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Blimey! Roy's got a vertebra!

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Messages: 1 - 50 of 77
  • Message 1. 

    Posted by Freda Fry (U12836683) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    I wonder if it might develop into a whole backbone...

    Report message1

  • Message 2

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    I think that he may be a worm.

    As in, turned.

    Maybe.

    Report message2

  • Message 3

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Redbookish (U1335018) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    Yes, Freda. I was cheering him on. And he was nice about Hayley! Coo, miracles never cease.

    Report message3

  • Message 4

    , in reply to message 3.

    Posted by Abby33 (U6428266) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    Finger's crossed that he can keep it up.

    Report message4

  • Message 5

    , in reply to message 4.

    Posted by Freda Fry (U12836683) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    < Finger's crossed that he can keep it up. > - message 4

    As Hayley whispers to herself every night...

    Report message5

  • Message 6

    , in reply to message 3.

    Posted by JacksParakeetBeingDe-Nested (U2979858) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    Mo re likely Roy was already exasperated by Lynda and, unusually, was already boiling enough to be able to take on Kate. Next time will - sadly - be different. Roy and Hayley need to play this long, as I've suggested elsethread, and not be ambushed by Kate's latest wheeze.

    jp

    Report message6

  • Message 7

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by Growly (U3949117) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    Kate's finally pushed him too far. He's taking Hayley's side for once, instead of just letting himself be whipped in submission. But can that spine stay straight?

    Report message7

  • Message 8

    , in reply to message 7.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    This particular trip was the idea of Phoebe not Kate.

    I don't understand Roy and Hayley. If I was Hayley I would have known that Phoebe had a mother who was going to be in her life and taken on my role as step-mum with that in mind. I would have acknowledged the natural mother's role and anticipated that Phoebe would want her to play a part in her life. It's not as if her Mum is dead. I would have been fully aware that I was not going to be the only mother figure in Phoebe's life.

    Phoebe could have the timne of her life in SA and Roay and Hayley hould take her pleasure into account.

    Report message8

  • Message 9

    , in reply to message 8.

    Posted by Fourteenbore (U2227836) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    Point is, these things should be discussed and agreed by all parties involved, not arranged by some, and sprung on others.

    Report message9

  • Message 10

    , in reply to message 8.

    Posted by Digitalis lividus et niger (U8605497) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    Speaking as a step-mum, I can identify with Hayley in every way. She's been far more accommodating than I should have been under these circumstances. Yes, she knew that Kate would be about, yes, she realised that Kate would be able to shower Phoebe with far more than she and Roy could do; having accepted all that, I feel that common courtesy, not to say common sense, would make Kate sensitive to what was actually /good/ for Phoebe. Yes, take her to South Africa, but for pity's sake, make sure that any arrangements meet with the agreement of those who ultimately have the day-to-day well-being of Phoebe at heart. And I do wonder what financial arrangements Kate had in mind? The deep pockets of her father? The plans should all have been made before Phoebe heard anything about it. I know it was all Phoebe's suggestion, but it's not beyond the wit of most adults to say "We'll see", now is it? After all, it was Kate's idea to kod off and leave her daughter in other hands.

    Dig

    Report message10

  • Message 11

    , in reply to message 10.

    Posted by NotsoTinyTim (U2256329) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    I certainly sympathised with Rotaboy. Kate just swans in and makes arrangements without consulting anyone. Doesn't that remind you of a certain Daddy Aldridge?

    My more conventional side wondered whether Roy should have been shouting so loudly at Kate (provoked tho' he was) in the lobby of Gay Gables, when the punters would have heard every word. Not very professional as well.

    Report message11

  • Message 12

    , in reply to message 11.

    Posted by My Mum is turning in her grave (U13137565) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    I think he was in his office

    Report message12

  • Message 13

    , in reply to message 10.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    I'm not sure whether Roy and particularly Hayley's attitude would be influenced by Kate asking them in advance.

    Many parents, the majority of them men, 'sod off '. They are not always and permanately penalised for this. Roy and Hayley's attitude now is just going to hurt Phoebe whether it is justified or not.

    I just think they should have been a little more prepared for this stuff.

    Report message13

  • Message 14

    , in reply to message 8.

    Posted by LilianFred (U14714921) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    I think Phoebe sounded like a really spoilt brat, the way she spoke to Hayley-- oh yes, of course, she's just like her "mother", isn't she? If I were Hayley I'd just let her go and tell Kate that any problems resulting from the trip will be down to her to sort out.

    Report message14

  • Message 15

    , in reply to message 7.

    Posted by Freda Fry (U12836683) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    < But can that spine stay straight? > - message 7

    Jury's still out, Growly. I won't be convinced until he pokes her in the snoot!

    Report message15

  • Message 16

    , in reply to message 13.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    I think that considering the minute amount of time Kate has been able to spare for Phoebe in the child's twelve years of life, Hayley might have been justified in thinking that Kate had gone off to live in another country with a husband andd other children and was not going to devote too much of her life to looking after her own eldest child.

    She had failed to take into account Kate's possessive streak, of course. Kate never wanted Phoebe's love nor made any effort to get or to deserve it, but oh boy she doesn't want anyone else to have it. Rather a jealous little madam, our Kate.

    Report message16

  • Message 17

    , in reply to message 8.

    Posted by Abby33 (U6428266) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    don't understand Roy and Hayley. If I was Hayley I would have known that Phoebe had a mother who was going to be in her life and taken on my role as step-mum with that in mind. I would have acknowledged the natural mother's role and anticipated that Phoebe would want her to play a part in her life  

    I can understand Roy and Hayley, they have had Phoebe for all her life and love and care for her so it must be very trying to have a self centred woman swan in, who hasn't the foggiest how to treat a child, and they have to accommodatre all her mad and harmful plans. They are not disputing that she needs a place in Phoebe's life, they just want to do it in a way that it suitable for Phoebe rather than Kate.

    Report message17

  • Message 18

    , in reply to message 16.

    Posted by sunnyakasonnycitizen (U14405687) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    I heart most of you on this threadxx BUT it is not all about Racist Roy of the Rotas, Anyone but my own child Hayley, or the trustafarian that is Katred, you should have done a better job of the wickering, you know who you are!

    It is about a almost teenage girl. It is about Phoebe and her feelings for her biological, "fun" hit and run mother and steady boring, but kind and loving Hayley. Plus Roy on the fence. I think Phoebe would maybe benefit from going to South Africa. Nothing much happens in year 8. She could go to school in South Africa for a week or something, it happens. Brian pays for everything else, Phoebe hasn't even had so much as a riding lesson of snooty Jenny.

    Phoebe will go and come back and probably still love Hayley. Hopefully Hayley cares for Phoebe 'cos she loves her. Phoebe owes not one of them anything imo!

    The scriptwriters really do not like kids except for The magikal baby cheesus and priggish pip.

    xxKatred may be a selfish person but Kellie Bright is one the best actors in the archers imo! Roy is just awful I loathe him. I think Phoebe's best bet is Hayley if only she can drag her away from the time warped Frilly twins. That is a sudden new friendship!! Year 8s and year 6s yes I so see that not!

    xxx

    Report message18

  • Message 19

    , in reply to message 1.

    Posted by carrick-bend (U2288869) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    He's a man, not a mouse.(or even a mousse)

    Did you hear how quickly she backed off and down when he stood his ground?
    Quite well-observed, I thought.

    Report message19

  • Message 20

    , in reply to message 16.

    This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the House Rules in some way.

  • Message 21

    , in reply to message 19.

    Posted by sunnyakasonnycitizen (U14405687) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    Sorry Roy is not someone I could ever admire.
    A racist. A mummy's boy, scrounged off his parents just as much as Kate. Managed to get half of his parents' house, where does that leave Brenda?

    Plus laughing at Jack. Yes Alzheimer's is soooooooo funny Roy!
    Yeah! Roy is a real bloke innit? He's a bear jus like Dave.

    He does not have a vertebra he is a spineless racist bully.

    Report message21

  • Message 22

    , in reply to message 20.

    Posted by sunnyakasonnycitizen (U14405687) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    Dear Freda and Dig if it makes you feel any better my mum loves her step-mother with alla her heart she considers her and my granny great her mothers. She considers her biological mother just that her biological mother. It is who loves you and cares for you and that is not always the natural parents.

    But Phoebe's character has to be allowed to find that out 'cos it is Phoebe that needs to know why Kate left her.

    Anyone who loves and cares for you is ok by me. Just don't think the scriptwriters like kids, children etc...

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Report message22

  • Message 23

    , in reply to message 22.

    Posted by Freda Fry (U12836683) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    I said:

    "Spot on, Chris. Also interesting to note that she is happy, indeed eager, to abandon her kids when they are little, (ie boring, and actually in need of one's care and attention), and pleased to take them up again when they are older, more self sufficient and interesting, (ie you can take them shopping).

    Hayley is her mother in all but biology, which, when it comes right down to it, counts for very little. I am a step dad. I inherited my two lovely kids aged 5 an 7. It was me who wiped their bottoms, cleaned up their vomit, fed them, clothed them and loved them. Their father is a violent and manipulative", (here I used a rude word, for which I imagine the post was catpeed), "(not to them but to their mother), and they seemed to understand this on some level even at that age. They are grown up now and on good terms with him, but on wonderful terms with me. Phoebe has some hard lessons to learn.

    Sorry to get all serious, I rarely reveal any personal details here, but I feel so sorry for Hayley, and if Roy manages to develop a spine it would be such a help to her."

    The word I used has been used before on several threads and not catpeed. The above is a paraphrase of my original, because I didn't save it.

    Report message23

  • Message 24

    , in reply to message 23.

    Posted by sunnyakasonnycitizen (U14405687) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    Well I read and responded to the original post Fredax Before it went: just like that.
    xgeorge smileyxxx

    Report message24

  • Message 25

    , in reply to message 18.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    Hello sakas! Long time no see. We must have been loitering in different threads.

    I think you are a little hard on Roy. I suppose you never made any mistakes when you were seventeen, though, and didn't then repent of them and try to make reparation...

    Do not forget that Kate at first denied that Roy was Phoebe's father and tried to leave the country with her daughter rather than have the baby corrupted by association with Roy (and not a=on account of his getting in with the racist gang at college, being terrified by their nastiness and giving evidence against them to the police, either) because of his being Not Really Her class Dahling.

    Then in a sudden volte-face next time she ran away from Ambridge in order to enjoy herself unimpeded by the awkwardness of a baby/toddler she had to look after, she utterly refused to consider leaving Phoebe with Brian and Jennifer, dumped her on Roy, and made him promise never to let Jennifer have anything to do with the child.

    I don't think Phoebe gets any child-support from Brian and Jennifer, and I am absolutely sure she gets none from Kate, so Roy is at least doing a fair job of responsibly providing food and shelter for his child, and has been since before Mike gave him and his young family more than half of Willow Farm.

    Report message25

  • Message 26

    , in reply to message 25.

    Posted by sunnyakasonnycitizen (U14405687) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    Hi Chrisxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    I have and will continue to make lots of mistakes. But being a racist is not a mistake I will ever make. End of!

    For you I know Emma and Katred have no saving graces.
    For me it is Roy and Hellin. Plus Roy's alzheimer's sneer at Jack was very recent.

    Phoebe is his daughter so I am sure he is happy to provide for her. He probably gets the appropriate child benefit and tax credits for her. I can't imagine he and St Hayley loving nanny to the Frillies, no time for my own long forgotten Abbie, earn muchxxx

    I can't believe Freda's post was cat peed!

    I really do like Kellie Bright she suits her name!


    Lovely evening to you Chrisxxx

    Report message26

  • Message 27

    , in reply to message 26.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Tuesday, 8th February 2011

    sakas, Roy's Alzheimer's jeer was an extraordinary lapse of memory on the part of the scriptwriter, I felt: Roy knew perfectly well about Jack, and had been wonderfully good with him a couple of months earlier when Jack had done much the same, turning up at Grey Gables in a confused state and requiring his office. It jarred considerably at the time; I may even have remarked it here. I can't remember whether I was signed up yet, but if I was it seems likely.

    As for the racism: it was something that a loner got into in an attempt to fit in with the crowd at college, and I'm very glad for you that you are so confident that you are too good a person to make a mistake so incredibly stupid, but I think that it would behoove you to show grace and forgive him his trespass, especially since [1] he did make efforts to make reparation for it, and had not himself done anything actively violent and [2] the person who was victimised as a result of his folly has both forgiven him and taken his side in a court battle. If Usha can find it in her heart not condemn him, I think maybe you ought not to either!

    The reason I see no saving graces in Kate or Emma is mostly that there don't seem to be any there to be seen.... (grin)


    Whether Roy is or is not happy to provide for his daughter with no help from her other parent (which I'm sure would be roundly condemned if it were a woman struggling to bring home the necessary money after a man had walked out and paid her zilch) does not alter the fact that he does it. Day after boring day, week after dull week, he does his job for his children, whilst Kate swans about "caring" for the orphans in Africa. And I am sure that child benefit is a drop in the ocean to the cost of a child... £20.30 per week really doesn't go all that far in the way of food, clothes, shoes, and transport to and from school! I don't think either that not having to pay so much (because he gets a tax credit) changes the fact that he has to pay for his daughter's day to day expenses, and Kate apparently does not.

    If he said, "Tell you what Kate: instead of spending a thousand quid buying Phoebe a holidy holiday for your own gratification, why don't you put a thousand quid into a savings bank for her to have when she needs it for college?" I think he would be justified.

    Report message27

  • Message 28

    , in reply to message 27.

    Posted by Freda Fry (U12836683) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    I said '5 and 7', but I meant '3 and 5'. Don't know why I'm bothering to post this but having done a bit of self revelation I want to be accurate. Just to complete the story, I married the kids mother and we divorced several years later, despite the fact that we'd lived together for some time many years before, (broke up, she had the kids, we got back together), now best of friends, I just can't do relationships, sob, where's that bottle, slurp, moan, drone...

    Report message28

  • Message 29

    , in reply to message 23.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    Freda. I am pleased you have a wonderful relationship with yopur step-children. However, step relationships vary a great deal. Many step-parents are simply tolerated. My OH's ex wife 'threw him' out for a boyfriend. The boyfriend lived with my OH's childlren for over 20 years. They did not forge any sort of relationbship with him and since their mother also left him have no contact with him. Their attitude towards him was coloured by his role on the 'banishment' of their father who they love very much. Although the step-father lkived with my OH's children he never ever replaced him. I also had a similar scenario. My children's sep-father cut my children off completely when he left.

    Hayley's role was not that of an adoptive mother. She knew there would always be a mother around who was not ever really indifferent and who was from a wealthy and powerful family. Hayley should have reserved a little of her head and heart for Kate's place in Phoebe's. If I had cared for someone elses child I would want them to have a good
    relationship withtheir natural parent.

    Report message29

  • Message 30

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by GreenBrownBear (U14258765) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011



    Well maybe. But when we love, we love and and often don't think of the consequences. And Hayleyy has loved Phoebe, ever since she was a baby.

    < If I had cared for someone elses child I would want them to have a good relationship withtheir natural parent.>

    No doubt Hayley does (or likes to think she does) but Kate doesn't make it easy. She patronises, ma and pa's wealth must sometimes feel like a threat to the Tuckers and I'm afraid there is always the sense that Kate is 'showing off' being the birth mother. Or as Peg's put it, 'when it suits'.

    Report message30

  • Message 31

    , in reply to message 29.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    If Kate had intervened in her daughter's life to a great extent over the years I am sure she would have been reviled for that. A woman who leaves a child can never ever win.

    Actually, Phoebe spoke to Hayley just like someone speaks to their mother. This indicates that she does see Hayley as her mother. At the moment she is simply polite to Kate. When she displays her 'teenage' (she isn't one yet is she) behaviour at her we will know her alliegance has truly shifted!

    Report message31

  • Message 32

    , in reply to message 31.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    If I had been in this particular scenario, I would have told myself that I was caring for someone else's child, not adopted a child for myself.

    Despite my OH's children's close proximity with a step-father for 20 years, they obviously did not see him as their father and it is now evident that he did not see them as his children.

    Report message32

  • Message 33

    , in reply to message 32.

    Posted by GreenBrownBear (U14258765) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011



    But that makes Hayley sound like the nanny! Which I sometimes feel is how Kate and the HF crowd see her. Roy as father is conveniently forgotten.

    Report message33

  • Message 34

    , in reply to message 27.

    Posted by Scarlett the Harlot (U14540168) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    Chris: I agree with your post about Roy wholeheartedly. Roy made a mistake when he was a teenager and should be forgiven for it.

    Gawd help us if the mistakes we made in our youth were held over us for the rest of our lives.

    I am really hearting Roy right now - when he told Kate where to get off I was shouting "go on my son" at the radio!

    Report message34

  • Message 35

    , in reply to message 34.

    Posted by Sallyruth (U14589711) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    Only got cross when Kate said he was mean, though.

    He seems perfectly happy to let her be unpleasant about his wife.
    He was VERY unpleasant about Jack Woolley.
    He has no management skills, and is rude to everyone except Caroline, who he toadies to.

    Report message35

  • Message 36

    , in reply to message 34.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    Do you forgive Kate her youthful mistake Scarlett? Or is it only blokes that are indulged?

    I am wondering how Hayley would have coped and what sort of relationship she would have had with Phoebe if Kate had been nearby and had a lot of access. Hayley would have had to emotionally accommodate that.

    Resentment just because Kate was not around is not a good basis for the future and needs to be jettisoned if any of them are to have a healthy relationship with Phoebe and each other. They surely need this for Phoebe's sake.

    Freda points out that his stepchildren have a good relationship with him and their natural father. Why can't Phoebe love both women?

    Report message36

  • Message 37

    , in reply to message 27.

    Posted by Auntie Molly (U14110968) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    As for the racism: it was something that a loner got into in an attempt to fit in with the crowd at college, and I'm very glad for you that you are so confident that you are too good a person to make a mistake so incredibly stupid, but I think that it would behoove you to show grace and forgive him his trespass, especially since [1] he did make efforts to make reparation for it, and had not himself done anything actively violent and [2] the person who was victimised as a result of his folly has both forgiven him and taken his side in a court battle. If Usha can find it in her heart not condemn him, I think maybe you ought not to either!
     


    Agreed.

    Report message37

  • Message 38

    , in reply to message 33.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    But.. GreenBrownBear. In what other way could this scenario have been handled? Kate has never legally relinquished her parentage of her daughter and has always been in the background as have her family. It is not like an adoptive scenario.

    If I got involved with someone who had custody of his child (god forbid!) but the child had a mother in the background, I would acknowledge her rights and involvement.

    I obviously expect too much from Hayley.

    Report message38

  • Message 39

    , in reply to message 36.

    Posted by Scarlett the Harlot (U14540168) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    Yes furiouslocki I do forgive Kate her youthful mistake. She had a baby and couldn't cope - fair enough.

    However, the way she has behaved since has been intolerable and truly appalling.

    If she visited Ambridge and was suitably appreciative to Roy and Hayley for bringing Phoebe up, offered to help financially, consulted them about taking Phoebe for days out/trips to South Africa etc. etc. that would be fine BUT instead she barges in MY daughter this, MY daughter that, being snide and nasty about Hayley, using Daddy's money to try and buy Phoebe's affection ....

    I could go on and on and on and on but I think you catch my drift ...

    Report message39

  • Message 40

    , in reply to message 34.

    Posted by JacksParakeetBeingDe-Nested (U2979858) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    I'm also prepared to forgive Roy his trespass for all the reasons in Chris's post, but not to forget as there is clearly a part of him that can contort itself into mouthing views he doesn't support deep down; this part may resurface if the SW archive is still being used.

    Roy now has a chance to consolidate his firmness to Kate, by building a bridge between K and K which is needed for Phoebe's sake. This will require care and backbone, and of course the latter has been debated in Freda's thread. An interesting SL and - for a change - one whose direction isn't bleedin' obvious.

    jp

    Report message40

  • Message 41

    , in reply to message 38.

    Posted by Now Locking for a house (U3261819) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    ........ and as it is mostly mothers who gain custody, if the father had it I would hazzard a guess that the mother had not been the best! However, I would not want to rule her out because of that.

    AuntieM. I think every word of your quote could be applied to Kate.

    Report message41

  • Message 42

    , in reply to message 41.

    Posted by Scarlett the Harlot (U14540168) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    Rollocks furiouslocki Kate has not mended her ways Roy has.

    Report message42

  • Message 43

    , in reply to message 42.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    Furious Scarlett, it is my view that Phoebe's Incubator has long since forfeited any right to consideration, let alone rights over Phoebe's life, and that her nastiness will cause Phoebe considerable hurt unless Phoebe turns out to be as nasty as her.

    locki is clearly (from what she tells us) a mother who genuinely cares about her children. I don't think that with locki feeling how she evidently does feel about her own children, it is reasonable to expect her to take on board the possibility that a mother may actually care not a jot about her children and only pick them up when it suits her -- this being Kate's position as far as you or I can see.

    I happen not to agree that however little a mother has ever done for the baby she bore, a mother is a mother is a mother and must be made allowance for. The nine-months' rental a mother is entitled to charge her offspring trumps all other considerations like nurture and care and understanding and being on the same continent. I feel that as a bad mother (and they simply do exist: it is a fact) deserves for her children to care as much *and* *as* *little* about her has she has ever done about them.

    This is in no way intended as an attack on locki -- I actually find her way of motherhood and posiition about it admirable -- it's an attempt to understand locki's position with regard to Kate having the right to use Phoebe for her own gratification at all times and regardless of Phoebe's father and mother. Though locki is nothing like Kate in her behaviour, she seems to feel a sympathy for the Ideal Of Mother which I feel Kate has never displayed, but which locki must see under the uncaring and casual attitude of Kate; I think that this Ideal Of Mother over-rides the practical observation that Kate is not now and never has been a mother to Phoebe, only a sort of rather distant aunt at best.

    Report message43

  • Message 44

    , in reply to message 43.

    Posted by Scarlett the Harlot (U14540168) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    Great post Mr Ghoti!

    I think furiouslocki sees the best in people and gives them the benefit of the doubt - both highly admirable traits IMO.

    I am afraid that I am a cynical old bat!

    Report message44

  • Message 45

    , in reply to message 43.

    Posted by Sallyruth (U14589711) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    Kate seems to be one of those women who do not like babies or toddlers ( she left Phoebe with Roy, who also did not much like babies, and passed her to Hayley, she left Nollie with Lucas's aunt, so that she could do a Princess Di and just give hugs to AIDS succeeded, she barely tolerated Sipho when she dragged him around Ambridge), but enjoys the company of impressionable teenagers.

    Report message45

  • Message 46

    , in reply to message 43.

    Posted by sunnyakasonnycitizen (U14405687) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    Morningxx

    I have just been soundly told off by a tutor for being arrogant, just because I have been offered a place somewhere prestigious.

    So I am licking my wounds on here before Economics.

    Chris you are of course mostly correct. Except the term now is " gestational carrier not incubus.

    What I would like to say is racist behaviour can be learned but sometimes to oppose it is just in you.

    Kate's idea of motherhood maybe patchy but Locki makes some good points. Locki is like a lot of Italian mammas.

    However because you are all older, and wiser, you seem to look at it from the adults' perspective. I see it through Phoebe's eyes.

    I think JP is right this could be a great storyline. Phoebe should not have to feel grateful for Hayley's love and care. True love is mostly unconditional. I don't think Kate's love for her children is unconditional but Phoebe has to find that out for herself. I feel for Phoebe more than Hayley and Roy. But I do find the Hayley is so wonderful with kids/children Mary Poppins scenario tedious. I think Hayley is joyless, unimaginative, rule bound and always sees why Phoebe can't do things as opposed as to why she can. She is such a: not for us kind of person. Kids like imaginative fun people. Katred appears to be that sort of person. Notice I used appears.

    Anyway have to go Economics beckons have a good day everyone.
    Still don't like Roy even if he has learnt not to be a racist!

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I feel a bit isolated fighting Phoebe's corner here.
    xxxxx

    Report message46

  • Message 47

    , in reply to message 46.

    Posted by Scarlett the Harlot (U14540168) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    Is it Oxford or Cambridge Sunny?

    Clever lad that you are!

    I don't think we have to worry about Phoebe she can clearly stand up for herself!

    Report message47

  • Message 48

    , in reply to message 35.

    Posted by Chris Ghoti (U10794176) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    Sallyruth, no; not fair nor strictly accurate. Roy lost his temper well before money was mentioned at all or Kate's comments about his worrying about money had been made.

    Kate barged in (she didn't have to go in to university yesterday morning) and effectively told his workmate Lynda to leave...

    +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
    K: I'm getting really fed up with Hayley calling me up and implying I'm a bad mother.

    R: Oh, and why do you think that is?

    K: Because I'm taking Phoebe on the trip of her life? Because I'm enriching her life with a new culture and new relationships?

    R: No, because you won't think things through before you make rash promises.

    K: Oh, Roy, I've had all this from Hayley.

    R: So what's so difficult about talking to us first? We could avoid all these traumas.

    K: Why don't you try thinking of Phoebe for a change?

    [and this is where Roy began to get angry]

    R: Meaning what exactly?

    K: Well, have you given a thought to what that girl's been through? You know how close she is to Freddie and Lily.

    R: Of course we know! We're the ones who've been picking up the pieces.

    K: Then I'd've thought you'd realise she needs something to look forward to. But oh, oh no, the only thing Hayley's worried about is 'upsetting school'.

    [and then Roy really lost it]

    R: I can't believe you're for real sometimes. Have you got any idea what Hayley's done for Freddie and Lily through all this? She's been absolutely fantastic with both of those children. She's helping see them through the worst time in their lives, so don't come in here telling me that all she cares about is Phoebe's school.
    +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+

    That sounded to me like a fervent and not strictly relevent outburst in defence of Hayley, and nothing to do with Roy being mean at all.

    I note also that his defence started with "we", not "I": he was identifying himself and Hayley as being a unit, the joint-person who had been helping get the twins through this dreadful time they are having. This may be taking Hayley's good deeds unto himself, but it certainly isn't dissociating himself from her.

    Report message48

  • Message 49

    , in reply to message 48.

    Posted by shesings (U2666459) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    I took the bit about picking up the pieces meaning that he and Hayley had both had to comfort Phoebe when she was distressed by the grief of the twins and had her own sadness over the loss of a known and kindly adult.

    Report message49

  • Message 50

    , in reply to message 49.

    Posted by Scarlett the Harlot (U14540168) on Wednesday, 9th February 2011

    Definitely shesings but also I think that Hayley in particular had been picking up the pieces in relation to helping Lizzie with Lily and Freddie's grief.

    She's a ruddy marvel that Hayley and Roy is lucky to have her as his wife (which I think he realises by the way).

    Report message50

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