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You are here > Five Live message boards > Deleted > Rubens at BAR

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Rubens at BAR

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Message 1 - posted by Me (U1650116) , Aug 16, 2005

Sink or swim? Will he play second fiddle to Jenson (if he stays), or be a match? Does he have the ability to lead the team if Jenson goes?
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Message 2 - posted by safcfan89 (U1636318) , Aug 16, 2005

I think that if Jensen stays, BAR will do what F1 teams should do and let the drivers race each other. Obviously with Sato there that can't happen, and Button is faster anyway.

It should be an interesting battle, I don't know who is quicker, and it will show what Rubens is really made of. If he can't beat Button or do well at BAR, then his performances from 2000-2004 at Ferrari are down to the car.

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Message 3 - posted by Christine (U1650373) , Aug 16, 2005

Jensen will go and Rubens will be an equal number 1 driver with however replaces Sato

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Message 4 - posted by safcfan89 (U1636318) , Aug 16, 2005

Regarding Button, I think it is a bit much for him to want to leave one year and then wanting to stay the next year. I think that if he has a contract somewhere he should honour it. Williams could do well next year.

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Message 5 - posted by leesonmedhurst (U1872344) , Aug 16, 2005

RB will be a good match, and in my opinion a good test for JB. Age is not on Rubens side, but i think he may evolve as the stronger and better driver out of the pair if jenson stays next year - and i hope he does.

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Message 6 - posted by sundayf1 (U1845050) , Aug 16, 2005


Fry: "Rubens is not only an excellent driver but he has the experience of building a race and championship winning team and these skills are very important as we work to take BAR Honda to the next level".

Button has been driving for BAR for some time, and now thay want Rubens "to take BAR Honda to the next level".

I think they think Rubens has got the qualities to be a team leading driver. They are right, IMO, he must have learned a lot at Ferrari. It is obvious that they don't expect Rubens to be No 2. However, he will have to out race whoever will be his team mate to actually be No 1.

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Message 7 - posted by leesonmedhurst (U1872344) , Aug 16, 2005

Regarding Button, I think it is a bit much for him to want to leave one year and then wanting to stay the next year. I think that if he has a contract somewhere he should honour it. Williams could do well next year.

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Do you not think it is a little unfair to lay all the blame at JB's feet? Whilst I accept he must take some of the blame, most of it should be directed to his misguided management team and the advice he was given from them. Lets not forget that JB is only 24/ 25 years old, and 22/ 23 when all of these contract negotiations were being done. In addition to the fact he is a driver and not a lawyer - taking nothing away from his intelligence. As a result he has found himself in a difficult situation due to age and naivety.

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Message 8 - posted by eddie_squidd, prince of denmark (U1644674) , Aug 16, 2005

I think Button should go to Williams as he originally agreed. I think that if we are going to be treated to him trying to wriggle out of contract every year then everyone is quickly going to get tired of it.

If Button does go, who is likely to partner Barrichello? Not Sato surely? Do you think BAR will treat Barichello as their no 1 driver as he has all the experience and bring in another driver to make up the numbers?

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Message 9 - posted by safcfan89 (U1636318) , Aug 16, 2005

He was desperate to join Williams last year, so I think it is a bit bad that he has just had a change of heart. Age isn't an excuse, and if he said he wanted to join Williams then he shluld when he is made to. Simple as that. It's his own fault that he is in this situation.

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Message 10 - posted by vikki00 (U1688738) , Aug 16, 2005

Sink or swim? Will he play second fiddle to Jenson (if he stays), or be a match? Does he have the ability to lead the team if Jenson goes?

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obviously i think Rubens will be more than able to lead BAR if Jenson goes.but the team would be a lot stronger if Jenson somehow gets out of his contract with Frank!
if Jenson does stay i think it would be a fascinating battle.i think the over-hyping from the media sometimes means people overlook the fact he is a decent driver.but in my (biased!)opinion Rubens will be leading that team,though i would hope and expect that whoever his teammate is they will be allowed to battle it out!

as for jenson, i do have some sympathy for him - every driver wants the best circumstances to suceed - but then again no-one forced him to sign anything......... <erm>

i'm looking foward to next season already! <biggrin>
though there are a few races left before then - i suppose victory No 10 for Ferrari is a bit much to hope for? ;)

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Message 11 - posted by RickD34 (U1653791) , Aug 16, 2005

The fact that Williams aren't the same team he signed for (knowingly or not) should invalidate the contract surely?!

He was desperate to join Williams last year, so I think it is a bit bad that he has just had a change of heart. Age isn't an excuse, and if he said he wanted to join Williams then he shluld when he is made to. Simple as that. It's his own fault that he is in this situation.

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Message 12 - posted by Rob (U1679732) , Aug 16, 2005

Jensen will go and Rubens will be an equal number 1 driver with however replaces Sato

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Sato won't be replaced if Jenson goes. With Honda taking a majority stake in the team, they won't let a (reasonably) talented Japanese driver slip through the net.

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Message 13 - posted by Shysi (U1653683) , Aug 16, 2005

williams are the same team he signed with! Bmw where just a engine supplier (put simply) button should just shut and go to williams!

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Message 14 - posted by leesonmedhurst (U1872344) , Aug 16, 2005

williams are the same team he signed with! Bmw where just a engine supplier (put simply) button should just shut and go to williams!

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In Jensons defence he has said very little about the situation, to my knowledge the only thing he has said was a press release issued the Monday after the Hungarian GP weekend. And that was based on fact and in response to comments from Sir Frank. Most of the things we have heard are media speculation - which has made the whole situation seem much worse than it is.

In short albeit Williams is the same team, there are many factors that are not the same when the deal was struck. I am sure in JB's contract it stated a works team, this was one of the reasons he was going to leave BAR if we cast our minds back just over 12 months ago - when there was an issue with Honda. This issue alone, I am sure, will give credence to a void contract. However, it will be fought to the end and many thousands if not millions of pounds in compensation will be paid to Williams if he stays at BAR

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Message 15 - posted by AlesiFan (U1647845) , Aug 16, 2005


though there are a few races left before then - i suppose victory No 10 for Ferrari is a bit much to hope for? ;)

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Well,given Ferrri's current situation (TOO SLOW)
I reckon it would require pretty unusual circumstances.

But Spa,Interlagos,Suzuka - these tracks have all been known to provide such races.

And lets face it - if any season could do with some "unusual circumstances" it's this one! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Message 16 - posted by leesonmedhurst (U1872344) , Aug 16, 2005

He was desperate to join Williams last year, so I think it is a bit bad that he has just had a change of heart. Age isn't an excuse, and if he said he wanted to join Williams then he shluld when he is made to. Simple as that. It's his own fault that he is in this situation.

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Granted, I can understand your position. However, in all walks of life we want the best for ourselves, and whilst money is an important factor, it is not always the biggest driver. Lets imagine for one moment we all resigned our jobs tomorrow to pursue a better career. But then the new position changed slightly - took a turn for the worse and was not quite what you were hoping for. And you current employer wanted to keep you, vocally told you so and praised you daily. What would you do - I guarantee you would stay at the job you have now..

I say give the guy a break he is only doing what we would all do in his situation.

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Message 17 - posted by DoctorMax (U1723352) , Aug 16, 2005

Sorry to be controversial, but I cannot believe these suggestions that Barricello will play second fiddle to Button. There is an implied placing of Button on the same level as Michael Schumacher and he is years away from that, if he ever gets there at all (and I for one hope he does). Button has far more to prove, whereas Barricello, on the other hand, has shown an ability to live with Schumacher, most of the time only a carefully worded contract keeping them apart.

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Message 18 - posted by Dan Hoyes (U1855943) , Aug 16, 2005

Sorry, but none of these decisions are Button's doing. He sacked his previous management last year because he knew they were handling everything badly, but unfortunately just before they left they made a contract with Williams. Now Williams have lost there engine supply from BMW, and Cosworth are unlikely to be supplying anyone from 2007 onwards so it's obvious that Williams is not going to be the best choice.

If Button stays he'll be equal with Barrichello. If he goes, it'll be very close who they bring in. It'll depend on how well Sato from now on. Honda would prefer him, but now they are joint owners now, so to more of an extent would prefer the better driver. The BAR test team say that Davidson is twice as good at technical feedback than Sato, so if he does lose the race drive it's unlikely he'll have the test drive to fall back on.....

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Message 19 - posted by mac (U1648770) , Aug 16, 2005

Why are so many convinced that Sato is leaving. I think the real reason BAR have signed Rubens is that they know they are losing Button.

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Message 20 - posted by shane74 (U1689703) , Aug 16, 2005

JB signed a contract, regardless of whether he was 22 or 42 when he signed it. He has the privelege of a lot of top quality legal advisors etc to explain what a contract is. if you're 18 and you sign a contract - its binding. if he had'nt been the young english hopeful and had a name like Schuhmacher, would you be as lenient?
Regarding Button, I think it is a bit much for him to want to leave one year and then wanting to stay the next year. I think that if he has a contract somewhere he should honour it. Williams could do well next year.


Do you not think it is a little unfair to lay all the blame at JB's feet? Whilst I accept he must take some of the blame, most of it should be directed to his misguided management team and the advice he was given from them. Lets not forget that JB is only 24/ 25 years old, and 22/ 23 when all of these contract negotiations were being done. In addition to the fact he is a driver and not a lawyer - taking nothing away from his intelligence. As a result he has found himself in a difficult situation due to age and naivety.

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