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  • Message 1. 

    Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Welcome to the forum for the users of Jont & Achilles’ Script! First of all, the Script has moved to a new address:


    This is the place to post if you have been using the Script and want to share experiences, ideas for new features (sorry, Jont!) and tips on novel ways you've found to use current features that other people might not have thought of. This forum would be a way of increasing the knowledge of what the script can do and how its features can be adapted to suit individual preferences, through exchanges with both experienced script users and beginners and thereby make using the Script even more rewarding for its users.

    This is also the place to post if you are having minor problems or if you want to use the Script and would like help or if you are just terminally curious. An introduction to the Script, for beginners/newbies follows below.

    Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:31 GMT

    Report message1

  • Message 2

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:34 GMT, in reply to E. Yore (low I.Q. pedant) in message 1

    If you are new to the Script, a few Q.&A.s for you:

    What is the Script?

    The Script is a small user “application” (a user Javascript, technically) devised by two posters, studioj (jont) and Achilles Grytpype-Thynne to improve MB functionality. It runs in either Mozilla Firefox browser (recommended) or in Opera browser (more complicated, some functionalities lost) but not in other browsers (eg: Internet Explorer, Chrome etc).

    Why use the Script?

    The Script allows the user to “tweak” the way BBC mbs work, to their own specification: : for instance, the script allows the text to be as wide or as narrow as you prefer (by resizing the browser window) so for example, instead of having a narrow band of text going down the screen, with a vast mustard-yellow expanse at the right, the script can extend the text across the screen, making it easier to read longer texts and allowing more posts per page. Script users can enable date/time stamping of their posts, making it easier to know when someone posted. It also allows the user to format text, so that italics, underlining and bold are all available and visible to other script users. For more functionalities see below at ‘What can the Script do?’

    Will using the Script damage my computer/destroy my files/really peeve my oh/boss/children?

    No! For a start, to use the Script you must use either Firefox browser or Opera browser and and both are regarded by many as being better browsers than Internet Explorer. The Script does not affect, interfere with or have any control over anything EXCEPT how the BBC message board pages look to you. You might need administrator privileges to download the script (and Firefox or Opera if you don’t already have them) but truly, you are not allowing a host of nasties to invade your privacy. Look, I’m not an eeyore for nothing, being totally paranoid about computer safety and I’ve had no problems with the Script being installed on any of my computers. Even my Aged P has authorised the Script on his computers!

    How to Install the Script

    Go here to this site:


    and before you do anything, take the time to read the instructions carefully, as many of the queries you might have will be answered there. If you don’t have Mozilla Firefox & Greasemonkey or Opera, read the instructions carefully they will tell you what to do. If you get stuck, just post here and someone will be along to help you, but really, it is very easy to install and use.

    What does the Script do?

    If you go to the paragraph entitled ‘Script Features’ on the link to the script, you have a series of features you can enable in the Script. Click on any of the feature links and you’ll go to another page with a short description of the feature. deBogRoll is what allows the text to extend across the page"; formatter is what gives you /italics/ *bold* _underlining_ (script users will see each of those words with the formatting rather than the punctuation); pageTimeStamp is what gives you date, time and to whom you are replying. There are so very many wonderful things the Script can do, that I’d rather leave it to Script Users to explain their favourite bits.

    Report message2

  • Message 3

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by San Fairy Anne™ (U14092798) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:17 GMT, in reply to E. Yore (low I.Q. pedant) in message 2

    Good Morning Eyore, /what/ a good idea!

    I am bookmarking so I can come back easily. I find the 'unsubscribeomatic' in My Discussions available from The Script most valuable.
    Also Firefox is brill on my Mac, as Safari does not like Hotmail etc. SFAnne™

    Report message3

  • Message 4

    , in reply to message 3.

    Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:32 GMT, in reply to San Fairy Anne™ in message 3

    Morning, SFA! Jont's latest addition to the Script - the classify threads (alas unavailable to us Opera users so I've had to start using Firefox for that) - is great in conjunction with unsubscribeomatic. I like keeping my discussions list as clear as possible for various reasons and unsubscribe from virtually every conversation I am in. And there are threads I follow I don't post in but the new tool allows me via Firefox to have threads I am interested in marked as 'favourites' and they are at the top of the thread list page. I don't even have to log in for them to be sorted and at the top of my list. I can also relegate clubs I'll never join to my boring category and this way they don't keep bobbing up to the top of the page.

    I find it easier to manage the thread list page (ie front page of Bull or TVH) if the URL is set to "?skip=0&show=25" after the page address (eg. h t t p : // without the spaces).

    Another faster way of doing that is to go into config and at pageTimestamp, check all the boxes and alter the number in the line "use a value of 99 plus 99 for each whole hour etc." to 99. Then when you are on the front page of TB or TVH all you need to do is click on the greyish [Page displayed: 00:00 local time] at the top and the front page shows the first 99 threads.


    Report message4

  • Message 5

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by Mustafa Grumble (U8596785) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:49 GMT, in reply to E. Yore (low I.Q. pedant) in message 4

    I really appreciate the Script being available, particularly now it is possible to classify threads - thanks so much, Jont & Achilles.

    One request: it would be wonderful to have a facility where you could choose to automatically hide posts from particular posters so that when reading a thread there is either a blank where they would be (thread jumps from MSg 14 to Msg 16), alternatively so that the poster's name appears as usual, but the content of his/her message is a blank box.

    I think that would have a hugely beneficial impact on my blood pressure, and save me so much wasted time where I've composed hot-headed & irascible replies to ignorant & intemperate posts, only to think better of it and hit "cancel" at the last moment.

    Report message5

  • Message 6

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by Leaping Badger (U3587940) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Excellent, thanks so much for starting this thread, Eyore.

    Mustafa, I had the same thought as you a while ago, but after mulling it over came to the conclusion that it would be counter-productive, although I can't actually remember my reasoning for that conclusion. It would be rather like listening to one side of a telephone conversation. (Also, when I came back to a thread in the morning, there would be a huge slew of blank posts from the overnighters! Although that might not be such a bad thing, but they're easily ignored.)

    Report message6

  • Message 7

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Sat, 07 Nov 2009 11:15 GMT, in reply to E. Yore (low I.Q. pedant) in message 4

    Bother, I've already noticed one major mistake on my part:

    I find it easier to manage the thread list page (ie front page of Bull or TVH) if the URL is set to "?skip=0&show=25" after the page address (eg. h t t p : // without the spaces). 

    Should read "& show=200"

    Report message7

  • Message 8

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by Silver Jenny (U12795676) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Mustafa, when I have time I am going to come back and study the thread - thanks for starting it, E Yore [and of course Jont and Achilles for their great work].

    Just to pick up on blanking posters who raise the bp. The now defunct AOL mb's had that facility but it didn't really help imo because the answers to those posts appeared in succeeding threads, which was even more annoying.

    Report message8

  • Message 9

    , in reply to message 7.

    Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:17 GMT, in reply to E. Yore (low I.Q. pedant) in message 7

    Addendum to my tip, just learnt by trial and error: if you want to have both the URL set to 200 *and* have the classify threads visible, you need to add

    "?&show=200", otherwise you will only get a mayo of 200 without the classify threads.

    Report message9

  • Message 10

    , in reply to message 9.

    Posted by Angua - the vegetarian werewolf and Official Shoe Monitor (U3750755) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:35 GMT, in reply to E. Yore (low I.Q. pedant) in message 9

    I would like the 'ignore this poster' option - I find it works well for me on other boards..

    Report message10

  • Message 11

    , in reply to message 10.

    Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:45 GMT, in reply to Angua - the vegetarian werewolf in message 10

    I deal with posters I wish to avoid by using the poster ID to format the text: generally a bright pink background for bona fide posters with whom I've had a major run-in so with to tread carefully, bright red for posters known to be WUMs and a new combination of black and red for the Neo-nazis that seem to have invaded us recently. The bright colours alert me to either scroll quickly, or to read with gritted teeth, knowing I'll be wound up.

    Poster ID is useful, too, for those peeps who keep changing their names and if I've missed the post where they've done it, am totally confused as to why a new poster seems so hauntingly familiar.

    Report message11

  • Message 12

    , in reply to message 11.

    Posted by Angua - the vegetarian werewolf and Official Shoe Monitor (U3750755) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Sat, 07 Nov 2009 18:08 GMT, in reply to E. Yore (low I.Q. pedant) in message 11

    I use it too E Yore but still like the ignore option, it avoids the teething gritting..

    Report message12

  • Message 13

    , in reply to message 12.

    Posted by alanis (U2256129) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Sat, 07 Nov 2009 22:02 GMT, in reply to Angua - the vegetarian werewolf in message 12

    Just bookmarking here - as you can see my inexperience is showing - I do know I should be able to do this without actually posting, but I haven't actually tried it yet! Not quite sure how to go about it, though tbh I haven't really looked.

    What happens if I click on unsubscribomatic - does it unsubscribe everything, or is it one thread at a time?

    Report message13

  • Message 14

    , in reply to message 13.

    Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Sat, 07 Nov 2009 22:07 GMT, in reply to mauricette in message 13

    To subscribe to a thread without posting on it, just click the "Subscribe" button at the bottom right hand corner of the thread (once it's open).

    To unsubscribe from "My Discussions" simply check the boxes next to the threads from which you want to unsubscribe.

    Thanks for this tread, E. Yore, and Yay!!! Jont & Achilles. I love the new classification. I can only guess what "NFI" stands for, you norty boys.

    Report message14

  • Message 15

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by Angua - the vegetarian werewolf and Official Shoe Monitor (U3750755) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Sat, 07 Nov 2009 22:13 GMT, in reply to Redbookish in message 14

    NFI - fundamentally Red, what else?

    Report message15

  • Message 16

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by petal jam (U1466691) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Sat, 07 Nov 2009 22:15 GMT, in reply to Mustafa Grumble

    OOh Mustafa I know you said 'choice' but I'm sort of philosophically wriggling about the idea that a Script which is designed to enhance and enable connections should be equipped to censor. I know what you mean and why, but I'm uncomfortable about the implications for a medium in which there is already a more-or-less functioning moderation system.

    Apart from the borderline moddable or the undertone which is, if not outright insulting, then less than accepting of other posters, there are other issues for me. There are posters who have me muttering lots of times, but who just sometimes illuminate something from a completely different pov and for which I feel - well, grateful. Not to mention those whom I /might/ have blanked early on, but who bear re-reading and add richness to this community.

    Sorry this isn't a post about the function of the script as it stands. Censorship is another kettle of fish entirely, imo.

    Report message16

  • Message 17

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by alanis (U2256129) on Saturday, 7th November 2009

    Sat, 07 Nov 2009 22:17 GMT, in reply to Redbookish in message 14

    God, I feel such an eejit - of course!! thanks red. smiley - blush To subscribe to a thread without posting on it, just click the "Subscribe" button at the bottom right hand corner of the thread (once it's open). 

    Report message17

  • Message 18

    , in reply to message 16.

    Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Sunday, 8th November 2009

    Sun, 08 Nov 2009 08:16 GMT, in reply to petal jam in message 16

    Petal, I agree entirely.

    To return to the point of this thread, becoming an inclusive community using the Script, another feature I love is the ability to quote easily, by placing the cursor where one wishes to insert a quote, then going to the box below the 'compose' box which has the post one is replying to, selecting with the mouse the text one wishes to quote and then just pressing the insert quote userid box to the right. Bingo!

    Report message18

  • Message 19

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by studioj (U1600165) on Sunday, 8th November 2009

    Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:13 GMT, portmanteau reply to thread

    - E. Yore, thanks for starting this thread. I hope that it becomes a valuable resource for new and seasoned script users alike.

    - Mustafa, thank you for your suggestion. I have been asked for this facility before and I have resisted (not through disapproval but through laziness and because it seemed too difficult to do). I looked again at it yesterday (after seeing your post) and it /may/ be doable and might even make it into a subsequent release. Whether it actually gets used is another matter.. and if I find that it has adverse impact on the script's performance (which already slows thread-view rendering) then it might not make it into the (main) script.

    - Mauricette, of course, you would have known the answers to your questions had you read the help pages smiley - smiley

    - general, tips on giving tips:

    -- to avoid confusion, when posting tips etc, I would suggest the following:

    --- if you are posting a tip with instructions such as "do this, do that, put >>>this value<<< there" etc then take the time to actually try it out yourself - exactly as you have typed it in your post (and as it is displayed in the [Preview] page) - as if you were a new user or had completely different settings (indeed, to be sure, make your settings completely different and then follow your own instructions to set them the way you are describing)

    --- try to be really clear when specifying literal values in your post, it doesn't much matter how you do it just so long as it's obvious which bits of your post are >>>specific values<<< to be used (or instructions to be followed) and which bits are your own commentary

    --- do use the [Preview] facility to double check your post and take care to read it as it is written rather than how you think it is written (yes I know, this applies generally and is terribly difficult to do, but it's often more critical when giving technical - or step by step - advice)

    --- always check any links you may have provided in your post by actually clicking them in the [Preview] page and following them - remember you can open the link in a new tab or window so as not to lose your post

    ---- on this, make sure things that you want to appear as clickable-links actually /are/ clickable-links (and have the desired result) and conversely make sure that those things that you didn't actually want as clickable-links aren't (eg: when illustrating a URL/address etc)

    ----- if you want to illustrate a URL/Address without it being clickable then there are various ways to do that but my preferred way is to use uppercase for the "HTTP" eg:
    ------ the BBC servers (currently) only attempt to convert things into clickable links if the HTTP is all lowercase. I prefer this method as it leaves the URL/Address in a format which is still usable in the browser (eg: by copying it to the address bar or highlighting the address text and dragging it to the tab-bar (this latter method certainly works in Firefox))

    ---- remember also, things like and <~timestamp-will-go-here~> will likely disappear from your post unless suitably "corrupted"

    ----- Note that these things that normally automatically "disappear" do not do so until you actually submit your post and will still appear in your post when viewed in the [Preview] page, dammit

    -- if you know of a useful (and preferably well written) tip elsewhere on the boards, I see no reason why you couldn't just link to it here (eg: see for a brief description on how the query string is specified in a URL/Address) but this is probably best avoided if the post had to be followed up with corrections

    -- Remember, the above are just my suggestions, I do not wish to dictate how people post tips, I make these suggestions only 'cos I think they may be useful for this thread. Feel free to ignore at your leisure

    jont {;¬· >···{

    Report message19

  • Message 20

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Sunday, 8th November 2009

    Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:33 GMT, in reply to studioj in message 19

    Very many thanks, jont, for coming on here and for all the work you've done for us. Have a grolsch on me!

    Learn something new every day! I am cutting and pasting from the link you gave about understanding what the URL is made up of:

    A URL/URI is made up of a bunch of components:
    - protocol: eg: HTTP
    - domain: eg:
    - path [optional]
    - query string [optional]

    See: for a proper description.

    The query string, if present, is made up of one or more key=value pairs (eg: show=200).

    The start of the query string is indicated by the "?" and followed by the first key=value pair

    If there are more key=value pairs then they are separated using the "&" character.

    So, if your "&show=200" was the first thing after the path (and hence there was no "?") then the syntax is, strictly speaking incorrect, though servers generall accept it.

    So, use "?" for the first key=value pair, and "&" for subsequent ones. 

    I am not sure, however, what exactly you mean by

    put >>>this value<<< 

    Report message20

  • Message 21

    , in reply to message 20.

    Posted by studioj (U1600165) on Sunday, 8th November 2009

    Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:13 GMT, in reply to E. Yore (low I.Q. pedant) in message 20

    < put >>>this value<<< >

    Maybe the situation doesn't arise as much as I imagine it might (so, ignore me, do), but I have seen people posting advice (on the script and otherwise) where the commentary(*) in the post text is indistinguishable from express - step by step - instructions and literal values.. and I think to myself "Well, I if were a reader who was unfamiliar with the subject at hand and/or the terms in use then I mightn't have a clue what was what... is /that/ bit part of the stuff I'm supposed to type/copy/paste or is it just part of the description being provided by the poster?"

    For example, if someone were to say:
    ...and then just copy and paste the following into the whatsit
    "background-color:CornSilk; color:black; font-size:12px; font-family: verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"
    is it clear that the quotes("") should or should not be part of the value specified? And what happens if the literal value actually /needs/ quote characters embedded in it?

    Anyway, as I say, maybe the situations don't arise that often and I'm being a little picky.. so maybe ignore that bit of my advice.

    And oh.. as for , deep deep sigh smiley - smiley

    (* must be a better word, what I mean is the talky-talk bit of a post rather than express instructions)

    jont {;¬· >···{

    Report message21

  • Message 22

    , in reply to message 21.

    Posted by Angua - the vegetarian werewolf and Official Shoe Monitor (U3750755) on Sunday, 8th November 2009

    Sun, 08 Nov 2009 16:55 GMT, in reply to studioj in message 21

    The ignore function would be really really great - have I said that before? - some recent newish posters I just have to scroll on by but it does get difficult...(unlike all the fabby posters on this thread natch)

    Report message22

  • Message 23

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by Mustafa Grumble (U8596785) on Sunday, 8th November 2009

    Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:40 GMT, in reply to studioj in message 19

    Jont - it's most kind of you to pick up on the suggestion I made upthread, however most of the time I would agree with Petal, Leapers et al, and was on Friday feeling particularly cheesed off with two particular posters.

    Choosing to deny someone even the opportunity of expressing to you their opinion on a subject - however ignorant, obstinate, illogical, hate-filled or just plain irritating that opinion & post may be - is a step too far, 9 times out of 10.

    I agree with Angua - the facility to "ignore this poster" can be very useful. However I also agree with the poster upthread (PJ?) who said that such ignored posts will soon become evident in any case through thread evolution - or alternatively that one would have to reverse the block in order to make sense of the thread.

    Much as reading certain poster's opinions makes my blood boil, I would ask you, Jont, not to waste your valuable time on my behalf in this regard!

    Other: daily I am more impressed with the thread ranking facility, & think it one of the best features of your Script. Thank you.

    Report message23

  • Message 24

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by Elnora Cornstalk (U5646495) on Sunday, 8th November 2009

    Echoed, jont, on both counts.

    E. Yore, in my early days on the script, you kindly talked me through how to colour in your name. I chose a soft lavender, rather like a plush E. Yore, to which you gave your approval. It's still that colour, and one of my few pieces of decoration. (I've been too lazy to prettify in general.)

    I've resisted colour-coding posters on grounds of interest, compatibility, or degrees of acquaintance. In one of my first rather flippant posts in ML, another poster gave me a quick rap across the knuckles and I felt very strongly that I'd been asterisked, or red-inked, and blanked by him/her after that. When, after a year or so, they suddenly 'spoke' again, in a friendly thread, I was enormously cheered, and it was one of my best ML moments. I wouldn't want, in turn, to grade or erase others. Like petal jam, above, I've been taken by surprise by surprising posters; and I'd rather keep ML open.

    Last but not least - jont. It's lovely to see you in here. I've been a bit worried that you might feel a little odd seeing everyone piling in on your creation. (When we met in RL, I know we talked about how protective one can feel towards scripts and such...) You and Achilles have made something amazing; so I hope you feel proud of this thread and all your users - good eggs all!

    Elnora xx

    Report message24

  • Message 25

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by studioj (U1600165) on Sunday, 8th November 2009

    Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:46 GMT, reply to thread

    Some tips for new (and maybe not so new) users (I have copied the bulk of this from a post I made elsewhere):

    -- the script is written using the JavaScript language which runs within the browser. Both Opera and Firefox allow you to disable JavaScript altogether and/or Firefox users can install a browser AddOn called "NoScript" which can disable JavaScript except where the user has expressly permitted it
    --- if JavaScript is disabled then many of the features of the script will not be available - and you won't even be able to get into the [Config]
    ---- for this reason it is highly recommended that JavaScript be enabled in your browser - at least when using the script on these boards
    ---- if you are concerned about the security aspects of allowing JavaScript to run wholesale then Firefox users can install the "NoScript" AddOn
    ----- I currently do not use "NoScript" (though probably should) and so I am not at all familiar with how you set it up etc. So if there is anyone here with familiarity with "NoScript" then maybe they can provide advice
    ---- A quick check in Opera suggests that it allows you to enable/disable JavaScript on a site by site basis... though again I do not have much familiarity with that functionality.

    Tabbed Browsing:
    - Some of the features of the script work best (if at all) if you use the tabbed browsing feature of your browser (Note: tabbed browsing can be a boon even if you don't use the script)
    -- for instance, if you always reply to a post by opening the reply in a new tab/window then you have the ability to review the thread to which you are replying without losing your post
    -- the advanced uses of the pageTimeStamp feature really only come into their own if the thread-list is left running in its own tab (and you view individual threads in their own tabs/windows)
    --- (Note: I find that the new classifyThreads feature works at its best when used in conjunction with the pageTimeStamp and its refresh feature. Give it a try)
    -- hint for those that don't know: a simple way of opening a link in a new tab is to use the middle-mouse button (this is usually a clickable wheel nowadays) if you use a mouse, that is. I have a feeling that some trackpads may also simulate a middle-click if you press both trackpad buttons at once (though this may be tricky sometimes)
    --- also, a middle-click can be used to close a tab by clicking anywhere on it (rather than just on the [x], if that's displayed)

    deBogRoll feature:
    - with the deBogroll feature allowing the posts to use up much more of the browser width you may find that the text is now too wide for comfortable reading (I certainly do)
    -- this will likely be the case if you always have your browser maximized (particularly if you have a widescreen display)
    --- well, the (maybe not so) obvious answer is not to have your browser maximised, but in the "restored" state - and then resize the browser's window to a width that gives the most comfortable reading experience
    ---- yes, you can resize a non-maximised window (I say this 'cos relatively recently I discovered (from someone here) that not everybody knows that)
    ---- For Windows (and generally Linux flavours):
    ----- a quick way to switch between "maximised" and "restored" is to double-click on the window's title bar
    ----- you can generally resize a window by "grabbing" any one of its edges (when the window's not maxmised) and dragging it around
    ---- Mac users generally will need to use the grab handle at bottom-right of a window to resize it

    formatter feature:
    - as pointed out on the relevant help page, the formatting only shows up as "proper" formatting for those that use the script - and everyone else just gets to see the / _ * characters which can be annoying/distracting if used too much - so please show some courtesy to other board users

    postStamp feature:
    - like all other features, you don't have to use it, it's entirely optional
    -- you enable/disable the whole thing - or just bits of it - from the [Config] panel
    - if you do use it, please do try to avoid starting a *thread* with the timestamp at the very top of your post as it uses up 30 of the first 40 characters of a post that appear on a thread-list (and is pretty irritating)
    -- there is a fairly polite (imho) reminder of this in each compose-post page but it seems that several people either ignore that reminder or have switched it off altogether in the [Config]

    - do take a poke around in there to see what's what. Remember:
    -- not all features are enabled by default and you may be missing out on some things you would appreciate
    -- conversely there may be things enabled by default that you don't care for and can disable. eg: bits or all of the postStamp feature

    Please do take the time to read the help pages - at least at some stage - that way you will likely make the most of the script's features. Apologies if some of it comes across as a bit techy - writing is not my strong point.

    jont {;¬· >···{

    Report message25

  • Message 26

    , in reply to message 25.

    Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 13:54 GMT, in reply to studioj in message 25

    Bumping this for fire-fairy (and anyone else who hasn't realised it exists!)

    Report message26

  • Message 27

    , in reply to message 26.

    Posted by lambswool (U4508857) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 13:56 GMT, in reply to E23) in message 26

    Just found it, great idea, thanks!

    Report message27

  • Message 28

    , in reply to message 26.

    Posted by studioj (U1600165) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:12 GMT, in reply to E. Yore (low I.Q. pedant) in message 26

    Thanks E. Yore.

    I have changed the main script page to direct people to /this/ thread rather than "The Bull" should they have questions or suggestions.

    jont {;¬· >···{

    Report message28

  • Message 29

    , in reply to message 28.

    Posted by petal jam (U1466691) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 17:13 GMT, in reply to studioj in message 28

    jont [hello!] a small query - not a functional problem as such - re Who's Online. Until some months ago, when names with aliases were displayed, the alias also showed any decorative stuff - iirc an exact copy of the label in standard thread view. At some point a red border turned black then other colours changed and now the colours and borders on the labels are barely reproduced at all.

    For some reason E.Yore still has a lovely thistle surround; Mauricette still has a red border but no other colours [everyone else is black with black surround.] Apart from the fact that they both post trans-Manche (sp?) I can't think why.

    Cheese scone?

    Report message29

  • Message 30

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 17:28 GMT, in reply to petal jam in message 29

    Petal, it seems normal to me. I've just colour formatted you (dark pink lettering on a light crushed raspberry background - work in progress) in Firefox, and you come up in those colours on the Who's Online aliases.

    Report message30

  • Message 31

    , in reply to message 30.

    Posted by petal jam (U1466691) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 17:49 GMT, in reply to E. Yore (low I.Q. pedant) in message 30

    Yeah - pink is a bit inevitable when one takes a flagrantly girly name! The labels still appear as designed on threads. Suspect it's becuase I do them in Geek mode and something hasn't updated, or possibly I missed an update for one of the graphics bits for FF.

    Noticed recently that someone has been posting a foodie blogg for nearly two years under the name rose petal jam. Not me! Should have acquired the rights.

    Report message31

  • Message 32

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by studioj (U1600165) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 17:54 GMT, in reply to petal jam in message 29

    Hmmm... not sure.

    Looks ok to me.. and I've just put a border on you to test it (I don't normally have borders).

    I can think of two possible things:

    1) there may be an error in one of your aliases "early on" in the list and that is confusing the browser for the remainder

    2) I have a vague memory of you using a specific.. um.. skin (or something) for h2g2 and that there is a conflict there. I don't remember using or selecting a specific skin (or whatever it is I am referring to) but do vaguely recall there being a problem at one stage with the WhosOnLine page for those that did (and it may have been you).

    If number 1 then it might be proved if the "offending poster" drops off the page - or you eliminate each one in turn (the alias, not the poster!) though the latter might be a lot of work for you (and it may not be the cause).

    If number 2 then you will have to tell/remind me of whatever it is I am talking about (re: skins) and I will have to try it.

    In either case, it may be helpful if you could paste here the text of one of the aliases that is failing - for me to try.

    jont {;¬· >···{

    Report message32

  • Message 33

    , in reply to message 32.

    Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 18:11 GMT, in reply to studioj in message 32

    Okay, I've noticed a new (small) problem in Firefox: when I was fiddling around with petal's name tag, in the end I wanted her to have a thick (6px, ridge) border in the same colour as the foreground font colour. It doesn't work - the ridge border in that colour appears in the Name line, but when I save it, it goes to being the same colour as the background colour. I've tried other border changes, and it doesn't seem to want to accept any border colour other than the background colour.

    Report message33

  • Message 34

    , in reply to message 33.

    Posted by studioj (U1600165) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 18:20 GMT, in reply to E. Yore (low I.Q. pedant) in message 33

    I don't know for certain but there may be limitations on what colours can be rendered when using a border-style of "ridge"

    If you want me to look at the problem then you had better paste here the failing alias. Switch to then go to edit the alias and copy what's there in the box and paste it here.

    jont {;¬· >···{

    Report message34

  • Message 35

    , in reply to message 34.

    Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 18:28 GMT, in reply to studioj in message 34

    petal jam

    Ah, I see that 'geek mode' is the code I enter into my config file via Opera. In Firefox I had great fun putting all sorts of colours around people unlike in Opera where very few have colours. I'll know now what to copy across!

    Report message35

  • Message 36

    , in reply to message 32.

    Posted by petal jam (U1466691) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 18:35 GMT, in reply to studioj in message 32

    1. yes I installed the skin that Peet came up with for MLers yonks ago. I've been unable to shed it, even by following instructions.

    2. not so long ago, all the aliases showed as 'normal' I had assumed that the Script had out-evolved me and wasn't in the least bothered.

    3. currently the only alias which shows as 'normal' is E. Yore:
    &ensp e &middot yore &fnof &ensp</span)

    4. a few show the coloured border, but no coloured background or text [text is black] like this one:

    5. most have just black text and border:
    &ensp Bellissima&ensp

    Some of mine are styled, then copied for another poster with [usually] colour change e.g. an adaptation of Dragonfly's label in 4. with different colours also shows just a coloured border and black text:

    From my pov there is no identical feature which would explain why /some/ coloured borders show up but no coloured text does. If it was a problem with the browser or my screen then the colours would not appear as 'normal' in any mode.... errr.. would they?

    Don't worry too long about it, jont. Mostly I'm just curious.

    Report message36

  • Message 37

    , in reply to message 36.

    Posted by petal jam (U1466691) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 18:46 GMT, in reply to petal jam in message 36

    Sorry - meant to add: on the lines of interference from the h2g2 skin, if I switch to "Order by ID" then the colours are restored - or at least for those currently online. Obviously that's a practical answer - but why would the colours show in "Order by ID" and not in "Order by Name"?

    Apols if it was me who had this problem before.

    Report message37

  • Message 38

    , in reply to message 35.

    Posted by studioj (U1600165) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 18:50 GMT, in reply to E. Yore (low I.Q. pedant) in message 35

    Um.. I (possibly, of course*), cannot see the problem here.

    I see red text on a pink background with a light/dark red ridge border.

    (* it may be that you selected a different colour for the border than what eventually got saved and then appears when you copy and pasted here via <geek mode&gtsmiley - winkeye

    So I can't tell if you actually selected a different border color to background or foreground colour while in the editor. Maybe you can tell me what actual colours you did select for each (and it what order).

    But, while you were doing that, I did this test myself (starting from nothing and using just the fancy editor), I gave you this embelishment:
    E. Yore (low I.Q. pedant)

    and it clearly shows a different background to border colour.

    Are we saying here that it is the editor that is ignoring a certain requested colour (and discarding it during the save) or it is being saved but it isn't being renderered as you expect?

    jont {;¬· >···{

    Report message38

  • Message 39

    , in reply to message 37.

    Posted by studioj (U1600165) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 18:56 GMT, in reply to petal jam in message 37

    Petal, I haven't fully read or absorbed your previous post because the following in the later post:

    shouts to me that my theory number 1 may be the cause - that there may be one rogue alias that has confused the browser.

    A common thing that does cause the browser to get confused is unbalanced quote characters. Or maybe you used an apostrophe in someone's alias - that might do it.

    Maybe you can eliminate and restore each alias in turn and see if the problem goes away?

    Meanwhile I will have a proper read of your earlier post and have a think.

    jont {;¬· >···{

    Report message39

  • Message 40

    , in reply to message 38.

    Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 18:59 GMT, in reply to studioj in message 38

    Jont, I think we've already gone into territory where I'll need an interpreter but ...

    All I want is for the ridge border to be the same colour as the foreground text - I selected both the same (in the fifth box, last one on the right, bottom row, second last colour (red next to the black)).

    In the lines where it says Names, Notes - it appears as I want it (dark pink with shadow). But in the box at the top, next to save, save unformatted, cancel, it appears differently, sort of the same pink as background with darker shadow. Whatever the colour I select for the border, it appears lighter than in the 'Name' box.

    It is only a niggle, jont, not worth worriting over.

    Report message40

  • Message 41

    , in reply to message 40.

    Posted by E Yore (U1479700) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:02 GMT, in reply to E. Yore (low I.Q. pedant) in message 40

    Okay, just done some fiddling about and the problem is the 'ridge' - anything else comes out with the colour chosen.

    Report message41

  • Message 42

    , in reply to message 39.

    Posted by Hebe (U1477254) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    just want to say how wonderful the script is. I'm without it at the moment and I am missing it. ML just isn't the same.

    I'm currently using a work laptop and I'm not keen to load much onto it - indeed I can't load much onto it, I can't even print to my home printer without admin rights, which I don't have.

    New laptop should be with me week after next and it'll be one of the first things downloaded (after firefox and grease monkey).

    Thanks again to Jont and Achilles for making ML soo much better.

    Report message42

  • Message 43

    , in reply to message 40.

    Posted by studioj (U1600165) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:49 GMT, in reply to E. Yore (low I.Q. pedant) in message 40

    I think maybe there is just something going on that you are not expecting (and it's not obvious - so don't knock yourself for that)

    When you choose "ridge", "inset" or "outset" the browser is being asked to try to render something that looks "raised" (or inset) and to do so it needs to use *two* (or, in the case of "ridge", three) colours - one for the "highlighted" bit and one for the "shadowed" bit - but you can only specify *one* colour.

    So, as far as I can make out, the browser will attempt to choose a "light" colour and a "dark" color based on the hue of the single colour you have chosen.

    - If you choose an already light colour then the browser simply uses a darkened version the colour you chose for the "shadow" part.

    - If you choose an already dark colour then the browser simply uses a lightened version the colour you chose for the "highlight" part.

    - If you choose a colour with mid-brightness then the browser uses a lightened and darkenen version of that colour for the "highlight" and "shadow" colours respectively.

    So, in all likeliness, it will seem to use colours that you have not chosen.

    If all this is the case then one might expect to see the same problems if using "inset" and "outset". Note that in the case of "ridge" the browser *does* seem to use the exact colour you have requested in the "top surface" of the "ridge" (by which I mean: the bit between the "highlight" and the "shadow" of the ridge)

    I hope that makes some sense.

    Having said all that, I've no idea why you seem to see a different effect in the different boxes of the editor (when playing around here I've not noticed it) but it may be a minor failing in the editor code. Dunno.

    jont {;¬· >···{

    Report message43

  • Message 44

    , in reply to message 36.

    Posted by studioj (U1600165) on Sunday, 29th November 2009

    Sun, 29 Nov 2009 20:18 GMT, in reply to petal jam in message 36

    I think I'm getting a bit lost on this one, Petal.

    Are you using the term 'normal' to mean the same thing in your points 2 & 3 ? Either way, what do you mean by 'normal'? (does it mean embelished or unembelished)

    In point 3, your alias text for E.Yore is in error, it ends with a ")" rather than a ">" - I don't doubt that that might be a pasting/editing error here in the thread rather than actuality. I tested the same (erroneous) alias text and it doesn't seem to cause the symptoms you describe - but I might be using a different browser/rendering-engine than you are (I am using FF 3.5.5 on Windows 2000 and also on OS X 10.4.11 <spit&gtsmiley - winkeye

    As for the skin business, I tried switching what I thought were skins (Brunel, Classic goo, Alabaster) from the preference page on h2g2 - but despite it saying my preferences have been updated I see buggerall difference.. so maybe the (switching of) skinning is broken now (in which case you may well be permanently stuck with whatever you're currently using) smiley - sigh

    Thanks for giving such detail in your post.. but I have to admit I got lost somewhere in the middle of it!

    I still think you may have just one rogue alias (it could be you!) but I'll have a further ponder.

    jont {;¬· >···{

    Report message44

  • Message 45

    , in reply to message 44.

    Posted by petal jam (U1466691) on Monday, 30th November 2009

    Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:24 GMT, in reply to studioj

    Yes, I spotted that on copying and checked; Turns out also had ) instead of > as the final character. However it is still the _only_ alias which appears in full colour on the Who's Online page.

    Later last night I had another look, loaded the WO page, selected Order by ID and got a mixture of colours and not-colours, as with Order by Name. If there is a reason for the anomaly, I can't see any pairs of criteria - e.g. when X is displayed online, all the aliases go funny.

    Not surprised you got confused!¬) You did once point out to me that I had stray characters. To me they aren't stray characters they are part of the design, thus >&ensp>Dragonfly<&ensp< displays as >Dragonfly< with wings. But as an example of the computer reading embellishments as code it doesn't fly [groan] becuase for years it displayed in full colour on Who's online, and so did everything else.

    Next time time I'm sufficiently bored, I'll look at my saddo's Word file of saved alias codes and play at Darwin look for copying errors and mutations. Let you know if I ever find the missing link.

    Cheers and a Grolsch.

    Report message45

  • Message 46

    , in reply to message 45.

    Posted by studioj (U1600165) on Monday, 30th November 2009

    Mon, 30 Nov 2009 21:22 GMT, in reply to petal jam in message 45

    Ok, thanks for the further info.

    as the final character>

    I do hope you corrected it to see if it made a difference! smiley - smiley

    Anyway, here's a reasonably simple thing for you to try (if you've got ten minutes (at least to try identify any errors)):

    - find your "prefs.js" file, mine (on Win2000) is in:
    C:\Documents and Settings\~~~username~~~\Application Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\~~~magic profile name~~~\prefs.js

    - open that in some simple text editor so's you can copy a section out
    - find all the aliases - I'm sure you know already or can easily find them
    - copy all those lines
    - start a new document in a simple text editor that lets you do a global find and replace
    - paste the text into the new document (close the editor with "prefs.js" just to be on the safe side - you really don't want to accidently corrupt that one)
    - globally replace [backslash][doublequote] ( \" ) with just [doublequote] ( " )
    - at the very top of the file (before all the alias stuff) put (exactly):
    - at the very bottom of the file (after all the alias stuff) put (exactly):
    - save the file (somewhere handy) as something like "test.html"
    - leave that editor open
    - now go find that file on the disc and open it (it should open in a browser, eg: FF)

    You will see all the extra crap that we're not really interested in but you should also see all your alias texts rendered in the colours etc that you specified

    If there is a badly formed embelishement (eg: <span&gtsmiley - winkeye then it is likely that the colour (or whatever) will spill over into the following line and it should be obvious where there might be an error. If so, correct the error via the editor, save, and refresh in the browser.

    Remember, we are correcting here and saving just the test.html page we're using to find any errors, we're not actually correcting them in the right place...

    If you have to make corrections, make the same correction to the real alias texts via Firefox's "about:config" page:

    - open a new Firefox tab/window
    - put "about:config" (w/o quotes) into the address bar
    - dismiss the warning about dragons, after all, you have a knight in shining armour behind you(*)
    - in the filter bar, enter the userId (number) or some part of the alias name to quickly find the entry
    - double click the entry to edit it
    - take care on each one

    Shout if you need help... but right now I'm gonna grab some grub.

    I've just done this and found quite a lot of errors in mine!

    Thanks for the Grolsch!

    jont {;¬· >···{
    (* ok, quite some distance behind you, I admit)

    Report message46

  • Message 47

    , in reply to message 45.

    Posted by studioj (U1600165) on Monday, 30th November 2009

    Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:38 GMT, in reply to petal jam in message 45

    ps: 2 things:

    1) I forgot to mention, when the E. Yore alias closes with a ) instead of a > it certainly shows up as an error using the method I described (the outlining attribute spills over into all of the lines that follow)


    Yes, I remember now. But not exactly "stray characters" as much as "missing characters". When you insert html entities such as your "&ensp", "&middot" etc, they really should be each terminated with a semi-colon eg: "&ensp;"

    Whilst they may have worked in the past (and actually do so now, in my browser) they are not guaranteed to work in the future - and, indeed, may not be working properly for you now (in your browser).

    Remember, the html rendering engines inside browsers are being continually tweaked and improved (and, for all I know, you may be using a different renderer to me) - and part of that may be to make them be more strict with the html encoding. So's you really ought to correct all your html entities to be each terminated with a semi-colon. Even if it's not a problem right now it may well be in future (and we'll probably have to go through this all again... until one of us remembers!)

    jont {;¬· >···{

    Report message47

  • bump for Lemon tree

    Report message48

  • Message 49

    , in reply to message 48.

    Posted by San Fairy Anne™ (U14092798) on Thursday, 10th December 2009

    Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:51 GMT, in reply to barefoot choirmistress (Grade 1 listed status at present but soon to be partly demolished) in message 48

    Jont, please, why do I get lots of ? in black diamonds in many people's posts and instead of the â„¢ in my 'Your nickname is San Fairy Anneâ„¢' bit, not when I put â„¢ in the text. Not really bothered but would like to know. SFAnneâ„¢

    Report message49

  • Message 50

    , in reply to message 49.

    Posted by Leaping Badger (U3587940) on Thursday, 10th December 2009

    Not, jont, but my understanding is that it's because the font your browser is using to display text does not have the characters used in some names.

    Perhaps a setting has changed. This has come up a few times before - and it happened to me a few years ago. I can't remember exactly what resolved it, but I've got a feeling it was as simple as flushing the cache, although I can't think of a logical reason why that would work.

    Hope that helps.

    Report message50

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