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Don't do it, Jamie!

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Messages: 1 - 50 of 51
  • Message 1. 

    Posted by DigAndDelve (U13793022) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    Did I hear Jamie planning to mix up kitchen scraps for the hens? He should read this, first. The feeding to farmed animals of kitchen waste is

    "prohibited under Animal By-Products legislation, in order to control the potential introduction and spread of major exotic notifiable diseases, such as Foot and Mouth Disease (FMD), Classical Swine Fever (CSF) / African Swine Fever, Swine Vesicular Disease, Newcastle Disease and Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza (HPAI). ... egetables are included, as vegetable peelings may be contaminated with raw meat products during preparation in the kitchen e.g. the sink. ... it is very important that no kitchen scraps are fed to our domestic poultry."

    Cooking the scraps does not ensure that all harmful bacteria and viruses are killed.

    Do the SWs not know this, or are they plotting for Jamie to be the cause of another Ambridge food hygiene scandal and the slaughtering of the entire flock?

    Report message1

  • Message 2

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Pahnda (U14681704) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    Josh

    Report message2

  • Message 3

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by cheltenhamjess (U14661585) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    Well I never knew that. I don't keep hens so I guess there's no need to know, but I thought one of the benefits was that you could feed them scraps?

    Report message3

  • Message 4

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Lilians twin (U4487710) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    So if instead of peeling the spuds, boiling the peelings, and feeding them to the hens, which is what my MIL always did, I cook the spuds whole and eat the what would have been the peelings, will I get all or any of Foot and Mouth Disease (FMD), Classical Swine Fever (CSF) / African Swine Fever, Swine Vesicular Disease, Newcastle Disease and Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza (HPAI)?

    Report message4

  • Message 5

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by bob larkin (U2297537) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    It does seem rather OTT - I suppose it depends what the scraps are.

    I don't keep hens but do put out scraps for garden birds, which they seem to enjoy (as do local cats).

    Am I

    (i) a criminal
    (ii) killing off wildlife?

    Report message5

  • Message 6

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by Skyebird (U14198692) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    The OP is entirely correct . I posted earlier about it but the OP has found the correct regulation..

    Report message6

  • Message 7

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by steenbok running away (U15070570) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    Does this legislation only apply to chickens on a "real" farm, or does it include private individuals who keep 3 or 4 as pets?

    I'm in neither category; just curious.

    Report message7

  • Message 8

    , in reply to message 7.

    Posted by Skyebird (U14198692) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    It applies to all hens.

    Report message8

  • Message 9

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by Miriam (U15588740) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    It does seem rather OTT - I suppose it depends what the scraps are.

    I don't keep hens but do put out scraps for garden birds, which they seem to enjoy (as do local cats).

    Am I

    (i) a criminal
    (ii) killing off wildlife? 
    You are definitely not (i) because garden birds are not farmed animals or domestic poultry.

    I hope you are not (ii) either, because I also feed the birds in my garden.

    Report message9

  • Message 10

    , in reply to message 8.

    Posted by Lilians twin (U4487710) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    Well at least this will finally put an end to my husband's yearning to keep a few chicken at the top of the garden. There is no way he'll buy all their food when he grew up with chicken living on boiled spud peelings, outer leaves of sprouts, left over bread and all the worms they could scavenge. Their eggs tasted so good though.

    Report message10

  • Message 11

    , in reply to message 10.

    Posted by borchesterbouncer (U14738918) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    We kept hens up to eleven years ago and I always cooked the peelings for them, had no idea I was breaking the law or is it a " new" one?

    Report message11

  • Message 12

    , in reply to message 9.

    Posted by Skyebird (U14198692) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    It could be argued that since wild birds would pass infection to domestic fowl ,it is unwise to put out kitchen scraps even if it is not actually illegal.

    Report message12

  • Message 13

    , in reply to message 12.

    Posted by Miriam (U15588740) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    It could be argued that since wild birds would pass infection to domestic fowl ,it is unwise to put out kitchen scraps even if it is not actually illegal.  In fact most of what I give my birds is not "kitchen scraps", it is mainly specially bought bird food or bread.

    Report message13

  • Message 14

    , in reply to message 11.

    Posted by Skyebird (U14198692) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    It has been in force at least since 2005 when I started with hens. I know people who ignore it and it is unlikely that one would be prosecuted for it but if you found you were the cause of a bird flu out break you might feel sorry. I know that it seems unlikely but an outbreak of serious disease would be devastating.

    Reference TA, Haley could lose her registration as an egg producer which would mean she could not sell her eggs.

    Report message14

  • Message 15

    , in reply to message 13.

    Posted by Skyebird (U14198692) on Thursday, 7th February 2013

    If the bird food does not enter the kitchen it's fine.

    Report message15

  • Message 16

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by steenbok running away (U15070570) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    It has been in force at least since 2005 when I started with hens. I know people who ignore it and it is unlikely that one would be prosecuted for it but if you found you were the cause of a bird flu out break you might feel sorry. I know that it seems unlikely but an outbreak of serious disease would be devastating.

    Reference TA, Haley could lose her registration as an egg producer which would mean she could not sell her eggs. 
    Well, I knew nothing of this. Carp, I always fancied half a dozen scrap-fed egg-layers.

    Do the SWs know, or their agricultural advisor? No doubt we'll find out soon enough...

    Report message16

  • Message 17

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by freerangepiglings (U14234154) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    They specified that they were not kitchen scraps. Josh went out to buy the necessaries in his lunch hour.

    He has also agreed to check with Hayley & Neil before feeding them to them.

    Report message17

  • Message 18

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Sturmey Archer (U2328688) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    Do the SWs not know this… 

    …they are simply keeping true to their form of doing very little or no research for a potential story-line, and since the "Mass-Poisoning" box has already been checked off (see ClarriE.coli-luv story), and as the Production Team doesn't seem to use the services of a Continuity Editor, I somehow doubt that another food-hygiene scandal is on the cards.

    - sa

    Report message18

  • Message 19

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by empress frederick (U13830138) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    Did I hear Jamie planning to mix up kitchen scraps for the hens? He should read this, first. The feeding to farmed animals of kitchen waste is

    "prohibited under Animal By-Products legislation, in order to control the potential introduction and spread of major exotic notifiable diseases, such as Foot and Mouth Disease (FMD), Classical Swine Fever (CSF) / African Swine Fever, Swine Vesicular Disease, Newcastle Disease and Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza (HPAI). ... egetables are included, as vegetable peelings may be contaminated with raw meat products during preparation in the kitchen e.g. the sink. ... it is very important that no kitchen scraps are fed to our domestic poultry."

    Cooking the scraps does not ensure that all harmful bacteria and viruses are killed.

    Do the SWs not know this, or are they plotting for Jamie to be the cause of another Ambridge food hygiene scandal and the slaughtering of the entire flock?
     
    I am just amazed that there ARE any veg peelings in Brookfield kitchen bin.
    Can you use Pizza scraps to feed chickens?

    Report message19

  • Message 20

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by dickie (U2267358) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    The fact that there is a law designed to prevent this does not mean that Josh is not doing it!

    Report message20

  • Message 21

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    Reference TA, Haley could lose her registration as an egg producer which would mean she could not sell her eggs. 
    Exactly (or "eggsactly") - if you are selling eggs, you have to keep and feed them to legal standards - it's a bit different if you're keeping your own hens and eating the eggs yourself, or giving them away.

    (It's just like, for example, jam - I make my own, and give some away; I re-use "pretty" jars, wash and sterilise them in the microwave, but if I were selling jam, I shouldn't do this.)

    Report message21

  • Message 22

    , in reply to message 21.

    Posted by Ambridge Forever Frittering (U5978873) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    I'm fairly sure that Ruth said to check with Neil and Hayley, so it COULD be all right. OTOH, Josh is an Archer, so he might just decide not to bother. On the OTHER other hand, this could yet be the ecoli SL we were robbed of last time, since this time it will be the Carter/Tuckers involved rather than the Teflon Archers.

    If the SWs do know about all this, we could be set up for a very juicy SL indeed as all the ramifications unfold. A-n-d it could prove that you don't need an extremely lame affair to spice things up.

    Report message22

  • Message 23

    , in reply to message 22.

    Posted by Ambridge Forever Frittering (U5978873) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    I forgot to say that, though I loved Nigel to bits ( though not as much as Sharpers, who could? ), I am still cross at the cavalier attitude towards one of his hawks making off with that favourite hen of Betty's - Ginger. Did he offer compensation or even an apology?

    Report message23

  • Message 24

    , in reply to message 23.

    Posted by zen cat cherintherye (U14877400) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    Josh said he looked it up on line - where surely he would have encountered warnings about the legislation?

    Well, I just googled "hens not laying", and the first site I looked at said:

    "Feeding scraps and left over food from the home is fine if kept to a very limited amount, (though most scrap feeding is banned by Defra, especially meat scraps)."

    That doesn't say "DON'T DO IT" in big red letters, nor does it define "a very limited amount".

    Jury still out on this one, IMO.

    Report message24

  • Message 25

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by dickie (U2267358) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    I am always wary when it is claimed that the law prevents something.

    I cannot easily find any legislative provision that has this effect: can someone point me to it, please?

    Report message25

  • Message 26

    , in reply to message 21.

    Posted by Skyebird (U14198692) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    This sums it up.

    animalhealth.defra.g...

    Report message26

  • Message 27

    , in reply to message 26.

    Posted by dickie (U2267358) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    It sums up what the legislation purportedly says, but where is the legislation?

    Report message27

  • Message 28

    , in reply to message 26.

    Posted by Pin o Chocolat (U2372386) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    We are a vegetarian household, no meat of any sort. No chance of contamination. Scraps go to chicks when appropriate.

    Report message28

  • Message 29

    , in reply to message 28.

    Posted by Skyebird (U14198692) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    Oh? No animal products? No milk? No butter?

    People can quibble all they like but those are the regulations for feeding any chickens whether you like them or not.

    Report message29

  • Message 30

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by Pin o Chocolat (U2372386) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    Vegetarian would mean no *animal*, though we do use milk. I can't see how it would ever get near veg scraps in my kitchen.

    I take your point about legislation.

    Report message30

  • Message 31

    , in reply to message 27.

    Posted by Skyebird (U14198692) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    www.legislation.gov....

    Report message31

  • Message 32

    , in reply to message 31.

    Posted by dickie (U2267358) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    Doubtless I'm being dense but I can't see anything in this SI which bears upon the feeding of food scraps to chickens.

    Report message32

  • Message 33

    , in reply to message 32.

    Posted by DigAndDelve (U13793022) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    Josh asked for the contents of the bucket under the sink.

    Report message33

  • Message 34

    , in reply to message 28.

    Posted by DigAndDelve (U13793022) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    Unless your household is vegan, then this restriction still applies.

    Report message34

  • Message 35

    , in reply to message 24.

    Posted by DigAndDelve (U13793022) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    Josh didn't say WHAT he had looked up online - there are still a lot of rubbish web sites "out there". It has just occurred to me that Josh might have found one of the web sites that reproduces received poultry management wisdom of 50-100 years ago: very interesting to read but quite a lot of it no longer allowed. Eg "caponising" cockerels with a pellet that contained a growth hormone used to be OK in my grandparents' lifetime but it isn't now.

    Also, if the hens have gone off lay, supplementing their feed with scraps will not put that right that if the cause is (a) red mite infestation, (b) moulting, (c) old age, or one of a number of other possible causes that he should eliminate first.

    DEFRA has spoken. The jury is not still out.

    You could try saying that you eat the hens' leftovers. Let me know how that goes ... smiley - smiley

    Report message35

  • Message 36

    , in reply to message 35.

    Posted by Lilians twin (U4487710) on Friday, 8th February 2013

    I used to help with caponising MIL's cockerels. You'd pick up a bit of the loose skin at the back of the neck and inject the pellet with a purpose designed implement. One year some of the ones we had already done got mixed up the those still needing doing. Inevitably some were caponised twice while 2 were completely missed and grew into fine (very noisy) cockerels.

    Report message36

  • Message 37

    , in reply to message 36.

    Posted by bob larkin (U2297537) on Saturday, 9th February 2013

    I can see what is behind this - the sort of pigswill argument I suppose.

    But ultimately it is absurd.

    If I gave a potato or apple to fowl to peck at it would be OK. If I peel same in my kitchen and then give them the peelings it is wrong.

    Crazy, unless you are looking at cross contamination from utensils, but OTOH the peelings have at least been washed.

    Report message37

  • Message 38

    , in reply to message 30.

    Posted by Borsetshire Blue (U2260326) on Saturday, 9th February 2013

    Vegetarian would mean no *animal*, though we do use milk. I can't see how it would ever get near veg scraps in my kitchen.

    I take your point about legislation.  

    But milk is an animal product, so is cheese, butter, eggs. If you have those in your home kitchen you must not feed any food scraps to any animals or poultry.

    Just because you can't see how milk etc could contaminate vegetables prepared at home it doesn't make it OK to ignore the regulations. Nobody can see a virus, but it doesn't mean it isn't being spread around the work surfaces and kitchen equipment you use.

    Report message38

  • Message 39

    , in reply to message 17.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Saturday, 9th February 2013

    They specified that they were not kitchen scraps. Josh went out to buy the necessaries in his lunch hour.  What Josh asked was, "Mum, is it all right if I take the food scraps from under the sink?" He was planning to use those, as well as the oats and wheat-bran he bought in his lunch-hour. Ruth offered him "plenty of veg peelings" and told him not to give hens the potato peelings raw.

    I think the editorial team have decided that Hayley and Neil no longer keep Betty's 250 hens! He wouldn't be able to afford to get special food for that many, and table scraps from one household wouldn't be enough to go round.

    I also think that the internet, where Josh said he got his information, in a lot of places doesn't say that you mustn't give hens table scraps. The first place I looked said, "Likewise, table scraps and greens can be provided as long as they are kept to a minimum and are not the sole source of food," for example, and in another place, "Chickens appreciate table scraps. They’ll eat most anything, from coffee grinds to stale toast to soggy green beans. Some things they won’t eat, and sometimes it’s a matter of personal preference. Mine don’t like raisins, and yet it’s a favorite treat for a friend’s flock." I doubt that Josh stopped to think whether the information he was getting on the internet came from the UK or the US, and it was not particularly obvious.

    I could find nothing specifically saying that hens off-lay were in need of table-scraps!

    Report message39

  • Message 40

    , in reply to message 38.

    Posted by shell-like (U2729210) on Saturday, 9th February 2013

    There can't be spreading without a vector. Setting the legislation aside, (which in our imagination we can), a reasonably intelligent adult can work out what is effective hygienic practice in the kitchen. If there is no such thing as effective hygiene -- i.e. guaranteed -- why is hygiene urged upon us in so many contexts?

    Report message40

  • Message 41

    , in reply to message 40.

    Posted by Borsetshire Blue (U2260326) on Saturday, 9th February 2013

    There can't be spreading without a vector. Setting the legislation aside, (which in our imagination we can), a reasonably intelligent adult can work out what is effective hygienic practice in the kitchen. If there is no such thing as effective hygiene -- i.e. guaranteed -- why is hygiene urged upon us in so many contexts?  The regulations are to protect the consumer. As a consumer I cannot distinguish between the homes with scrupulous kitchen hygiene and others.

    There is a house a few doors away from me that often has a sign outside saying "free range eggs for sale". I can see into their hen run and spot them putting down mixed scraps. I don't buy their eggs, so protect myself, but other consumers have the right to be protected by sensible regulations.

    Report message41

  • Message 42

    , in reply to message 41.

    Posted by DracoM1 (U14252039) on Saturday, 9th February 2013

    < I think the editorial team have decided that Hayley and Neil no longer keep Betty's 250 hens! He wouldn't be able to afford to get special food for that many, and table scraps from one household wouldn't be enough to go round.>

    CG

    Exactly my thought, plus how the heck could Jamie see to 250 hens before school? Or find enough food / buy enough oats etc for that many chickens?

    Erm............UCE or what?

    Report message42

  • Message 43

    , in reply to message 42.

    Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Saturday, 9th February 2013

    Dracs, the UCE thread beckons...
    www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...

    Report message43

  • Message 44

    , in reply to message 43.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Saturday, 9th February 2013

    More to the point a question in Notes and Queries about it, I think, because we have not been told the number of hens was reduced but we haven't been told that it wasn't.

    Report message44

  • Message 45

    , in reply to message 39.

    Posted by DigAndDelve (U13793022) on Saturday, 9th February 2013

    "I think the editorial team have decided that Hayley and Neil no longer keep Betty's 250 hens! "

    If they have 250 hens then they have to abide by DEFRA's rules. Anyone with a flock of 50 hens or more has to register with DEFRA.

    Another possible cause for free-range or garden hens being off-lay is rainy weather, I don't know why.

    Report message45

  • Message 46

    , in reply to message 45.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Saturday, 9th February 2013

    Surely since they sell the eggs they ought to abide by DEFRA rules anyhow?

    Report message46

  • Message 47

    , in reply to message 44.

    Posted by DracoM1 (U14252039) on Saturday, 9th February 2013

    More to the point a question in Notes and Queries about it, I think, because we have not been told the number of hens was reduced but we haven't been told that it wasn't.  OK, well, I've raised it in the wrong place then.

    Report message47

  • Message 48

    , in reply to message 47.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Saturday, 9th February 2013

    I have asked in N&Q, but answer came there none. I doubt there will be before next week in any case.

    It probably is a UCE, but unless we get some sort of answer about the hens we can't be absolutely certain, I suppose.

    Report message48

  • Message 49

    , in reply to message 48.

    Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Saturday, 9th February 2013

    Here's the link to your thread, CF.
    "The Carter/Tucker Hens"
    www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mb...

    Report message49

  • Message 50

    , in reply to message 48.

    Posted by DigAndDelve (U13793022) on Sunday, 10th February 2013

    I've just remembered an episode of TA broadcast some months ago that amused me so much because it seemed to indicate that the SW of this "everyday story of country folk" know really nothing about poultry.

    During the episode, two of the male characters were chatting amiably in a location evidently somewhere near the hens. You could tell they were near the hens because the soundtrack chosen for the background was of many hens ... doing their alarm call. The hens were yelling "fox! fox! fox!" but neither of the two men seemed to notice.

    Well, I thought it was funny ...

    Report message50

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