WW2 People's War  permalink

Argyll and sutherland highlanders.

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Messages: 1 - 15 of 15
  • Message 1. 

    Posted by Grumpywarnock (U6495597) on Saturday, 4th November 2006

    Hello all
    Iam new to all this. Iam trying to find out a little bit about my dads army service during ww2.His name was Andrew Warnock.He was born in Ayr. If theres any one out there who could help, get back in touch.
    Many Thanks

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  • Message 2

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper (U519668) on Saturday, 4th November 2006

    Well then Grumpy -
    There are a few things you need to tell us about your Dad -
    What battalion of the A&SH was he in - what was his service number - when did he join - where did he serve - African Desert - North Africa - Sicily - Italy - NW Europe or Burma - do you have any record of his pay book etc ???Medals ???
    Many of these items would help as there were many Battalions all over the place and we have to start - somewhere ! OK ?

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  • Message 3

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Grumpywarnock (U6495597) on Sunday, 5th November 2006

    All I new was that he entered europe through Belgium and left the port of Kiel, to come back home.

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  • Message 4

    , in reply to message 3.

    Posted by ritsonvaljos (U1268437) on Sunday, 5th November 2006

    Hello Grumpywarnock,

    Have you tried contacting the Regimental Museum for the A & S Highlanders? They have a website:

    www.army.mod.uk/argy...

    However, from personal experience of trying to trace the Service records of relatives I suspect you will need to give them some more detailed information than what you have at present. I feel it is going to be very difficult for you to make much progress without a Service number.

    As it happens, I have looked up service details for a couple of fellows who served with the A & S Highlanders. But these two fellows served in WW1, they both won the MM and I found newspaper articles about them. In some respects it can be easier looking up WW1 service details provided you can somehow find the service number for the right fellow.

    For WW2 if you can get your father's service number you should be able to write for his Service Record. From the little information you provide it sounds to me like your Dad may have served in NW Europe at the latter end of the war after much of Belgium was liberated in the autumn of 1944. Many of those troops went through Northern Germany to the Baltic coast. To know for definite if you managed to get your Dad's Service record it will give the correct details rather than just guessing.

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  • Message 5

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by Grumpywarnock (U6495597) on Monday, 6th November 2006

    Many Thanks for your help. Its much appreicated, It seems Ive got a bit of work in front of me.
    Many Thanks again.

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  • Message 6

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper (U519668) on Tuesday, 7th November 2006

    Now then Grumpy -
    don't give up as we are just starting this journey of discovery and there is alot to do -
    first off - you say your Father joined the A & SH in Belgium later in '44 -
    My best guess would be that this was the 2nd Battalion which was in the 227 brigade along with the 10th H.L.I. and the 2nd Gordons,which was in the 15th Scottish Div - as opposed to the 7th batt. which was in the 51st Highland Div.which didn't perfrom as well as they did both in the desert and Sicily
    The 15th Scottish landed on the beaches of D day on the 14th June and quickly joined the V11 corps commanded by Gen O'Connor who had been a POW in Italy, since he had been captured by Rommel shortly after O'Connors famous victory at Beda Fomm when the 10th Italian Army was wiped out, this was Graziani's Army.- until freed by the Italian surrender in september '43.
    V11 corps and the 15th Scottish were involved in operations Epsom - Goodwood - Bluecoat - Odon and Caen. Then on to Nedjerrinn and finally the Rhine crossing finishing their war on the River Elbe on the Baltic with XXX corps.
    Now what you will have to do is to get hold of the Museum at Stirling Castle for his service number - then apply to Glasgow for his service record and this will give you all the detail you need to see what he was up to during that phase of his life.
    Incidently the original 2nd batt was lost at Singpore in Dec '41 and the 15th battalion was then -in June '42- reconstituted as the new 2nd battalion.
    Good luck.

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  • Message 7

    , in reply to message 6.

    Posted by Heinzjohannsen (U2135010) on Tuesday, 7th November 2006

    Hi , if the person ended up at Kiel, I would love to hear more about the unit, as Im recercing time of occupation in the Kiel area.or Schleswig Holstein alltogether. thanks heinz Johannsen

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  • Message 8

    , in reply to message 7.

    Posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper (U519668) on Tuesday, 7th November 2006

    Heinz -
    the 15th Scottish Division did indeed finish the war around the Elbe region and there have been some books written on their history - perhaps if you were to "Google" the '15th Scottish Division' you will note the books which will give you lots of material for your study
    Good luck

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  • Message 9

    , in reply to message 8.

    Posted by dougstratton (U6564503) on Friday, 10th November 2006

    One of my ancestors won the Military Cross and Croix De Guerre at Passchendaele (I believe) with the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders. His name was George Fielden Macleod, later Lord Macleod of Fuinary.

    If anyone has any information about this soldier's war record, and how he won these medals, I'd be most grateful. There is a lot about him on the internet, but mostly about his life after the Great War, when he founded the religious community on Iona. This is also interesting but not what I am looking for!

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  • Message 10

    , in reply to message 9.

    Posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper (U519668) on Saturday, 11th November 2006

    Dear Doug Stratton
    Your query is interesting as I once visited Iona to venerate the first Community builder -the Catholic St. Columba in the 560's - only to find that the whole area has been given over to the Protestant sects of The Church of Scotland and Methodism, who appeared to claim that Iona was founded by the Rev George MacLeod during 1938,in his search for peace - which would have been foreign to St Columbia who was indeed a warrior Saint as his tussles will testify.
    Unfortunately I know very little of the happenings of WW1 as I am trying to concentrate
    on finding some answer for Grumphy Warnock's
    relative's service in WW2.
    Sorry - can't help you !
    Good luck

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  • Message 11

    , in reply to message 10.

    Posted by ritsonvaljos (U1268437) on Saturday, 11th November 2006

    To Doug Stratton,

    As Tom mentions this Messageboard is really about WW2 rather than WW1. However, I think you should be able to find the award of the Military Cross by searching the London Gazette online. This should give you at least a date and you can then probably find the citation if nothing else.

    I started tracing details of two fellows who served with the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders in WW1 by finding their medal awards in the London Gazette (both of them won the MM). I was then able to find articles in the local press about them during WW1, which I consulted in the Local Archives. Perhaps you could do the same?

    The two I looked up were referred to in some of the stories I posted to the WW2 "People's War". They had served together and had been plas in WW1 and by a strange coincidence they died tragically in WW2 within days of each other. However, this also meant there was again further information in the local press during WW2 about their WW1 records. Much of what I found in the Archives I never actually posted to the "People's War" accounts because a lot of it was about WW1.

    I'm sure you can follow a similar trail once you find the key dates of when to look up. Good luck.

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  • Message 12

    , in reply to message 11.

    Posted by dougstratton (U6564503) on Sunday, 12th November 2006

    Thanks amigos. Apologies for straying off-topic.

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  • Message 13

    , in reply to message 6.

    Posted by Grumpywarnock (U6495597) on Friday, 17th November 2006

    Sorry Ive just got back to you.Many thanks for the encouragement, and your help.

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  • Message 14

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Eain_muir (U7132975) on Monday, 15th January 2007

    Hi,
    The A&SH 2nd battalion saw service through N.W.Europe with the 15th Scottish Div, as mentioned by a previous mailer.My Father was in the 6th Guards Tank Brigade which more often than not were attached to the A&SH and the 227 brigade as armoured support.
    Your Father would have been in action at the Battle of the Reichswald forest; the start point was near Groesbeek/Berg-An-Dal (The Dutch Alps)near Nijmegen, from here,The A&SH fought with the 6th Guards Tank Brigade through a flooded terrain, taking the towns of Kranenberg,Nutterden then onto to Cleve...which the R.A.F had bombed the previous day with much destruction.
    Following this, he would have fought through Moyland/Moyland Forest then probably on to Kalkar...this was clearing the West bank of the Rhine, for an assualt crossing on March 24th near Xanten to establish a bridgehead East of the Rhine....I believe your Fathers unit would have been one of the first British units to cross the river.
    I am at work whilst writing this,so my recall of details is patchy; I will mail again later, giving details of a book written about the 15th Scottish Div, which would give more details on the A&SH.
    My Father is also an Ayrshire lad (Kilwinning), signing up in 1941 at Ayr.
    If you could pass on your address, I will forward some material which might enlighten you further, also, I am doing a little bit of research on The 6th Guards unit at the Public Records Office at Kew,London; whilst there, I could look up the A&SH war diaries and get a fuller picture for you if you so wish.
    Regards and good luck,
    Eain.
    p.s What was his service number ?

    Report message14

  • Message 15

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by boabbie (U6156662) on Tuesday, 14th August 2007

    Report message15

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