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Small children on public transport

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Messages: 51 - 100 of 141
  • Message 51

    , in reply to message 50.

    Posted by virtual_jan (U13662056) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    I'm going to be needing that tin hat, I can feel it... 

    It's just a matter of time. I fear the worst (or should that be wurst?)


    v_j

    ps I always had mine on my lap if others needed to sit etc etc ctd p94

    Report message1

  • Message 52

    , in reply to message 49.

    Posted by Almond_Aire (U2259917) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    When I was at secondary school, so not a very young child, we got regular lectures from the head about how we must stand up on buses for older people. Bus passengers would phone the school to complain that the girls weren't standing up for others.

    This was fine, in theory. But I often had a huge briefcase, plus on domestic science days, a basket with the latest cooked item in it. So standing up was very, very difficult if there was nowhere to put my bag/basket without tripping someone up.

    Therefore, we generally sat upstairs where nobody was standing, struggling up and down the stairs with our loads.

    I agree with the good manners thing, especially for very young children, but it can be impractical for someone of any age who has a lot of bags, unless you have a sitting friend who will hug them for you.

    Alma.

    Report message2

  • Message 53

    , in reply to message 51.

    Posted by Dragonfly (U2223700) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    I'm going to be needing that tin hat, I can feel it...

    It's just a matter of time. I fear the worst (or should that be wurst?)


    v_j

    ps I always had mine on my lap if others needed to sit etc etc ctd p94 


    I do think you should have put your tin hat on your head and your child on your lap, v_j!

    Report message3

  • Message 54

    , in reply to message 53.

    Posted by virtual_jan (U13662056) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    I do think you should have put your tin hat on your head and your child on your lap, v_j! 

    chuckle

    of course, a very small child could sit /in/ the tin hat quite comfortably


    v_j

    Report message4

  • Message 55

    , in reply to message 43.

    Posted by LoopyLobes (U14384399) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    My children have had to pay since they were about five. Certainly by the time they were at senior school (11) I was forking out £200 a term for each of them to stand on a crowded bus and be glared at (or worse) by very rude old people and chavvy mothers with snotty babies in buggies.

    Report message5

  • Message 56

    , in reply to message 55.

    Posted by zelda (U2012536) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    Was the pushchair like this?

    www.mamasandpapas.co...

    Report message6

  • Message 57

    , in reply to message 51.

    Posted by DragonFluff (U6879248) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    I fear the worst (or should that be wurst?) 

    Oh, very good, Jan!

    Report message7

  • Message 58

    , in reply to message 21.

    Posted by LoopyLobes (U14384399) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    Having googled the living daylights out of buggies/pushchairs/prams/travel systems, I have come to the conclusion that this must have been some kind of invalid carriage specially created for a child with some kind of disorder that means it needs to be kept upright. I can't think of any reason why someone would choose to have a buggy any bigger than the usual size because it's hard enough as it is to fit such items into car boots, hallways, doorways etc.

    Report message8

  • Message 59

    , in reply to message 58.

    Posted by DragonFluff (U6879248) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    www.pushchairtrader....

    www.pramworld.co.uk/...

    How about these? Dutch pushchairs for tall parents. They look /enormous/.

    Fluff

    Report message9

  • Message 60

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    Why, oh why cannot they sit on their parent's lap rather than taking up a precious seat especially at this time of year when people are suffering from all sorts of coughs and colds and are clearly struggling to and from work with difficulty? 

    Scarlett, I agree. [waits for modding] [dons tin hat and settles in behind the sofa]

    But I occasionally browse the range of the hilarious to the truly sad in the Mumsnet forum 'Am I Being Unreasonable?' and there there are any number of threads in which parents (presumably mothers) are militantly posting about how it is 'disgusting' (a favourite Mumsnet word) to expect that children should stand for adults, simply because they are children and adults are older. That children have just as much of a right to a seat as an adult. And adults do not have a right to a seat just because they are adults. And that actually a child may need a seat more than an able-bodied adult. (that last always gets me -- has a child just done a long day's work?)

    Apparently expecting children to give up seats when adults are standing is Oppressive, No Longer Done, and is vehemently Anti-Child and Anti-Family.

    But like most of the people on this thread, I was taught to give up my seat if there were any adult standing. Indeed, our bus passes and concessionary fare conditions stated that we couldn't occupy a seat if there were adults standing.

    But it seems that some of the current generation of parents isn't teaching their children about concern for others, which to me is the basis of any idea of 'good manners.' It was part of the Guide & Brownie Law: Consider others before yourself.

    Report message10

  • Message 61

    , in reply to message 60.

    This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the House Rules in some way.

  • Message 62

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    Because they have paid for it? 

    Oh no they haven't. Busfare is for the journey. Seats are available for some people, hanging on poles and wrist straps for everyone else. Nobody is entitled to a seat. Politeness is nice.

    Report message12

  • Message 63

    , in reply to message 60.

    Posted by NorthernGal (U2344632) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    I think it has to do with cultural norms. I am always surprised at the level of courtesy the Canadians show one another (there are regional exceptions, of course). When we were in Montreal, every time we got onto the subway with our 4 year old, someone would jump up and give us a seat for her, they would also do the same for anyone appearing to be elderly or disabled.

    I found it to be very thoughtful, because young children do have a difficult time standing on moving trains/buses. I find the seating on buses/trains to be very tight, and having a larger child sit on a lap is very difficult, especially if you have long legs. I would much rather stand.

    I think a little consideration of other people, regardless of age is what we should aspire to.

    Report message13

  • Message 64

    , in reply to message 63.

    Posted by LoopyLobes (U14384399) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    I think a little consideration of other people, regardless of age is what we should aspire to. 

    Exactly right, Northern Gal, it works all ways. It can't be nice for our young people to be growing up knowing that so many of their elders resent their very existence. That's also a good point about young children being unstable when standing on public transport, some of them can be very wobbly and vulnerable indeed.

    Report message14

  • Message 65

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by Penstemon (U4429639) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    Oh, Scarlett, you are brave. I happen to agree with you - if all the seats are taken, and there are adults standing, and children sitting who could sit on their parents' knee, it's only polite for them to do so, so as many people as possible can sit.

    But there will be at least one person along soon to tell us that the seat has been paid for, ask whether we are qualified to ask the question in the first place, and roundly condemn us for labelling all parents as bad.

    Budge up on the controversial bench, here's your tin hat. Wear it with pride.

    Fluff  
    Ok I'm here !

    Report message15

  • Message 66

    , in reply to message 65.

    Posted by Penstemon (U4429639) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    And could you stop old people pushing my children out of the way so they can get on the bus or train first, and then refusing to move their shopping off the seat next to them so one of the children could sit down. Have they paid for a seat for the shopping?

    I do wonder whether some people on these boards was ever a child themselves and what sort of awful experience they must of had to be so horrible about families, parents and children. As loopy says its quite worrying in some ways.

    Report message16

  • Message 67

    , in reply to message 66.

    Posted by peacemaker (U14739277) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    Donning not only a tin hat but also a full suit of armour to wade in here!

    Until I had grandchildren I probably was less tolerant of children on public transport than I should have been. I remember one trip to Scotland where a woman could not control 3 young kids. It wasn't the children's behaviour that I found irritating but the fact that she kept plying them with junk food, which only made them more and more hyper.

    In hindsight I actually feel sorry for that mother. She was doing her best, no doubt, to keep them quiet on a very long journey. I should not have judged her according to my own standards.

    My daughter now travels that route with her two very young children. The last two journeys have been a nightmare for her. One with a crying baby, who was coming down with a cold, the other with both children vomiting. It must have been awful for the passengers sitting around her and knowing my daughter she would have been apologising profusely.

    Did people complain? No they were very sympathetic and offered to hold the baby whilst she dealt with the other one. And on every journey people help her with her luggage.

    Also she could not manage if one of them did not have seat, and it is paid for as part of her family rail card. I suspect the cases of sheer thoughtlessness from parents with small children is actually rather small.

    Report message17

  • Message 68

    , in reply to message 67.

    Posted by aminam (U2277964) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    " to be so horrible about families, parents and children. "

    Er - who's doing that?

    Am x

    Report message18

  • Message 69

    , in reply to message 67.

    Posted by jane (U2276921) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    Oh gosh Peacemaker - that reminds me of an act of random kindness I received from a fellow passenger. I had two under 5's and was close to the end of a long train journey when it became apparent that youngest child was in sheer agony from mouth ulcers. She was testy and teasy, and though by no means crying at full throttle, she was beond seei g the aense of having to walk home. i lived within walking distance from the station but could not carry her and luggage. A kind young woman offered to take a 10 minute detour to help me. I have never been so grateful.

    The flip side is that my now teenagers always offer to help parents with buggies or older people with luggage if they need help on public transport.
    I do the same.

    The lesson is that there are acts of kindness and consideration from all ages in life - as well as the opposite.

    Report message19

  • Message 70

    , in reply to message 68.

    Posted by Skyebird (U14198692) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    I agree that children should normally stand for older people but the first time someone does it for me I will probably cry! LOL No pleasing some!

    Report message20

  • Message 71

    , in reply to message 63.

    Posted by Auntie Molly (U14110968) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    I found it to be very thoughtful, because young children do have a difficult time standing on moving trains/buses.  

    So do short adults! If I try hang from the straps I can't get a proper purchase on the floor of the bus with my feet and I swing around when the bus goes round bends and corners. If I'm not within grabbing reach of a pole I feel very vulnerable. But I don't expect anyone to offer me a seat.

    on my journey home from work my bus, which is usually virtually empty when it gets to my stop, stops outside a large concert venue where there are often hundreds of pensioners pouring out of the matinee performance all wanting the bus into town. I feel a bit resentful of being expected to give up my seat to people who've been having a nice afternoon at a show when I've been working all day!

    Report message21

  • Message 72

    , in reply to message 70.

    Posted by Asparagus (U15510902) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    I agree that children should normally stand for older people but the first time someone does it for me I will probably cry! LOL No pleasing some!  Been there, done that, got the hanky...

    Bless the young lad who stood up for me though, I was feeling terrible and probably looked even older than I am. A blow to the ego nonetheless.

    Feel very sorry for a lot of the children I see travelling to and from school - they seem to have such heavy bags. We used to have desks, but I understand that many schools don't now work that way and therefore the poor little beetles have to carry everything with them, pretty much, all the time. When my child was a schoolie - a while back now - they had a locker system and that involved a great deal more lugging around of not-immediately-needed stuff than I had to contend with

    Report message22

  • Message 73

    , in reply to message 70.

    Posted by LindaLee (U2777941) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    I am old enough and creaky enough to be absolutely delighted when anyone offers me a seat!

    A couple of years ago I was on a crowded train when a teenage lad stood up and offered his seat to a woman who was, I should think, about 50. She snapped at him, 'Do I look as if I need to sit down?!' He went crimson and obviously wished the floor would open and swallow him up. It was so unkind - I bet he never offered anyone a seat again!.

    Report message23

  • Message 74

    , in reply to message 69.

    Posted by smeesue (U5496649) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    It delights me when we see someone struggling with small children and shopping/luggage or something and the Wee Smees beat me to helping them. They've been brought up to hold doors, give folk their seats and otherwise make themselves useful.


    These things, the wee courtesies and pleasantries, are what grease the wheels of our society. It saddens, and alarms, me every time I realise how many people simply don't bother because there's nothing in it for them or they simply cba with it.

    There's also the other side. I've been that person, with three kids under five, a pile of shopping and a stroppy child. Despite my best efforts to keep mine amused on journeys, they have, of course, played up on occasion, either because they weren't well, didn't travel well or were simply having a moment, as small children do. I remember those who tutted and muttered - and I also remember, with gratitude, the sympathetic smiles and the odd bit of support, such as someone else saying ''your mum said don't do that, so you shouldn't''. And because I remember what it was like, I try to pass it on. So if a baby in a queue is shrieking, I'll often go and speak to them quietly, try to distract them for a bit so Mum can get her bits and bobs sorted. Or I'll help with packing the shopping. I'm not a saint, not by any stretch of anyones imagination, and I too have seen parents, and occasionally kids, I could quite cheerfully take a roll of duct tape to. But on the whole, I just remember and try to help!

    Report message24

  • Message 75

    , in reply to message 40.

    Posted by Campbell in Farewell Clogs (U14226916) on Wednesday, 6th February 2013

    nope, 4 wheels, definitely vaguely (huh?) Dalek shaped. The child was remarkably cheerful in it anyway. He got lots of attention from other shoppers. I don't tend to give toddlers attention - I just gaped discreetly.

    Report message25

  • Message 76

    , in reply to message 61.

    Posted by Mrs PPG (U14114383) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    Why do you browse Mumsnet? It's not a place I have ever set eyes upon and I am a mum. Red, once again, you do sound terribly, terribly bitter and resentful of young people and children. I worry for you.  I couldn't disagree with you more.

    Report message26

  • Message 77

    , in reply to message 76.

    Posted by Loopy_ Lou (U10913539) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    I agree with my near-namesake (loopylobes)
    I do think its a bit odd for a non-parent to browse around mumsnet for the purpose of criticising or mocking parents.

    Report message27

  • Message 78

    , in reply to message 77.

    Posted by Mrs PPG (U14114383) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    I wish you would engage your brain a little before posting at times Loopy. Whilst you like an argument, I had never thought of you as someone who deliberately wishes to hurt people.

    I'm unsubscribing now, not in a fit of pique, but simply because life's too short for these kind of under the belt attacks.

    Report message28

  • Message 79

    , in reply to message 78.

    Posted by Loopy_ Lou (U10913539) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    I don't understand the point you are making, PPG

    Report message29

  • Message 80

    , in reply to message 79.

    Posted by My Mum is turning in her grave (U13137565) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    Surely the main criteria is to consider anyone who has a greater need. I was on an overnight bus somewhere in South America. A man got on with a small child. He lay down on the (filthy) floor but the child was left standing so I took her on to my lap - much to the displeasure of the man sitting next to me. How could anyone expect a child to stand for an eight hour journey?

    When I was in NYC i was overwhelmed by the number of young men who offered me their seat. Two almost came to blows over whose seat I was to have. That's when I realised how old and decript I looked (am).

    Report message30

  • Message 81

    , in reply to message 77.

    Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    I do think its a bit odd for a non-Archers listener to browse around The Archers messageboard for the purpose of criticising or mocking Archers listners.

    Report message31

  • Message 82

    , in reply to message 81.

    Posted by marshalls (U14871776) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    Children and teenagers should give up their seats for adults and i would be very angry if mine didn't. I did and one day hopefully, if the tradition continues, i will benefit from a kid giving up their seat for me. I think a m parent would have a very hard face to allow their child to remain seated while all around, adults stood.

    As for the woman whom somesaid said shouted at someone for offering her a seat, i would not have been able to keep silent.

    Mums net is a good resource but there are a minority on it who do think that having a child trumps everything else.

    Report message32

  • Message 83

    , in reply to message 36.

    Posted by Garde_Champetre (U14354428) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    Is it from the Xplory range by Stokke? They carry the child much higher than usual and fairly upright, too.

    www.kiddisave.co.uk/... 
    I heart the Xplory. It's absolutely fantastic in all respects other than that it takes up a bit more car boot space than I'd like (on the odd times that we take the car anywhere).

    It has a footprint which is about the same as a small buggy, albeit that it's tall.

    Report message33

  • Message 84

    , in reply to message 75.

    Posted by LindaLee (U2777941) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    nope, 4 wheels, definitely vaguely (huh?) Dalek shaped. The child was remarkably cheerful in it anyway. He got lots of attention from other shoppers. I don't tend to give toddlers attention - I just gaped discreetly.   You do realise we expect you to lurk in the supermarket with a camera from now on, so that you can post a picture of this amazing contraption for us to see...?!

    Report message34

  • Message 85

    , in reply to message 81.

    Posted by Campbell in Farewell Clogs (U14226916) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    >>>I do think its a bit odd for a non-Archers listener to browse around The Archers messageboard for the purpose of criticising or mocking Archers listners.<<<

    not sure that's a valid comparison Red. We all know that lots of non-Archers listening folk are here because of the closure of other boards. And so they come here to chat, not (only ; - ) to criticise. I do find the idea of a non-Mum going into mumsnet a tad weird myself - maybe you could explain (only if you want to obviously - just me being nosey really) why you go in there. Are you doing some sort of study into the language used? I wouldn't have thought that was your field particularly, but I could be mistaken (I often am...)

    Report message35

  • Message 86

    , in reply to message 85.

    Posted by Rusters (U11225963) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    Can't speak for Red, but I have looked at mumsnet from time to time when, for instance, someone here has posted a link to a particular discussion.

    I am thinking particularly of the time when a poster there started a thread about a problem with their child, which some quickly cottoned on to being actually about a TA parent/child dilemma. It became steadily more hilarious, as most people clicked and ran with it, and others were bewildered or annoyed, accusing the poster of making things up (without realising the source).

    Once you are looking at mumsnet, it is easy to be drawn in to look at other discussions, some of which are interesting, amusing, or helpful (re household or fashion stuff), and some downright jaw-dropping, imo.

    Rusty

    Report message36

  • Message 87

    , in reply to message 58.

    Posted by Campbell in Farewell Clogs (U14226916) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    >>>Having googled the living daylights out of buggies/pushchairs/prams/travel systems, I have come to the conclusion that this must have been some kind of invalid carriage specially created for a child with some kind of disorder that means it needs to be kept upright.<<<

    (I'm starting to think I hallucinated this half baby/half Dalek contraption...)
    The child/baby certainly didn't look invalid in any way (not that I'm an expert) - it seemed remarkably cheery and (almost literally) in yer face. Maybe it was some kind of prototype which isn't in mass production yet... I remember a few years ago seeing the first bikes-with-child-seats/boxes being pushed in front of them. At first they were 'something special'. Now every other parent in my yuppy street has one.
    Here's an illustration before I set off another googling frenzy:
    www.bastionoranje.nl...

    Report message37

  • Message 88

    , in reply to message 85.

    Posted by The final throes of Geek The Amazing Dogboy (U1759005) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    Why do you browse Mumsnet? It's not a place I have ever set eyes upon and I am a mum.  

    Probably the same reason I read Daily Mail Comments. Theyr'e funny.




    Report message38

  • Message 89

    , in reply to message 81.

    Posted by Go away historians of the future (U1484964) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    >> I do think its a bit odd for a non-Archers listener to browse around The Archers messageboard <<

    Yeah.

    And as for those people that used to post on Womens Hour without either listening to the programme or being a Women...

    Report message39

  • Message 90

    , in reply to message 87.

    Posted by LindaLee (U2777941) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    < bakfiets > - what are bakfiets, C-in-C? - I'm assuming they're not at the end of an animal's backlegs...?

    Report message40

  • Message 91

    , in reply to message 90.

    Posted by Almond_Aire (U2259917) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    I assume a bakfiets is a bicycle the baker would use when delivering bread (bakker = baker, fiets = bike). One with a large container in front of it.

    I bet that link of CinC's doesn't last long, as it's in Clog...

    Alma.

    Report message41

  • Message 92

    , in reply to message 90.

    Posted by Campbell in Farewell Clogs (U14226916) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    fiets = bike. Bak = em, box/container. So a bakfiets is a bike with a box at the front.

    Report message42

  • Message 93

    , in reply to message 92.

    Posted by littlecandle (U2651900) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    That's an unusual word for a bike, Campbell - doesn't seem to bear any resemblance to cycle, velo or anything Greek or Latin.

    I might have looked at that mumsnet had it been called mothersnet. As it is, my husband and I are muddling through bringing up our two without recourse to it.

    Anyway, I don't think the strange belief that having a child trumps all other opinions is restricted to some of those who post on that board. Without ever having seen it, I can recount plenty of interactions with women who hold that view - and that giving birth somehow means that their husband has to be grateful to them for evermore (what? you gained nothing yourself from having your child?) and absolves them from having to contribute to the household income.

    As someone who benefits enormously from other people's kindness in giving up their seat to me (disabled stick user), I'm polite and grateful to those that do so, and my children in turn are considerate on buses because they know it is appreciated.

    lc

    Report message43

  • Message 94

    , in reply to message 73.

    Posted by Scarlett the Harlot (U14942477) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    I am old enough and creaky enough to be absolutely delighted when anyone offers me a seat!

    A couple of years ago I was on a crowded train when a teenage lad stood up and offered his seat to a woman who was, I should think, about 50. She snapped at him, 'Do I look as if I need to sit down?!' He went crimson and obviously wished the floor would open and swallow him up. It was so unkind - I bet he never offered anyone a seat again!. 


    I had a similar experience. I was sitting and a lady got on the bus with loads of bags (she was in her fifties) so I offered her my seat. She too snapped at me that she "wasn't that old". I did try and point out I was offering the seat because she had tons of shopping but she remained affronted.

    Silly old trout!

    I am now going to browse mumsnet as it sounds fascinating!

    Report message44

  • Message 95

    , in reply to message 94.

    Posted by DeeKay Bee - Disenfranchised (U236881) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    < I am now going to browse mumsnet as it sounds fascinating! >

    You're brave, they make this lot [vaguely points around] seem normal.

    Report message45

  • Message 96

    , in reply to message 94.

    Posted by LindaLee (U2777941) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    Shame on the silly trouts (whatever their age!) for being so hasty - I hope their words come back to haunt them when they're older and creakier!!

    Report message46

  • Message 97

    , in reply to message 94.

    Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    I am now going to browse mumsnet as it sounds fascinating! 

    ooo, Scarlett, you bitter twisted odd childless person, you! Didn't you know that you're not allowed to look at Mumsnet if you're not a mum!

    Report message47

  • Message 98

    , in reply to message 97.

    Posted by smeesue (U5496649) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    I'm a mum and wild horses couldn't drag me there!

    Report message48

  • Message 99

    , in reply to message 97.

    Posted by Loopy_ Lou (U10913539) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    Didn't you know that you're not allowed to look at Mumsnet if you're not a mum! 

    Has anyone said that?

    Report message49

  • Message 100

    , in reply to message 76.

    Posted by Spartacus (U14243804) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    Why do you browse Mumsnet? It's not a place I have ever set eyes upon and I am a mum. Red, once again, you do sound terribly, terribly bitter and resentful of young people and children. I worry for you.  I couldn't disagree with you more.  And I agree with you wholeheartedly Mrs PPG..

    Report message50

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