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Poor poor Vicky

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Messages: 1 - 50 of 151
  • Message 1. 

    Posted by Threeblack drapedwellsofmyown (U5254306) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    A much wanted baby and she is being pressured

    I really feel for her

    Report message1

  • Message 2

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Stickings-90 (U14739742) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    The SW obviously want us to see that to have a Downs child is utterly selfish as they are considered a drain on societies dwindling resources.

    Vicky will have a termination at Mike's insistence and he will be hailed as a hero.

    After all disabled people to some are an embarrassment that they believe should be got rid of, because we are all seen as work-shy scroungers on benefit.

    Report message2

  • Message 3

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by cathyslater (U2447474) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    I agree with you 100% . There really is a very negative attitude to disability compared with the positive attitude to race and sexuality issues from the SW

    Report message3

  • Message 4

    , in reply to message 3.

    Posted by borsetshirebee (U15362979) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    I agree with you 100% . There really is a very negative attitude to disability compared with the positive attitude to race and sexuality issues from the SW  Maybe you are right there but don't you think at Mike and Vicky's age it would be irresponsible to go ahead and have a Downs child.? I am afraid I do.

    Report message4

  • Message 5

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Earldunda (U14196337) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    A much wanted baby and she is being pressured

    I really feel for her  
    I'm sure Vickii would like to have a baby, but this was an accident and totally unplanned, and her being 46 may pose problems about the health of the child.

    Even so Mike is the last person to provide her with any support- the stock idiot old fashioned male.

    The fact that he himself is disabled in an accident never seems to cause him any thought.

    Report message5

  • Message 6

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Polly Tunnel (U1530077) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    The SW obviously want us to see that to have a Downs child is utterly selfish as they are considered a drain on societies dwindling resources. 

    Are you a SW Stickings because if not I really do not know where you got that idea from. We don't even know whether the baby has Downs let alone whether the Tuckers will decide to terminate the pregnancy if the child does. All Mike has said is that he wants to be prepared if necessary.
    Even if they did decide to terminate the pregnancy why assume it's anything to do with "societies dwindling resources". As far as I am concerned it would be a personal decision because the child's parents didn't feel capable of bringing up a baby with Downs for whatever reason.

    Report message6

  • Message 7

    , in reply to message 3.

    Posted by Brandi (U15110582) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    I agree with you 100% . There really is a very negative attitude to disability compared with the positive attitude to race and sexuality issues from the SW  very well said Thank you! Cathyslater.

    Report message7

  • Message 8

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by cathyslater (U2447474) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    irresponsible to whom? to "society"? or to the child.
    The child I am sure would prefer to be born and Vicki is not that old. She will be 60 when the child is 14.
    Mike I agree is somewhat old.

    Report message8

  • Message 9

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Dora Pandle (U14741938) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    I don't agree that giving a character a point of view means that's what any or all of the scriptwriters think.

    Report message9

  • Message 10

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Mild at heart (U14639665) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    Didn't seem like that to me, Stickings. I thought that the Mike-Vicki storyline tonight was well-written and well acted, and am glad that it's being tackled. I suppose it can't please everyone because either the baby will / won't have something wrong and they will / won't terminate and all of those options open up different debates.

    Report message10

  • Message 11

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by charmingAnnielynn (U11952070) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    I think it's very brave of Vicky and Mike to be going through the test, and giving careful thought, to whether they'll be having a child that is disabled. To me it doesn't mean that they think a less-than-perfect child should be gotten rid of, it implies that they recognize that as the parents, they need to be thinking - right from the very beginning - about how their child's life may turn out. And that included the possible scenario of a child that may never be able to live independently, and how that may be impacted by his/her parents' advanced age. Perhaps, if they do find they're going to have a Down's child, their next step will be to talk to the family about how they don't know at this point how much care this child may require in the future, and see how Brenda and Roy feel about it. It's possible they may all feel happy to enjoy the new addition to the family, and the grown-up kids are totally comfortable with stepping in to take over as carers when Mike and Vicky die someday , should that be needed, or maybe Mike and Vicky will have a discussion about what sort of arrangements they'd need to make to look after their child in the future if Roy and Brenda are not comfortable taking that responsibility.

    Report message11

  • Message 12

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Poster Formerly Known As (U14270464) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    The SW obviously want us to see that to have a Downs child is utterly selfish as they are considered a drain on societies dwindling resources.

    Vicky will have a termination at Mike's insistence and he will be hailed as a hero.

    After all disabled people to some are an embarrassment that they believe should be got rid of, because we are all seen as work-shy scroungers on benefit. 
    I don't feel like the scripting writers are trying to do that at all. In no way do I get the impression that I am being force fed the opinions of the writers.

    I think they are showing us how MIKE feels about it. Which is very conflicted, as he was clearly already unsure about the baby in the first place. And they are showing us how VICKY feels, which is that she wants the baby whatever.

    The storyline has only just begun - how about we wait and see what happens?

    Report message12

  • Message 13

    , in reply to message 9.

    Posted by JudithL (U14272244) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    It's the "ticky box" thing again, isn't it?
    The SWs have dealt with Helen's turkey baster baby, Kate's marriage to a black African, and subsequent mixed race children, Ian and Adam's partnership, Harry's sexuality, and all of these have been presented as wonderful things. No-one in Ambridge has uttered more than a brief criticism, if that.
    So the next ticky box is disability. They could have allowed Nigel to survive the fall and be in a wheelchair, but they didn't. So now we have the possibility of a child with Downs, and Everyone knows that it's much better to have an abortion, don't they? (At least that's what the SWs probably think.)
    Yes, Vicky is being pressured to have the amniocentesis, just as she'll be pressured to have an abortion if the baby has Downs. That, I fear, is what happens in RL. And we're expected to agree with this because of Vicky and Mike's age. Poor Vicky.

    Report message13

  • Message 14

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by Lee Shore (U14673711) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    I think it is a case of not knowing the degree of disability. Vicki is mid 40's her is mid 60's(?) so if they have a child that is seriously disabled then who is going to be able to nuture and care for it in say 15-20 years time.

    Our first child was still born but was dreadfully disabled and there is not a day that goes by that i do not think of her and who she might have been. Some days i have a little weep over it then think of the three healthy ones we have and the pleasure they have given and now the first grandchild on the way fills my heart with with more love and happiness.

    We have been lucky but I fear the show we are listening to is not to go down that route and a drama is to be played out and all the angst and guilt and heartbreak that a disbaled child will bring. I think it will outweigh and joy that such a child will bring but that is the way drama can be made more gripping.

    M & V are not young and downs children can be very demanding and as they reach adulthood can be strong both in mind and physique. Mike will not be able to cope and in 20 years nor will Vicki. If the child is unable to look after itself then the burden will fall on Brenda and Roy and neither of them seem particularly understanding so the likely outcome will be some sort of institution.

    Some friends of ours recently placed their child in a caring institution because of her physicality. It is a wonderful place and the child receives the proper stimulation and companionship and care that two working parents cannot always give. Initially there was an awful wrench but as the child quickly adapted and was soon happy in the new surroundings thyey were able to relax and their visits are always joyful occasions.

    There is going to be a battle both on air and here between the right to choose and the anti-abortion camps as the signals get bigger and plainer and the time to make the choice gets nearer.

    We didn't have to make the choice, nature did it for us. I think because of our experience we might not listen for the next few months until this is all over.

    Report message14

  • Message 15

    , in reply to message 13.

    Posted by Dora Pandle (U14741938) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    I think that the opinions that both Mike and Vicky have given so far are perfectly consistent with their characters. Vicky has already said that she wants the baby but she can't do it alone. I really don't believe for a minute that the whole production team think like Mike.

    Report message15

  • Message 16

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    Thinking of your daughter Lee.

    Report message16

  • Message 17

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by Dora Pandle (U14741938) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    I'm very sorry to hear that Lee. It looks as if this SL may be difficult for you whatever direction it takes.

    Report message17

  • Message 18

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by Digitalis lividus et niger (U8605497) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    I do hope Vicky's emotions will be portrayed sympathetically. I can imagine that she will want the child, handicapped or not, and she will be in no state to be logical about it. If the pregnancy is terminated, she will always wonder 'what' she and Mike would have produced, in the same way that women who have never conceived or who have miscarried do. If she 'is allowed' to go full term, her last weeks of pregnancy will be overshadowed by the Question. These are the first tears I've shed for Vicky, whom I've always disliked, but now I really feel for her, and for all women whose hopes of motherhood have been dashed in any way.

    Dig

    Report message18

  • Message 19

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by Athena Ergane (U14927530) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    Thank you for sharing your story, Lee.
    It is always difficult when a strand of a serial comes too close to home.

    I think it is a case of not knowing the degree of disability. Vicki is mid 40's her is mid 60's(?) so if they have a child that is seriously disabled then who is going to be able to nuture and care for it in say 15-20 years time. 
    M & V are not young and downs children can be very demanding and as they reach adulthood can be strong both in mind and physique. Mike will not be able to cope and in 20 years nor will Vicki. If the child is unable to look after itself then the burden will fall on Brenda and Roy and neither of them seem particularly understanding so the likely outcome will be some sort of institution. 
    I remember some 50 years ago on holiday with my parents visiting friends of theirs who had a Downs son. Their neighbour took him to her house so the parents could have some peace to entertain. I think he was about 10/12 and very strong so guiding him away from something he wanted to do was getting difficult. I do know that they took the decision to let their older daughter go to boarding school. I didn't know her so have no idea if she was as happy with the plan as they said.
    I presume he must have finally gone into some sort of residential care as they were killed in a plane crash when their daughter was in her early 20s.

    Report message19

  • Message 20

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by Threeblack drapedwellsofmyown (U5254306) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    The heartbreak of the What Ifs stay forever with both parents

    I feel for both but a loving generous woman like Vicky will be torn to pieces

    I am glad Lynda is her friend as Lynda is so kind herself.....

    Report message20

  • Message 21

    , in reply to message 18.

    Posted by begur (U15332337) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    Vicky was one of the final straws that stopped me listening to TA after being a fan for years. I catch the occasional episode and i caught tonight's. I too was impressed by the emotion which was portrayed and felt real sympathy for Vicky. I think this SL will be thought-provoking whichever way it goes.

    Begur

    Report message21

  • Message 22

    , in reply to message 18.

    Posted by Wilmet (U14697212) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    I do hope Vicky's emotions will be portrayed sympathetically. I can imagine that she will want the child, handicapped or not, and she will be in no state to be logical about it. If the pregnancy is terminated, she will always wonder 'what' she and Mike would have produced, in the same way that women who have never conceived or who have miscarried do. If she 'is allowed' to go full term, her last weeks of pregnancy will be overshadowed by the Question. These are the first tears I've shed for Vicky, whom I've always disliked, but now I really feel for her, and for all women whose hopes of motherhood have been dashed in any way.

    Dig 
    I agree. I think the story so far has been very cleverly written: what a lot of emotion in just a few weeks! First Vicky's elation, and now her conflicting emotions, and her apprehension, for the child that she is carrying. And we don't even know what that child will be. I think the writing is spot on. Even the virtual shopping spree on the computer was totally in character: it'sthe sort of thing I would do, in fact. In Vicky's mind the surprise of being pregnant was her dominant thought, not all the possible complications. She is basically an optimist, and it is entirely in character for her to behave like this. I felt for both of them tonight, because they represent all parents who have had worrying news and difficult choices- some of them close to my heart, and to other MLers too, it would appear.

    Report message22

  • Message 23

    , in reply to message 21.

    Posted by Essex_woman (U13283193) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    I agree with posters who have said that this episode was well written and well acted.
    I have been uncertain about this story line so far but think it's developing in a credible way and was quite touched this evening with Vicky in such a state and Mike doing his best to be sensible and understanding.
    As for children with special needs, we need to take into account
    a. that there is a huge range of such children (even within those who have DS) and thus a huge range of outcomes for them and their families
    b. that the child's experience may be much more or much less positive that their parents' (e.g. most children with profound and multiple learning difficulties are happy and responsive with no concept of what they will never achieve, some parents may be distraught by the lost potential)
    c. that in my experience working in a special school most families, to my undying admiration, are positive and supportive of their children and take as much pride in their achievements as other parents do of GCSE and A levels, and when sadly some die young their parent do not talk of 'happy releases' but mourn them very deeply and say they would have liked them for longer

    Report message23

  • Message 24

    , in reply to message 23.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    Good post Essex_woman:

    I thought Mike was marvellously portrayed this evening. The actor always rises to a serious SL.

    Report message24

  • Message 25

    , in reply to message 22.

    Posted by urban-dreamer (U14705136) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    Of course the tension is heightened by the short time scale they have to make a decision, which really seemed to freak Vicky out tonight (understandably).

    I do have sympathy for Vicky now her baby bubble is being burst, and I appreciate points other posters have made about Mike's lack of supportiveness, but unless she decides to take herself off, then this is a joint 'project' with huge implications for both of them and it's a bit wearying that they still haven't really talked through the feet-on-the-ground stuff about having a baby at their ages, or indeed any ages.

    Report message25

  • Message 26

    , in reply to message 6.

    Posted by Earldunda (U14196337) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    The SW obviously want us to see that to have a Downs child is utterly selfish as they are considered a drain on societies dwindling resources. 

    Are you a SW Stickings because if not I really do not know where you got that idea from. We don't even know whether the baby has Downs let alone whether the Tuckers will decide to terminate the pregnancy if the child does. All Mike has said is that he wants to be prepared if necessary.
    Even if they did decide to terminate the pregnancy why assume it's anything to do with "societies dwindling resources". As far as I am concerned it would be a personal decision because the child's parents didn't feel capable of bringing up a baby with Downs for whatever reason.  
    It is a careful way of putting it-the parents "may not feel capable" of bringing up a DS child.

    I certainly know people who might be capable of it, but would simply not want a DS child-they would rather have a, forgive the term, 'normal' child and that view also does need to be respected.

    Report message26

  • Message 27

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by borsetshirebee (U15362979) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    A much wanted baby and she is being pressured

    I really feel for her  
    I'm sure Vickii would like to have a baby, but this was an accident and totally unplanned, and her being 46 may pose problems about the health of the child.

    Even so Mike is the last person to provide her with any support- the stock idiot old fashioned male.

    The fact that he himself is disabled in an accident never seems to cause him any thought.  
    I think you're being quite mean to Mike. I think he has been really nice to Vicky about this telling her it's her decision too.

    There'd be plenty of men who would just want her to have the amnio and have an abortion if the baby is Downs, and wouldn't hold back in saying so either..

    Report message27

  • Message 28

    , in reply to message 27.

    Posted by Roots (U2273958) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    I thought Mike was really sympathetic and kind tonight. Difficult decision for both of them. But maybe they really do want to know what they're in for - perhapsa disabled child, but I didn't get the impression Vicky or Mike would want to abort the child, even if amnio tests show that it will be disabled to some degree.

    I just hope, speaking from bitter experience, that they don't have the situation of the amnio proving negative for any disability, but then goes on to start a miscarriage, because that's a really hard thing to deal with.

    It would be lovely for Vicky to go full term and produce a bouncing baby, and Mike trying to cope with being a new dad, for the first time in over 20 years.

    Report message28

  • Message 29

    , in reply to message 23.

    Posted by afficionada (U14738262) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    Well summed up, Essex woman - both as regards the programme and children with special needs (and their families).

    Report message29

  • Message 30

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by cathyslater (U2447474) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    Well summed up, Essex woman - both as regards the programme and children with special needs (and their families).   ditto

    Report message30

  • Message 31

    , in reply to message 28.

    Posted by Malahide (U14258229) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    >I just hope, speaking from bitter experience, that they don't have the situation of the amnio proving negative for any disability, but then goes on to start a miscarriage, because that's a really hard thing to deal with.<

    I had a close friend to whom this happened and the effect was devastating. Not only for her and her husband but also for her older sister, who had twice refused the amnio test in the face of considerable pressure, and subsequently produced two perfectly normal children.

    The older sister's attitude was that she and her husband would cope with a disabled child if necessary and that was all that *anybody else* needed to know, including the doctors and midwives.

    I do wish Vicky would say this too but I'm afraid she now only seeks to please Mike, placing his feelings above her own quite proper (and well-founded) fears for this baby's safety.

    BTW I thought Vicky and Mike's actors' performances were first-class in this episode.

    Report message31

  • Message 32

    , in reply to message 31.

    Posted by Essex_woman (U13283193) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    I thought they were first class too.
    I didn't think she was just going along with Mike, I thought she had picked up on the idea of having all the information.

    Report message32

  • Message 33

    , in reply to message 28.

    Posted by borsetshirebee (U15362979) on Monday, 20th August 2012


    I just hope, speaking from bitter experience, that they don't have the situation of the amnio proving negative for any disability, but then goes on to start a miscarriage, because that's a really hard thing to deal with.



    That is really sad in real life and would be even sadder for a woman Vicky's age for whom this is a last chance baby. However being as Vicky is really an annoying character and being as they are not real people I would be quite pleased to see her deflated. She will be absolutely insuffferable if all goes well.

    Report message33

  • Message 34

    , in reply to message 33.

    Posted by Threeblack drapedwellsofmyown (U5254306) on Monday, 20th August 2012

    That is a hideous attitude

    I had my last chance baby removed as it was an ectopic pregnancy


    I still mourn my child and wonder at the might have beens

    Even though my child would be going to university this year.....

    I feel for Vicky and hope Mike can cope with her decision

    Report message34

  • Message 35

    , in reply to message 34.

    Posted by borsetshirebee (U15362979) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    That is a hideous attitude

    I had my last chance baby removed as it was an ectopic pregnancy


    I still mourn my child and wonder at the might have beens

    Even though my child would be going to university this year.....

    I feel for Vicky and hope Mike can cope with her decision  
    Vicky and Mike are not real people though, much as we may enjoy (briefly I hope ) pretending they are!

    We do not have to wish them well. LOL. Vicky will not 'make a decision' either, the scriptwriters will do it for her, and Mike will not have to 'cope'.
    So save your worrying for RL.

    Report message35

  • Message 36

    , in reply to message 35.

    Posted by Threeblack drapedwellsofmyown (U5254306) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    Thank you for empathising with fiction imatating RL

    Such a kind post

    It is nice to know ML is a haven full of kindly folk who care for RL posters who may be affected by a storyline that hurts daily

    Heigh ho

    I will knit some more cats. And yoghurt


    Since that is what barren old bsgs are fit for...


    Report message36

  • Message 37

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by SredniVashtar07 (U9755761) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    A much wanted baby and she is being pressured

    I really feel for her  
    I though the child was a complete accident ?

    I'm affraid Vicky is the sort of sentimental dope whom I would not trust to take care of a goldfish, let alone a child.

    I feel sorry for Mike, by trying to inject a little common sense he is portrayed as an ogre.

    Report message37

  • Message 38

    , in reply to message 28.

    Posted by anna kist (U2314477) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    < It would be lovely for Vicky to go full term and produce a bouncing baby, and Mike trying to cope with being a new dad, for the first time in over 20 years. >

    Sorry I disagree. Months of them angsting over the outcome and then Vicky bawling and grabbing the limelight forever more whilst Mike working himself to death is not what I call entertainment.

    I still want this pregancy to end asap.

    Report message38

  • Message 39

    , in reply to message 37.

    Posted by Malahide (U14258229) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    >I'm affraid Vicky is the sort of sentimental dope whom I would not trust to take care of a goldfish, let alone a child.<

    Better a sentimental mother than a nagging judgmental one, a neglectful one, or worse.

    I'd rather trust Vicky with a child, goldfish, veal calf or whatever, in preference to quite a few other TA characters: Kathy, Kenton, Fallon, Brian, Ian, Adam, Helen, the younger Peggy, Tracey.

    Report message39

  • Message 40

    , in reply to message 37.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    I don't know about common sense, but Moike should have thought a lot more before he 'injected' Vicky!

    Nazi warning. Nazis didn't see Jews as 'real' people. They were seen as soemthing other. It is easy to extend ideas about fictional people into RL.

    Report message40

  • Message 41

    , in reply to message 40.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    One's response to fictional characters must reveal what one's response would be to someone of a similar character or ion a similar position.

    I am as guilty as any other poster. I dislike the Brian and Ed characters intensely and would feel the same about similar people in RL.

    Report message41

  • Message 42

    , in reply to message 40.

    Posted by Tadpole (U2267185) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    " Nazi warning. Nazis didn't see Jews as 'real' people. They were seen as soemthing other. It is easy to extend ideas about fictional people into RL. "


    Agh!

    I wanted Helen's baby to turn out to be a cushion stuffed up her skinny rib jumper. Does that make me a Nazi?

    Report message42

  • Message 43

    , in reply to message 42.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    I don't think we can have two categories of emotion about and response to things. Particularly people. Our response to fiction or fact will be the same.
    After all as we read or listen to fiction the characters become real in our minds. We simply cannot divorce what we feel about fictional people from what we would feel about them if they were real. Writers base their characters upon actual human traits. That's all they have to work with.

    Obviously, some people were more easily recruited to the Nazi Party.
    It harnessed the worst in people and one way it did this was to present some people as not the same as other 'real' people.

    Report message43

  • Message 44

    , in reply to message 43.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    I would think the only difference in our response to real people and fictional characters is that we would (perhaps) attempt to conceal these emotions from people. However, some might not!

    Report message44

  • Message 45

    , in reply to message 44.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    Just like TA characters,Jewish people were presented as caricatures. This stylised presentation of them made it easier to dislike them.

    Report message45

  • Message 46

    , in reply to message 36.

    Posted by Ginslinger Redux (U14830013) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    *hugs* Won't be much comfort but lots grateful people benefit from all the love, compassion and attention you give and your child would have been blessed to have you.

    Report message46

  • Message 47

    , in reply to message 43.

    Posted by Tadpole (U2267185) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    " I don't think we can have two categories of emotion about and response to things. Particularly people. Our response to fiction or fact will be the same. "


    That's far too simplistic. We can find ourselves 'cheering on' all sorts of characters in fiction whom we would feel much more ambivalent about or repelled by in real life. That's part of the writer's skill, to put us in strange or uncomfortable situations or give us the frisson of imagining for a while what it would be like to be a 'bad' person. Fiction allows us to try out different emotions and put ourselves in different roles - it makes us feel differently from how we'd feel in real life, that's it's unique and disturbing power. To take just one example: my response to Humbert Humbert is NOT my response to a middle aged paedophile in real life.

    Report message47

  • Message 48

    , in reply to message 44.

    Posted by Ginslinger Redux (U14830013) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    What baffles me is when people are so protective of the feelings of the fictional that they are happy to be callous of real posters - anything from sweeping generalisations to quite specific unkindness. Which has been a shame because I have felt quite privileged to read the experience of many posters on this perhaps most personal and difficult of topics. Heigh ho...

    Report message48

  • Message 49

    , in reply to message 47.

    Posted by Isabel Archer (U13716168) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    "To take just one example: my response to Humbert Humbert is NOT my response to a middle aged paedophile in real life."

    Really Tadpole? I find him utterly (if brilliantly) repulsive. Agree with your general point though. One of the things that fiction can do is place you inside the skin of someone else.

    Report message49

  • Message 50

    , in reply to message 49.

    Posted by Tadpole (U2267185) on Tuesday, 21st August 2012

    "To take just one example: my response to Humbert Humbert is NOT my response to a middle aged paedophile in real life."

    Really Tadpole? I find him utterly (if brilliantly) repulsive. Agree with your general point though. One of the things that fiction can do is place you inside the skin of someone else.
     
    Hi Isabel. I find myself finding him disturbingly likeable in the early parts of the book - his wit, his wordplay, his disdain for lowbrow culture etc.

    Getting back to TA. I wanted a bad end to Helen's baby story because she's horrid, and far more interesting as a character to whom bad things happen than as a ridiculous earth mother. Conversely, I want Vicky's baby story to turn out well because I think there's more drama in Mike and Vicky coping with bringing up a child, Brenda's nose being put out of joint, future inheritance battles etc, than in a miscarriage/termination.

    I don't think either of these reflect how I feel about real life mothers and real life babies, frankly.

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