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Debbie and animal welfare

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Messages: 1 - 50 of 121
  • Message 1. 

    Posted by JudithL (U14272244) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    Does Debbie have any idea at all of how many people here feel about the welfare of the animals which are reared for our food?
    She couldn't see anything wrong with the mega dairy, and now she can't see anything wrong with a mega-piggery.
    How long before she suggests that they really should be force-feeding geese to produce foie gras?
    I don't expect all farmers to have Fluffy Bunny Syndrome, but farmers that I know do care about their animals. I have the impression that to Debbie they're cash on legs, and nothing more.

    Report message1

  • Message 2

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by mike (U14258103) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    I would guess only a few animal rights nutters would be concerned about pigs living indoors. Pigs are not cows!

    Report message2

  • Message 3

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    Pigs are amorphra wotsit even more than cows!

    Report message3

  • Message 4

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Earldunda (U14196337) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    The sudden swap from cows to pigs, and Brian's conversion to this latest stupid idea from the retarded Debbie in two seconds, is just typical of The Archers at present

    Report message4

  • Message 5

    , in reply to message 3.

    Posted by Botticelliangel (U3219861) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    anthropomorphic?

    They are the closest to human for tissue and organ things aren't they?

    I thought they liked woodland. I rather hope Debbie's plan backfires and a whole lot of people who wouldn't have minded before suddenly get interested in pig welfare.

    (I speak as a confirmed townie, who doesn't much like animals!)

    Report message5

  • Message 6

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    I find many animals repulsive, scary or boring but I love pigs.

    Report message6

  • Message 7

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    Cows are not unintelligent, but the pigs I have known could have reasoned rings round any cow I've been acquainted with.

    Mind you, I'm not sure which has the greater degree of low cunning, the pig or the goat, and I am fairly sure that when it comes to a pratfall sense of humour the goat would win every time. Sheep are merely homicdal and very good at pretending to be stupid so's to catch you unawares.

    Still, there is one thing to say for the pigs being indoors: pigs can be housetrained, and they will (if they are allowed to) choose an area for excretion and stay within it for those purposes, so they'll be easier to muck out than cows which have no sphincteral control.

    Though I don't suppose the poor creatures will be given enough space for such amenities.

    Report message7

  • Message 8

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by farmerjo1 (U15145285) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    yes agree a sudden cow/pig switch is unbelievable as is the idea there will be less oposition.

    Report message8

  • Message 9

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by nesta vipers (U2256451) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    I would guess only a few animal rights nutters would be concerned about pigs living indoors. Pigs are not cows!  Mike, pigs are way more intelligent than cows just for starters!

    Even if you do not see the pitfalls ahead for this ( horrible *) idea then I am sure Tom will have something to say

    Cant wait...

    Cheers nesta

    * ok, if pigsmaremthatmintelligent they can put their trotters up & do Times crossword or watch Countdown I grant, but even oop 'ere in pig country they aim for free range where pos

    Report message9

  • Message 10

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by StargazerwithOscar (U14668197) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    Dear me, Mike, can it be that you are unacquainted with the Empress of Blandings, the Earl of Emsworth's dearest friend and confidante? For further information about the splendid animal in question, please read the Blandings novels of P G Wodehouse (far funnier than the Jeeves and Woosters).

    Report message10

  • Message 11

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Leaping Badger (U3587940) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    I would guess only a few animal rights nutters would be concerned about pigs living indoors.  I'm no animal rights nutter but I draw the line at sharing my home with pigs. For a start, they always commandeer* the remote control and turn down the corners of pages in your favourite books.
    'Ö'

    *I was about to type 'hog' but thought that was a pun too far even for me.

    Report message11

  • Message 12

    , in reply to message 11.

    Posted by nesta vipers (U2256451) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    I now hate Debbie; it's official

    Report message12

  • Message 13

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by alanis (U2256129) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    Yes, I just caught the end of that this evening, and was totally nonplussed - where did the pig-plan spring from, how could Brian have been so convinced immediately and most of all, how could they think it will attract less opposition than the mega dairy?? What the heck is going on?

    Report message13

  • Message 14

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by strokecitydave (U5467417) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    Does Debbie have any idea at all of how many people here feel about the welfare of the animals which are reared for our food?
    She couldn't see anything wrong with the mega dairy, and now she can't see anything wrong with a mega-piggery.
    How long before she suggests that they really should be force-feeding geese to produce foie gras?
    I don't expect all farmers to have Fluffy Bunny Syndrome, but farmers that I know do care about their animals. I have the impression that to Debbie they're cash on legs, and nothing more. 
    Aaaah - the deep joy of intensive farming - it's soooo good for the animals, whether they be pigs, cows or poultry. I'm a veggie, so don't support the raising of any animal for slaughter (nope - not even if it's organic, free range and walked down the road to a stress free death whilst listening to Mozart to relax it - and approved by Sheila Dillon because it costs four times as much as the stuff that the proles buy in Tesbury's). Any supporters of intensive farming, please go to:

    www.chooseveg.com/an...

    Please be warned - strong content that may offend,

    and it's American - but the system Debbie is proposing is based on American methods, as was the "uber welfare" mega dairy.

    Report message14

  • Message 15

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    Does that site have any dates on it, dave? I couldn't find one, but I may have looked in the wrong place.

    I don't think that any pig has been kept in such a way in this country for some years now.

    Report message15

  • Message 16

    , in reply to message 15.

    Posted by strokecitydave (U5467417) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    Sorry, I don't know - I saved the link a couple of years ago - for me, it's more a comment about how humans treat animals raised for slaughter/food. I've got no idea how old it is - but we have a government that wants to cut red tape, sees regulation as stifling business, etc., so even if it is not particularly current, might be a case of "looking forward to the past"

    Report message16

  • Message 17

    , in reply to message 16.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    I don't think so; the regulations about the keeping of animals and the acceptable standards for their accommodation are Europe-wide, and the Dutch and the Danes will have come into line with them by the end of April. What surprises me is that Debbie, in (bankrupt) Hungary which is part of the EU and has signed up to the same regulation, doesn't seem to know about this fact.

    (It is the fact that the Danes and the Dutch keep their pigs in very inappropriate conditions which means I have not bought any pork product from either country for decades.)

    Report message17

  • Message 18

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by sunnysakasredux (U14979019) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    Well no pigs are not cows 'cos pigs are pigs! I must be an animal rights nutter then 'cos I think anyone that can inflict pain and suffering on an animal can do it to a human (step forward Clive Horrobin!) so when it comes to not treating animals in a cruel and inhumane way I am a balcony! Finally Hellin and I have something in common.
    Nesta I am with you Debbie is dead to me now!
    Locki I couldn't spell that word eitherxxx george smiley.
    As I am currently nursing a sick horse and watching tv with him I am probably not the best person to comment on animal welfare and normal behaviour with them.
    Horses don't really care for pigs but pigs are smart. Orwell knew that.
    xxxx

    Report message18

  • Message 19

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by fabsupergran (U11440988) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    Is Debbie some kind of wonder woman - Brian wants her advice on dealing with all the protests at the market and she lives hundreds of miles away ! Crazy

    But wait ,Yes she is wonder woman - she has the answer - Pigs instead - Brian is just amazed at how clever she is

    I wonder how long it will be this time before they let Adam in on the new idea !.
    It will be interesting to hear what Tom and Neil have to say this time too.
    Also the local community - pigs can be very smelly especially in a confined space and with so many of them !!!



    Report message19

  • Message 20

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by strokecitydave (U5467417) on Thursday, 22nd March 2012

    she has the answer - Pigs instead - Brian is just amazed at how clever she is  

    but then after more public disapproval - what next? Rabbits, guinea pigs, ostriches?

    Report message20

  • Message 21

    , in reply to message 20.

    Posted by Lee Shore (U14673711) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    Animal production for vivisection which will stir up the cuddly wuddly brigade.

    I am not convinced abou the pig idea though. It seems to me the sw/editor bravery of the inititial mega dairy is evaporating at Carnation speed and we will shortly be back to wheat barley and rape with protesters having to fall back on moaning about Home Farm machinery movements. They would prefer to have peasants havesting with sickles and scythes and living in traditional rural poverty. I think Kirsty should be forcibly dressed in a smock and sent out in all weathers at 4am to tend the fields ditches hedges and sickly animals as it was in bathsheba's day. Very productive I am sure.

    Report message21

  • Message 22

    , in reply to message 20.

    Posted by alanis (U2256129) on Friday, 23rd March 2012


    but then after more public disapproval - what next? Rabbits, guinea pigs, ostriches? 


    Oh, ostriches are different. We don't care about ostriches!


    (sorry, I couldn't resist a line here from Arrested Development - one of my favorite ever programs)

    Report message22

  • Message 23

    , in reply to message 22.

    Posted by Perkin Warbeck is not a cannibal (U14797366) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    They could start a puppy farm....

    Report message23

  • Message 24

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by maggiesaes (U2771771) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    The sudden swap from cows to pigs, and Brian's conversion to this latest stupid idea from the retarded Debbie in two seconds, is just typical of The Archers at present  Well I do realize that it is fiction but didn't quite grasp the fact that it is a fairy story!!!

    Report message24

  • Message 25

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Lady Trudie Tilney Glorfindel Maldini (U2222312) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    I would guess only a few animal rights nutters would be concerned about pigs living indoors. Pigs are not cows! 

    You guess wrong, Mike - I'm not an animal rights nutter but I always look for 'outdoor reared' at the very least.


    I would have thought that welfare standards are more important for a meat product that a dairy product in the public's eyes, being more 'directly' linked - you rarely see packets of 'free range' cheese or outdoor reared yoghurt.

    That's what I find strange - from a marketing point of view if nothing else, surely intensively reared animals are less attractive? What sort of markets are they looking at, anyway?

    Report message25

  • Message 26

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by maggiesaes (U2771771) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    That was shocking disturbing viewing and I have saved the link.
    Thank you .

    Report message26

  • Message 27

    , in reply to message 26.

    Posted by Lady Trudie Tilney Glorfindel Maldini (U2222312) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    This might well be Debbie's model:

    www.mppfoston.com/in...

    Plenty of opposition sites too if you google.

    Report message27

  • Message 28

    , in reply to message 27.

    Posted by waslantana (U15073790) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    You guess wrong, Mike - I'm not an animal rights nutter but I always look for 'outdoor reared' at the very least.

    That's what I find strange - from a marketing point of view if nothing else, surely intensively reared animals are less attractive? What sort of markets are they looking at, anyway?  


    I agree. My father started off working life as a pigman/boyu, and always said what highly intelligent animals they were, ao I assume opposition will be as strong as to the megadairy.

    But there is always a market for cheap meat, particularly in a recession, as might be expected, and they can also sell to the catering trade.

    Report message28

  • Message 29

    , in reply to message 28.

    Posted by mike (U14258103) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    1. Brookfield had an indoors pig unit for years (the Hollowtree pig unit) and nobody then thought it was in any way cruel.

    2. Pigs (being more intelligent than cows) actually prefer being indoors. Who would prefer to be out there in a muddy wet cold field like Tom's pigs? Tom Archer, in fact, is the cruel one - getting his pigs to play football without giving them proper footballers' wages.

    Debbie is right (as always).

    Report message29

  • Message 30

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by PhyllisDoris (U2224329) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    Does Debbie think that people like Kirsty can't read?

    www.guardian.co.uk/e...

    This article suggests that, aside from animal welfare issues, mega pig units are an infringement of the human rights of those who have to live near them - which I don't think was a particular problem with the megacows.

    So as well as people who care about the piggies, they'll have people who don't give a briefcase for pig rights, but /do/ care very much about their own right not to live in a stink.

    (The article linked in emintrude's post about the same proposed site says there won't be any smell, but whether that's true or not, it won't stop people thinking otherwise)

    Report message30

  • Message 31

    , in reply to message 28.

    Posted by strokecitydave (U5467417) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    they can also sell to the catering trade  

    Or evern set up their own sossidge and ready meal business that will drive the SLT bankrupt. Then he can get a job as Uncle Brian's pig man! - the thought of it is soooo delicious - the SLT as swineherd. No more meetings in Shrewsbury for you, son.

    Report message31

  • Message 32

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by waslantana (U15073790) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    Brookfield had an indoors pig unit for years (the Hollowtree pig unit) and nobody then thought it was in any way cruel.

    2. Pigs (being more intelligent than cows) actually prefer being indoors. Who would prefer to be out there in a muddy wet cold field like Tom's pigs?  


    1. Times have changed

    2. There's being indoors and there's being indoors in a confined space with 2000 others. When not footballing or contributing to ready meals, the twonk's pigs do have pig arcs to shelter in.

    Report message32

  • Message 33

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by Leaping Badger (U3587940) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    2. Pigs (being more intelligent than cows) actually prefer being indoors. Who would prefer to be out there in a muddy wet cold field like Tom's pigs?  A muddy field is not the place for pigs, which are forest creatures. Therefore some shelter is good for them, but (being intelligent) they need variety in their environment, as they would get in a woodland environment.

    Erms, don't forget Hugh Faintly-Wittering's outdoor-reared sausages - because sausages are people too.
    'Ö'

    Report message33

  • Message 34

    , in reply to message 33.

    Posted by Lady Trudie Tilney Glorfindel Maldini (U2222312) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    Oh yes, if you get up early by the light of a full moon you can occasionally glimpse them running round the Dorset woodlands on their little legs, Leaps.

    Report message34

  • Message 35

    , in reply to message 25.

    Posted by Dinah Shore (U14984316) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    They are looking for the European Market. Debbie said European pig farmers are going out of business because they have to meet UK standards of care, and Debbie wants to cash in on this gap in the Market.

    Report message35

  • Message 36

    , in reply to message 35.

    Posted by Buntysdaughter (U7084475) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    So will there be an opportunity for a Premier League of footballing pigs ? Stiff competition for Taarm's team.

    Report message36

  • Message 37

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by Ruralrambler (U11117592) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    1. Brookfield had an indoors pig unit for years (the Hollowtree pig unit) and nobody then thought it was in any way cruel.

    2. Pigs (being more intelligent than cows) actually prefer being indoors. Who would prefer to be out there in a muddy wet cold field like Tom's pigs? Tom Archer, in fact, is the cruel one - getting his pigs to play football without giving them proper footballers' wages.

    Debbie is right (as always). 
    I am no pig expert but I understand that what they really like is rooting around in the earth and turning soil over, presumably in search of tasty worms or similar.

    Our local park (central West London) has for two years now had pigs employed for a few weeks turning over the soil in a couple of formerly overgrown enclosed areas in order to clear them for the subsequent planting of wild flower meadows and general tidying up purposes. The pigs do indeed have a shelter to take cover in, but they mostly seem to like being outdoors, rooting away. They are a great source of interest to park visitors as the only other wildlife we see is urban foxes and braying Hooray Henrys.

    I also understand that pigs are intelligent, more so than cows, and I always try to buy outdoor reared, British, pork if I can. I would hope to avoid meat reared in an intensive unit if I could.

    Debbie - Pah!!!

    Report message37

  • Message 38

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by maggiesaes (U2771771) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    Into the realms of Jackanory.

    Report message38

  • Message 39

    , in reply to message 34.

    Posted by Leaping Badger (U3587940) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    It's an inspiring sight, Erms, and no mistake.
    'Ö'

    Report message39

  • Message 40

    , in reply to message 38.

    Posted by the_shellgrottolady (U2395646) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    Debbie is just a queen b**tch and is unhappy in her personal life (good)long may it continue...
    . Are people so incredibly stupid that they think that cheap meat is good for them - all forced growth and hormones...
    Take a look at the average UK or USA high street to see the big fat a@ses that are caused by cramming down crap burgers and cheap meat. They didn't get that way from overdoing the hot house grown fruit and veg... thats for sure
    makes me mad.
    Keeping animals like this is wrong.

    Report message40

  • Message 41

    , in reply to message 40.

    Posted by Ruralrambler (U11117592) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    Debbie is just a queen b**tch and is unhappy in her personal life (good)long may it continue...
    . Are people so incredibly stupid that they think that cheap meat is good for them - all forced growth and hormones...
    Take a look at the average UK or USA high street to see the big fat a@ses that are caused by cramming down crap burgers and cheap meat. They didn't get that way from overdoing the hot house grown fruit and veg... thats for sure
    makes me mad.
    Keeping animals like this is wrong.  
    Although I agree that cramming burgers down is not a good policy I suspect the fat is due more to eating loads of fried food and ready meals loaded with fat and carbs, rather than bearing much relation to the price of the meat.

    I am lucky enough to be able to afford to buy better quality food, but lots of people can only afford to buy the cheapest available.

    Fruit is mostly expensive and does not fill you up much.

    This is not to defend the Debster - I hate her factory farm idea.

    Report message41

  • Message 42

    , in reply to message 41.

    Posted by anna kist (U2314477) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    vegetables are comparatively cheap though and some are very filling. I think it is a cultural thing. In restaurants the meat is always the main focus of the dish and the veg just the triimmings and not given much attention and from where I sit often not eaten..

    At home eat a bit of meat or fish but the main focus of our meals are veg. Much better healthwise and makes for interesting meals as there is so much one can do with veg.

    Report message42

  • Message 43

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by Eileen (U2438659) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    Pigs (being more intelligent than cows) actually prefer being indoors. Who would prefer to be out there in a muddy wet cold field like Tom's pigs? Tom Archer, in fact, is the cruel one - getting his pigs to play football without giving them proper footballers' wages. 

    snork

    Report message43

  • Message 44

    , in reply to message 27.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    I have read the pro-pigfactory plan, and note with interest that all protest is dismissed as being from "single issue pressure groups which would prefer people not to eat meat at all".

    This is a rather glorious misrepresentation of a huge body of people who eat meat but don't like cruelty to animals, and regard the practice of imprisonment for no offence as cruelty.

    Report message44

  • Message 45

    , in reply to message 7.

    Posted by Mieteka (U14938651) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    Here here about the intelligence of pigs!

    BTW - pigs are also quite aggressive, if riled. It is not unknown for unwary farm workers to fall into a pig enclosure and be killed and then eaten. Honestly. Am I the only one envisaging some new and unusual deaths in Ambridge?

    Report message45

  • Message 46

    , in reply to message 44.

    Posted by Our_Freda (U4239986) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    I loathe seeing pigs in faceless, muddy, cold, wet or sunburning flatlands. They belong in woodland, or humane shelter. They're stuck out there for a minimum number of weeks to get an 'outdoor reared' label, before they are crammed into indoor sheds to finish, resorting to cannibalism and being kicked around by the muppets who are paid squat to work there. Bale or two of straw and another 20cm each and they're high welfare. Yeh, right.
    Life is not Ambridge. Outdoor reared my behind.

    I am not a vegetarian, but I'm awful picky about what I do eat.

    Report message46

  • Message 47

    , in reply to message 40.

    Posted by mike (U14258103) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    >>>Keeping animals like this is wrong<<<

    No it isn't. All the pigs that I know tell me that they prefer being inside!

    Report message47

  • Message 48

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Alinya (U14929922) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    I would guess only a few animal rights nutters would be concerned about pigs living indoors. Pigs are not cows!  I don't know. Years ago people tried to put Pig Farms in near the lake where my family goes to holiday. The town went up in arms. Indoors or no, the smell is supposed to be awful.

    Report message48

  • Message 49

    , in reply to message 45.

    Posted by anna kist (U2314477) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    Let's hope Tom is the first victim. Poetic justice or what?

    Report message49

  • Message 50

    , in reply to message 47.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Friday, 23rd March 2012

    Pigs prefer to have shelter from the cold, the rain, and the heat of the sun (though they will wallow in mud, if it is available, or swim, in order to reduce the effect of that heat). No more than any person does a pig like to be confined in an enclosed space with nothing to do for weeks on end and nothing to enjoy except periodically being given not-very-interesting food. They are intelligent creatures, and if they have the space they will play -- the footballing pigs is a joke, but they will do things of that sort for their own amusement rather than for a human to film.

    If you keep rats in large groups in a small space they too will turn to cannibalism. People in similar conditions become violent and attack each other for no good cause. The reason for the battery factory for hens is that if they are kept in confined space they attack and kill each other, and it was said to be kinder to separate them.

    Report message50

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