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You are here > Five Live message boards > Deleted > Pondering the none existence of Discovery

Discussion:

Pondering the none existence of Discovery

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Message 1 - posted by LOWCADENCE (U1564301) , Jul 16, 2005

What happened to Armstrongs backup today?? Real weakness or unfeasable tactics??
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Message 2 - posted by Chilean_Llama (U1647784) , Jul 16, 2005

Lets not start the conspiracy theory again from last saturday!!!

Pure and simple they had another bad day. Tired, too much pace for them I'm not certain, but it wasn't a tactical ploy.

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Message 3 - posted by LOWCADENCE (U1564301) , Jul 16, 2005

Damn....I was hoping for someone to start that again!!

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Message 4 - posted by naspa (U1648370) , Jul 16, 2005

You need to wait for Armstrong's groupies to turn up... then they'll reveal all about what a tactic genius Disc is.

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Message 5 - posted by Chilean_Llama (U1647784) , Jul 16, 2005

Well I'm still waiting for answers from last weeks debate as to why, so I could just cut n paste em here if anyone takes up your challenge ;)

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Message 6 - posted by saffaroni (U1704673) , Jul 16, 2005

they were tired. i was tired just watching. if you think that was a ploy by dc, i've got a bridge across the east river that i'd give you a fair price on...

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Message 7 - posted by LOWCADENCE (U1564301) , Jul 16, 2005

Tiredness was undoubtedly the culprit but I hope they get their act together for Mr Armstrong tomorrow...Even he won't be able to defend attacks all day over those hills!!

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Message 8 - posted by Chilean_Llama (U1647784) , Jul 16, 2005

I hope they don't get their act together.

It is much more interesting to see the heavy weights fight it out between them, than to see it dominated by a team procession and then launch a 5-10km attack for their leader.

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Message 9 - posted by Yves-Frenchman (U1710092) , Jul 16, 2005

Beltran is gone. Therefore the remaining guys have to rotate in front of the pack to pace the race more frequently. A rotation of 8 is reduced to 7. This increase rotational frequency translates into increase energy expenditure per rider, which leads to cracking early.

But to satisfy Lance's Amen corner, this was ordained by Bruyneel. They were told to take a day off.

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Message 10 - posted by LOWCADENCE (U1564301) , Jul 16, 2005

True..I just think that the stage may be a bit severe for that. If all the heavyweights are in the same boat (ie on their own, without team backup) then it would be amazing to watch..

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Message 11 - posted by naspa (U1648370) , Jul 16, 2005

Tomorrow will be interesting for certain.

I feel though that even if T-Mob and CSC attack they will have left it too late.

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Message 12 - posted by Yves-Frenchman (U1710092) , Jul 16, 2005

MJM,

Stranger things have happened in the tour. Let us hope for what we call in French "barroux d'honneur" tomorrow. There is no longer any point in any of the contenders just riding alongside Lance and his team. Tomorrow should be attack attack attack...

Anyone got Godefroot mobile phone number?

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Message 13 - posted by naspa (U1648370) , Jul 16, 2005

Yves.

I remember when Mig cracked. It was very sudden, Riis attacked and Mig went to respond and nothing.

So I agree there is nothing to stop it happening tomorrow but I do feel that they must not wait until the final climb of the final mountain before making their move.

I hope that Vino is getting the bollocking of his life at the moment and that tomorrow he will ride as he should for Ullrich. Ullrich might not be the right man but for now he is the best placed rider.

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Message 14 - posted by Chilean_Llama (U1647784) , Jul 16, 2005

The big difference when Indurain went was that he didn't have it in him at all for the mountains that year.

It wasn't that he was good one day, and cracked the next.

Not saying it won't happen, but the comparison is slightly different and I don't think we'll see an Indurain type fall from grace now.

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Message 15 - posted by Yves-Frenchman (U1710092) , Jul 16, 2005

MJM,

Basso has to be part of the equation as well. If basso and Jan attack early, Lance has to respond immediately. Ideally, Rasmussen also should go for an "echapee" early as he could take the yellow if Lance does not personnaly respond. This will keep Lance going uptempo by himself very early. If he tires, then Basso or Jan could capitalize, with mutual benefit.

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Message 16 - posted by Berks_Stallion (U1688869) , Jul 16, 2005

I have been wrestling with this across many threads over the last week.

I do not see a way for anyone to beat Lance unless he has a bad day no matter what tactics.
You can guarantee if Lance is suffering then the others are suffering just as much if not more.

All credit to Ullrich and Basso today for having a go but this has been my argument all week.

If T-mobile attack they will isolate Lance from his team, (fairly easily evidently) but they will also destroy their own team. So Lance is left with the heavyweights and the three amigos from T-Mobile.

Lance has all the cards still though because he only has to defend and the other riders will also want to defend their GC position.

Whomever attacks will not only be chased down by Lance but he will get help from the other GC riders.

If anyone attacks too early tomorrow they will pay for it at the end and if they attack too late Armstrong will follow and probably counter attack.

However they have to attack otherwise they will be steamrollered by DSC on the final climb!

The way I see it is they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They should go out with nothing to lose and go for it but I fear they will still be looking at their GC position.

As for Vino, I agree with everyone about him today but most of you know my feelings about him anyway and he is proving me right!

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Message 17 - posted by pennsyrr (U1713490) , Jul 16, 2005

Yes, but all of his closest competitors are at least as tired. T-Mobile made a c ourageous effort today but I question how well coordinated it was. Why didn't Ulrich, Kloden and Vinocourof work together to give Ulrich a better chance?

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Message 18 - posted by amorto (U1679928) , Jul 17, 2005

If you listen to the comments of David Duffield and others on Eurosport, it seems the atmosphere at T-Mobile is not the best. Many riders have been to T-Mobile and struggled according to DD. Is their director Walter Goodefrot responsible for this?. I remember last year he was scathing in his critiscm of Ullrich - hardly the best way to get your team performing well. Discovery have fine riders such as Hincapie who never go chasing stage wins. They are totally devoted to helping Lance. Why is Vinokourov seemingly behaving like a one man team?. Most of Discovery will probably be dropped again today because they cannot live with the kind of pace Ullrich & Basso can create, but Armstrong as we know,can.

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Message 19 - posted by slapshot_3 (U1685569) , Jul 17, 2005

I've been thinking about the last two Saturdays and have come up with a few conclusions.

1. Last Saturday was a cunning plan to give the boys a break before the more difficlut Sunday stage (stop me if you see some similarity here).

2. Yesterday T Mob showed some of the mettle we thought they were capable of however when left the Disco boys sat up conserving ebergy for today, obvious plan but not the main one, purely a fall back. They were obviously stung by the T mob attack yesterday, too much too late. (what were they on when they chased down Vino at the start of the AX3 climb, guess Johan will give him his mobile number now)

3. I think it is immaterial anyway because LA is obviously SO MUCH STRONGER than Basso and Ullrich and everyone else. All he needs to do is tap away and stay with them, HE has been able to cover everything so far.

I think they will try to hit hard today but I would also suggest he'll send a rider up the road with any break that goes as a helper later. It'll be an interesting day, any extra motivation he might need is just on the back side of the Port D'Aspet

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Message 20 - posted by BigRing (U1704406) , Jul 17, 2005

What happened to Armstrongs backup today?? Real weakness or unfeasable tactics??

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The boss gave them the day off.

I imagine by the Col de Val-Louron Azet the tatics will be self evident. It is going to be a Pain Fest.

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