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Messages: 101 - 150 of 233
  • Message 101

    , in reply to message 99.

    Posted by ruralsnowflakebliss (U8131914) on Saturday, 10th December 2011

    She can't be ... to a great extent she has not actually DONE anything......


















    Ummmm well Ruth hasn't done much too.............................







    Now Emma on the other hand... the board seems evenly divided

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  • Message 102

    , in reply to message 101.

    Posted by kissedbough (U14269224) on Saturday, 10th December 2011

    Don't flake out on the fence now, rural!

    Report message2

  • Message 103

    , in reply to message 102.

    Posted by ruralsnowflakebliss (U8131914) on Saturday, 10th December 2011

    Don't flake out on the fence now, rural!
     
    I am melting aarrrggghhhhh ............. I am melting

    Report message3

  • Message 104

    , in reply to message 52.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    I don 't think Pat and Tony can be seen to have jumped to conclusions about John's relationship with Sharon. John's rapid dumping of her when the chips were down and he realised he wante Hayley reveal that Pat and Tony were right about the type of and quality of John and Sharon's relationship. Ultimately, John valued it as much as Pat and Tone!

    Report message4

  • Message 105

    , in reply to message 63.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    I know only to well that love and support can go hand in hand with condemnation of children's behaviour. One can condemn but it is very difficult to be totally objective about a child's failings and dismiss one's parental feelings for them. It is hard to be as rational about one's children's faults as of others.

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  • Message 106

    , in reply to message 92.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    .....sunny, I'm not sure that Alice is a great example of social meritocracy! Alice has had everything handed on a plate, including a house to live in.
    However, perhaps her insistence on leaving private education was intended to reveal that she is down with da kids! Is that the right expression? Chris must surely be seen to be as much a social climber as his mother!

    Report message6

  • Message 107

    , in reply to message 74.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    alma..... I think a lot of people are pleasant to their child's partner simply for their children's or grandchildren's sake!

    Children's taste in partners may not always coicide with one's own and as someone upthread commented, it is not the business of parents who their children chose. Lucky is the parent whose taste in people coincides with their child's. Breakdown of relationships often results in people being pleasant to ex-partners for the sake of grandchildren. Grandchildren ensure relationships are continued between an extended family who would otherwise also be estranged after the breakup of the couple.

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  • Message 108

    , in reply to message 107.

    Posted by anna kist (U2314477) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    < Grandchildren ensure relationships are continued between an extended family who would otherwise also be estranged after the breakup of the couple. >

    or not - not all grandparents have contact with grandchildren if the parents split. The papers are full of examples.

    Report message8

  • Message 109

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by dickie (U2267358) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    I've just listened again to the Wed episode (on the omnibus).

    There were two points where Sharon wanted to end the conversation but Pat wouldn't let go - Pat might have been hurt by what Sharon said at the end (and it was all justifiable), but if she had taken no for an answer, she wouldn't have had to listen to it.

    Report message9

  • Message 110

    , in reply to message 106.

    Posted by sunnysakasredux (U14979019) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    .....sunny, I'm not sure that Alice is a great example of social meritocracy! Alice has had everything handed on a plate, including a house to live in.
    However, perhaps her insistence on leaving private education was intended to reveal that she is down with da kids! Is that the right expression? Chris must surely be seen to be as much a social climber as his mother! 
    OFGS! Baubles!! Alice is fine, she worked hard, she got good A level results, a decent degree at a good university. Her comfortable background helps her (as I admit mine does!) but it didn't do the work for her! She has a supportive family but she had the trauma of Ruari and her dad's betrayal of her mother to contend with! Alice doesn't take that out on Ruari, she is one of the only people that seems to like him. She supported Hayley when Katred was wittering on about how the bond between Hayley and Phoebe wasn't as strong as her (kate's) bond with her! Alice is not a snob! Alice had no more say in her education when young than any kid does. I know loads of kids from poorer backgrounds than me who would have liked to go to my old school! Alice is great and so is Chris!
    Chris is not a social climber he is a realist (0r at least he used to be!) Chris is a lege! He found a career 'cos he probably realised that Neil and Susan would not have found it easy to fund him through all those years of further education of the academic kind. Plus not everyone is academic or even wants to be.
    Now Pip she is mediocre but her parents can support her all the way.
    20 odd years ago Chris would have been fine but Susan and Neil work so would probably just earn too much for Chris to have got much help from the govt! So things have changed. Like I said mum's family background is wealthy but dad's isn't! My dad wouldn't have found it easy today to achieve all the education and success he has now. Certainly my cousins on his side are struggling more than me.
    I heart chris and alicexxxx

    Report message10

  • Message 111

    , in reply to message 110.

    Posted by dickie (U2267358) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    "My dad wouldn't have found it easy today to achieve all the education and success he has now"

    You don't know that. People adapt to circumstances and those successful in one era are, I suspect, likely to be successful in another, possibly with the exception of wartime conditions. Maybe your father would have taken another, equally fruitful, route.

    One of our external auditors is a 21 year old who, in times gone by, would I am sure have gone to university - she is intelligent and outgoing. She instead made a reasoned decision to take a training contract with one of the "Big 4" accounting firms: she is on schedule to be fully qualified, earning well over £35k whilst her contemporaries are loaded down with debt, searching for work in a tough market.

    She took the view that, with a solid qualification to fall back on and money in the bank, she had the option of going to university later if she wanted.

    A degree at a young age isn't everything.

    Report message11

  • Message 112

    , in reply to message 69.

    Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Even Tony was indignant about Sharon, "after all the trouble she put us through" What trouble? Who my children decide to have sex with is nothing to do with me and therefore no trouble. One might not like them as much as one would like, but trouble??  
    Because John and Sharon's affair made ripples through the family - John treated everyone badly afterwards - Tom most of all. He would go out with him then abandon him in pubs and at parties. He also neglected the farm leading to a huge row with Tony.

    My remembered impressions about that time are that
    (1) in the first place Tony blamed *HIMSELF* over the accident - both the row and the coercion over completing the job with the faulty tractor. In the first place Pat told him not to blame himself - then I think she changed her mind. The relationship between them was never the same again IMHO.
    (2) Hayley also blamed herself - and was worried that Tony and Pat would blame her. She then threw herself into keeping on John's business - with Toms help. I thought both were very brave to do this - it showed them up in a very good light. It was Helen who ruined all that ..

    Noone (that I can remember) blamed Sharon over Johns death - only over his split with Hayley. In fact John had many one-night stands after he'd finished with both women. He was hardly a model of faithfulness. He even boasted of them to Roy!
    JPBS

    Report message12

  • Message 113

    , in reply to message 112.

    Posted by JustJanie - Fairweather Strider (U10822512) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    He sounds like a nasty piece of work, JBPS. Glad I never knew him!

    He doesn't seem to get an iota of posthumous blame for any of this from Pat or Tony, does he? In spite his track record it's all about Sharon who seduced and 'dominated' him, not he who gave in to temptation and behaved scurvily to Hayley.

    Report message13

  • Message 114

    , in reply to message 113.

    Posted by anna kist (U2314477) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Put it this way, Rich is better off with Eamonn than he would have been with John as a father.

    Report message14

  • Message 115

    , in reply to message 114.

    Posted by Lynetta Pavlova (U14864661) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    No one knows how John would have been as a father. He was - what? 22? Who can tell how time and maturity might have improved him?

    I certainly wouldn't like to be judged by my character at that age, and I think very few honest people would.

    Report message15

  • Message 116

    , in reply to message 114.

    Posted by Dinah Shore (U14984316) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Sharon has turned in to a brilliant-sounding mum.

    Maybe because her parents chucked her out, and have had nothing to do with her children.

    Maybe if John had lived, Pat and Tony would not have given him the chance to grow into a Good Parent, but Philip Larkined him, and poor little Rich boy.

    Report message16

  • Message 117

    , in reply to message 91.

    Posted by anna kist (U2314477) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Sunny I don't think you really understand what life was like in the 1960s and 1970s when Pat and I were young. Not everyone went to university it was selective so the state could afford reasonably generous grants to the few who went.

    Most people left school at 16, others at 18 and a few went to university. And materially we were a lot worse off than most young people today. We didn't have cars, own our homes, go abroad for holidays, have our own tvs, sound sysems telephones and wardrobes packed with clothes and shoes.

    I was in my late 20s when I first went abroad and bought my first place in 30s [shared with a friend]. I've only been comparatively well off in the last 10 years due to finally getting a job that paid a decent salary and saving as much of it as I can for my retirement.

    I find it quite insulting when a weathy young man like youself rubbishes my generation in the way you do. If we did anything wrong I think many of us spoilt our children and they grew up thinking they are entitled to have everything. Tom and Helen are fine examples of this.

    Report message17

  • Message 118

    , in reply to message 117.

    Posted by sunnysakasredux (U14979019) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Sorry I would not mean to offend you annax
    I am not wealthy my parents are ok. My mum comes from wealth dad doesn't! His parents wanted him to get a job at 16 he supported himself as much as possible. He had to work through university and I work now.
    It was selective then but I know some kids who should and are clever enough to be at university that can't afford it and kids that are dumb that are there. So it is not fairer now. We didn't cause the materialism we were too young! I haven't been spoilt 'cos neither of my parents are middle class! One is from the ruling class one is from the working class.
    I also said it was the people that admire Thatcher and her economic policies ( my ex Economics teacher for a start!) Pat has strong opinions but at heart she is a snob! A snob is a snob. Socialists are supposed to think everyone matters.
    There is more to life than money (although it helps) Hellin and Tom are money obsessed but they aren't independent and they aren't happy.
    I don't feel sorry for Pat 'cos she doesn't care about the human being that is RIch she just wants a replacement for her lost son. She needs medical help.
    xxxxxx

    Report message18

  • Message 119

    , in reply to message 117.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    anna, sakas has bught into the myths. They are very widely promulgated and he can't *really* be blamed too much for believing them, when the other side is so rarely voiced.

    I have a feeling for instance that he would be shocked at the idea that in the 1970s it was deemed acceptable for a judge to refuse to hear a divorce case at all because the woman was wearing a trouser suit; but it was the case. Likewise in the 1970s a man could be refused a cup of tea in a café because his hair was on his collar instead of "respectable", and I doubt that this would enter sakas' worldview either, any more than the stark reality of Cathy Come Home.

    The small proportion of the population who were selected by examination to get into universities, of which there were but few compared with the number that there are now, were indeed privileged; but the they were as you say a minority. I think they were more than the canonical 3%, but I coubt they were more than 10% of the population. The rest had to work to earn a living.

    When I moved to London at the end of the 1960s the underground were advertising for drivers. After training these men would get a take-home pay of £19.19s.

    I was well-off in the early seventies: I owned three pairs of jeans that I didn't actually need, and at least two shirts for "best", as well as two winter coats, one short and one long. Havens, I had more than three pairs of shoes! I owned a gramaphone (cost me £15) and I think probably ten or twelve LPs (£1.50 each), as many as forty singles (30p each). The idea of owning a car would have been a joke: I had a bicycle for transport, and hitched when I wanted to go more than ten miles. Very occasionally I caught a train, but I had to save up for that.

    It really isn't sakas' fault that he doesn't have these things built in, though, and has never gone and walked round department shops in the winter to keep warm there rather than put money in the meter to run an electric fire, which I was doing in the seventies when student grants were free. My clothes were respectable enough for me to get away with it: if they had been scruffy I might well have been politely escorted off the premises.

    Report message19

  • Message 120

    , in reply to message 119.

    Posted by anna kist (U2314477) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Agree with your view of the 70s, Chris, as you would expect.

    Sunny you really are a privileged young man from what you tell us here. That doesn't mean you don't work just that you don't realise that your lifestyle would have appeared wealthy to me at your age. Car, horses, holidays abroad - holidays even - all beyond my means at 18 and yes I was working full time.. No your generation didn't invent consumerism but nor did mine.

    Please don't trash the over 50s. Many of us have had to struggle to get where we are and we don't all have 'gold plated' pensions.

    Report message20

  • Message 121

    , in reply to message 120.

    Posted by Dinah Shore (U14984316) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Having to scrape the ice of the window panes, in the morning.

    A bath once a week, with brothers and sisters.

    Hairwashing once a fortnight.

    Wrights coal tar soap, maybe a set of 3 bath cubes at Christmas.

    Saving up for everything - no credit cards.

    Making all our own clothes, except uniform, which some of us had grants for. Otherwise, our parents /did/ have to make sacrifices to buy us a pair of pants.

    Report message21

  • Message 122

    , in reply to message 121.

    Posted by Buntysdaughter (U7084475) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Bath cubes, Dinah ! Yardleys ? Oh yes, they were my idea of sophistication on bath night, which, as you say, was once a week. Some bits of the cube took an age to crumble away, so you ended up sitting on gritty bits. None of yer shower gel then, eh.

    Report message22

  • Message 123

    , in reply to message 121.

    Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Agree with all of the above..

    Not that money is everything - it isn't until you don't have enough.

    I live in a `student' area - and am shocked at what gets chucked at the end of every term. No doubt the students round here are the well off ones and are not typical - so I don't generalise from the few to the many. So neither should *you* generalise from the few over 50s who are materialistic.

    In the past it was a lottery as to whether you` passed ' the 11plus - or not.** In one area (where I went to school) there were plenty of grammar schools. In the next door area (where I lived) there were few. The school double-entered those of us in that position - so we had double the chance of passing. The theory was that it was a tri-partite system - with equal chances in all three parts of the education system. The reality was that most of the money went into the grammar schools. I taught many `11plus failures' who struggled through HNCs and external degrees.

    Sorry to rant on ...
    JPBS
    **In one case known to me it was discovered that the girl had been wrongly marked and should have `failed'. However as she was getting on well at grammar school they left her as she was. She eventually went to Oxford ...

    Report message23

  • Message 124

    , in reply to message 122.

    Posted by ruralsnowflakebliss (U8131914) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Hmmm this is all very interesting... I am somewhere in between. Born 1975 and become adult in the dying days of the Major governement and see Labour in at university

    There is a change in material expectations.. no doubt about it... but across all ages. The internet was just kicking off... I knew one person who had a mobile at university...............

    But this idea of generational blame and conflict... tosh IMO. The law of unforseen consequences covers it for most of us

    Report message24

  • Message 125

    , in reply to message 124.

    Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    But there has *always* been generational blame .. I remember being on holiday with my parents and having a coffee in a coffee bar (then new) with a young couple. They were staying at the same B and B. The young man blamed *everything* on the previous generation! Now this was the mid 50s - the previous generation had had to live through WW2. My parents were furious - and they decided he was an example of `a so called angry young man'.

    Obviously every generation tries to improve on the previous generation - however they should realise they are building on what has gone before - as well as demolishing the rubbish bits.


    Hmmm - yet another rant ...
    JPBS

    Report message25

  • Message 126

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Maybe I'm in the minority, but I feel sorry for Pat.

    She may have been rude to her son's girlfriend, but she had just lost her son, and she didn't know that she was carrying her son's child.

    Hopefully Rich will get to meet his wealthy (if exasperating) grandparents soon and become a regular character. 


    Me too.

    He will.

    Report message26

  • Message 127

    , in reply to message 120.

    Posted by Malahide (U14258229) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    >Please don't trash the over 50s. <

    Oh, go on let the young trash the over-50s, Anna, the more they burble on from their limited experience, the more they demonstrate their ignorance. We know the truth regarding our mythical lives in the 60s and 70s. Yes, jobs were much easier to come by but you were just as easily thrown out of one with no redress and if you were a young girl you were regarded as fair game for the DOM of the office. I can remember horrendous rented accommodation in Swinging London, without a lavatory even on the same floor. Being down literally to one's last sixpence because there was no such thing as an overdraft to be had from your intimidating bank manager, let alone a credit card! As a student I can recall us somehow clubbing together to raise £150 for an Irish friend to have a 'Vera Drake' abortion because her family would disown her - and so on.
    I'm sure we, in turn, didn't appreciate half of what our older generations had endured during the war, but at least the demonstrations we went on didn't carry placards whining that we'd been somehow cheated by them.

    Report message27

  • Message 128

    , in reply to message 124.

    Posted by ruralsnowflakebliss (U8131914) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Oh and it appears I can't spell....... what is wrong with me?! Sorry

    Report message28

  • Message 129

    , in reply to message 121.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    I have a sort of feeling that in sakas' life an open fire has probably been a cosmetic item and a luxury rather than a necessity. I forget what percentage of houses now have central heating, but in the 1960s it was new and rather special for residences, and you tended not to have it unless you were Old Money or a school or hospital.

    Come to that, there was no heating in the bedrooms of the school I was at in the sixties, in Yorkshire. The house I lived in at the time was cold enough in winter for us to put on overcoats to go from the living-room, which had a coal fire stove in it, to the kitchen, which didn't, to make a hot drink in the evening.

    We didn't make our own clothes much, apart from woollies, which were all hand-knitted, often using wool from other garments that had Gone at the elbows or cuffs, unravelled, washed and re-knitted. We were from a large extended family and until I was fifteen all my clothes were inherited second (or third or fourth) hand from cousins a little older. The school had an "exchange" where second-hand uniform was sold very cheaply, so that was what I got.

    No credit cards, and the Never-never was shameful so you didn't use it.

    Coal tar soap was more expensive than "kitchen soap", which came in huge blocks that you cut bits off for the bath and the basins (two of those!) We could have a bath if we wanted or needed one, but there was no real heating in the nathroom: a heated towel-rail that got luke-warm and was turned on at the wall when you started to run the bath, to make the room fractionally less cold -- but you didn't linger in the bath in the winter!

    Frost-pictures on the inside of the bedroom window-panes was quite usual, and we didn't scrape them off because there was little point really.

    Chilblains! Does anyone get those any more? They were commonplace in the sixties. So were mumps and measles and chickpox and whooping-cough and german measles, and there was no universal vaccination programme back then. Polio had just come in as a vaccine for children, to go with the smallpox one, and oh how we feared them as small children, because they were damnably painful. A measles vaccine came into general use in 1963 and we all had it if we had not already had the disease (ow! OW!); a german measles one had been developed by the end of the 1960s but people still took girls to share beds with children infected with the disease, because it wasn't that terrible in itself but it is teratogenic and having had it already was a good idea if you were ever going to have a baby; mumps vaccine was not particularly effective and not thought worthwhile until far more recently; chicken-pox vaccine was invented in 1974...

    Telling people who were living then what it was like in the sixties is silly if you were not born until the nineties yourself, I feel.

    Report message29

  • Message 130

    , in reply to message 129.

    Posted by dickie (U2267358) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    For the benefit of Sunny, who probably won't believe it.

    I was adopted as a baby by a middle class couple in 1954. My father was a partner in a haulage business in Widnes and there was no question of my mother working. There was always enough money for necessities, to allow my father to run a car, and for the annual seaside holiday.

    No central heating or fridge until the early 1960's - and then the heating was only downstairs.

    My mother had a Hotpoint washing machine, effectively a container which had to be filled from the tap, with a paddle to agitate it, together with a wringer. The weekly wash was all done within an hour, using the same water for four successive loads.

    One bath a week, clothes changed only when necessary. The idea of clean clothes every day would have been greeted with incomprehension.

    I was vaccinated against diptheria and polio (the great scourge - one often saw children in leg irons) but within a three year period contracted whooping cough, chickenpox, measles and mumps.

    My primary school was a mid 19th century building, with outside privies and a wall to urinate against. My parents chose it carefully - it wasn't the nearest to our home but was considered to have a better class of pupil

    I was good enough academically to win a scholarship to a direct grant grammar school and went on to university. The grant at the time was perfectly adequate to live on - indeed, I was able to save.

    When I was about 7, we visited my uncle who was a methodist minister in Muswell Hill. His manse seemed palatial - it was subsequently sold by the church and purchased as a home by a pop star. I was warned that I would see black people in London (I'd never encountered anyone who wasn't white before then).

    Prejudice was overt: my mother made plain her dislike for Catholics, Jews and coloured people. This was quite common at the time.

    Like it or not, this is how it was.

    Report message30

  • Message 131

    , in reply to message 121.

    Posted by kissedbough (U14269224) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Oh yesss, I remember it well! Especially the Sunday evening bath and hairwash!!! In a freezing bathroom, no central heating, no heating - period! Those were the daze.....................

    Report message31

  • Message 132

    , in reply to message 131.

    Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    My parent's 1962 built house was one of 10 newbuild detatched houses - not for the rich but a bit better than the standard semi of the day.

    Only they and one other paid the extra to have central heating built in. Solid fueled, though the house had town gas. Presumably too expensive!

    Report message32

  • Message 133

    , in reply to message 132.

    Posted by sunnysakasredux (U14979019) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Sorry to have offended you all I didn't mean to!
    But lots of very clever people think there is a problem with the gap between the very rich and poor now and social mobility will be harder.
    I know it was grim, equal pay for women didn't come in until 1970 homosexuality (for men ) was a crime, teachers were allowed to beat kids, no legal abortions before 1967 etc.. capital punishment! We saw Vera Drake and the film about the hangman in PPE!
    But the rich gran's house is always cold plus Dad had a hard upbringing so I have had it all from him and his sisters! I can't help my background, neither could Sharon which is why Pat is a snob. She wasn't too proud to beg from a sister-in-law she holds in contempt, nor take a loan, she is in no hurry to pay back, from another sister-in-law she feels equal contempt for. Hellin's attitude that her dictates should take precedence over everyone else in her immediate circle is learned behaviour from Pat I think.

    Your stories are interesting. I wasn't meaning to trash all the over 50s fgs! I just think Pat is a type like the beeb. Think as I think but don't do as I do. She has faux liberal principles and looks down on people.
    Clarrie, Susan, Jenny, LIlian. She and Catheter make a good pair of with their twin sneering.

    Please accept my apologies I didn't mean to cause offence.
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Report message33

  • Message 134

    , in reply to message 133.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    My life -- and there are people on this board who don't seem to understand why sakas might be well-liked!

    If you manage to retain the ability to say "ooops: I blew it! Sorry!" you may well find your life a lot earier because of it, that's what I say.

    Report message34

  • Message 135

    , in reply to message 132.

    Posted by Almond_Aire (U2259917) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    My parents' first house was brand new in about 1956. Before then we had lived in a flat in my grandmother's house. The flat was self-contained as a kitchen had been added, but everyone in the house shared the same bathroom.

    Neither the new house nor the old house with the flat had central heating. The new house had an open fire in the sitting room and a stove with a back boiler (to heat the water) in the dining kitchen. My parents never had central heating installed in that house. So I remember Jack Frost patterns on the inside of the windows in winter, and huddling over an electric heater to get dressed on dark mornings when going to school in winter. The bathroom had an electric wall heater, but took ages to get warm.

    Mum's original washing machine had a wringer on the back of it (in fact I saw its clone in the recent TV series about living with the Amish). Later she got one of the early automatics, bypassing the then popular twin-tub.

    We didn't get a car till I was in my teens. We didn't get *a* TV till I was about 7. In those days it was all B&W, and no daytime TV. It started around 4 or 5 with children's programmes on BBC and ITV, with an hour or so in the morning for tiny tots. When BBC2 began, it was only on from 7 p.m. OH and I didn't get a colour TV till about 1978. Early colour TVs seen at university had awful picture quality, either too blue or too red.

    We didn't have a fridge till I was at secondary school. We had a pantry that was quite cold, and Grandma had a cool cellar. In summer Mum put the milk in a bucket of cold water. I remember Ski fruit yoghurts first becoming popular when I was at secondary school. Sometimes they went off because it was a warm summer and we still didn't have a fridge till I was well into my teens.

    We also used to bake ourselves in the sun, and if we wore sun cream or sun oil it was Factor 2 or 4.

    Alma.

    Report message35

  • Message 136

    , in reply to message 133.

    Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Apols accepted Sunny!

    Some things have got better IMHO.

    I agree also - some things are worse now - I never remember seeing young people sleeping on the streets and I never remember seeing young people blotto from XS alcohol. And yes I *do* know that alcoholism was rife in the early 1900s.

    And I think that drug problems are worse now than in the 50s and 60s. Some people think that was because of a Certain Act of Parliament in the 1960s

    And yes - the gap between rich and poor is increasing and social mobility is more difficult.

    IMHO `The permissive Society' had both good and bad sides. We saw the bad side in Thatcherism and still see it in the reckless and risky (for other people) pursuit of wealth by the financial institutions `If we make rules they'll all move away ..'

    JPBS

    Report message36

  • Message 137

    , in reply to message 112.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Oh yes JustPresident. The fall out from one's children's choice of lovers can have very far reaching ripples Their parents and other members of the family are often affected by these.

    Report message37

  • Message 138

    , in reply to message 133.

    Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Clarrie, Susan, Jenny, LIlian. She and Catheter make a good pair of with their twin sneering.  I don't remember her sneering exactly? Complaining about perhaps - and overlooking as in Susans position vis a vis The Shop. But not sneering - that is not the same

    ...And so far as I remember Kathy has never sneered .. though she's complained about Kenton.

    Saying `Susan is the biggest gossip in the village' is not sneering - just telling the truth IMHO! Though Susan hasn't told anyone apart from Neil ..
    JPBS


    Report message38

  • Message 139

    , in reply to message 136.

    Posted by sunnysakasredux (U14979019) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Thanks JPBSxx I am not doing a nic with clarrie. Lots of you helped me keep going when I was revising last year and the stories are interesting.
    anna pax? I know I am privileged but I am privileged 'cos I have great parents, the money is fun but I love my paternal grandad just as much as the rich 2! He is loads of fun and dad says he wasn't like that when he was young! So maybe that is a generational thing, maybe that is why Pat is so obsessed with grandchildren maybe she realises she screwed up with her own kids.
    I wasn't protected I have friends from all backgrounds and I know there is very real poverty out there. Plus I like Jenny and Lil more than Pat.
    They are kinder! Lil was kind to Eddie when she bought the gnomes then gave them out as gifts! Jenny was kind to Annette when she came looking for Alice, Jenny tried hard not to condescend to Clarrie when she invited her for tea in Underwoods and offered to pay.

    I really am sorry. Just had a rubbish day 'cos my car has died and it is sort of my fault. Plus I don't have the sort of parents like some of my middle class friends who will just buy me another one. My grandads are all generous rich and poor the grannies are very rigid with their largesse.when it is money but generous when it is advicexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    hi baubles and chrisx lovely story almond you almondxxxxx

    It is just the road to nowhere we all seem to be on. Asda wants everyone to be festive but it is only closed on Christmas Day.
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Report message39

  • Message 140

    , in reply to message 110.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Grandparents can be a rock and the only stability in a child's life during the breakup of a relationship. My children's grandparents certainly were. They made so much difference to my children's lives when my husband left me. And I managed to maintain a good relationship with my children's paternal granny for 40 years after my split with her son until her death at 94.This was achievedby us both being pleasantfor the sake of the children. Having said that, eventually, our relationship became for its own sake.

    sunny, of course middle class Alice succeeded in a world determined by the middle class! The working class don't tend to define what is valued in society. At least they haven'tin the past. They are determining it more and more.

    Still love ya! You are a very good example of a middle class upbringing. They don't get everything wrong.

    Report message40

  • Message 141

    , in reply to message 137.

    Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Oh yes JustPresident. The fall out from one's children's choice of lovers can have very far reaching ripples Their parents and other members of the family are often affected by these.  Yes babushka!

    I remember a friend saying that one of the most important things in your child's life is their choice of Life Partner
    JPBS

    Report message41

  • Message 142

    , in reply to message 141.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Sometimes, when a parent is absent it is sometimes their parents who pick up the pieces. They are sometimes the only ones around to this.


    I can't see that it would hurt Rich to have contact with another relative who shares his genetic inheritance. It is comforting to have family that share your traits and I know you don't have to be brought up with them to share these traits.

    Report message42

  • Message 143

    , in reply to message 139.

    Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Don't agree about Jenny Sunny!

    Yes - she was nice to Clarrie - but that was a one off I think.

    I remember her absolutely appalling treatment of Betty when the latter was a `help' at her house. Poor Betty put some cutlery in the dishwasher that she shouldn't have. Jenny made Betty PAY for said cutlery ... Betty and her family were on their uppers at the time.

    I could mention numerous other examples too.

    And I think she was horrid to Tony when he came to see her. Maybe he was hoping for a lend - maybe he was hoping for just sympathy - but she gave him NOTHING. I can understand her not helping him with a loan - but she evidently thought that because she couldn't help him that way she could do NOTHING. Yeuch ..
    JPBS

    Report message43

  • Message 144

    , in reply to message 133.

    Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    I know it was grim, equal pay for women didn't come in until 1970 homosexuality (for men ) was a crime, teachers were allowed to beat kids, no legal abortions before 1967 etc. 

    Hi Sakas - you didn't offend me! Some sensitive types here methinks. Unbelievably; even MOI sometimes offends some souls!!!

    It was not grim. We were living in the modern era, with the benefit if the latest technology. Everyone always is at the time.

    The idea that a family should live on what father earned was far from bad. If we did it now house prices would be lower and little else change.

    Many kids today need beating. It leads to learning in class and not needing to downgrade standards.

    Ditto Capital Punishment. Which seems to me far more humane than lifetime incarceration. And cheaper.

    Decriminalising sodomy and abortion was correct. Now when will we do it with drugs too?

    Did you listen tonight. I have for some time been arguing Pat's corner (ghastly though she is). Now she has been allowed her own words.

    AND she is NOT "stalking" Rich.

    Next move to the menfolk concerned, I suspect.

    BTW, wossername is pregnant. I have it on good authority.

    Report message44

  • Message 145

    , in reply to message 143.

    Posted by sunnysakasredux (U14979019) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    Don't agree about Jenny Sunny!

    Yes - she was nice to Clarrie - but that was a one off I think.

    I remember her absolutely appalling treatment of Betty when the latter was a `help' at her house. Poor Betty put some cutlery in the dishwasher that she shouldn't have. Jenny made Betty PAY for said cutlery ... Betty and her family were on their uppers at the time.

    I could mention numerous other examples too.

    And I think she was horrid to Tony when he came to see her. Maybe he was hoping for a lend - maybe he was hoping for just sympathy - but she gave him NOTHING. I can understand her not helping him with a loan - but she evidently thought that because she couldn't help him that way she could do NOTHING. Yeuch ..
    JPBS

     
    Well I didn't know about that Bunnyx I only really remember Betty being kind to Emma when everyone else was shunning her. Then Betty died after she collected holly for Phoebe? I didn't know she was employed by Jenny as a "help". That was very graceless of Jenny and very wrong! I shall have to revise my opinion of Jenny. I think I just get a bit defensive for my posh mum 'cos sometimes some of the boarders don't like the posh! I know if I were Rich and heard the way Patantone talk about Sharon I would not want to see them ever! Pat rides everyone in her house too hard she needs softer hands. Pat is rigid still Dr Toad has offered her a place in his Abbey place which has re-located to Lake Como. Which is a superior sort of Wales imo! Although Wales is lovely and has a mountain and great beaches and many other things.

    I am stunned Jenny made Betty pay! That is so wrong did Brian know? I am sure Brian wouldn't have condoned that. Brian has lots of faults but he has manners, even if they are superficial he was a legend when he spoke to Susan about the shop.
    Must go have work to do. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Report message45

  • Message 146

    , in reply to message 144.

    Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    No she is not stalking Rich - but making herself miserable by picking at it all the time ... just as Kathy said she would. She is also making everyone else miserable as well - Tony in particular.

    And yes Sharon was far from being a saint - but harping on over how bad she was is not doing any good either. Bitterness really only hurts the embittered one IMHO
    JPBS

    Report message46

  • Message 147

    , in reply to message 139.

    Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    I really am sorry. Just had a rubbish day 'cos my car has died and it is sort of my fault. Plus I don't have the sort of parents like some of my middle class friends who will just buy me another one. My grandads are all generous rich and poor the grannies are very rigid with their largesse.when it is money but generous when it is advicexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    hi baubles and chrisx lovely story almond you almondxxxxx 


    Sort of no oil fault? Or ran into wall? You can tell us. Most of us have probably done it ourselves - several times!

    Old but working cars seem to be dirt cheap these days. Thought it was the insurance that costs? And can transfer that!

    Report message47

  • Message 148

    , in reply to message 144.

    Posted by NotsoTinyTim (U2256329) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    < wossername is pregnant >

    By "wossername" OI, do you mean the recently ubiquitous Nicky Nause? Heaven forfend, not another bluddy Grundy infant! Or rather, not another bluddy TA infant full stop.

    Report message48

  • Message 149

    , in reply to message 145.

    Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Sunday, 11th December 2011


    I am stunned Jenny made Betty pay! That is so wrong did Brian know? I am sure Brian wouldn't have condoned that. Brian has lots of faults but he has manners, even if they are superficial he was a legend when he spoke to Susan about the shop. 

    Brian pawed Betty - in no way was he a gentleman. Tried to make her number 3 mistress - There is a clip of it somewhere on the board. She ran away from him in tears and left her job. Someone told him off about it - I can't remember who! Betty later worked for Lynda - where she found decent terms of service.

    And yes - Brian was very good at handling Susan at the Shop Committee. However Susan wasn't so vulnerable was she? And maybe Brian has learned better
    JPBS

    Report message49

  • Message 150

    , in reply to message 147.

    Posted by sunnysakasredux (U14979019) on Sunday, 11th December 2011

    A sort of no oil fault O Icon! My dad has been through it all with me today.
    Relived I didn't run into a wall, bit fed up at having to get up at the crack of dawn to come and help me, sympathetic but not sympathetic. But I am working and looking for a banger replacement. Bet Hellin has a car oh no! she has a driver like Titcombe? What has happened to him did he get buried with Nigel? I didn't hear it tonight. More Nic!!!!!!!! more Pat!!!
    Perhaps RIch will get rich and help patantone in their old age! Pat cashed in her pension.
    Glad I didn't offend you btw!
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Report message50

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