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Out on a limb but never mind

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Messages: 151 - 200 of 371
  • Message 151

    , in reply to message 150.

    Posted by Nemo399 (U14258777) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    Well, for a start I don't see Vicky as 'hysterical'. I think motherhood could be the making of her. And she's still youmg enough to see a child through to adult life. Secondly, I think she should take the risk of going through with the pregnancy. Her baby could very well be one of the many people with Down's syndrome who go on to live happy and fulfilled lives.

    As for "stroppy teenager"---hmm. Can't help comparing the young people with Down's syndrome I've known with certain so-called 'normal' teenagers.

    Report message1

  • Message 152

    , in reply to message 151.

    Posted by My Mum is turning in her grave (U13137565) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    As for "stroppy teenager"---hmm. Can't help comparing the young people with Down's syndrome I've known with certain so-called 'normal' teenagers.
     


    And that's really the point.
    I think many of us would hesitate about the prospect of dealing with *any* teenager in our 60s, 70s or 80s. especially if it was a first and only child.

    the idea that Vicky will be transformed by motherhood (a la Helen) is doubtful. She has had a life of being able to do exactly what she wants when she wants. Being a parent turns that life upside down. Mike knows that, even though he wasn't exactly hands-on first time around.

    I don't think either of them have the emoyional maturity to cope with late life parenthood. Mike realises this, Vicky doesn't.

    Report message2

  • Message 153

    , in reply to message 152.

    Posted by Nemo399 (U14258777) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    I disagree about Vicky. I think she's got what it takes to deal with this situation.

    Report message3

  • Message 154

    , in reply to message 153.

    Posted by PhyllisDoris (U2224329) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    I disagree about Vicky. I think she's got what it takes to deal with this situation.

     
    I'm not sure what it is that Vicky has done to demonstrate this.
    In a difficult situation, when things don't go the way she wants them to, I can't remember her doing anything other than get in a strop and get Mike to sort it out if he can.
    She also gets bored easily.

    Report message4

  • Message 155

    , in reply to message 151.

    Posted by Curmy (U10228939) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    Well, for a start I don't see Vicky as 'hysterical'. I think motherhood could be the making of her. And she's still youmg enough to see a child through to adult life. Secondly, I think she should take the risk of going through with the pregnancy. Her baby could very well be one of the many people with Down's syndrome who go on to live happy and fulfilled lives.

    As for "stroppy teenager"---hmm. Can't help comparing the young people with Down's syndrome I've known with certain so-called 'normal' teenagers.

     
    Yes, it'll be a very big risk too, Nemo because Mike may well not be there in another 15 years time & then she'll be coping by herself & probably living on benefits. I see no sign at all in her behaviour so far that Vicky is mature enough to cope with this baby .

    I found it tough enough in my 40's keeping my two 'normal' teenage daughters in line, when their father was working away from home for long periods. There's NO WAY I could have done it with one Downs Syndrome child when I was in my 60's , & I like to think I'm slightly more sensible than
    Vicky !

    Report message5

  • Message 156

    , in reply to message 151.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    Nemo, when you write Her baby could very well be one of the many people with Down's syndrome who go on to live happy and fulfilled lives.  do you actually have any figures about this? You also wrote Only 50% of children with Down's syndrome have heart defects, for example  so you must have *some* source of information -- I am trying to find out what proportion of people with Down's fall at which end of the spectrum, and I can't seem to find anything about it.

    Report message6

  • Message 157

    , in reply to message 155.

    Posted by buttercups (U15070949) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    Terminate and then foster or adopt a child with Special Needs!

    Report message7

  • Message 158

    , in reply to message 146.

    Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    Exxers - the child I was talking of did not have Downs. She was possibly (?) disabled because of birth problems and in any case amnio wasn't available ..

    What I was saying was that help was available but the selfish barsteward of a father wouldn't accept it ..

    The child always seemed happy BTW .. it was the mother who suffered.
    JPBS

    Report message8

  • Message 159

    , in reply to message 156.

    Posted by Lady Trudie Tilney Glorfindel Maldini (U2222312) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    This any use Chris?

    www.nhs.uk/Condition...

    Report message9

  • Message 160

    , in reply to message 159.

    Posted by My Mum is turning in her grave (U13137565) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    Rhat's very informative, Ems. I hope Mike and Vicky read it and then have thei discussion

    Report message10

  • Message 161

    , in reply to message 159.

    Posted by Bette (U2222559) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    Thanks for the link, ermitrude.

    Apart from a distant relative who is nearly 60 and has Alzheimer's (after, from what I gather, a pretty decent life), the only other person I know of personally with DS is at the lowest end of spectrum (and with multiple handicaps such as autism) and the family is in bits.

    Report message11

  • Message 162

    , in reply to message 23.

    Posted by FancyAnnie (U2673526) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    He/she will have severe heart problems and will die after a few days. I just don't think the SWs are capable of sustaining a story line such as this.


    I do hope you're wrong - I think this is potentially one of the best storylines for ages, and the baby, whatever challenges he/she brings, should become an essential and permanent part of Ambridge life.

    Report message12

  • Message 163

    , in reply to message 156.

    Posted by Nemo399 (U14258777) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    www.downs-syndrome.o...

    Report message13

  • Message 164

    , in reply to message 163.

    Posted by Froginasock (U14272821) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    Very interesting. No mention of abortion rates, and also my suspicion is that since the editorial team are working with the Down's association then it increases the odds that Vicky will carry to term. But, I could be wrong...

    Report message14

  • Message 165

    , in reply to message 164.

    Posted by anagramladysin (U14258840) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    This is still an amazingly good thread, with such honest and open debate and heartbreaking posts as well as challenging ones.
    As far as the fictional element goes, I assume that Vicky will have the child and Mike will suffer.
    Factually .... oh and there I falter.
    My second son was diagnosed with a chromosomal disorder -- an extra x -- at age 26. Klinefelter's Syndrome. Yes, no-one has heard of it.
    One of my students hanged himself eighteen months ago because of it.
    There was no test available 30 years ago.
    If there had been - and me at 31 and husband at 32 - it would in any case have been a different kettle of fish.
    Knowing what I know now -- I would still not have had an abortion. Though it has been hard -- for ex-husband, a little, and for me, a lot, and for my son ... well , this isn't finished yet. But every step of his way is hard.
    For those of you living through this, every good wish.
    xx ana

    Report message15

  • Message 166

    , in reply to message 164.

    Posted by Curmy (U10228939) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    I wonder why the Specialist said Downs Syndrome people aren't described as disabled, they're just differently normal. ? Is that what the Downs Association says ?

    I'm sorry, to be politically incorrect ,but what is the point in inferring they havn't got some form of disability .?

    Report message16

  • Message 167

    , in reply to message 166.

    Posted by Curmy (U10228939) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    "- I think this is potentially one of the best storylines for ages, and the baby, whatever challenges he/she brings, should become an essential and permanent part of Ambridge life."

    I do hope you're wrong Fancy Annie , I'm sorry but I'd feel I was being lectured to on how I should view Downs children .

    Why couldn't Nigel have survived but been in a wheelchair, ? that would have thrown up just as many "issues"

    Report message17

  • Message 168

    , in reply to message 136.

    Posted by barwick_green (U2668006) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    if she really wants this child should be prepared to do it without Mike  

    That's pretty much what she was saying, when talking about the furniture moving, wasn't it? 
    Good. Vapid Vickie can vamoose back where she came from and take this' ishoo' with her..

    Report message18

  • Message 169

    , in reply to message 167.

    Posted by Bette (U2222559) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    Why couldn't Nigel have survived but been in a wheelchair, ? that would have thrown up just as many "issues" 

    I /so/ agree with that. The production team really slipped up on that one.

    Report message19

  • Message 170

    , in reply to message 167.

    Posted by barwick_green (U2668006) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    "- I think this is potentially one of the best storylines for ages, and the baby, whatever challenges he/she brings, should become an essential and permanent part of Ambridge life."

    I do hope you're wrong Fancy Annie , I'm sorry but I'd feel I was being lectured to on how I should view Downs children .

    Why couldn't Nigel have survived but been in a wheelchair, ? that would have thrown up just as many "issues" 
    < ,"- I think this is potentially one of the best storylines for ages, and the baby, whatever challenges he/she brings, should become an essential and permanent part of Ambridge life." >

    It COULD have been but not with vapid bimbo Vickie and ignorant bully Mike as the parents; I wish the pair of them nothing but bad luck.

    Why not Will and Nic - who are trying for a baby - or have Keira develop some severe health related behavioral problems?

    Report message20

  • Message 171

    , in reply to message 170.

    Posted by Dailyfix (U14602649) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    "- I think this is potentially one of the best storylines for ages, and the baby, whatever challenges he/she brings, should become an essential and permanent part of Ambridge life."

    I do hope you're wrong Fancy Annie , I'm sorry but I'd feel I was being lectured to on how I should view Downs children .

    Why couldn't Nigel have survived but been in a wheelchair, ? that would have thrown up just as many "issues" 
    < ,"- I think this is potentially one of the best storylines for ages, and the baby, whatever challenges he/she brings, should become an essential and permanent part of Ambridge life." >

    It COULD have been but not with vapid bimbo Vickie and ignorant bully Mike as the parents; I wish the pair of them nothing but bad luck.

    Why not Will and Nic - who are trying for a baby - or have Keira develop some severe health related behavioral problems?  
    I was really shocked by a post from a social worker on the board saying that children with ADHD are harder to place than those with DS. It seems that ADHD has a much worse image problem than DS so perhaps Keira could have ADHD and be challenging but worth it like my ADHD family members? I imagine there would be lively debate about the issue on the MB with all the normal "it's their diet" or "an excuse for poor parenting" views aired. Posters seem fairly familiar with the positive sides of DS I doubt they would be so supportive of an ADHD SL.

    Report message21

  • Message 172

    , in reply to message 166.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    Curmers, zzI think the consultant said that "we tend not to use that word nowadays" abut "handicapped", didn't he? I don't remember his using the phrase "differently normal".

    He did say that "one way parents look at it is that it's different, not worse" -- was that what you were thinking of?

    Report message22

  • Message 173

    , in reply to message 172.

    Posted by Froginasock (U14272821) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    In my experience it is generally the "professionals" who use the pc language. Parents tend to be much more matter of fact.

    Report message23

  • Message 174

    , in reply to message 172.

    Posted by Curmy (U10228939) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    Yes your right Chris, , but why should the Consultant say instead of handicapped it's different, not worse ? I just don't understand that comment . I'm afraid there's a certain amount of sweeping potential problems under the carpet in this SL .

    It seems to me the words used to describe disabilities change every few years .

    As for the thought folks that Kiera should have ADHT, it's hard enough at the moment to put up with her constant grizzling & Emma moaning . If that was the SL I'd lose the will to live ! Can you imagine 18 years of whingeing til she left home ? !

    Report message24

  • Message 175

    , in reply to message 174.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    The two things were said on two different occasions, Curmers. On the first he said "we tend not to use that word nowadays" after Mike had said "handicapped; on the other, later in the conversation, he advised Mike that "one way parents look at it is that it's different, not worse".

    Report message25

  • Message 176

    , in reply to message 172.

    Posted by malizon (U10119599) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    Curmers, zzI think the consultant said that "we tend not to use that word nowadays" abut "handicapped", didn't he? I don't remember his using the phrase "differently normal".

    He did say that "one way parents look at it is that it's different, not worse" -- was that what you were thinking of? 
    Grrr! PC language does my nut. I use the word 'handicapped' - I think it sounds better than 'disabled'. Computer programming uses the word 'disabled' to refer to apps out of action.

    Report message26

  • Message 177

    , in reply to message 176.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    My father insisted that polio had handicapped him, not disabled him, for what that is worth.

    Report message27

  • Message 178

    , in reply to message 162.

    Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    the baby, whatever challenges he/she brings, should become an essential and permanent part of Ambridge life. 
    Like Lukas, or Helen, with no-one ever even commenting on their difference?

    Report message28

  • Message 179

    , in reply to message 178.

    Posted by Curmy (U10228939) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    Thanks Chris that's teach me not to listen to the repeat !

    " the baby, whatever challenges he/she brings, should become an essential and permanent part of Ambridge life. "


    Please Noooooooo !! Why should the listeners have to be preached to for years about how they view people with disabilities?

    You can bet the first poster on here who dared to make a slighlty negative comment will be hounded off the board !

    I agree, I don't see why saying someone is handicapped is different from saying they're disabled .

    It's like children who are described as "challenging " when really half of them are just little horrors !

    Report message29

  • Message 180

    , in reply to message 123.

    Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    OI, is he able to sign? I have seen some 'miraculous' changes in non-verbal adults once they had a means of communication. 

    No - not got the abstract conceptualisation required.

    He has some receptive language but little.

    Report message30

  • Message 181

    , in reply to message 171.

    Posted by damsonjamqueen (U2828847) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    I have a son with Down's and a five year older son with ADHD, I can tell you who was the more difficult of the two, the older one. He's now ADD and he has caused me more worry and angst than anything that the Down's syndrome lad could produce. I can tell you, I wouldn't have had either aborted.

    The reason the DSA is so upbeat is because when they first started out they used to send out a very depressing leaflet setting out clearly all the medical problems pertaining to Down's. They realised their mistake, and now they give some of the happy things as well.

    We none of us know what will happen to our children in the future, so how is it possible to predict what a disabled child's future may be?

    Damson

    Report message31

  • Message 182

    , in reply to message 181.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    It certainly isn't easy to work out chances if people don't/won't/can't give you honest answers to simple questions about probabilities.

    I can find nothing (apart from JPBS' interesting statement that 25% of children with Down's are able to go to mainstream school, thus suggesting that 75% are not) to tell me how many of the live births of people with Down's fall at which end of the spectrum from "IQ65, live to 60, no problems with most of the things like heart, lungs and bowel, early to learn and be toilet trained and the rest of it" through to "manages to stay alive at birth and for more than a week thereafter".

    How could I possibly make an informed decision about making myself responsible for producing (making to be alive) a baby/child/adult with who-knew-what chance of a reasonable quality of life -- let's say a quality of life I would find acceptable myself -- or of being in pain for a bit and then dying having got nowhere much? I would want a lot more data than was offered to Miek and Vicky, that's for sure.

    Yes, I know that it is a toss-up having a child ever, but in this case there is a *lot* of information that ought to be available, because these people are very thoroughly investigated, and are part of the system all their lives chances are -- to withold that information seems to me unreasonable.

    Report message32

  • Message 183

    , in reply to message 181.

    Posted by Bethulia (U5765180) on Monday, 3rd September 2012

    I was a fan of TA for many years but lost patience with it a few years ago. However, I can sense myself being sucked back in again by this SL. I have a 4 year old daughter with DS who is starting at mainstream school tomorrow! She was born with a hole in her heart, had one operation as a baby and now has a normally functioning heart. She is full of beans and does her best to keep her middle-aged parents on our toes!

    I can't comment on Vicky, but I do fear that soap SWs do not have the patience for long running problems. At the time I was listening, Ed Grundy had gone missing and developed a drink problem, but once they had 'done' that issue, he miraculously recovered. Will they really want to run the day to day issues of living with a child with learning disabilities and possibly health problems for the foreseeable future of the programme? There's not enough sensation in that. But I would hate them to let Vicky have the baby and then for it to meet some convenient fate to bring the SL to an end.

    Report message33

  • Message 184

    , in reply to message 182.

    Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    No - I didn't say 25% are "able" - in the sense of being able to cope with the school. I said 25% are *allowed* .. and as I made clear the schools are reluctant to accept children with DS.

    The info came from a Guardian article:

    www.guardian.co.uk/e...

    Unfortunately too - parents are put off by children being bullied and this apparently happens most in secondary school. This shoudn't surprise us really for childen are bullied for the slightest of reasons ..
    JPBS

    Report message34

  • Message 185

    , in reply to message 181.

    Posted by Dailyfix (U14602649) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    Fascinating post Damson you are in a position to answer some of the questions this SL has raised for me. Do you find that society has more negativity towards your elder or younger son? How much do you think awareness needs to be raised about DS? In my family we have a lot of ADHD I observe that the interaction between the condition and the persons underlying personality is crucial. A more sunny and sociable personality can mitigate how people react whereas moody and less sociable personalities find the world much more difficult. Would you say this is a factor with your sons?
    If there was a test for ADHD I would not be interested in it as there is not much to be done, you find out soon enough and there are positives like boundless energy and curiosity which lasts a lifetime and a reduced need for sleep although that really makes the early years tough. I would never consider termination for ADHD even at Vicky's age as the child will not be dependant long term.

    Report message35

  • Message 186

    , in reply to message 185.

    Posted by My Mum is turning in her grave (U13137565) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    If they gave Kiera or Will amd Nick's baby ADHD, it would compound the popular view that it's just due to poor parenting. I was going to suggest helen's baby but that would be equally as negative.

    I will confess I harbored very similar thoughts until I read parents' stories on this board!
    (and me a right-on pinko liberal lefty )

    So far as handicapped/disabled/differently abled is concerned I prefer to use 'person with a disability' which can of course be extended to 'disabilities' if an individual has more than one. that way the focus is on the person not the disability.

    Report message36

  • Message 187

    , in reply to message 182.

    Posted by Lady Trudie Tilney Glorfindel Maldini (U2222312) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    It certainly isn't easy to work out chances if people don't/won't/can't give you honest answers to simple questions about probabilities. 



    Chris I'm forgetting which thread i posted this on before so apologies if you saw it earlier:

    www.nhs.uk/condition...

    The 'symptoms' and 'complications' tabs give some figures.

    However i don't think it is easy to give answers to 'simple questions about probabilities'. A Down's syndrome child may be at the higher end of the IQ scale yet have serious bowel problems, or be less intellectually able yet physically very unimpaired - all the factors are variable so giving prospective parents an accurate prediction of every possible outcome would involve some pretty complex maths.

    Report message37

  • Message 188

    , in reply to message 152.

    Posted by Auntie Molly (U14110968) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    As for "stroppy teenager"---hmm. Can't help comparing the young people with Down's syndrome I've known with certain so-called 'normal' teenagers.
     


    And that's really the point.
    I think many of us would hesitate about the prospect of dealing with *any* teenager in our 60s, 70s or 80s. especially if it was a first and only child.

    the idea that Vicky will be transformed by motherhood (a la Helen) is doubtful. She has had a life of being able to do exactly what she wants when she wants. Being a parent turns that life upside down. Mike knows that, even though he wasn't exactly hands-on first time around.

    I don't think either of them have the emoyional maturity to cope with late life parenthood. Mike realises this, Vicky doesn't. 
    I think Vicky would cope very well while the child is at helpless infant stage but less well as it becomes a toddler with a will of it's own and a child who won't do as they're told.

    Report message38

  • Message 189

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by lreecesmith (U15396629) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    This is a really hard storyline & whatever their decision is there is no right or wrong.
    I know i have been there & done that.

    Report message39

  • Message 190

    , in reply to message 99.

    Posted by roastcumin (U2333842) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    c-b, I think that being economical with the truth is deemed acceptable when people deem that it is in the best interests of those they do not tell the truth.

    To quibble by saying "Oh, I don't know the exact figure to several places, so I will say 'I don't know' and not bother to give the information that was actually wanted" is dishonest. But obviously since the person saying this knows more about two people he's never seen before in his life than they know about themselves, that's ok.

    He didn't lie, he just didn't tell the truth, is not an acceptable defence in the case of an accusation of perjury, as far as I know. 

    Medical ethicists recommend always telling the truth,using professional judgement as to how it is told. Bad news should not be given gratuitously but when people are ready to hear it, which is usually when they ask questions.

    This consultant failed to do this. He was evasive about the numbers choosing termination while telling Vicky that more older mothers continued the pregnancy. He sidestepped Mike's concerns about the future. He gave them very little relevant information to help them make an informed choice about continuing the pregnancy and it was not clear if any counselling would be provided later.

    In my view, not very professional and with a hint of an agenda.

    Report message40

  • Message 191

    , in reply to message 190.

    Posted by My Mum is turning in her grave (U13137565) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    I think yesterday's coversation between mike and Roy suggests more was said by the consultant than was broadcast. Which suggests that the agenda was that of the sw/editor/team/BBC*

    Delete as wished according to individual prejudices.

    Report message41

  • Message 192

    , in reply to message 169.

    Posted by Annie-Lou (U4502268) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    Why couldn't Nigel have survived but been in a wheelchair, ? that would have thrown up just as many "issues" 

    I /so/ agree with that. The production team really slipped up on that one.  
    Thats exactly what I thought was going to happen! In the end it was a cop-out.

    Report message42

  • Message 193

    , in reply to message 181.

    Posted by Annie-Lou (U4502268) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    I have a son with Down's and a five year older son with ADHD, I can tell you who was the more difficult of the two, the older one. He's now ADD and he has caused me more worry and angst than anything that the Down's syndrome lad could produce. I can tell you, I wouldn't have had either aborted.

    The reason the DSA is so upbeat is because when they first started out they used to send out a very depressing leaflet setting out clearly all the medical problems pertaining to Down's. They realised their mistake, and now they give some of the happy things as well.

    We none of us know what will happen to our children in the future, so how is it possible to predict what a disabled child's future may be?

    Damson 
    Fantastic post Damson! Especially the last sentence. I find it odd the the fictional consultant and the DSA have both been comdemned by posters for not being relentlessly negative. Preparing people for something like this must be done gently so they won't just be overwhelmed. There's only so much you can take in at one time.

    (I also think its odd that so many people seem to feel M&V's decision should be based on "what do other poeple do?", surely thats the last thing that should influence them?)

    Report message43

  • Message 194

    , in reply to message 192.

    Posted by DracoM1 (U14252039) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    Their explanation was that falling from that height, there was not a chance he would have survived.

    Mind you, the epi's sfx had him falling about as far as from the top of the Eiffel Tower. Reminded me of those gothic sfx in Dick Barton or The Goon Show.

    Report message44

  • Message 195

    , in reply to message 191.

    Posted by Annie-Lou (U4502268) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    I think yesterday's coversation between mike and Roy suggests more was said by the consultant than was broadcast. Which suggests that the agenda was that of the sw/editor/team/BBC*

    Delete as wished according to individual prejudices. 
    Errr...I hate to break it to you but there's only whats in the script (because its fiction). There was no real life consultation which was subsequently edited by the Beeb! So of course any "agenda" (if there is one) comes from the writers/editors. Who else?

    Report message45

  • Message 196

    , in reply to message 195.

    Posted by DracoM1 (U14252039) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    And that sketchy consultant scene was a dead ringer for the so-called vetting of TC over her bought baby. NONE of the most significant things about TC's well-documented and iffy past made any appearance at all either. So the team have 'form' on the most crucial medico-ethical decisions in TA.

    Report message46

  • Message 197

    , in reply to message 195.

    Posted by RAFromSw (U14574822) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    ,,,,,,,,,I find it odd the the fictional consultant and the DSA have both been comdemned by posters for not being relentlessly negative.,,,,,,,,,,

    I think i am one of them, howeer I am not condemning them for not being relentlessly negative. I was condemning them for unremittingly positive. There are plenty of RL posts all over the boards at present from parents, or people who know parents, who clearly have very serious issues and problems, few of which are mentioned in the DA literature or govt.

    As Chris pointed out above, as a potential parent I'd like to know a lot more, and find the views of those who decided to terminate, and find the views of parents who found it hard. What about the 75% who don't attend mainstream schools - what happens to them? I couldn't easily find out, and theres peny of other issues


    I am sure that preant of DS offspring, having brought them up for years, would rarely say that they wish they'd been aborted. After all they will have a strong bond and relationship forged though years of upbringing. However, give them a hard headed choice, prior to birth with a realistic view of their future lives and they may be much better informed to take a less emotional decision.

    Report message47

  • Message 198

    , in reply to message 184.

    Posted by malizon (U10119599) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    No - I didn't say 25% are "able" - in the sense of being able to cope with the school. I said 25% are *allowed* .. and as I made clear the schools are reluctant to accept children with DS.

    The info came from a Guardian article:

    www.guardian.co.uk/e...

    Unfortunately too - parents are put off by children being bullied and this apparently happens most in secondary school. This shoudn't surprise us really for childen are bullied for the slightest of reasons ..
    JPBS
     
    Quite. On that basis, I should have been aborted! However, I very much doubt a child with DS being bullied will receive the same cretinous advice I did: 'ignore them, perhaps you're too senstive blah de blah de ****ing blah'

    Report message48

  • Message 199

    , in reply to message 195.

    Posted by My Mum is turning in her grave (U13137565) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    I think yesterday's coversation between mike and Roy suggests more was said by the consultant than was broadcast. Which suggests that the agenda was that of the sw/editor/team/BBC*

    Delete as wished according to individual prejudices. 
    Errr...I hate to break it to you but there's only whats in the script (because its fiction). There was no real life consultation which was subsequently edited by the Beeb! So of course any "agenda" (if there is one) comes from the writers/editors. Who else? 
    I *know* that! [sigh]


    I have posted elsethread that Nigel's fall was a missed opportunity. He didn't have to fall from the roof - he could have fallen downstairs with the suspicision that david accidently pushed him. Nigel in a wheelchair might also have illustrated the fact that all the money in the world doesn't necessarily compensate for the physical and psychological effects of disability. Plus of course hedidn't live in Ambridge and thus we wouldn't expect to hear about him from other villagers, whereas Vicky and Mike, although not Archers, are central characters in the village (if not TA). V&M's child should be a topic of conversation on a regular basis over the next 50 years but I'm willing to bet it won't be. (not that I'll be around to pick up my winnings)

    Report message49

  • Message 200

    , in reply to message 193.

    Posted by malizon (U10119599) on Tuesday, 4th September 2012

    I have a son with Down's and a five year older son with ADHD, I can tell you who was the more difficult of the two, the older one. He's now ADD and he has caused me more worry and angst than anything that the Down's syndrome lad could produce. I can tell you, I wouldn't have had either aborted.

    The reason the DSA is so upbeat is because when they first started out they used to send out a very depressing leaflet setting out clearly all the medical problems pertaining to Down's. They realised their mistake, and now they give some of the happy things as well.

    We none of us know what will happen to our children in the future, so how is it possible to predict what a disabled child's future may be?

    Damson 
    Fantastic post Damson! Especially the last sentence. I find it odd the the fictional consultant and the DSA have both been comdemned by posters for not being relentlessly negative. Preparing people for something like this must be done gently so they won't just be overwhelmed. There's only so much you can take in at one time.

    (I also think its odd that so many people seem to feel M&V's decision should be based on "what do other poeple do?", surely thats the last thing that should influence them?)  
    Haha!

    Consultant: Other people tend to go stark raving mad, strip off and run round the garden crying...

    Vicky: Maybe that's what we should Mike.....Mike?

    Cut to Mike starkas in the garden crying!

    Report message50

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