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Mixed messages for George.

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Messages: 1 - 50 of 62
  • Message 1. 

    Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Sunday, 16th October 2011

    He's getting all these at the same time, I think -

    Mummy and Daddy love you.
    They look after you.
    They teach you what is right and what is wrong.
    They only let nice grown-ups be your friend.
    They keep horrible people (and monsters) away from you.
    They want Uncle Clive to be your friend.
    They say that stealing is wrong.
    Uncle Clive's presents are nice.
    Uncle Clive doesn't have a job.
    Mummy and Daddy get all upset when you ask why Uncle Clive has been away.
    Mummy and Daddy get all upset when you ask why some people say that Uncle Clive is a bad man.

    Poor little George.

    And to think that air-head Emma is being self-important about what bed-time story he has read to him...

    Are there any messages I've forgotten?

    Report message1

  • Message 2

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Sunday, 16th October 2011

    It isn't *quite* that bad, c-b, because he knows very well that Uncle Clive was a burglar, so he is capable of working out that Uncle Clive was in prison; and he knows that what Uncle Clive did was bad, because Uncle Clive told him so.

    I think perhaps someone ought to tell him that Uncle Clive wasn't only a burglar, though he did steal from people's houses; he was also a person who mutilated a horse so that it had to be killed to put it out of its suffering, and did terrible damage to several others, and that he set fire to a house when two elderly women were inside it because he wanted to kill the man George was named after.

    Children of six are a lot less afraid of that sort of information than their sentimental mothers would like to believe, as a rule.

    Report message2

  • Message 3

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Sunday, 16th October 2011

    If he had worked out that Clive had been in prison, Chris, his 6-year-old brain can't have the knowledge that Prison is a Bad Place and that Burglars Go To Prison, because one would have hoped that that knowledge would have stopped him alarming Will and Nic by saying that he wanted to be a burglar when he grew up.

    Report message3

  • Message 4

    , in reply to message 3.

    Posted by JacksParakeetBeingDe-Nested (U2979858) on Sunday, 16th October 2011

    Has someone let him watch/hear gangsta songs? These glorify misogny, prostitution,drugs, and the acquisition of consumer bling which, it implies, makes all the foregoing good things.
    .

    jp

    Report message4

  • Message 5

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by FancyAnnie (U2673526) on Sunday, 16th October 2011

    I think perhaps someone ought to tell him that Uncle Clive wasn't only a burglar, though he did steal from people's houses; he was also a person who mutilated a horse so that it had to be killed to put it out of its suffering, and did terrible damage to several others, and that he set fire to a house when two elderly women were inside it because he wanted to kill the man George was named after. 

    Just what I was thinking!

    Report message5

  • Message 6

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by sunnysakasredux (U14979019) on Sunday, 16th October 2011

    It isn't *quite* that bad, c-b, because he knows very well that Uncle Clive was a burglar, so he is capable of working out that Uncle Clive was in prison; and he knows that what Uncle Clive did was bad, because Uncle Clive told him so.

    I think perhaps someone ought to tell him that Uncle Clive wasn't only a burglar, though he did steal from people's houses; he was also a person who mutilated a horse so that it had to be killed to put it out of its suffering, and did terrible damage to several others, and that he set fire to a house when two elderly women were inside it because he wanted to kill the man George was named after.

    Children of six are a lot less afraid of that sort of information than their sentimental mothers would like to believe, as a rule. 
    Hi chris and everyone elsexx
    I am walking from the archers again ambiextra as well. This story is so and Iam in danger of losing my sense of humour over it. I heard it tonight, girl on my staircase is a big fan she tweets about it! Hearing Oliver being so calm when it was caroline's horse that had to be put down.
    If it was in my step-grandad's village I think David would have used the shotgun or clive would be strange fruit in Oliver's orchard. Plus it makes a mockery of the probation system in this country. Mixed messages for George alright. The whole village seems to have become South African in their blanket acceptance of clive. Poison Ivy must join the great majority soon and take her horse torturing arsonist son with her.
    Off out have a lovely eveningxxx

    Report message6

  • Message 7

    , in reply to message 6.

    Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Sunday, 16th October 2011

    Evening, Sunny!

    Yes, if, as you say, "The whole village seems to have become South African in their blanket acceptance of Clive", perhaps we need a "Truth and Reconciliation Commission" in Ambridge?

    Report message7

  • Message 8

    , in reply to message 7.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Sunday, 16th October 2011

    A bit more truth and a bit less reconciliation.

    I suddenly realised, on another thread: the one thing of the bad things he has done for which Clive seems *not* to have been imprisoned was burglary. Armed robbery, six years. Grievous Bodily Harm, five years. Mutilation of horses, one of which had to be killed as a result, four months. Arson, twelve years. But nothing for the burglaries he committed while he was breaking the terms of his licence last time, and got reported by George Barford whom he then had a go at killing and ended up with GBH. I'm surprised he didn't indignantly deny being a burglar at all!

    Report message8

  • Message 9

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Elasticwoman (U14774739) on Sunday, 16th October 2011

    It isn't *quite* that bad, c-b, because he knows very well that Uncle Clive was a burglar, so he is capable of working out that Uncle Clive was in prison; and he knows that what Uncle Clive did was bad, because Uncle Clive told him so.

    I think perhaps someone ought to tell him that Uncle Clive wasn't only a burglar, though he did steal from people's houses; he was also a person who mutilated a horse so that it had to be killed to put it out of its suffering, and did terrible damage to several others, and that he set fire to a house when two elderly women were inside it because he wanted to kill the man George was named after.

    Children of six are a lot less afraid of that sort of information than their sentimental mothers would like to believe, as a rule. 
    Clive was also responsible for getting George's grandmother Susan banged up. Not quite as glamorous as burglary to a 6 year old, I would have thought.

    Report message9

  • Message 10

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by A Frend (U2249422) on Sunday, 16th October 2011

    Clive commits robberies with violence. Good role model there, George.

    Report message10

  • Message 11

    , in reply to message 9.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Sunday, 16th October 2011

    None of the things Clive has done are glamorous if presented in the right way.

    The most exciting would be the Post Office raid, but the fact that he was so stupid that he tried to rob the one post office in the country in which it was absolutely certain that he would be recognised makes it dumb rather than glamorous, I think, so long as it is told properly.

    Report message11

  • Message 12

    , in reply to message 10.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Sunday, 16th October 2011

    A Frend, no, Clive *tries* to commit robbery with violence, and makes a mess of it! He is a *failure* as a villain. He always gets caught, usually because he has been stupid.

    Report message12

  • Message 13

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Dinah Shore (U14984316) on Sunday, 16th October 2011

    Are there any messages I've forgotten? 

    10) It is perfectly OK to play "robbers" when your doting Dad thinks you are being Allen Ahlberg's "Burglar Bill," but woe betide you are being great Uncle Clive, burgling Granny Susan's Shop.

    Report message13

  • Message 14

    , in reply to message 13.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    I think most children by the age of six-and-a-half are able to tell truth from lie and fact from fantasy. If George cannot tell that difference, they probably have more troubles to come with him than merely being related to a very stupid sociopath.

    The particular message is a good one, in fact, since it is demonstrating that the difference exists.

    Report message14

  • Message 15

    , in reply to message 14.

    Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    Well yes - George is mixing up fact and fantasy in his games. Cause for concern - yes.

    He was probably told `burglary' in his conversations with Great Granny Ivy as a euphemism . And no - I wouldn't tell him what Clive had really done. Maybe a bit more than just `burglary' though.

    I think telling them about his slashing horses would be too much. I remember a horrid little girl telling me stuff gave me nightmares.
    JPBS

    Report message15

  • Message 16

    , in reply to message 13.

    Posted by A Frend (U2249422) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    "...but woe betide you are being great Uncle Clive, burgling Granny Susan's Shop."

    It wasn't burglary although that'd be bad enough, it was robbery in the course of which he used a gun and took people hostage.

    I wonder if the SW team know this or do they think that a little thing like a murderous man returning to a village he has terrorised before is something that people like Olly and Jimus think of a vaguely amusing?

    Report message16

  • Message 17

    , in reply to message 15.

    Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    As to Clive being allowed around Ambridge unsupervised and unaccompanied - I've asked about this on `Notes and Queries'
    JPBS

    Report message17

  • Message 18

    , in reply to message 17.

    Posted by cherrytree (U9175528) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    As to Clive being allowed around Ambridge unsupervised and unaccompanied - I've asked about this on `Notes and Queries'
    JPBS 
    Well done Bunnikins. I hope you get a sensible answer soon.

    Report message18

  • Message 19

    , in reply to message 18.

    Posted by Lowena (U14575314) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    If they read him" Burglar Bill" as a bedtime story ( or, if in fact he reads it himself at school, I'm not surprised he wants to be a burglar......the funny part will be when he asks Betty if she is Burglar Betty" that B Bill ends up marrying

    Report message19

  • Message 20

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by cherrytree (U9175528) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    I love Burglar Bill. He sees the "error of his ways" though and becomes Bakery Bill and although he pinches a lot of stuff including the baby of course, he is never the really nasty piece of work that Clive is.

    Report message20

  • Message 21

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    He'll need to be an accomplished medium to ask Betty anything!

    Report message21

  • Message 22

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by pollyanna (U7304225) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    [It isn't *quite* that bad, c-b, because he knows very well that Uncle Clive was a burglar,]

    Forgive me if I have missed something, or if this has been addressed else-thread, but how does George know his great uncle was a burglar and generally all round baddie? Who told him and when? Did he know before he met great uncle Clive?

    Report message22

  • Message 23

    , in reply to message 22.

    Posted by Fi of little faith (U14298768) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    I was just going to ask the same thing, polly. Surely, if he had been in prison for all of George's life its not something that would be mentioned in the course of everyday chat?

    Report message23

  • Message 24

    , in reply to message 23.

    Posted by pollyanna (U7304225) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    Yes Fi, I have been trying hard to imagine a scenario in which one would feel the need to tell a six year old (or younger) that his great uncle, who he'd never met, was in prison for burglary and worse. Or even why he'd have to be told that before meeting the said great uncle.

    I'm all for giving children as much information as possible when they ask for it, but I cannot believe George ever said: 'Oh by the way, have I any great uncles in prison for burglary? or, 'This relative I'm about to meet, has he recently come out of jail ?' Couldn't Clive have been introduced to George simply as a relative he's never met before? I honestly don't understand why a six year old has to be told that sort of detail about people;; in fact most six year olds are not very interested in other people, only in how those other people relate them. At age six the world still very much revolves around ourselves,

    I don't believe in lying to children but I don't believe either in burdening very young children with information they don't need and possibly might be disturbing to them.

    Report message24

  • Message 25

    , in reply to message 24.

    Posted by Fi of little faith (U14298768) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    Agreed. At that age, I don't ever recall my children asking "What is so and so's job?" or indeed myself saying "Girls, it is very important that you understand this. Your auntie is an accountant"

    Report message25

  • Message 26

    , in reply to message 24.

    Posted by Lakey_Hill (U14391672) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    I don't think that Ed and Emma knew how George knew about Clive. I suppose that it's not impossible that he had heard it being discussed by adults, maybe when at Ivy's (she seems besotted enough by Clive to have talked about him regularly).

    Report message26

  • Message 27

    , in reply to message 26.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    I'd say probably Ivy, probably in the context "everyone has it in for Clive just because he was a burglar".

    However it was that he knew, know he certainly did, and nobody has denied it. So that particular message wasn't mixed.

    Report message27

  • Message 28

    , in reply to message 9.

    Posted by Pat Shed (U4664057) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    Clive was also responsible for getting George's grandmother Susan banged up. 

    Susan was responsible for that. Having a sibling as a criminal does not make you a criminal: that's personal choise.

    Report message28

  • Message 29

    , in reply to message 28.

    Posted by sunnysakasredux (U14979019) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    Clive was also responsible for getting George's grandmother Susan banged up. 

    Susan was responsible for that. Having a sibling as a criminal does not make you a criminal: that's personal choise. 
    Yet do I fear Susan's nature was too full of the milk of human kindness (unlike some people's) to catch the nearest way. ie; phone plodd.
    Or maybe Susan was just more concerned for her kids' safety.
    Some of us are just so safe on the moral high ground poor Susan banged up for putting her kids first. I am with Susan in the tent in on the moral low ground here. Quality of mercy etc...
    xxxx
    Ps: I thought that BB book was boring much preferred William Brown and his Outlaws. William would have seen Cloive off.
    ciaoxxx

    Report message29

  • Message 30

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by cherrytree (U9175528) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    Burglar Bill was written for much younger readers that William Brown.

    Report message30

  • Message 31

    , in reply to message 30.

    Posted by sunnysakasredux (U14979019) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    Burglar Bill was written for much younger readers that William Brown.  Well that wouldn't be hard as William Brown was originally written for adults! LOL! Sometimes kids like what they like not what some adults (especially teachers!) think they should like. William Brown would sort Clive out and Lynda and some of the other ambridge pedants as well.

    Report message31

  • Message 32

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by Pat Shed (U4664057) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    Yet do I fear Susan's nature was too full of the milk of human kindness (unlike some people's) to catch the nearest way. ie; phone plodd.
    Or maybe Susan was just more concerned for her kids' safety.
    Some of us are just so safe on the moral high ground poor Susan banged up for putting her kids first. I am with Susan in the tent in on the moral low ground here. Quality of mercy etc... 


    I'm not sure how having a mother who's a convicted criminal and goes to prison means the children were put first. Nor am I sure how allowing someone like Clive (as he then was) to stay in the family home constitutes putting the children first. I would have thought that if her children were her primary concern she would (a) have made sure Clive was put out of harm's way in police custody rather than sleeping snugly in her house, and (b) avoided the temptation to become a jailbird herself.

    For my money, what she did was put Clive first, and her children very firmly second at best.

    Report message32

  • Message 33

    , in reply to message 31.

    Posted by cherrytree (U9175528) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    I don't think it's even worth comparing the two things. It's all a matter of taste. Anyway there are many things in the glorious Burglar Bill that only an adult can appreciate. On the other hand, Martin Jarvis reading any of the William books is a treat not to be missed.

    Report message33

  • Message 34

    , in reply to message 32.

    Posted by sunnysakasredux (U14979019) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    Yet do I fear Susan's nature was too full of the milk of human kindness (unlike some people's) to catch the nearest way. ie; phone plodd.
    Or maybe Susan was just more concerned for her kids' safety.
    Some of us are just so safe on the moral high ground poor Susan banged up for putting her kids first. I am with Susan in the tent in on the moral low ground here. Quality of mercy etc... 


    I'm not sure how having a mother who's a convicted criminal and goes to prison means the children were put first. Nor am I sure how allowing someone like Clive (as he then was) to stay in the family home constitutes putting the children first. I would have thought that if her children were her primary concern she would (a) have made sure Clive was put out of harm's way in police custody rather than sleeping snugly in her house, and (b) avoided the temptation to become a jailbird herself.

    For my money, what she did was put Clive first, and her children very firmly second at best. 
    Well as I said Susan's nature was too full of the milk of human kindness to catch the nearest way.
    I so envy people who live on the moral high ground are never wrong and so sure of their moral superiority. It must make life so easy. Bit like Thomas Moore he was so sure he was right as well. Susan maybe was scared of her brother and thought he would hurt her children or maybe Susan loved her brother and thought he meant no harm. Whatever I only heard her being sentenced to prison in the vintage episodes they broadcast at the new year. I doubt Susan would have been given a custodial sentence anyway. It would probably have been suspended or community service. But maybe Susan had compassion or sympathy for her sibling or maybe she was just scared.

    Yes well William Brown was written for adults and children found lots in it for them. Just as lots of adults find things they like in kids' books. Happy result imo. I agree about the martin jarvis cds he has brings William and his outlaws to life.
    ciaox

    Report message34

  • Message 35

    , in reply to message 32.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    I seem to remember that when she showed unwillingness to help him, Clive threatened to hurt the children if she didn't do as he said.

    The second time he turned up demanding that she help him (because he had burnt himself badly making a mess of a simple firebombing and needed to be bandaged) the children were at school, so it must have been on the occasion on which he got her into stir that he was a ble to threaten them.

    Report message35

  • Message 36

    , in reply to message 35.

    Posted by sunnysakasredux (U14979019) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    I seem to remember that when she showed unwillingness to help him, Clive threatened to hurt the children if she didn't do as he said.

    The second time he turned up demanding that she help him (because he had burnt himself badly making a mess of a simple firebombing and needed to be bandaged) the children were at school, so it must have been on the occasion on which he got her into stir that he was a ble to threaten them. 
    Oh thanks chrisxx Guessed you would know. Jailbird? Is that a sexist, pejorative for females who have been to prison or is it a non gender specific generic term for anyone who has been in the slammer? Could Cloive be called a jailbird for instance. Too busy to look it up and I am sure you know. I am on team Susan or at least I was until she caved into Poison Ivy over letting Clive get to know her grandchildren.
    INo wonder George is getting mixed messages Jack and the Beanstalk and BB! What's wrong with Winnie the Pooh?
    Off now hope you have a happy eveningxx
    wave to carrick if you come back. xxx

    Report message36

  • Message 37

    , in reply to message 36.

    Posted by anna kist (U2314477) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    jailbird is non gender specific, Sunny.

    Report message37

  • Message 38

    , in reply to message 36.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    I didn't really like Winnie-ther-Pooh when I was the "right" age for it, sakas, because I found it patronising. The author seemed to be being "knowing" at me, and I didn't like the woozles and the wizzles or whatever they were called, because I was not prepared to believe that anyone would be that stupid.

    Much later, I discovered that Christopher Robin Milne (poor, poor boy: it was his real name, and he was sent away to school...) found it pretty offensive as well, because he wasn't like that at all, he was a sensible and efficient person and the child A.A. Milne was writing about was in fact A.A. Milne himself, so giving this wet younger-self the name of his son was unfair. I think the train that didn't work was the thing that rankled particularly: I remember that CR remarked bitterly that if it had been *his* train it *would* have worked.

    I thought that Burglar Bill was a picture book; isn't Georgie getting on a bit for a picture book to be his favourite bedtime story? Or does it have lots of text, and is illustrated? It seems to be a Picture Puffin, and those are heavy on picture and light on text as a rule, aren't they? I haven't ever encountered it, though once I have grandchildren I might do; my lot were a bit too old for it by 1999 when it came out.

    Report message38

  • Message 39

    , in reply to message 38.

    Posted by JudithL (U14272244) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    Tagging on...
    I have asked on another thread how on earth George seems to know all about his disreputable great-uncle, but no-one on that thread seemed to find it unusual.
    And although he must have some contact with Ivy, is she really so besotted with her son that she talks about his career to a six year old? Clive isn't exactly Kray twins, and part of a notorious criminal family - he's one very bad apple, and most families would try to keep him quiet, surely?

    Report message39

  • Message 40

    , in reply to message 39.

    Posted by anna kist (U2314477) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    There is none so blind as those who don't want to see. Ivy dotes on Clive apparently. Probably contributed to his behaviour over the years and I can well imagine her bigging him up to poor little George when he goes there for tea.

    Report message40

  • Message 41

    , in reply to message 39.

    Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    I expect there were pictures around Ivy's house - George asked where he was. Or maybe Gary told him. Or maybe he overheard Great Granny Ivy mentioning she could or couldn't visit him.

    Was thinking about problem of George and him knowing what Clive had done. I thought they might have told him a slightly shortened version of the story - that Clive had set fire to a house and that nice Mrs Archer (Pip, Ben and Josh's granny) could have died.

    Maybe ask George if he wanted to see Clive?

    Alternatively if Granny Ivy and Clive knew George was aware of Clive's crimes they might not be so keen on the meeting
    JPBS


    Report message41

  • Message 42

    , in reply to message 38.

    Posted by cherrytree (U9175528) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    Burglar Bill is one of the classic books by Alan and the late brilliantly talented Janet Ahlberg. Yes it has the customary Ahlberg pictures but also a text. I suppose it is intended for 4-6 year olds, but like many well written books it can be enjoyed by adults as well. There are cameos that would be lost on most children.
    Although it is written for the younger age group, I have had great fun (me dressed up as Burglar Betty} reading it to a whole primary school of extremely able children. Because it is so well written I think we all enjoyed it. (It was written a good time before 1999 by the way). I honestly think it is one of my favourite books of all time.

    Report message42

  • Message 43

    , in reply to message 42.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    I'm sorry about the 1999; that was the only date I could find attached to the book when I went looking around to try to find out what it was like -- what manner of book it was, I mean, not whether it was enjoyable or not because it clearly is!

    Further and more determined search has given me 1977, so it would have been around when my lot were. I can only assume that it wasn't the most-recent-shiniest in 1983 when the eldest started to demand books of that sort, so it wasn't in the bookshops nearby and I missed it. Bother.

    They did get Each Peach Pear Plum, is my only defence at this point!

    Report message43

  • Message 44

    , in reply to message 41.

    Posted by Lakey_Hill (U14391672) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    I imagine George overhearing conversations which none of the adults thought that he was listening to. Adults do sometimes forget that children are there, or assume that they won't hear or understand as much as they do.

    Report message44

  • Message 45

    , in reply to message 41.

    Posted by pollyanna (U7304225) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    [I thought they might have told him a slightly shortened version of the story - that Clive had set fire to a house and that nice Mrs Archer (Pip, Ben and Josh's granny) could have died.]

    Gawd and bennett how stupid must Ivy and the others be then if they talked about the fire setting at all in front of George.. No need for him to be told about that, just that his uncle had been in prison for burglary is surely enough for a six year old to know. Sometimes not giving the full information to children is not lying, just using the sense we as adults have to reach the decision to protect our children when necessary.

    I was probably even a bit older than George's when I was terrified about Father Christmas coming down the chimney (my logic said: if he can, so can anyone) until my parents came clean and told me it was a load of rubbish, so I dread to think how I'd have felt about knowing a man who went round setting fire to houses had visited my house.

    For me this is a very weak strand of the Clive storyline that just doesn't convince me. Or else they are a pretty dim family.

    Report message45

  • Message 46

    , in reply to message 41.

    Posted by pollyanna (U7304225) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    [I thought they might have told him a slightly shortened version of the story - that Clive had set fire to a house and that nice Mrs Archer (Pip, Ben and Josh's granny) could have died.]

    Gawd and bennett how stupid must Ivy and the others be then if they talked about the fire setting at all in front of George.. No need for him to be told about that, just that his uncle had been in prison for burglary is surely enough for a six year old to know. Sometimes not giving the full information to children is not lying, just using the ability we as adults have to reach the decision to protect our children when necessary.

    I was probably even a bit older than George's when I was terrified about Father Christmas coming down the chimney (my logic said: if he can, so can anyone) until my parents came clean and told me it was a load of rubbish, so I dread to think how I'd have felt about knowing a man who went round setting fire to houses had visited my house.

    For me this is a very weak strand of the Clive storyline that just doesn't convince me. Or else they are a pretty dim family.

    Report message46

  • Message 47

    , in reply to message 45.

    Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    For me this is a very weak strand of the Clive storyline that just doesn't convince me. Or else they are a pretty dim family. 

    It could be "and" rather than "or".

    Report message47

  • Message 48

    , in reply to message 46.

    Posted by JoinedPeetsBoard_Smeesues_too (U14519481) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    Hmm - I meant (as a possibility) that they should have told him about the fire setting*before* he came to visit them.

    Then if it terrified him - Clive doesn't visit..

    Only George does not regard Clive's burglary as serious does he? After Granny Ivy `bigging him up' how else are they to prevent George hero-worshipping Clive (even if he'd *not* visited ).
    JPBS

    Report message48

  • Message 49

    , in reply to message 3.

    Posted by joanhood (U14675750) on Monday, 17th October 2011

    If he had worked out that Clive had been in prison, Chris, his 6-year-old brain can't have the knowledge that Prison is a Bad Place and that Burglars Go To Prison, because one would have hoped that that knowledge would have stopped him alarming Will and Nic by saying that he wanted to be a burglar when he grew up.   I expect he will have had Burglar Bill read to him. My grandson loved it, I think it made him want to be a burglar. George may have thought Clive was a loveable character like him

    Report message49

  • Message 50

    , in reply to message 48.

    Posted by pollyanna (U7304225) on Tuesday, 18th October 2011

    [Then if it terrified him - Clive doesn't visit..]

    Children internalise things just as adults do. What goes on in his head might not be clear from his immediate behaviour. As a small child my daughter was terrified of clowns (I don't blame her, I also think they are pretty grotesque) but only told me this years later, and I felt terrible for having regularly taken her to the (non animal) circus that visited our area every year, thinking I was giving her a great childhood experience.

    I just don't understand why George needed to know, at this stage, at his age, anything about Clive's background, and think this George aspect of the Clive storyline is stretching an already pretty thin storyline into realms of the ridiculous.

    But I realise I am banging a lone drum on this, so will shut up about it now.

    Report message50

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