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For heaven's sake, Elizabeth!

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Messages: 1 - 50 of 272
  • Message 1. 

    Posted by damsonjamqueen (U2828847) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    What have you got to decide upon, no anaesthetic, just a local? It'll keep your heart going, you won't die and leave your children motherless. Will it hurt if it shocks you? You tiresome car, you are being ridiculous. This is 2011, not 1960 odd when the first heart transplant was performed. Anyway, I thought Jack had a pacemaker years ago? Think of your children, you silly moo.

    Damson

    Report message1

  • Message 2

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Auntie Molly (U14110968) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    Yes you'd think it was some high risk experimental procedure that was at issue, the way she was going on. What is the alternative to having it?

    Report message2

  • Message 3

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Buntysdaughter (U7084475) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    Yes, Damson, but it prolongs the me, me, me period, doesn't it. Give us a break !

    Report message3

  • Message 4

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Hot Cross Nun (U13860520) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    I thought she objected most strongly to the thought of having a cigarette lighter implanted under her skin.

    The implication being that if you tweaked her nipple, flames would shoot out of her mouth, that type of thing.

    Perfectly understandable. I'm sure we've all been there.

    Report message4

  • Message 5

    , in reply to message 2.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    Auntie Molly, I mind me of a friend of mine who became diabetic in her sixties and went along to a training class to learn how to inject herself with insulin. There was a girl in her early twenties there, who wouldn't listen to the instructor. "Oh, no, I couldn't bear to do that, I'd rather die! she cried.

    "Yes, dear, that is the option," said my friend mildly, looking at the girl over her spectacles.

    Report message5

  • Message 6

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by NotsoTinyTim (U2256329) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    It's a very minor procedure, like a pacemaker. So minor that you don't even need a general anaesthetic. And the person who has the procedure scarcely notices it in their normal life.

    The woman's bluddy mad. She doesn't like the idea of Lily and Freddie seeing if the device gives her an electric shock. They would get a bigger shock if she didn't have the device and then dropped down dead in front of them.

    But I suppose that the SLs have got to prolong the agony ....

    Report message6

  • Message 7

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Poorgrass (U12099742) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    My mother was in hospital for over a month when she had her defibrillating pacemaker fitted, so although it may be different for different individuals it certainly isn't a trivial procedure. Last time they checked it it had gone off several times but she hadn't noticed all of them.

    Interesting to see whether Lizzard is on private medicine or going NHS. If she is private, I hope that her cover is good - defibrillating pacemakers are VERY expensive.

    Report message7

  • Message 8

    , in reply to message 7.

    Posted by My Mum is turning in her grave (U13137565) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    I think she's on a public ward - one of the children asked if the other people kept her awake snoring.

    Report message8

  • Message 9

    , in reply to message 7.

    Posted by damsonjamqueen (U2828847) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    I was in hospital for five weeks after a triple bypass about four years ago. Believe me, there is no question of "will I won't I" when you get to that stage. If you have young children as Lizzie does, you would go through a great deal just to make sure you're alive to see them producing grandchildren for you. I see no dilemma for her whatsoever.

    Damson

    Report message9

  • Message 10

    , in reply to message 8.

    Posted by Sallyruth (U14589711) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    4 beds in her ward, they said (including hers, presumably.

    The others have silent visitors, and Lizzie doesn''t gossip about them, and describe their illnesses and treatments, does she? Will she need hankies, shampoo, tampax, face wipes, paper knickers, a decent hairbrush, her own bedjacket...?

    Report message10

  • Message 11

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by Auntie Molly (U14110968) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    Brilliant Chris.

    Report message11

  • Message 12

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by toffee (U8026926) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    The implication being that if you tweaked her nipple, flames would shoot out of her mouth, that type of thing.

    -------------------------

    LOL The picture that conjures up is hilarious!

    Report message12

  • Message 13

    , in reply to message 9.

    Posted by DracoM1 (U14252039) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    Look, come on guys, it's not 'elizabeth', it's the SWs desperate to stretch out and wring every last drop from the material out driving this, isn't it? So now we've got a hospital soap, a courttiong soap with Jamie about to crash the party and start reacting? A legal soap - inquest etc, a business soap eg LoLo, a tiny, tiny bit of agricultural soap, a Lent scam soap........oh, the FUN goes on endlessly- we are dizzied for choice?

    Not.

    A Jamie, I note, who is now anxious about homework Erm......WHAT?? How did that happen?/???

    Report message13

  • Message 14

    , in reply to message 9.

    Posted by Tooterdramaqueen (U14728396) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    I was in hospital for five weeks after a triple bypass about four years ago. Believe me, there is no question of "will I won't I" when you get to that stage. If you have young children as Lizzie does, you would go through a great deal just to make sure you're alive to see them producing grandchildren for you. I see no dilemma for her whatsoever.

    Damson 


    My OH has just had a by-pass - he was on the waiting list for it for 18 months and we ran to the post every day hoping the letter for admission would be there. If we had been told of a procedure that didn't involve cutting through his sternum etc, that would ensure he kept living, he would have jumped at it.

    Let's look at what she does need to think about. Do I want to live or not? Do I want to live without worrying my children and all around me or not?

    Not much to think about really is there.

    Report message14

  • Message 15

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by gingernut (U14737656) on Monday, 14th March 2011


    Oh, that did make me laugh!

    Mind you, if she has an artificial valve already, they make a noise - there was a woman I worked with who had one which made a loud tick and whirr - it was most offputting until you knew what it was.

    Report message15

  • Message 16

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Anglo-Norman (U1965016) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    She'll have it installed. Then, come summer, everyone will go for a swim in the Am, the device will short circuit and discharge through the highly conductive water, literally Shocking Ambridge To The Core...

    Report message16

  • Message 17

    , in reply to message 16.

    Posted by joleena (U2779256) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    Snorkisimo - can't wait for that epi!

    Report message17

  • Message 18

    , in reply to message 16.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    Snork. Very good.

    If the Lizard's current condition isn't just a fit of pique, is it connected to her erstwhile hole in the heart, or is it a brand new one? If it is new, why would it happen? Is it coincidence? I am confiused.

    Report message18

  • Message 19

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Bonjeenico (U11193987) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    (message 1) Absolutely. FandL have already lost one parent so the best thing that Elizabeth can do for them is to stay alive (not everyone might agree....)
    And get a manager in.

    Report message19

  • Message 20

    , in reply to message 6.

    Posted by Desperate (U14533525) on Monday, 14th March 2011


    But I suppose that the SLs have got to prolong the agony .... 


    Word cannot express the reulsion this all to true sentence filled me with.

    GRREEAAARRRGGHHHHH!!!!!!

    On the other hand, David needs to lighten up, she only just found out about it, give her a day or two before you start insisting to others they bully her into it when she hasn't even said no yet, jeez, just a couple of days to get her head round the idea, thats all.

    Report message20

  • Message 21

    , in reply to message 16.

    Posted by flamey nell (U14740877) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    Chuckle - i like the idea of Lizzie shortcircuiting in the Am.

    Report message21

  • Message 22

    , in reply to message 21.

    Posted by borchesterbouncer (U14738918) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    And maybe David is fly fishing at the very moment and gets shocked to the Cor! too?

    Report message22

  • Message 23

    , in reply to message 18.

    Posted by Happysadarchersfan (U2702014) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    Snork. Very good.

    If the Lizard's current condition isn't just a fit of pique, is it connected to her erstwhile hole in the heart, or is it a brand new one? If it is new, why would it happen? Is it coincidence? I am confiused.

     



    Yes, one minute she is fine, if annoying and grieving, the next minute a 'panic attack' and then we are onto pacemakers...does it normally happen so quickly? Wouldn't there be a build up of symptoms?

    What TOSH, why isn't she with Nigel anyway...?

    Report message23

  • Message 24

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by dickie (U2267358) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    Probably in a minority of one, but I wouldn't do something just because the consultant recommended it.

    I think that Elizabeth is absolutely right to think about it, to question the recommendation, to ask what alternatives there are and generally not to bow down before the great medical gods.

    Yes, it's very likely that she will ultimately accept their advice. But it should never be unquestioning acceptance, which is what other posters to this discussion appear to be advocating.

    Report message24

  • Message 25

    , in reply to message 24.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    dickie, somewhere on another thread that I can't for a moment locate, I have actually remarked mildly that I would want to know a bit more about this before I embarked on it.

    I think Jill insisting that the decision is for *Elizabeth* to make, not David, is absolutely right, anyhow.

    Report message25

  • Message 26

    , in reply to message 24.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    If the Lizard's doctors are the best in Britain, which of course they are, wouldn't they have given her the options? Perhaps there areonly two.
    The heart thingy or death. Perhaps she isn't particualrly fussed about living at the moment. People have wanted to die over less likely people than Nige...... And, unlike a lot of people, she has never been particularly driven by maternal feelings. I can't see that she ever had a lot of time to bond with her twins. She is totally selfish and I'm not sure they would anchor her to life.

    Report message26

  • Message 27

    , in reply to message 24.

    Posted by Nemo399 (U14258777) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    Probably in a minority of one, but I wouldn't do something just because the consultant recommended it.

    I think that Elizabeth is absolutely right to think about it, to question the recommendation, to ask what alternatives there are and generally not to bow down before the great medical gods.
     


    No, not a minority of one, because I agree completely with you, Dickie!

    There could be many possible alternatives to the treatment the medical staff have put forward and health professionals could be only too keen to fit the latest gadget, regardless of whether it would actually save your life.
    Personally, I think Lizzie is suffering from stress, more than anything else.

    Report message27

  • Message 28

    , in reply to message 27.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    A smacked bottom might 'cure' her.......

    If that doesn't work, and she is a serious case, how about a wet halibut..?

    Report message28

  • Message 29

    , in reply to message 18.

    Posted by Lady Macbeϯh - not without mustard (U550479) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    If the Lizard's current condition isn't just a fit of pique, is it connected to her erstwhile hole in the heart, or is it a brand new one? If it is new, why would it happen? Is it coincidence? I am confiused. 
    You aren't the only one who is confused.

    When Lizzard was born she had a 'hole-in-the-heart' - which at that time was a catch-all term for a 'blue' baby.

    Jill said that she had had 2 operations as a child. I cannot imagine that a straightforward hole would have required 2 operations, even 40-odd years ago, so me must assume that it was something more complex.

    She had a valve repair following the birth of the terrible twins - note 'repair' - not replacement.

    There is *no* medical reason for Lizzard's heart to suddenly collapse and need any variety of pacemaker as a result of her earlier problems.

    Sorry, but this is really getting my goat. I have a son with a much more complex CHD than Lizzard's and have been involved with CHD support for over 30 years.

    Report message29

  • Message 30

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    Actually, I didn't know Lizard had a heart, I thought it was all hole.

    I'm not sure she should have had married if losing her husband was going to damage her alleged heart. As I said previously, losing one can make you lose your mind but your heart has its own mind....

    Report message30

  • Message 31

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by cath (U2234232) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    >I thought she objected most strongly to the thought of having a cigarette lighter implanted under her skin<

    Yes, that's what I got from that scene too HCN and because she talked about an old fashioned cigarette lighter, I started imagining the effect one of my uncle's huge urn-shaped cigarette lighter would have if it were implanted under your collar bone, and wondering what sort of clothes you could buy to disguise the bulge (and how you would fill up with more lighter fuel when it runs out).

    But i did think DD was overly obsequious in his surely you do as you're told. Presumably she 's not at death's door (if only) so she has time to ask the right questions and understand what the implications are.

    Report message31

  • Message 32

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by Auntie Molly (U14110968) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    It's bugging me too. After she had the valve repair Lizzie's heart was completely forgotten about until sometime last year when Nigel suddenly started going on about Lizzie overdoing it.

    Report message32

  • Message 33

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    According to The Book of The Archers, "She was born with a hole in the heart and it wasn't until afetr two major operations and subsequent half-days only at primary school that she had anything like an ordinary childhood. But by then she was used to being the centre of attention: a place she was determined to keep."

    That book doesn't go up to the birth of the twins; that is in The Archers Encyclopaedia, in which it says that "The pregnancy wasn't easy, with bouts of breathlessness and palpitations indicating that her heart was having trouble coping with the strain" and then Elizabeth "postponed an operation to replace" (note, not "to repair") "a leaky valve in her heart" and "Greatly angered and upset when she couldn't persuade her parents to give her and her children a greater share in Brookfiled, she drove herself to the point where she had a cardiac arrest in January 2001."

    That is all I have in printed form, which is rapidly becoming the only information I trust any longer, given the state of the website.

    Report message33

  • Message 34

    , in reply to message 27.

    Posted by Flandersfield (U13224569) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    I agree with you, Nemo and Dickie. She's stressed out. And she's perfectly entitled to ask questions of the consultants and make her mind up by herself when she feel she has enough information. Clearly, she doesn't have enough information yet and why am I not surprised? I've come across a few of those medics in my time whose arrogance beggars belief.

    Report message34

  • Message 35

    , in reply to message 33.

    Posted by gingernut (U14737656) on Monday, 14th March 2011


    Quite a lot about Elizabeth's birth condition here.

    www.azande.demon.co....

    Report message35

  • Message 36

    , in reply to message 35.

    Posted by Lady Macbeϯh - not without mustard (U550479) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    I note it say *an* operation to widen the pulmonary valve.

    Sorry - the research is rubbish.

    Report message36

  • Message 37

    , in reply to message 36.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    Yep. And the sources we have stuff from are not consistent.

    The question is whether it used to be better but now has gone downhill, or whether it was always dodgy but now because we can compare notes so easily we notice more when they mess up continuity or facts.

    Report message37

  • Message 38

    , in reply to message 33.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    ' she drove herself to the point where she had a cardiac arrest'.
    Good grief can tantrums really give you a heart attack?

    I have a slightly leaking heart valve. Just as well I stopped being 'Furious'.

    This scenario is like the Victorian one where any stress immediately plunged a woman into premature labour! I believe we still do not know what triggers labour but I'm not sure being angry or shocked does it.
    It's a wonder Nigel's death or Lizard brush with it hasn't rushed Emma to the maternity ward.... although of course Helen's labour coincided with Nigel's demise.

    Report message38

  • Message 39

    , in reply to message 5.

    Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    *
    In reply to :

    Auntie Molly, I mind me of a friend of mine who became diabetic in her sixties and went along to a training class to learn how to inject herself with insulin. There was a girl in her early twenties there, who wouldn't listen to the instructor. "Oh, no, I couldn't bear to do that, I'd rather die! she cried.

    "Yes, dear, that is the option," said my friend mildly, looking at the girl over her spectacles. 


    Snork.

    Bit derivative though? From an interview "How does it feel to be old and frail?" got the reply "Very good when you consider the alternative"

    But I am amazed at the hostility to her thinking about it. I, as Jigjie suggests, would certainly want time to ponder if there was no need for immediate action.

    Report message39

  • Message 40

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by strokecitydave (U5467417) on Monday, 14th March 2011

    Jack had a pacemaker years ago?  


    Yes he did , and it lead to one of TA's most memorable lines (IMO). He was looking out of the ward window and Peggoi brought his old (pug?) dog to the car park outside, and when he saw him, he uttered the immortal words "Oooh it's Captain, my Captain".

    Jack doted on him- just like I do with Sparkles (that was the name they gave her), my rescue dog.

    Report message40

  • Message 41

    , in reply to message 40.

    Posted by Organoleptic Icon (U11219171) on Tuesday, 15th March 2011

    But where is Jack's Captain now?

    - "Fallen cold and dead"

    Report message41

  • Message 42

    , in reply to message 31.

    Posted by Rwth of the Cornovii (U2570790) on Tuesday, 15th March 2011

    I didn't know that being widowed gave you pain in your heart but it does. Elizabeth was probably only having a panic attack brought about by her own obstinacy. The answer is in her own hands. In spite of some denigrating remarks, Roy Tucker made a very good job of that conference at LL, didn't he. She should just offer him a trial secondment and see how he does. At least she knows him and has had experience of the work he does.

    Report message42

  • Message 43

    , in reply to message 18.

    Posted by Vicky S (U2258400) on Tuesday, 15th March 2011

    erstwhile hole in the heart, or is it a brand new one? 

    Sigh, if she does have a new hole, it's Nigel shaped and matches the one in the concrete on the front terrace.

    Report message43

  • Message 44

    , in reply to message 43.

    Posted by mrs trellis (U14533794) on Tuesday, 15th March 2011

    one of the children asked if the other people kept her awake snoring. 

    My hearing must be going - I thought she was asked 'Do they smell?'...

    Dopey insisting on her saying 'yes' was wonderful - trying not to have the guilt of bumping off two people.
    Mrs T

    Report message44

  • Message 45

    , in reply to message 44.

    Posted by Mild at heart (U14639665) on Tuesday, 15th March 2011

    It all just seems terribly melodramatic and rather questionable. My understanding is that chronic (i.e. longer that 2 months) emotional stress can contribute to heart disease (clogged arteries etc.), and that physical stress (exercise) usually reduces the risk; but Lizzie doesn't even have that kind of heart disease does she? It just seems over the top that seven days worth of managing LoLo on her own has induced the need for a heart procedure.

    (and my sympathies to those out there who have real experience of this and the wards etc.)

    Report message45

  • Message 46

    , in reply to message 6.

    Posted by pollyanna (U7304225) on Tuesday, 15th March 2011

    [The woman's bluddy mad. She doesn't like the idea of Lily and Freddie seeing if the device gives her an electric shock. They would get a bigger shock if she didn't have the device and then dropped down dead in front of them

    My own reaction exactly NSTT. Stupid, stupid, woman. My own pacemaker must have been doing overtime last night, I was so angry with her.

    I have a pacemaker exactly like hers. I would be dead, no question, without it. Every day I thank the NHS for what it has done for me. I feel genuinely angry that she is even contemplating ignoring the advice her doctors are giving her. .

    The procedure is straightforward. It should take no more than 45 minutes - mine took longer, I have funny veins -, but even so it was under local anaesthetic, I was walking round the ward half an hour later - no, more skipping with joy, having been so breathless before the procedure I could barely walk and went home the next morning, once X-rays have been taken to check all in place OK and heart monitored overnight. If anyone is in hospital for weeks afterwards, they must have other conditions that need dealing with..

    Sorry, too much information, I know, but this storyline has Got Personal for me now and I am furious that this we are being presented with this idiotic woman as if there is any real dilemma for her. What does Jill mean, she can't advice Lizzie? Of course she can, she can tell her to stop being so bluddy stupid. I would if she were my daughter.



    Report message46

  • Message 47

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by maggiesaes (U2771771) on Tuesday, 15th March 2011

    Well I'm sorry but this is the most ridiculous story line so far and I never beleived it could get worse!!
    What a ludicrous load of tripe.

    When that surgery was offered to me I almost snatched their hands off and more or less said 'I'm ready do it now!!!'

    Living where I do in Wales she wouldn't have had the opportunity these days,the ambulance wouldn't have arrived yet.

    For heavens sake let's move on out of this mire.

    Report message47

  • Message 48

    , in reply to message 38.

    Posted by antiquelemonsqeeze1 (U14259306) on Tuesday, 15th March 2011

    'Helen's labour coincided with Nigel's demise'. Helen didn't have a labour

    Report message48

  • Message 49

    , in reply to message 42.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Tuesday, 15th March 2011

    OH yes Ruth, I know about that pain in the heart. I have never been given a reason for it. However, I assume that it has a mostly psychological cause and does not actually manifest itself in actual physical damage of the heart. It is a dull, chronic ache rather than an acute one with dramatic symptoms like Lizzie's.

    As Lizzie has had extensive surgery and monitoring I would think her heart is now more likely to stand stress than those who have not.

    Report message49

  • Message 50

    , in reply to message 42.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Tuesday, 15th March 2011

    ....... but why on earth does Roy have to be the manager? He already has a managerial post. Bad enough that they all swap lovers. For heaven's sake let's have someone new.

    Report message50

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