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Message 1 - posted by VESTURIS
(U10660293)
, May 3, 2008
What were some of the most inspirational stories of Victoria Cross winners from it's inception?
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Message 2 - posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper
(U519668)
, May 3, 2008
Vesturis -
the account of "Smoky" Smith's action at the Savio River, Northern Italy in October 1944 when he was awarded the V.C...... on a Tank bustin patrol..his section came upon a Panther Tank - who fired it's M/c gun and wounded his N.C.O. -
"Smoky" grabbed the PIAT - fired and knocked out the Tank then killed a few of the accompnying PG's with his Thompsom M/c gun - another panther showed up - Smoky fired the Piat again - hit the Tank which reversed into a ditch - killed a few more PG's then the third Panther came along - took a look at the scene ..and retreated at speed. "Smoky" then carried his NCO to the RAP for treatment.
"Smoky" just died a couple of years ago aged 91 here in Vancouver.
He was a member of the "C" Company of the Seaforth Highlanders of Canada which we of the 145th regt RAC were supporting in Italy after Rome was liberated and he often stood on the back of my Churchill Tank into action at the Gothic Line until my tank was knocked out.
The ditched Panther was hauled out - cleaned up and presented to my "A" squadron 145th and we used this to great extent in pummeling the makers of same... then head office found out and declared it a NONO.....The Gunner was my old friend Walter Pollard from Yorkshire who died after stepping on a schu mine.. and is buried at Cesena Cemetery.
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Message 3 - posted by Scarboro
(U2806863)
, May 4, 2008
"Smokey" Smith was indeed a colorful character who wasn't afraid of much, including his own officers. I believe he was promoted to corporal 9 times, and demoted back to private 9 times. Also after he took his wounded buddy to an aid station he then returned to the battle zone to keep fighting.
Another interesting VC recipient is Robert Hampton Gray, a Canadian member of the Fleet Air Arm. In August 1945 he attacked a destroyer in Tokyo Bay. Wounded and on fire he continued the attack until he sunk the destroyer and then crashed into the bay.
The Japanese were so impressed that there is a memorial to his courage in Japan, the only such monument to a foreign enemy soldier on Japanese soil.
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Message 4 - posted by Mr Pedant
(U2464726)
, May 4, 2008
Regarding Smoky Smith,
I'm really surprised that a PIAT was any good against a tank as advanced as a Panther. I thought the PIAT was a poor weapon?
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Message 5 - posted by giraffe47
(U4048491)
, May 5, 2008
Depend how close you are willing to get!!!
I think a simple hand grenade down the turret would be 100% effective, but the problem might be getting volunteers to deliver it . . .
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Message 6 - posted by Steelers708
(U1831340)
**, May 5, 2008
Follow the link for a good article on 'Smokey' smith - www.vac-acc.gc.ca/ge...This is a reply to this message
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Message 7 - posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper
(U519668)
, May 5, 2008
Mr Pedant
If you will note the timing of that action by Smoky Smith as being October 44 that weapon had been improved after the orginals
had been having too many flash backs and killing the users. As someone else remarked it depends on how close you get ! Ten yards is very close to a Tank to be seen !
Of the 20 V.C.s awarded in the Italian Campaign only three I believe - went to users of the PIAT.
Interestingly In the Italian campaign - 11 British 6 Indian and 3 Canadians were recipients of the highest award with 8 being killed in their actions, from Casa Berardi in the south by another Canadian Capt. Triquot of the Vandoos to Smokys in the North. The V.Cs or the G.Cs were not just handed out with the rations
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Message 8 - posted by Tom Hreben (Ex Raybans13)
(U8719631)
, May 5, 2008
For me this has to come down to only a few, these heroes are:
Noel Chavasse VC and Bar,
Charles Hazlitt Upham VC and Bar,
Henry Cain VC,
Rambahadur Limbu VC,
And
Johnson Beharry VC.
For me these represent the most inspirational VC's that I have had the pleasure to read accounts of. I would have put the name of the third man to win a bar to his VC but at this moment it eludes me, any words from trooper Tom?
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Message 9 - posted by Nielsen
(U3014399)
, May 5, 2008
Re message 1,
I'd be a poor Dane if I forgot Anders Lassen VC, MC & Two Bars, who received the VC posthumously after a night raid in Northern Italy - in the wiki section there's a nice bit on him, including the citation from the London Gazette.
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Message 10 - posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper
(U519668)
, May 5, 2008
Raybans - a very good choice !
In my view - ALL V.C. holders are away above the common man - to read of their individual exploits leaves me with a sense of wonderment.
I only tell the story of "Smoky" Smith as I knew the man as he often rode on the back of my tank into action - last time I had the opportunity to meet him was in Chilliwack a few months before his death when he came to unveil the statue of another very young V.C.of the first war - Piper Richardson V.C. of Chillwack
In due course we shall no doubt have a statue to "Smoky" either in Vancouver or New Westminster as we shall have one for Beharry V.C.
somewhere in Britain - or his birthplace.
One of our Officers - Major Kempster was awarded the G.C. for throwing himself on a hand grenade thus saving the lives of four men - extraordinary courage.....
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Message 11 - posted by Steelers708
(U1831340)
**, May 5, 2008
The 3rd VC and Bar is:
Surgeon Captain Martin-Leake
Arthur Martin-Leake was born in Standen, Hertfordshire, on 4 April 1874. Surgeon Captain (later Lieutenant Colonel) Martin-Leake was a member of the South African Constabulary then Royal Army Medical Corps, attached to the 5th Field Ambulance.
On 8 February 1902, at Vlakfontein, South Africa, Surgeon Captain Martin-Leake went out into the firing line to dress a wounded man under very heavy enemy fire only 100 yards away. He then attended a badly wounded officer and while doing so was shot himself. He only gave up when thoroughly exhausted and then refused water until other wounded men had been served. This award was published in the London Gazette on 13 May 1902.
During the period 29 October to 8 November 1914 near Zonnebeke, Belgium, Lieutenant Martin-Leake showed most conspicuous bravery and devotion to duty in rescuing, whilst exposed to constant fire, a large number of the wounded who were lying close to the enemy's trenches. The bar to his second VC was published in the London Gazette on 18 February 1915.
During World War Two, Arthur Martin-Leake commanded a mobile ARP unit. Arthur Martin-Leake died in Ware, Hertfordshire, on 22 June 1953. He is buried in St. John's Church High Cross in Hertfordshire.
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Message 12 - posted by VESTURIS
(U10660293)
, May 5, 2008
I was always amazed by the story of 3 VC winners who grew up on Pine street in Winnipeg probably played hockey together. Their names were Clarke (somme), Hall (Ypres), Shankland (passchendale). Two were posthumous and after World war 1 the street was renamed to VALOUR road.
Every time we drive to the city and pass that street it reminds you of special the area was and
their sacrifice. What would the odds be for 3 VC's growing up blocks from each other?
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Message 13 - posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper
(U519668)
, May 5, 2008
Vesturis -
If they played Hockey together - then they didn't needs lessons in fighting ?
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Message 14 - posted by Triceratops
(U3420301)
, May 5, 2008
One of our Officers - Major Kempster was awarded the G.C. for throwing himself on a hand grenade thus saving the lives of four men - extraordinary courage.....Quoted from
this message
Billy MacFadzean was awarded a VC for doing the same at the Somme. Who decides that one action merits a VC while a similar action gets a GC?
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Message 15 - posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper
(U519668)
, May 5, 2008
Trke -
Army commander I guess - then War Office - then Monarch
Thing is that Major Kempster of "A" squadron of the 145th RAC was not facing the enemy as the fighting in North Africa was all over and we were training for the next fighting in Italy
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Message 16 - posted by Triceratops
(U3420301)
, May 5, 2008
Tom,
That would explain it. The VC being for valour in the face of the enemy.
Thanks, Trike.
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Message 17 - posted by Tom Hreben (Ex Raybans13)
(U8719631)
, May 5, 2008
Hi Trooper Tom,
Isn't a VC awared for acts of the utmost valour in the face of the enemy and the GC for the same but not in the face of the enemy?
On the note of Beharry, I have very fleetingly met the man! as well as reading his book, I believe that he came to Eastbourne College as his unit 1st Battallion the Princess Of Wales Royal Regiment is the sponsor unit of the schools cadet force but after reading his book and then listening to the man himself was quite incredible. luckily i had persuaded a few friends to leave house a little early so we got front row seats! i now have an autographed copy of his book sitting in pride of place somewhere in my bedroom. Beharry thoroughly deserves a statue but especially in Grenada, his home.
Raybans13
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Message 18 - posted by Triceratops
(U3420301)
, May 5, 2008
"In the face of the enemy" There's the story of Flying Officer Trigg, a New Zealander serving with Coastal Command.Trigg's VC was unusual because it was based on a recommendation by the captain of the U-boat he was fighting. en.wikipedia.org/wik...This is a reply to this message
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Message 19 - posted by Trooper Tom Canning - WW2 Site Helper
(U519668)
, May 5, 2008
Raybans as Trike states - the V.C. is awarded for 'valour in face of the enemy' - not UTMOST - and to all ranks
the GC & GM were instituted to be awarded to those not in face of the enemy but people like the engineers who were dealing with unexploded bombs etc
Things change and now we have the M.C. which was awarded to Officers only for gallantry being awarded to N.C.O's and -- shock horror - Other Ranks !
Cheers
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Message 20 - posted by stalteriisok
(U3212540)
, May 5, 2008
wasnt the gm and gc awarded to civilians ??
(ie malta GC)
the beauty of the vc was it was awarded to all ranks
to our eternal shame we (GB) used to award different medals to different ranks - military cross to officers - military medals to ors
dfc and dfm
and the medals are awarded by medal boards miles from the front
the us award medals on the battlefront
st
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