moderator. Memebers of the team do occasionally post and their names are in bold italics.

    @Gumrat
    I believe to make a radio programme downloadable the BBC would need to get the rights for every song played on each show which would just be an impossible task.

    Programmes like the Archers are available as podcasts probably because they are radio plays and don't have music rights issues.

    complain

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  • Message 17. Posted by Gumrat (U2340387) on Wednesday, 28th April 2010 permalink

    Hi, Matt!
    I understand what you're talking about, re music rights, but I don't listen to many of the BBC's music programmes (apart from Wogan!), just to Radios 4 & 7, for the spoken word only. Although after a long time of saying they couldn't because of rights for the music played, BBC Radio 4 now allows podcasts and "listen again" even for Desert Island Discs! As I said earlier, random!

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  • Message 18. Posted by John99 (U13871221) on Wednesday, 28th April 2010 permalink

    HI Anne,
    Maybe not totally random smiley - winkeye

    I find it strange that some radio programmes are available for podcast and therefore downloadable

    Maybe the programmes as podcasts are ones without sport and music in them, and probably either produced by the BBC or under a tight contract for the BBC where such rights for podcast/downloading are given to the BBC.

    that would apply to TV rights as well, wouldn't it?

    Yes. Note of course the Radio/Podcast material will be made available worldwide.TV on the other hand (other than say newsclips and trailers) is only streamed or broadcast within the UK, and then the material downloaded is only allowed to be watched for a limited time, so unlike the podcasts the material may not be retained / used permanently.

    Some TV material such as some sports progs are not available for streaming or downloading, and some TV material (I think the series 'Damages' is a recent example) are allowed to be streamed but not downloaded.

    I find the rules about the iplayer strange, since I am able to listen to BBC on demand on my internet radios,

    Assuming BBC iPlayer Radio is working as intended I imagine the same Audio On Demand [AOD} radio will be available to computer users as Internet Radio users. But this will not normally be saved.
    (as an aside
    Some Internet Radios may be able to record AOD, although most probably do not, but of course 60s technology or other means can also record whatever output the loudspeaker gets)

    [ I am assuming long running problems with AOD windows streams now resolved
    - but overseas users will now need a Windows type computer for AOD
    - Windows DRM will not -- or is not intended to -- enable saving of AOD]

    So only a small proportion of Radio output is intended to be saved, and (almost) all TV output is intended to be merely timeshifted.

    John

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  • Message 19. Posted by John99 (U13871221) on Wednesday, 28th April 2010 permalink

    Although after a long time of saying they couldn't because of rights for the music played, BBC Radio 4 now allows podcasts and "listen again" even for Desert Island Discs! As I said earlier, random!


    I can understand it being allowed as listen again, but had not noticed Desert Island Disks was now included as podcasts, until I read your post.

    Maybe they now have to restrict or sometimes edit what subjects are allowed to choose as their 'disks'. Maybe it is also easier to obtain rights as many 'disks' will be older music, rights owners may actually see the DID prog as good advertising!

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